matilda17

Hi everyone --

I frequently read these threads and have posted once or twice -- thanks to all for the time and attention you give here.

I'm dealing with what I believe to be an ABF, and I'm starting to act a little wonky, I know, when we go to parties and social events. I am in another 12-step program and know that I might pay Alanon a visit for my own good here -- no problem with that plan.

Meanwhile, I wonder if any of you might share your experiences dealing with an A who acts socially embarrassing at times. I know I could just avoid certain settings with him, which may be the way to go, because I have made things worse in the past by getting freaked out by his behavior in public instead of saving it for when we got home (I don't have much of a poker face). I'm afraid our social circles are shrinking as a result, which is part of the reason I realize I may need to move on instead of sticking in there and hoping he'll want recovery anytime soon.

Any advice very welcome. Thanks.

M

LifeRecovery

I actually stopped attending events that I had a risk of becoming crazy at with him.

Actually first I stopped being willing to go in the same vehicle, so I always had a way out, then I stopped going all together.

In the short run it prevented a lot of problems. I experienced a closing of the cirlce of friends also and in the long-run we did not do a lot together. It helped me to not feel anxious though, and to not be the one who looked like the crazy one.

Willybluedog

Matilda,

Glad you are here, there are a couple things I would recommend if you decide to stick this out for awhile.

1) Set clear boundaries on tolerable behavior and stick to them.

2) Always take your own car or have another way home.

3) Decide what you can and cannot tolerate, obviously you are thinking about leaving and maybe that is for the best.

matilda17

Wow, thank you -- this really helps. I feel sheepish about how I've been triggered at recent parties, etc., in one instance when I myself had had a couple drinks and lowered inhibitions. I drink very infrequently around him but happened to choose a night when I thought I would have fun at a dance party with a bunch of mutual friends and ended up acting jealous and moody in spite of myself and ultimately leading us to leave the party early.

But that was not the only time and was one of several, the vast majority of which have happened in fully sober situations (for me). I think my concerns have built up over time to the point where I can be disproportionately touchy from seemingly small incidents -- I seem to be overreacting to some off-color comment he might have made, for example, and he comes away feeling like I'm hypersensitive and judgmental (i.e., I should know him better than to think that such an offhand comment should be taken so seriously, etc.).

How to set boundaries with this? Doing the "when you ______ (act pompous, say something mean-spirited that you mistakenly think is funny), I feel ______ ?" I have a hard time not sounding judgmental and petty in these moments, because I'm ashamed and fired up, but he can act superior and off-putting at times and it puts me off by extension. Other times he is very sweet and genteel, so it's hard to call when it's going to happen.

Again, I'm not opposed to Alanon and/or leaving -- I'm just trying to set some boundaries in the meantime in case anything can improve. If I don't express that it bothers me, I can't expect him to know, and it doesn't work for me to blow up and then try to explain myself calmly afterward and expect him to be receptive.

I do love the guy and this is really hard. Fell for him without meaning to, and there've been enough good qualities to make it worth it, at least in the short-run. I don't entirely trust my own judgment about the long-term, so I'm attempting to put those larger questions on hold for 6 months or more and get into Alanon, etc. to figure out whether or not to leave him and when.

LifeRecovery

Boundaries remain challenging for me so I am sure someone will be along soon with a better understanding of them. The part I do get now that I did not before was boundaries are for me. They have nothing to do with another person, and their behavior. For me one would sound like "I will feel better if I take my own vehicle and meet you at.....

Secondly I see a big difference between leaving and Alanon. Alanon has helped me with boundaries and honestly to feel "normalized." I did not have a good handle on what addiction looked like until I got myself there....then I hear myself in so many of the stories. For me Alanon is a stepping stone to the rest of my life....similar to SR.

matilda17

Thanks, LR -- so what does addiction look like? I'm mostly kidding -- I know that's a big question that I'll have to find out for myself. And I have dabbled in Alanon enough to have some sense of what you mean about feeling normalized. I did need the reminder that boundaries have nothing to do with the other person. Good stuff.

