About to go through a world of pain
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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About to go through a world of pain
I have confirmed that my husband is using again. Although I'm still having a hard time accepting what that really means. It may be not as bad as before, it may be worse, as his friend thinks he is using heroin, but i dont know for sure. What i do know, from carefully observing his actions, is that he is lying to me about money, he pawned some of his tools, he is hanging out with people who use, he is texting people i dont know asking for "anything good", I also found fentanyl patch wrappers in the garage, but dont know if they are recent or from "before" (he was arrested in october and claims to have been clean since then). thats scary stuff i know. Also, I can tell by his eyes and his mood when he has used, he is so sweet and affectionate. Ive noticed a cycle of "good" days and "bad" days, and I dont think he goes more than two days without using. Ive been learning a lot about opiate addiction and codependency. im trying to take this one moment at a time, one feeling at a time, and to take care of myself and my kids, but im having a very hard time...im grieving the loss of my marriage. After talking with his best friend since childhood last night, i now know, because his friend says my AH stole money from him twice in the last couple months, and he believes he is very deep in active addiction right now. It confirmed a lot of my perceptions, but i realize I have a hard time trusting myself, im learning. So, Im trying to get an appointment set up with AH's counselor, and I guess i will give him an ultimatum- rehab or leave.
Im very scared, he will deny it, make me feel crazy, blame me, claim i just want to get rid of him, that im seeing someone else (im not of course!), thats what he did a couple weeks ago and i backed down, decided i was just paranoid. He became so enraged with my accusations that i was scared, he threatened to leave and use and said it was my fault. All i could think was that he would die and i didnt stop him. I ended up apologizing and begging him not to go...very messed up indeed.
The worst part is when he is neglecting me, I hurt so bad that I see our marriage not lasting and it makes it easier. But when he is loving me, I feel so close to him that I feel that the pain of losing him would literally be the end of me. He is on the loving side of that cycle right now, and the sad thing is its probably just because he has a good supply of drugs in his system....
This is not the first time ive been through this, my older childs father left us for drugs when she was four...this marriage was supposed to be our redemption! I blame myself for choosing this person as my poor daughter will have to lose another dad to this disease. I should have protected her! I hate myself for that. and now we have a baby, a beautiful baby girl. My girls are my light.
So here i am, standing at the edge of this, so scared and so sad. I dont know if im strong enough.
My worst fear, he will deny my accusations and leave us in anger. I will be so lonely. But i guess I already am alone anyway...
thanks for listening.
Im very scared, he will deny it, make me feel crazy, blame me, claim i just want to get rid of him, that im seeing someone else (im not of course!), thats what he did a couple weeks ago and i backed down, decided i was just paranoid. He became so enraged with my accusations that i was scared, he threatened to leave and use and said it was my fault. All i could think was that he would die and i didnt stop him. I ended up apologizing and begging him not to go...very messed up indeed.
The worst part is when he is neglecting me, I hurt so bad that I see our marriage not lasting and it makes it easier. But when he is loving me, I feel so close to him that I feel that the pain of losing him would literally be the end of me. He is on the loving side of that cycle right now, and the sad thing is its probably just because he has a good supply of drugs in his system....
This is not the first time ive been through this, my older childs father left us for drugs when she was four...this marriage was supposed to be our redemption! I blame myself for choosing this person as my poor daughter will have to lose another dad to this disease. I should have protected her! I hate myself for that. and now we have a baby, a beautiful baby girl. My girls are my light.
So here i am, standing at the edge of this, so scared and so sad. I dont know if im strong enough.
My worst fear, he will deny my accusations and leave us in anger. I will be so lonely. But i guess I already am alone anyway...
thanks for listening.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 159
Oh goodness. I am SO, SO sorry you have to go through this. I felt the same feelings...guilt for choosing the wrong man and putting my child through what she did, heartache going through the loss of the marriage, all you have said above.
I will defer to others on what to say to the counselor, but only send you wishes of strength for you and your kids. YOU are what matters. YOUR kids are what matter. Stay strong for them.
Hugs to you.
I will defer to others on what to say to the counselor, but only send you wishes of strength for you and your kids. YOU are what matters. YOUR kids are what matter. Stay strong for them.
