Teach me
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 119
Teach me
I'm so confused.
I don't know what to say to my A. I know about detaching, which I think I've done pretty well with, lastnight I had an "episode" but normally I do pretty good with it.
But what confuses me is what do we say to our A? I read on here not to nag, or guilt or whatever.....But I feel like sometimes if I don't say anything I'm not being true to myself.
He has cut back, he's on the verge of going to AA and getting on Anti-abuse. He's SO close....But yesterday he went to a bar. I was FURIOUS. While at the bar he told me that today he was going to go to his Aunts and get some Anti-abuse. Now this morning he says he's not going to do anything today, may clean but that's it. So I asked him what about going to his aunts? And when I asked it I thought I probably shouldn't. But I just couldn't not say something...........ARRRRRRRRR!
How do we let them know how we're feeling without making them feel guilty? Impossible. How do I not be disappointed? I guess I still have alot of work to do on me.
I don't know what to say to my A. I know about detaching, which I think I've done pretty well with, lastnight I had an "episode" but normally I do pretty good with it.
But what confuses me is what do we say to our A? I read on here not to nag, or guilt or whatever.....But I feel like sometimes if I don't say anything I'm not being true to myself.
He has cut back, he's on the verge of going to AA and getting on Anti-abuse. He's SO close....But yesterday he went to a bar. I was FURIOUS. While at the bar he told me that today he was going to go to his Aunts and get some Anti-abuse. Now this morning he says he's not going to do anything today, may clean but that's it. So I asked him what about going to his aunts? And when I asked it I thought I probably shouldn't. But I just couldn't not say something...........ARRRRRRRRR!
How do we let them know how we're feeling without making them feel guilty? Impossible. How do I not be disappointed? I guess I still have alot of work to do on me.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Originally Posted by womaninprogress 
He has cut back, he's on the verge of going to AA and getting on Anti-abuse. He's SO close....But yesterday he went to a bar. I was FURIOUS. While at the bar he told me that today he was going to go to his Aunts and get some Anti-abuse.
I also see, from the outsider's perspective, that you're entirely focused on him, what he does, what he says. What about YOU?? Part of detaching is realizing that he's going to do what he's going to do, no matter what, because he's an alcoholic and that's what alcoholics active in their addictions do.
Originally Posted by womaninprogress
How do we let them know how we're feeling without making them feel guilty? Impossible. How do I not be disappointed?
So let's refocus here: how are YOU today?
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,349
Great post from NoDay...you are focusing on him! It's OK to confront him, by the way, but if you have something to say do this: Say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean. When I apply this, I find that I have to think about how I'm going to present my case, so to speak. Also, if you choose to confront, do it when they are sober. Have you read Toby Rice Drews book called "Getting them Sober"? It really helped me gain some perspective on how to handle an active A in my home.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
I am curious as to why you need to say anything to him about his drinking/recovery? Those are his choices. I don't believe you would be happy if he was giving you advice on how to work your recovery. Remember,
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.
I found what worked best for me was to turn my effort towards my recovery. That is the only thing I have any control over.
Your friend,
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.
I found what worked best for me was to turn my effort towards my recovery. That is the only thing I have any control over.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
There's no close or almost or wants to but can't and trying. There is doing or not doing.
Either he is drinking or he is not. Either he is working a program of recovery or he is not. I think that alcoholics are masters at semantics and convincing themselves that if they THINK enough about doing something (or claim they are thinking about it) that's akin to doing it. Not so much.
I say try as best you can to NOT worry about him. Look at his actions, not words and find a way to live your life regardless of what he does or does not do. Really, really easy for me to say. Not at all easy to do.
Either he is drinking or he is not. Either he is working a program of recovery or he is not. I think that alcoholics are masters at semantics and convincing themselves that if they THINK enough about doing something (or claim they are thinking about it) that's akin to doing it. Not so much.
I say try as best you can to NOT worry about him. Look at his actions, not words and find a way to live your life regardless of what he does or does not do. Really, really easy for me to say. Not at all easy to do.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 119
His actions do say he wants to change. He has taken steps that he talked about for 2 years. He is DOING, not just talking. I am so use to this man lying to me and manipulating me. I can spot his lies from a mile away. But lastnight he looked me in the eye and said he does not want to be this man anymore. He was telling the truth. I just worry that I will say the wrong thing.
But I guess as much as I wish, I'm just not that powerful. I need to remind myself that no matter what I say he is going to do what he is going to do. He drank regardless what I said and he will choose to not drink, regardless of what I say. I guess it's just "flipped" around now.
But I guess as much as I wish, I'm just not that powerful. I need to remind myself that no matter what I say he is going to do what he is going to do. He drank regardless what I said and he will choose to not drink, regardless of what I say. I guess it's just "flipped" around now.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
He is an active alcoholic so for now he will find ways to drink.