Cyranoak

I did two things. One, I stopped allowing her to accompany me to social events. Two, when she did I stopped protecting her or trying to control her behavior in any way, shape, or form.

I've got a lot of good stories around this one, but I think my favorite was a funeral where her butt was hanging out of her pants for all to see. It probably wasn't fair to the family of the departed, but she got to fully experience the consequences of her behavior, and the rest of the family got a good story out of it.

Oddly, by that time I was so hardened to all this ******** I wasn't ashamed at all. In fact, and this irritated the hell out of my sisters, I laughed like hell. I often laugh when I want to cry-- another gift from alcoholism, the gift that keeps on giving.

Cyranoak

P.s. For awhile I stopped attending events until I realized I was paying the price for her drinking. That's when I started going where I wanted when I wanted and not allowing her to accompany me (usually by not telling her about them, but often by simply leaving when it was time to leave. She was usually too drunk to figure it out, and usually to drunk to remember she'd missed something. It took her ******* up several weddings before I shut her out.

matilda17

Thanks, Cyranoak. Helps so much to hear these stories. I think I need to work on detachment, yes, especially when it comes to protecting him, as my own pride and ego are caught up in appearances to a humbling extent in all this.

For starters, I will pick and choose social events carefully and work on letting him experience his own consequences. I feel as though what I'm looking at is an almost certain road to splitsville but am not certain or strong enough yet to draw that line. Just trying not to make things more difficult for me or for him in the meantime. I realize I've enabled him at times without meaning to out of a sense of keeping up appearances for my own sake -- trying not to be too hard on myself for having done so.

Willybluedog

Matilda,

It should be no more complicated than this:

The first slurred word, I leave.

The first time you get loud, mouthy, agressive, I leave.

The first time you show you a$$, grope someone, spill a drink, etc. I leave.

Make a list of the things that have triggered you in the past, and start from there, ask your friends, what made them cringe, what made them start to dump you from guest lists, get a list made up and sit him down, set the boundaries and stick to them like they are the iron curtain, first time you give in you have lost.

matilda17

Thanks, Willybluedog -- to clarify, when you say "I leave," that means I leave the social situation, correct?

Thing is, most of the embarrassing situations have been subtle enough -- he hasn't swung from any chandeliers or gotten in brawls, etc. as of yet -- that they've mostly only bothered me. Others see him as a bon vivant, is my impression, and some in our social circles may get that he goes overboard on drinking but many of them do, too, and then some.

So there isn't a lot of obvious shunning or clear consequences, and when I've tried to bring these situations up it sounds too vague, like "I had the general sense that you were already a bit lit when you came home with your 'one beer,'" etc. I end up sounding hypercritical and paranoid in those cases, and he just starts avoiding me more, so the whole exercise doesn't seem fruitful how I've done it.

So the setting-boundaries thing is for me, mainly -- perhaps I'll wait until I can point to something more concrete and start with that.

marie1960

I made a very simple conscientious decision.........

I stopped being the babysitter.

Babysitters are for children, not adult men.

matilda17

Heh. True, Marie. I'll keep that image in mind from now on. Thank you.

On the plus side, this is showing me how dependent I am on others' opinions, or what I perceive them to be. I logically get that their opinions of me (or him) are none of my business, but emotionally is another story.

matilda17

Good question, anvilhead, thank you.

Not every situation involves alcohol, no. I would say he has an arrogant/grandiose streak that was cultivated partly in his family of origin -- a divisive way of looking at the world and at other people along us-vs.-them lines. Both his parents were refugees and brutally persecuted in WWII. He can cut others down to build himself up at times and at others acts pompous.

That, plus perhaps a certain immaturity that might come from the arrested development aspect of addiction (if in fact he is addicted), can cause me embarrassment. He also has very generous and funny and sweet sides, too -- he's a mix of different personality traits, many of which do challenge me and make me wonder if I can handle this and wonder how much of it is due to the drinking, or whether that matters one bit. I don't expect to change him, though.