Hugs to you.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Minneapolis
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becky...I understand the "loving" part. there is a great magnetism and deep well of emotional "bliss" when an addict turns their "love" toward you...at least there has been for me. in some ways I think that my addict tried harder in order to make up for the deficit of his cyclical relapsing and using. he had to balance out the dark with the light or I would not have stayed as long...I got hooked into the sweetness and just did not want to let it go. I paid the price with fear, anxiety, stress, watchfulness, and A LOT of HOPE. constant undying hope. and I think he knew it.
it sounds to me like you are tip toeing on a thickly laid floor of eggshells. one of the best things you can do for your own life and that of your daughters is to just quit walking on eggshells. there is an evil vicious elephant in your home and you are too afraid of its reaction.
I guess my advice for your counseling session...make a list for yourself of things you need to address, and prioritize it, maybe even email it to the counselor. I think you also need to make an appt for yourself alone, and going to some meetings and finding a personal sponsor will help you immensely. read everything you can here on the stickies. an addict will try to defend their DOC with lies and manipulation, it is just part of the disease. I am pretty savvy when it comes to addiction, really. I have been in the program/s for 6/2 years, therapy, intensive retreats, graduate classes. i thought I could "outsmart" my addict and hold up the mirror...in the end I cannot. intervention does work for some...if they want to be clean and sober. if they are not honest about their desire then they use the financial resources to go take a month break from life at rehab and drop their "recovery" on the way out the door, or shortly there after.
I get concerned by your great fear of not being strong enough and being too lonely.
I know that my love for my addict and the deep sweet well of "elixir" that he was for me (a whole lot of wild brain chemistry going on there!!!) made me feel like there wasn't another soul in the world that could fill me up that way, I felt like without him I wouldn't have that "intoxicating" source of "love". because I felt like that about an addict that kept going back out, I made the simple realization that I was co-addicted, co-dependent, love/relationship challenged, abandonment issues...whatever. I discovered A LOT that I had to work on...and what I had to work on MYSELF was really the only thing that I COULD work on!! Now, I have to say, there is A LOT of hope in that!!! You can actually do something about that!!! and at the end of the day it ends up being the best thing for ALL involved.
one last thing about the counseling appt. TRANSPARENCY & HONESTY. recovery is absolutely nothing without honesty.
rambling...sorry! peace.
it sounds to me like you are tip toeing on a thickly laid floor of eggshells. one of the best things you can do for your own life and that of your daughters is to just quit walking on eggshells. there is an evil vicious elephant in your home and you are too afraid of its reaction.
I guess my advice for your counseling session...make a list for yourself of things you need to address, and prioritize it, maybe even email it to the counselor. I think you also need to make an appt for yourself alone, and going to some meetings and finding a personal sponsor will help you immensely. read everything you can here on the stickies. an addict will try to defend their DOC with lies and manipulation, it is just part of the disease. I am pretty savvy when it comes to addiction, really. I have been in the program/s for 6/2 years, therapy, intensive retreats, graduate classes. i thought I could "outsmart" my addict and hold up the mirror...in the end I cannot. intervention does work for some...if they want to be clean and sober. if they are not honest about their desire then they use the financial resources to go take a month break from life at rehab and drop their "recovery" on the way out the door, or shortly there after.
I get concerned by your great fear of not being strong enough and being too lonely.
I know that my love for my addict and the deep sweet well of "elixir" that he was for me (a whole lot of wild brain chemistry going on there!!!) made me feel like there wasn't another soul in the world that could fill me up that way, I felt like without him I wouldn't have that "intoxicating" source of "love". because I felt like that about an addict that kept going back out, I made the simple realization that I was co-addicted, co-dependent, love/relationship challenged, abandonment issues...whatever. I discovered A LOT that I had to work on...and what I had to work on MYSELF was really the only thing that I COULD work on!! Now, I have to say, there is A LOT of hope in that!!! You can actually do something about that!!! and at the end of the day it ends up being the best thing for ALL involved.
one last thing about the counseling appt. TRANSPARENCY & HONESTY. recovery is absolutely nothing without honesty.
rambling...sorry! peace.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 64
Wow, thank you both so much. You are exactly right about the love elixer, I'm addicted. I read codependent no more, the new codependency, and now I'm reading the grief club. I'm a codie poster child for sure. I take much refuge in fixing myself. I will be honest, I'm just afraid that I will get "convinced" that I'm making something out of nothing, and these are just MY trust issues, as he's claimed in the past.