If you work a recovery program of your own and find others to call when you are at the end of your rope about his drinking (Al-Anon members), it will bring you back from the edge, help you stay sane rather than in mental chaos.
I would not expect anything from him right now, other than the way it has always been.
Is this the way you wish to live your life? If it is, then to maintain emotional health, you'll need the support of Al-Anon and counseling.
If you feel you cannot live with an active alcoholic, then to maintain emotional health as well as to prepare to make a separate life for yourself, you will still need Al-Anon and counseling.
No one involved and isolated with an alcoholic can be mentally and emotionally healthy and make good decisions. Really, you will become as irrational and delusional as the alcoholic.
Do you have a meeting? A sponsor? A counselor? That is what you need for now. Alone, you will be lost and depressed, and that will not change.
Wishing you all the best in recovery. You deserve a healthy life.
If you work a recovery program of your own and find others to call when you are at the end of your rope about his drinking (Al-Anon members), it will bring you back from the edge, help you stay sane rather than in mental chaos.
I would not expect anything from him right now, other than the way it has always been.
Is this the way you wish to live your life? If it is, then to maintain emotional health, you'll need the support of Al-Anon and counseling.
If you feel you cannot live with an active alcoholic, then to maintain emotional health as well as to prepare to make a separate life for yourself, you will still need Al-Anon and counseling.
No one involved and isolated with an alcoholic can be mentally and emotionally healthy and make good decisions. Really, you will become as irrational and delusional as the alcoholic.
Do you have a meeting? A sponsor? A counselor? That is what you need for now. Alone, you will be lost and depressed, and that will not change.
Wishing you all the best in recovery. You deserve a healthy life.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Originally Posted by womaninprogress
But lastnight he looked me in the eye and said he does not want to be this man anymore. He was telling the truth.
Originally Posted by womaninprogress
I just worry that I will say the wrong thing.
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: europe
Posts: 624
There is no right or wrong thing you can say.
If he truly wants recovery he'll seek it regardless of what you say or do.
He has to want it more than you do.
He has to want it more than anything else.
I understand your need to speak your frustrations, your fears, your anger or whatever, but in this case, as in any other, before you say to your AH what is on your mind, you should consider what are you trying to achieve with it. Getting into arguments is not helpful to you IMHO. That's why it is adviced not to do it.
You can not talk him into recovery or out of it. You simply don't have that power. No one does. If you learn this to be true your own life will become much more simple. At least that was the case in my experience.
Try finding other ways for venting that would be more helpful to you. Keep it true to yourself that way. Excercise, do whatever, just stay away from trying to reason with an A, as it can not be done, you can only drive yourself crazy in the process.
Take care
If he truly wants recovery he'll seek it regardless of what you say or do.
He has to want it more than you do.
He has to want it more than anything else.
I understand your need to speak your frustrations, your fears, your anger or whatever, but in this case, as in any other, before you say to your AH what is on your mind, you should consider what are you trying to achieve with it. Getting into arguments is not helpful to you IMHO. That's why it is adviced not to do it.
You can not talk him into recovery or out of it. You simply don't have that power. No one does. If you learn this to be true your own life will become much more simple. At least that was the case in my experience.
Try finding other ways for venting that would be more helpful to you. Keep it true to yourself that way. Excercise, do whatever, just stay away from trying to reason with an A, as it can not be done, you can only drive yourself crazy in the process.
Take care
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
I have found that, for me, detachment has a lot more to do with my motives than with my actions. A few examples...
When I decided to break up with XABF, I packed up all of his belongings and hired a small moving truck to deliver them to his mother's house.
This would be codependent and enabling if I had done it so that he wouldn't have to do it, because I felt bad for ending the relationship, because I didn't want him to have to do any work, etc...
I feel this decision was more detachment and empowerment on my end, though, because I did not want him to set foot in my apartment ever again, I didn't want him deciding upon things of mine to take or break as well, and I'd rather pay someone to move his things so that I'd never have to talk to him and he'd still get his stuff. I also feel better about this decision because I wouldn't have been at peace with myself if I had kept or thrown out the things I had moved to his mother's, not to mention the fear over him using them as an excuse to justify his stalking. Also, his mother is in failing health and he himself had bad lungs so I didn't feel as if I was causing potential health problems.
In Summary: I hired a moving truck for my own mental health and well-being, so that I could sleep at night, and so that I wouldn't have to talk to or see him at all.
Another example would be communicating boundaries and feelings.
Codependent/Enabling/Unhealthy: Communicating boundaries and feelings with an expectation that there will be some sort of result, that his behavior or choices will change due to that communication, and an expectation that he will respect that communication.
Detachment/Healthy: Communicating boundaries and feelings because I feel better having communicated them, because I feel better enforcing boundaries after having told the person what those boundaries are, with no expectation on changed behavior or even respect for my words from the person to whom I am communicating.
