justrae83

I cant stop thinking well OBSESSING actually about the ex I lost to alchool and another women. Everyday i say "what could I have done?" I know now after reading these post, I CANT CURE IT, I DIDNT CAUSE IT and I CANT CHANGE IT. Sometimes deep down I wish i could have the type of man that would want to fight for me and get sober to be with me. I know it happens...i mean hell, my ex did it for 3 years before falling off the wagon. I know they relize what they lost...but why would my ex of 6 years after all this time, how come he didnt want to again? I mean, he would really ahve to change! But actions speak louder then words...which he has proven he can not produce.

What would it take for you to take back your ex? Mine would be, sober for a year, apology to my friends and family for the pain they cuased and his devoted love to me and no other. Sad to think thats asking for alot from him....sigh.

Thumper

There is nothing for me. The past is done. I can't have a partner relationship with someone when there is that much water under the bridge. There is simply nothing he can do, no amount of sober time or recovery, that would restore my trust and/or erase the past.

He could offer me and even show me the one thing I've always wanted. The one promise that held me tight for a very long time - and I would not go back.

EnglishGarden

So sorry, Justrae, that you are in such emotional pain and have that hurricane still roaring in your head. Many of us have lived that, as a result of losing a relationship with an addict.

To respectfully answer your question, for me to trust again the addict, in addition to the addict working a vigorous daily program of recovery (and for some addicts this means going to a meeting every day for the rest of his life in order to stay clean and sober), I would have to work a vigorous daily program of my own.

For me to trust again the addict, he would have to commit to long-term individual counseling to address his unconscious behaviors and distorted thinking and destructive patterns. I would have to do the same.

It is a two-way deal. We both have to be healthy.

Impurrfect

I'm with ((Thumper)) - though my last XABF is dead, I reached a point where I just knew I'd never trust him. Recently found out XABF#1 married one of the gf's he had when we were together (yeah, I tolerated it...extremely sick codie). It threw me for a loop I totally did not expect.

I sat down, wrote out a pros and cons list of what life was like with him, AFTER going through the "why wasn't *I* good enough to marry?" "what was wrong with ME?".

Bottom line, I feel sorry for the woman he's married. Living life, walking on eggshells, emotional/verbal abuse, etc. She can have him. I found out from a mutual friend who I've recently reconnected with...she and her husband work with XABF#1. I told her "thanks to the changes I've made in my life, realizing that *I* am the main focus of my life? He couldn't HANDLE the me I am today"

I didn't get to this point overnight, heck I've been in recovery for addiction (turned to drugs because I couldn't deal with life with him) and codie-ness for 5 years, but I have THREE XABF's and there's absolutely nothing in this world that would ever get me to take any of them back. I spent 20+ years with the first one..I can't get that back.

Oh, and when I mentioned to my friend that I no longer wanted to be with a man who needed "fixing"? She and her daughter cracked up laughing, said "trust us, he's not fixed yet" and we've been apart about 10 years? He just chose the better enabler.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

langkah

I guess if my life was threatened or the life of someone I loved would end if I didn't I'd go back, but I sure wouldn't want to in the least little bit.

My skin is crawling at the thought. It would be absolute hell. Again.

If she went to Alanon 4x a day at least she'd be out of my sight a lot, so it wouldn't be horrible 24/7, but the times she'd be around would cancel out any peaceful hours I might have.

This question is similar to 'what would it take for you to french kiss a rattlesnake?'.

EnglishGarden

I sure identify with the "NO WAY" posters, too. Years ago I was married to an A and when I was out, I was out and done. And the thought of being in the same room with him gives me chills. I live 3000 miles away now and thankfully do not have to worry about who might be standing behind me in the grocery checkout.

When I lived in Ohio, though, (where AA was founded, actually--less than a mile from the house I lived in then), I attended one of the best Al-Anon groups ever.

In that group were strong, mature women who had faced their husband's alcoholism and had worked their own programs while their husbands worked theirs in AA. And those marriages were SUCCESSFUL.

I think of them now, and realize that that is the image I have of the promises of recovery. (One of the husbands was a pilot with United, by the way, and thank God that man got sober). The image of those couples living strong independent programs of recovery.