Can't thank you enough, your words bring so much peace and validation to my heart. I know I'm not alone.
Can't thank you enough, your words bring so much peace and validation to my heart. I know I'm not alone.
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Becky, you will find much support here. Hang on. All is not lost. Your mind is creating outcomes which have not yet happened. He has a "chronic, relapsing" disease of the brain. He may not always get clean and stay clean. This does not mean he will not get back on track after relapse. So it's best not to "catastrophize", as I hear in meetings, and foretell a future which has not yet unfolded.
His disease is making itself known, and it is good that all involved can see it and deal with it. If you seek help for yourself so to have the strength not to enable him or to be cowed by his accusations (that is the disease screaming at you), there is a good chance he will seek recovery again.
Please be compassionate toward yourself about who you "chose." God brings us the people we are meant to encounter and learn from and grow from (and with). And you have this gorgeous baby....and she was and is meant to be here.
Just don't isolate. With help, you will find all the strength and wisdom you need.
His disease is making itself known, and it is good that all involved can see it and deal with it. If you seek help for yourself so to have the strength not to enable him or to be cowed by his accusations (that is the disease screaming at you), there is a good chance he will seek recovery again.
Please be compassionate toward yourself about who you "chose." God brings us the people we are meant to encounter and learn from and grow from (and with). And you have this gorgeous baby....and she was and is meant to be here.
Just don't isolate. With help, you will find all the strength and wisdom you need.
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Wow -- that's heartbreaking and I am so, so sorry you are going through this.
My son is a heroin addict and he can't go much more than 48 hours without a fix, if that information is useful to you in any way. <shrug>
re: seeing the counselor -- I like to remember that it's pointless to ask a question of someone to which you already know the answer. It puts them on the defensive, sets it up to catch them in a lie, and the conversation spirals out of control quickly. So it is better to use "I" statements and keep the focus on yourself....something like "There has been a great deal of evidence that you are actively using drugs again. (No need to go into what the evidence is, he already knows!) I won't allow myself or our children to be subject to that lifestyle, related financial hardship and marital stress. I am asking you to find another place to live until such time as you feel ready to seek recovery."
You may even want to write down on an index card whatever it is you want to say so that you stay focused on the pertinent details.
((((Hugs))))
My son is a heroin addict and he can't go much more than 48 hours without a fix, if that information is useful to you in any way. <shrug>
re: seeing the counselor -- I like to remember that it's pointless to ask a question of someone to which you already know the answer. It puts them on the defensive, sets it up to catch them in a lie, and the conversation spirals out of control quickly. So it is better to use "I" statements and keep the focus on yourself....something like "There has been a great deal of evidence that you are actively using drugs again. (No need to go into what the evidence is, he already knows!) I won't allow myself or our children to be subject to that lifestyle, related financial hardship and marital stress. I am asking you to find another place to live until such time as you feel ready to seek recovery."
You may even want to write down on an index card whatever it is you want to say so that you stay focused on the pertinent details.
((((Hugs))))
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Join Date: Oct 2011
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I do isolate A LOT. It's because I feel shame. I will go to a meeting tonight. Thank you!
Tjp- thank you, that is a very clear way to state it, I don't want to give him a chance to rationalize away all my observations. I know I'm not crazy! I'm not inventing these things I see.
Tjp- thank you, that is a very clear way to state it, I don't want to give him a chance to rationalize away all my observations. I know I'm not crazy! I'm not inventing these things I see.
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I not so long ago got very upset at the thought of my bf leaving me for the drugs/alcohol. But you know what? When he IS here, he is a stranger anyway. When he IS here, all he does is complain and try to fight and argue. When he IS here, all he does is think of an excuse to leave so he can go drink or pop pills or whatever.
It is getting better. But it is a cycle, and what goes up must come down.
Just because he is relapsing, doesn't mean you have to as well. Even if he does try to deny it and blame and manipulate you, don't let him. Don't back down. Even if he does leave, then obviously he isn't worth it. Take this time to focus on yourself, so that you are the strongest person you can be, regardless of what happens with him.