I should say that I am also an addict (long-standing eating disorder). I'm in recovery and am very aware of my own inner teenager! I'm taking his inventory, as it were, for the sake of answering the question.

silkspin

Before I realized he had booze issues everything was ok - all of us took it too far once in a while. Then I was in your shoes, he was usually the drunkest - nothing too overt but I was hypersensitive to is. Bottom line is, doesn't matter what the behaviour is, subtle or not, if it bothers you, then it bothers you. It's ok.

I heard something once that really helped - another person's poor behaviour is NOT a reflection on you. I didn't really believe it at first. I am married to this guy, so of course it's a reflection, no? I'm the wifey putting up with the drunk fool, people shaking their heads and thinking that poor girl, she's gotta get that loser home....again.

But it's true. I am married to the guy, but he is an adult and responsible for his own behaviour. I can love him and not condone his behaviour; they are not mutually exclusive. I stopped paying attention while out, eventually not really wanting to be out with him.

matilda17

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I go back and forth on this, as even though we've been dating almost 2 years now, I (from my own trust issues, etc.) had kept the tone of the relationship on a somewhat formal level -- seeing each other one day or two over the weekends and a day or two during the week -- until about 4 months ago, when I started opening up more and so did he. He has moved things along almost singlehandedly the whole way through.

I mention this because it has impacted the level of intimacy we have, including knowing what the other person is really about. I've given myself 6 months here to suss things out one way or the other and move on if necessary. (I will move on before then if necessary, too, that's just the upper limit.)

But from where I sit right now, I'd say that I love him dearly but may not be able to handle his particular blend of herbs and spices (figuratively speaking) in the long-run, based on what I want. I'll be 38 in June, and although I don't want children, I don't think, I would like to find someone eventually who really works for me as a partner. Trying not to put too much pressure on the situation now so I can evaluate it for what it is in the meantime.

matilda17

Thanks so much, silkspin. I've heard that said too and also have a hard time really taking it in. However, i have female friends whose S.O.s or spouses I wasn't crazy about (and some male ones, come to think of it), and I never saw it as a big reflection on them as such -- attraction is a mysterious thing. I also remind myself that most of the time, people are wrapped up in their own worries and concerns, so what they might think of me and/or my BF is not exactly of paramount importance to them either.

matilda17

Thanks, anvilhead -- I nearly cried when I read your last post. Really needed that perspective. I have been stressing a great deal about the relentless march of time and giving myself a hard time for sticking with my current relationship even this long knowing that I was in my late '30s.

Problem with the time-is-running-out mode of thinking about this stuff is that it presumes that I'm in control of when love happens -- i.e., if I weren't with my BF at this moment, I would be magically encountering the right one for me, now, today, and because I'm with BF at this moment, I'm missing the boat and will thus eventually be alone ... forever! (music swells)

I also know that, in the likely case that this ends up not working for me, I will probably do well to be on my own for a while, examining why I have repeatedly ended up in long-term relationships after thinking, "oh, I'll just go on a few dates with this guy; obviously it can't work because of x, y and z." Hello Alanon, hello yet another period of being alone.

I'm also somewhat ashamed to admit that in this current case, I have a hard time walking partly because he is essentially my physical ideal. He is tall, dark and drop-dead gorgeous, objectively speaking. I know that that ceases to matter with addiction in the picture, if that's what I'm dealing with -- a hot guy wetting the bed or drinking himself into toothlessness and an early grave is not attractive by any stretch, but let's say that for now it still makes it all a bit tough.

Willybluedog

Matilda,

Yes leave the situation that is causing you stress.

What you do with the relationship is another matter.

Best of luck to you,

Bill

matilda17

Got it. Thanks, Bill -- helps a lot. I'll need to practice this skill.

M

matilda17

He's far from perfect (as am I), but he has his very strong qualities. If his darker side doesn't get the best of him, he can really be a sweet and hilarious and talented person, yes. I know there's nothing I can do about which part of him dominates ultimately and I know from the inside out how hard addictions can be.

Didn't expect that we'd make it this far and frankly thought it'd shake out more clearly by now, so I'm trying not to force the issue but do want to experience certain things in my life -- a good marriage, for one -- if possible.