They had gone through terrible painful times of separation, family disintegration, upset children. But through the programs of AA and Al-Anon and rigorous, ongoing counseling, they had marriages which were stronger than many I have witnessed among normies.

What many partners of addicts do not get is that we, the partners, are also in need of some serious help. Many partners of addicts sit back and say that the addict has to do this and that and such to win back her good graces. All the while, she is a psychological train wreck.

Recovery couples are few and far between, in my experience. But I am happy to say that I have not just read about them. At one time in my life, I actually knew some of them.

dollydo

The HP could be standing right in front of me and say "Either take exabf back or you may
go to hell in the hereafter, what is your choice?"....Simple, I'll bet on the come, there, to me, is no greater hell than living with an active addict...in taking him back I would continue to be where I was...living in hell on earth.

Thank you very much....I'll pass.

lillamy

There's a movie out right now about a woman who gets amnesia and can't remember her husband.
I think even if I got a solid whack on the head and got a brain injury that caused serious amnesia, every cell in my body would remember the hell it was to be married to an addict.

So no. Nothing. There's nothing in this universe that would make me take my AXH back. Ever. Remarry him or die? I'd rather die.

choublak

Such a man (or woman) doesn't exist. One doesn't get sober to be with someone else. It is 100% about the inner self. He tried to be sober for you, but eventually, it didn't work, because getting and staying sober never works if done for someone else.

Thelma

My XAH has been sober for over 20 years. He works his program every day and has found both love in peace in this new lifestyle. We keep in touch though not regularly.I'm not still in love with him but to be honest if the person he is today is the person I married all those years ago I would still be with him. But to take him back would un-validate all the reasons I left in the first place. I wish him the best and am glad he has gotten sober but I would not even consider taking him back.

naive

interesting question, thanks for the opportunity to consider it.

the answer, for me, is no. it appears to me that my xABF is simply not capable of a loving, giving, caring relationship in this lifetime. remove the alcohol, and he remains wholly service to himself. he uses people to fill his needs, sober or not. his life pursuit is having his sensual desires met, beit money, sex, alcohol or his ego.

i, on the other hand, actually care about people. i can't say that i like everyone i meet, but i do wish them the best. i am not friends with people for what i can get from them, rather, i am friends with people because of shared interests, common goals. i believe that together, we can support each other and become better people.

xABF is not interested at all in becoming a better person at this stage of his life. perhaps he never will be. it's his journey and it will be in his own time. he would have to essentially become a whole different person through a lot of recovery work. it would be the work of a lifetime and require a level of self-honesty foreign to him.

in conclusion, i am not seeking a physical relationship with anyone at this time. perhaps the universe will surprise me and i'm open to that, but the person would have to be truly exceptional, with all of their baggage reconciled long before they met me, because they would have already walked the path of self-discovery and truth.

and my overall feeling is that if i did meet such a person, the relationship would be plutonic. i have met such noble men before and have walked this path with them together, and those relationships never turned sexual because neither of us were operating at that level, it wasn't the basis of the partnership. we loved each other, supported each other, cried together, travelled together, comforted each other, faced daunting tasks together. they were the man and i was the woman and there existed mutual respect which never crossed any physical lines. because it wasn't necessary and it wasn't the basis of our friendship.

with sexual partners, it's different for me. it is the result of a physical attraction (eros) and not necessarily a common goal that we are working towards together.

but i have discovered in my life, that eros wears off after awhile. and then, you are just two people, without a common goal, trying to live together. and then all those societal roles rear up...you are the woman...you take care of the children and the house...man will go (hopefully) to provide and protect.

in the plutonic relationships i have had, yes he is still a man and i am still a woman, but the relationship is much freer...much more flexible...and both of us are free to explore both our ying and our yang, our feminine side and our male side (as both exist in each of us)...these relationships are much more fullfilling because neither of us wants anything from the other except to support reaching our true potential as human beings, in service to HP.

while of course i am also a sexual person, that is something that i can easily manage. as a woman, engaging in sexual relations comes at a high price...too high for me right now...i have to harm my body by taking unnatural hormones to suppress pregnancy, or i have to have a baby (which i don't want right now) or i have to risk an abortion or sexually transmitted disease.