It is getting better. But it is a cycle, and what goes up must come down.
Just because he is relapsing, doesn't mean you have to as well. Even if he does try to deny it and blame and manipulate you, don't let him. Don't back down. Even if he does leave, then obviously he isn't worth it. Take this time to focus on yourself, so that you are the strongest person you can be, regardless of what happens with him.
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Anvilhead- I believe you are right, and I find myself wanting to "keep the peace" a lot of the time. Over the years I stopped doing things I liked because it seemed to spark conflict between us- going to the gym, going to AA meetings, going out with the girls, wearing earings or heels, disagreeing with him when he is disciplining my older daughter, that last one has been the most difficult, but I feel he is too strict and controlling of her, he says I'm too soft, and has threatened to leave if I didn't back him up. My perceptions and self trust are so damaged that I believe him when he says im in the wrong.so confused. Thank you for pointing that out, I need to examine this and get counseling ASAP.
I will try to not back down, I'm questioning my own perceptions already! Why do I do this! I was so clear yesterday...
I will try to not back down, I'm questioning my own perceptions already! Why do I do this! I was so clear yesterday...
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Originally Posted by anvilhead 
what you describe is a form of the Cycle of Abuse...
The combination of abuse and your failed efforts to stop it: erode your self-confidence, devastate your self-esteem and destroy your sense of self-worth. You become fearful, insecure and dependent. Everything in your life eventually revolves around your abuser, their moods and their needs. You become a non-person, and as such, you are reduced to existing as your abuser's "possession" or "provider."
-------
The saddest thing of all: This insidious, repetitious wheel will break you so smoothly, there's an excellent chance you won't realize you've lost yourself. For some people it may take years... but it will break you.
Each time you take a spin on the Cycle of Abuse you lose a little piece of yourself. You never quite make it back up to your top again. Oh I know, you may think and believe you have... but you haven't. Every cycle of abuse takes you lower and lower and lower until one day, there is nothing left of you. You just don't recover. Look closely at yourself and your life... feel your feelings... listen to your own heart... reach into your spirit.
I now ask you...
Are you really the same person you were before you began riding The Cycle of Abuse?
The heavy weight of abuse crushes you a little bit more each time you travel around the cycle. Down, down, down you go... until you are physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually annihilated.
Heart 2 Heart
The combination of abuse and your failed efforts to stop it: erode your self-confidence, devastate your self-esteem and destroy your sense of self-worth. You become fearful, insecure and dependent. Everything in your life eventually revolves around your abuser, their moods and their needs. You become a non-person, and as such, you are reduced to existing as your abuser's "possession" or "provider."
-------
The saddest thing of all: This insidious, repetitious wheel will break you so smoothly, there's an excellent chance you won't realize you've lost yourself. For some people it may take years... but it will break you.
Each time you take a spin on the Cycle of Abuse you lose a little piece of yourself. You never quite make it back up to your top again. Oh I know, you may think and believe you have... but you haven't. Every cycle of abuse takes you lower and lower and lower until one day, there is nothing left of you. You just don't recover. Look closely at yourself and your life... feel your feelings... listen to your own heart... reach into your spirit.
I now ask you...
Are you really the same person you were before you began riding The Cycle of Abuse?
The heavy weight of abuse crushes you a little bit more each time you travel around the cycle. Down, down, down you go... until you are physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually annihilated.
Heart 2 Heart
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He is now is refusing to go to the counselor with me. He kept pressing me last night to tell him what's going on, and I finally told him I believe he is using again. He became enraged. I said if he didn't want to talk calmly then I will walk away, I went upstairs. He followed me. I'm holding our sleeping baby who woke up because of his continuous rant. To sum it up, he denies any use, he had an answer for everything, he said I'm making myself crazy snooping and he is going to start leaving stuff around and text messages to make it look like he is using and cheating on me just to mess with my head (a**hole!). He also said he is sick of everyone treating him like a junkie when he is not even using, he is ready to give us all the middle finger and leave. I asked what about your daughters? You would never see them again? He said it would be hard but he'd have to...then he said what's the point of staying clean if nobody believes him? He basically said I'm driving him back to his addiction.