When we detach, we are the ones with the power of choices in our lives, and we are the ones deciding which actions and choices are the ones that make us feel the best and healthiest. We are a whole person.
When we're doing things in an unhealthy manner, we have given the power to the alcoholic/addict/insert-person-here, and are constantly trying to second-guess ourselves as to the choices we should make to please the other person. We are a less-than-person, trying to plug a hole in someone else.
When I decided to break up with XABF, I packed up all of his belongings and hired a small moving truck to deliver them to his mother's house.
This would be codependent and enabling if I had done it so that he wouldn't have to do it, because I felt bad for ending the relationship, because I didn't want him to have to do any work, etc...
I feel this decision was more detachment and empowerment on my end, though, because I did not want him to set foot in my apartment ever again, I didn't want him deciding upon things of mine to take or break as well, and I'd rather pay someone to move his things so that I'd never have to talk to him and he'd still get his stuff. I also feel better about this decision because I wouldn't have been at peace with myself if I had kept or thrown out the things I had moved to his mother's, not to mention the fear over him using them as an excuse to justify his stalking. Also, his mother is in failing health and he himself had bad lungs so I didn't feel as if I was causing potential health problems.
In Summary: I hired a moving truck for my own mental health and well-being, so that I could sleep at night, and so that I wouldn't have to talk to or see him at all.
Another example would be communicating boundaries and feelings.
Codependent/Enabling/Unhealthy: Communicating boundaries and feelings with an expectation that there will be some sort of result, that his behavior or choices will change due to that communication, and an expectation that he will respect that communication.
Detachment/Healthy: Communicating boundaries and feelings because I feel better having communicated them, because I feel better enforcing boundaries after having told the person what those boundaries are, with no expectation on changed behavior or even respect for my words from the person to whom I am communicating.
When we detach, we are the ones with the power of choices in our lives, and we are the ones deciding which actions and choices are the ones that make us feel the best and healthiest. We are a whole person.
When we're doing things in an unhealthy manner, we have given the power to the alcoholic/addict/insert-person-here, and are constantly trying to second-guess ourselves as to the choices we should make to please the other person. We are a less-than-person, trying to plug a hole in someone else.
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 119
Thank you all so much.
I have taken my life back for the most part. I kicked him out a year ago. Was no contact for a long time. Just over the holidays started even talking to him again. He just seems different now. In a good way. But I have allowed us to become "emeshed" again, and I need to take a step back.
I do feel better about where I'm at now compared to a year ago, alot of that comes from the wisdom and help I've found here. Thank you all so much.
I just get confused. My heart, my mind, my life is all in shambles right now. I have ALOT going on and really don't want to babyset a grown ass man. In fact that's exactly what I told him when he was offering me his account passwords and such so I could keep tabs on him. I don't want a boyfriend I have to babyset. I want a MAN who will be beside me, support me as much as I support him. Someone I can depend on and right now that's not him. May never be him.
I guess I get pulled in when he does good for long periods, I let my guard down and BAM he's at it again. Sucks. Maybe I need to get off this ride.
I have taken my life back for the most part. I kicked him out a year ago. Was no contact for a long time. Just over the holidays started even talking to him again. He just seems different now. In a good way. But I have allowed us to become "emeshed" again, and I need to take a step back.
I do feel better about where I'm at now compared to a year ago, alot of that comes from the wisdom and help I've found here. Thank you all so much.
I just get confused. My heart, my mind, my life is all in shambles right now. I have ALOT going on and really don't want to babyset a grown ass man. In fact that's exactly what I told him when he was offering me his account passwords and such so I could keep tabs on him. I don't want a boyfriend I have to babyset. I want a MAN who will be beside me, support me as much as I support him. Someone I can depend on and right now that's not him. May never be him.
I guess I get pulled in when he does good for long periods, I let my guard down and BAM he's at it again. Sucks. Maybe I need to get off this ride.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 693
Originally Posted by m1k3
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.
I found what worked best for me was to turn my effort towards my recovery. That is the only thing I have any control over.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.
I found what worked best for me was to turn my effort towards my recovery. That is the only thing I have any control over.
Last week my AH (we are separated) were talking. The subject of his drinking came up. He made some comment about "I know I was drinking too much before, but I've cut way back and I think I can be a 'normal' drinker now!"
It was tempting to blast him, to tell him how his drinking has torn up our family, our marriage, instead I said brightly "You and I both have choices. I accept your choice to drink. MY choice is not to live with an active alcoholic. I love you and I wish you well. It has been hard for me, but you know what, I've grown so much as a person and have gotten so much out of working a recovery program, I'm truly grateful for this experience in my life."
I think he was almost disappointed. I've stopped pulling on the rope in our tug-of-war game. I can only control my end of the rope, I can't control what he does on his end. The act of letting go is by far the kindest and fairest thing I can do both for myself and for him.
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