for what? 10 minutes of feeling good? it doesn't seem worth it to me anymore. and then i have a man who feels i am HIS woman and in my experience, begins to try to limit my freedoms. i've had men jealous of even a girlfriend who occupies my time. i've had men who are upset if i am innocently friendly with other men. i've had men pester me for sex when i'm not interested or tired. i've had men who think i am to do all the housework. i've had men who have one standard for themselves and another for me. i've had men want me to dress overtly sexually and i've had men who want me to cover up, etc.

i really feel finished with all that. the price of sex is too high, unless one wants to have a family. too entangling on too many levels. i benefit more from my plutonic male friends, who are protective, loving and supportive without restricting me. they just like me for who i am, without any other personal agenda.

thanks again for the opportunity to explore this idea, justrae.
naive

LifeRecovery

I have been pondering this post since yesterday.

First I have to say that I don't think anyone can work their recovery just for someone else....it might work for awhile but if they are not attached to it I feel the chance of backslide is higher. For me the type of addiction that encompasses does not matter. When I felt like his sobriety was a testament to me my codependent streak came out loud and clear.

I truly don't think getting back with my qualifier is an option. I feel strongly that I needed him in my life for growth, and have gotten as much growth as I possibly can from that situation (together) and am working on it apart now. My job is to learn how to keep the focus on me of living and loving someone with an alcohol problem and someone who choose to have an affair.

For the idea to even be entertained in my head though I would have to say that my loved one would have to care enough about himself, and find himself worthwhile enough to have a regular program of recovery. I don't know what that would look like for him, and I could not dictate to him what it would be. I would know it when I saw it though, and it would have to be something that he had without me in his life for a period of time....and that he maintained it regardless of the others in his life, including and especially a romantic/physical loved one. He would also have to be able to accept and not be chronically challenged by the recovery program I choose to work.

There would need to be a level of consistency of action, on both sides. Words and actions would not have to match 100% of the time, but there was little connection for both previously.

Finally we would have to be capable of sharing. It would not have to be everything, but when alcohol was introduced significantly into my relationship a lot of communication became unavailable. We would both need to be able to express ourselves in a safe, secure environment, or at least be willing to be actively working on that (to start with). That is not to say that it would not get messy at times. Could I though "Say what I mean, mean what I say, and not say it mean" and vice versa? This is something I am striving for in all my relationships for both parties involved.

Luweez

Sadly at this moment all it would take is an "I love you and I'm sorry". - even tho I know deep down that's not what is best for me.

Linkmeister

This thought permeated my head for a very long time after I ended my relationship with my EXABF.

I kept asking myself-what would he have to do? I came up with a laundry list of things-apologies to me for the many hurtful things he said to me, committing to a program of long-term recovery, of sobriety, going to counseling to address the childhood issues that haunt him, and to regain the trust I lost in him for all of the broken promises he made to me to get sober. He would have to want to get sober for himself, for his well-being, not for me, or anyone else.

We have been apart for close to a year and during that time, this thought has gone through my head so many times. Each and every time it does, I ask myself if I am better off now living alone as opposed to being alone when we were together.

What I have now, a better understanding of myself, what led me down this road to a relationship with an addict and knowing the warning signs if I ever start down that road again. Meeting up with his ex, the mother of his grown children, hearing their struggles, the same struggles I had contributed to my decision.

Seeing him trolling dating sites within 2 weeks of our breakup, marketing himself as "single for three years, and ready for love" (friends of mine saw him on there and told me this), having a secret "Facebook page" with all women friends, things like this told me that the more things change, the more they remain the same.

The stability of Al-Anon meetings, readings, SR postings have helped me work through this, the challenges I have faced by myself since the split, all contributed to the fact that I knew I couldn't resume a relationship with my ex, in spite of the fact that I still love him.

The final kicker for me was seeing him yesterday in the grocery store, seeing how sick he looks, how sad he looks, dressed shabbily, eyes looking away from me as we exchanged a few words. The smell of stale alcohol was pretty strong.