During this whole thing I felt like his pupils were small. I decided to change my tune and tell him he could tell me anything, we'd get through it. He put his head down for a long time, said he didn't want to hurt me, and he's sorry. I told him I need to deal with my own pain, and he needs to deal with his sobriety. He did not admit anything.
I don't know what to believe, I don't know what to do. My gut tells me something is not right here...
I feel like I failed. Im gonna regroup, and work on my own program right now, praying for clarity...
During this whole thing I felt like his pupils were small. I decided to change my tune and tell him he could tell me anything, we'd get through it. He put his head down for a long time, said he didn't want to hurt me, and he's sorry. I told him I need to deal with my own pain, and he needs to deal with his sobriety. He did not admit anything.
I don't know what to believe, I don't know what to do. My gut tells me something is not right here...
I feel like I failed. Im gonna regroup, and work on my own program right now, praying for clarity...
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(((Becky)))
It is with love in my heart that I tell you that the things he said is practically indentical to what my addicted son used to say. If you read again what you've posted, it's ridiculous. Think about it... he's going to leave things around on purpose, he will make fake text messages? He now has an excuse for everything you may find in the future.
You are not driving him back to anything. He walked there all on his own. Trust your gut, hon. You are not the crazy one here. Take care of you and your girls and let him figure out what to do about his addiction.
You have not failed anything that you had any control over to begin with.
I wish for you the clarity that you seek
(((Hugs)))
It is with love in my heart that I tell you that the things he said is practically indentical to what my addicted son used to say. If you read again what you've posted, it's ridiculous. Think about it... he's going to leave things around on purpose, he will make fake text messages? He now has an excuse for everything you may find in the future.
You are not driving him back to anything. He walked there all on his own. Trust your gut, hon. You are not the crazy one here. Take care of you and your girls and let him figure out what to do about his addiction.
You have not failed anything that you had any control over to begin with.
I wish for you the clarity that you seek
(((Hugs)))
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Humpty Dumpty Time
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses, and
All the king's men couldn't
Put Humpty Dumpty together, again.
Get off the wall and save yourself and children from the same fate.
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses, and
All the king's men couldn't
Put Humpty Dumpty together, again.
Get off the wall and save yourself and children from the same fate.
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Cece's right. This is how addicts set up (manipulate) the situation so that they can put the blame on you when they remove the veil covering their current drug use.
Think about it. If the situation were reversed and you were the one that was sober and your H accused you of using.... would you become ENRAGED and start ranting about how you're gonna leave, never see your children again, and go back to using drugs? Or would you say, "I'm sorry you don't believe me. I understand how my past behavior might trigger you from time to time. Please give me a chance to prove to you that I am still clean and sober...JUST WATCH MY ACTIONS...and try to trust me. I know it will take time, but I am willing to do whatever it takes."
Trust your gut. ((((Hugs))))
Think about it. If the situation were reversed and you were the one that was sober and your H accused you of using.... would you become ENRAGED and start ranting about how you're gonna leave, never see your children again, and go back to using drugs? Or would you say, "I'm sorry you don't believe me. I understand how my past behavior might trigger you from time to time. Please give me a chance to prove to you that I am still clean and sober...JUST WATCH MY ACTIONS...and try to trust me. I know it will take time, but I am willing to do whatever it takes."
Trust your gut. ((((Hugs))))
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Time to think about a plan to get away, dear. This is verbal violence and your children will absorb it right through the skin.
We must not let our children suffer, no matter how much we think we can take ourselves. Many of us here had to leave our addicts because the addict's hostility and raging were damaging our children.
Please don't doubt your instincts here or what God has told you through others about his drugging.
No need to live this way and it's all right to make a plan to separate. This does not mean you will forever be apart. Separation creates space for recovery and safety. That's all.
I was also bullied by an AH, many years ago. My heart goes out to you.
We must not let our children suffer, no matter how much we think we can take ourselves. Many of us here had to leave our addicts because the addict's hostility and raging were damaging our children.
Please don't doubt your instincts here or what God has told you through others about his drugging.
No need to live this way and it's all right to make a plan to separate. This does not mean you will forever be apart. Separation creates space for recovery and safety. That's all.