This time, instead of lingering, or going for coffee, I found it easy to walk away and finish my shopping. I knew I had made the right decision and am pretty comfortable with it. For me, that's a sign of how far I have come, while he seems to be stuck in neutral.

mattmathews

I've been married for nearly 30 years to an alcoholic who has been in recovery for 2 years. The first 15 years of the marriage very good. The next 10 were increasingly miserable, the 5 years before rehab were a version of hell. Since rehab, we've both been working our separate recoveries, and on multiple levels the last two years have been an amazing journey. But...
Fairly early in my recovery I had to ask myself: "Why did I do it? Why did I put up with so much misery for all those years? Why did I hang in there?" I'm not sure that even today I completely understand the answer to that question. It's possible that if the alcoholic in my life had left me, my questions would have been "Why? Why did she leave me? Why did she love the bottle more than me?" But I would have been asking those questions without the benefit of a recovery program. So there's that.
Here are some things I've learned: My wife is not responsible for my happiness, and more importantly, (for the codependents among us), I am not responsible for my wife's happiness. My wife does not "complete me," I'm perfectly fine all by myself. Love, especially romantic love, is highly overrated...it's mostly brain chemicals. I can be alone without being "lonely." Every moment of every day is exactly as God meant it to be...figure that one out and you've discovered the secret to true happiness. And most of the time? It's not about me.

Jennifer124

justrae, I used to think that his effort to change is directly linked to how much he loves me. I have to accept that he has a lover (alcohol/weed/partying), and I need to move on. I can not compete unless he wants to choose me, but he wants both.
You deserve someone who puts YOU first, does not make you feel bad, wants to do things with you, would never think of hurting you. Like you said, you cannot cure it change it, and did not cause it. It hurts now (for me too, for all of us), but keep reading the posts of the people who stayed in their relationship, married, had children. It is so much harder to leave, and they regret not leaving earlier and LIVING LIFE TO THE FULLEST!!! Which we can't do with an alcoholic partner. I can't, he does not want to do anything but drink at the bar or at parties. Teenage stuff, can't have friends having fun without him....!!!!!

NYCDoglvr

Nothing. Never! I don't want to go back to being the person I was. At this point he's irrelevant aside from being a manifestation of my sickness. The best thing I can say is that I'd never be attracted to him now.

Marytherboo

I have an evolving list of what I might look for in a potential partner before I began a relationship. Right now AH fits exactly zero of those criteria. If that changes, I'd consider it. Odds of him ever making those changes? Slim to none, but I'm open to miracles.

In any case, no relationship is going to be happy and healthy for me until I am much further along in my own recovery. Plenty of time to cross that bridge when and if I ever come to it.

wicked

Want to what again?
You think he fought his alcoholism every day to be with you?

Any man or woman who gets sober for someone else or something else, it NEVER holds.
Yes, I said, never.
Why? Resentments. they start small, and and could move slowly, like a glacier, or quickly like an avalanche. Pretty soon, recovery looks hard and keeping up the "front" of being happy with someone you believe you gave up your "life" (alcohol) for is getting hard.
"Why did I quit again? Oh yeah, so I could live with miss perfect here, who watches my every move and doesn't trust me."

Beth

Justrae,
Just out of my own curiosity did you come back to read the replies?
What do you think?
I posted mine and then read everyone's fabulous posts.
Thank you all
:ghug3

MsGrace

Naive said it well:

"the answer, for me, is no. it appears to me that my xABF is simply not capable of a loving, giving, caring relationship in this lifetime. remove the alcohol, and he remains wholly service to himself. he uses people to fill his needs, sober or not. his life pursuit is having his sensual desires met, beit money, sex, alcohol or his ego.

i, on the other hand, actually care about people. i can't say that i like everyone i meet, but i do wish them the best. i am not friends with people for what i can get from them, rather, i am friends with people because of shared interests, common goals. i believe that together, we can support each other and become better people.

xABF is not interested at all in becoming a better person at this stage of his life. perhaps he never will be. it's his journey and it will be in his own time. he would have to essentially become a whole different person through a lot of recovery work. it would be the work of a lifetime and require a level of self-honesty foreign to him."

The total relapse of my AH revealed who he really is....and it wasn't the person I thought I married. I learned that he never ever took recovery work seriously, and for a time, was highly skilled just presenting to the world a person who was kind, responsible, loving. How very, very quickly that all fell away when the drinking started again, revealing the person he really is. There isn't one shred of desire in him to tackle recovery...that's all I need to know.

There isn't any circumstance on earth that would make me go back. I can only go forward, and live my life in the most productive way possible.