I was also bullied by an AH, many years ago. My heart goes out to you.
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absolutely...cece, outtolunch, tjp...his rage is a telltale smokescreen.
also...junkies/addicts/bingeusers/dabblers (doesn't matter) in my experience really hate being called junkies. it's "beneath" them. that is until they really get clean and sober.
when you get the support you need, get some boundary and recovery, you will be amazed at the clarity with which you will see the machinations. he is trying to put a total spin on the truth.
also, everyone in recovery knows this...it's about progress not perfection...so if you "slipped" and "snooped" it just means you're not "perfect" and you never will be. your spirit needed a little hard reality to validate what your intuition was telling you. at some point, down the road of recovery...you will no longer "need to use" the detailed validation.
this is a one day at a time life we live. if we all had to put a bet on whether your H was using or not, with the evidence given, the odds would be "insanely high"
what you can do about it? go to the counselor yourself, keep posting, work on your strength of serenity...
stay present to the moment, stay planted in your own soil...
breathe, write, speak...allow yourself to come to terms and make decisions
when you "do the next right thing" and pray for guidance from whatever sources of higher power you have...life will unfold.
he is trying to spread eggshells with his rage.
you should not have to face that rage, it is abusive
have a plan in place in case he gets even more defensive of his use, have a plan in case it turns physical (what will you do?) and then decide whether you want to use that plan now due to the mental abuse.
peace to you
don't let the lies bring you down
also...junkies/addicts/bingeusers/dabblers (doesn't matter) in my experience really hate being called junkies. it's "beneath" them. that is until they really get clean and sober.
when you get the support you need, get some boundary and recovery, you will be amazed at the clarity with which you will see the machinations. he is trying to put a total spin on the truth.
also, everyone in recovery knows this...it's about progress not perfection...so if you "slipped" and "snooped" it just means you're not "perfect" and you never will be. your spirit needed a little hard reality to validate what your intuition was telling you. at some point, down the road of recovery...you will no longer "need to use" the detailed validation.
this is a one day at a time life we live. if we all had to put a bet on whether your H was using or not, with the evidence given, the odds would be "insanely high"
what you can do about it? go to the counselor yourself, keep posting, work on your strength of serenity...
stay present to the moment, stay planted in your own soil...
breathe, write, speak...allow yourself to come to terms and make decisions
when you "do the next right thing" and pray for guidance from whatever sources of higher power you have...life will unfold.
he is trying to spread eggshells with his rage.
you should not have to face that rage, it is abusive
have a plan in place in case he gets even more defensive of his use, have a plan in case it turns physical (what will you do?) and then decide whether you want to use that plan now due to the mental abuse.
peace to you
don't let the lies bring you down
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 445
I was reading this thread; and it reminds me of how there are two sides to every story. *No offense intended to Becky; your being very honest; your AH most likely is using; and your feeling are justified....
But I was reading about how he responded to finding out you set up a counseling appt; obviously you felt it best to try to keep him in the dark about why - but I can see how the disconnect would hurt him.*
I'm sure you presented evidence that you found to support your beliefs; but I think one of the reasons codies are not supposed to waste energy on this is because usually it leads to a bad confrontation; and do you really need physical proof in your decision making at this point? *Aren't your feelings enough ?*
Yesterday I was reading a thread under the Substance Abuse Forum; for anyone interested its called: set-up-failure-what-do-i-do-long-post-sorry
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ost-sorry.html
It's worth the read; it helped me remember that there are two sides; two
peole who are often hurting.
But I was reading about how he responded to finding out you set up a counseling appt; obviously you felt it best to try to keep him in the dark about why - but I can see how the disconnect would hurt him.*
I'm sure you presented evidence that you found to support your beliefs; but I think one of the reasons codies are not supposed to waste energy on this is because usually it leads to a bad confrontation; and do you really need physical proof in your decision making at this point? *Aren't your feelings enough ?*
Yesterday I was reading a thread under the Substance Abuse Forum; for anyone interested its called: set-up-failure-what-do-i-do-long-post-sorry
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ost-sorry.html
It's worth the read; it helped me remember that there are two sides; two
peole who are often hurting.
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