Am I a fool to believe?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 7
Am I a fool to believe?
Hello All,
I am new here to this site. What has brought me here is a last ditch effort to determine if I'm fighting a losing battle, or if my faith in my A's future success at truly working his program is founded or not. I am one of those truly empathetic people who can tell when someone is not feeling "right". Living with my A, I find that I am super sensitive when he hits a struggle point in his day to day recovery. He has been sober for over 3 years, going onto 4 in May. He is a phenominally good person, caring, loving and wanting to be compassionate..whenhe's working his program..When he's not, he's got a total "f the world" attitude, shuts off 100% and withdraws. He is also terrified of coming into contact with his own emotions. We are coming up on 1 year of our relationship and are already in couples counseling, which seems to be helping. Why am I saying all this when it seems that things are on a positive upswing? Because it keeps dropping out.. In the past year I've seen this amazing man that I am desperately in love with, because we have so much in common..turn into a broody, verbally cruel, heartless and unfeeling individual who is exhibiting such strong signs of self loathing, verbal abuse and hatred towards the world it is staggering. I have never felt it was my place to push him to go to meetings. I'm 100% supportive of him going, (he's gone weeks without) and have gone to many with him to support him. I'd never "tell" him to go..however, he's mentioned in the past month or so that he is really missing his old life style, the drinking and partying (was an orgy type environment w/ his ex wife) and that "rush" of the taboo.. this is what took us into counseling...He admits that he's "dry drunk"..however, doesnt' seem to be doing more than going to 3 meetings a week instead of 1.. At this point, it appears as things are mending..however..I'm losing faith, this is not the first time this up/down Jeckyl/Hyde situation has happened in just under 12 months.. How did I make the decision to move in with you might ask??? He convinced me that all the right doors were opening (a job literally fell in my lap near where he lives.. which was out of state from where I lived).. and things were working "for" us, and that it wasn't as "bad" as i thought it was..I had reservations before moving in..we had struggles early on.. with him shutting down and pushing me away.....however.. my emotional state is struggling..I want to forgive his past "attacks" (never physical, all verbal and emotional) and his treatment of his family (not a good relationship there at all).. and move forward, hoping this is "finally" the time where he really goes at his program 100%, however I feel so judgemental.as I sit back and see if he's gonna really do this this time... I have my ducks in a row to leave, I"m self sufficient.. and while I know "I" am more important to me than he is... I don't want to give up.... does this jeckyl/hyde cycle ever end??? Is there ever a true, long path of straight recovery, that spiritual searching..that peace that i know he craves?? Is this a pipe dream? I'm asking for advice.. not pity..and thank you all for your time.. or comments.. He does say he loves me, regularly, and when he shows it..its so over the top, its almost unbelieveable.. its just the up/down.. so difficult.. like the little girl w/ a curl..When he is good, he is very very good..but when he is bad..he is horrid..
Frog..
I am new here to this site. What has brought me here is a last ditch effort to determine if I'm fighting a losing battle, or if my faith in my A's future success at truly working his program is founded or not. I am one of those truly empathetic people who can tell when someone is not feeling "right". Living with my A, I find that I am super sensitive when he hits a struggle point in his day to day recovery. He has been sober for over 3 years, going onto 4 in May. He is a phenominally good person, caring, loving and wanting to be compassionate..whenhe's working his program..When he's not, he's got a total "f the world" attitude, shuts off 100% and withdraws. He is also terrified of coming into contact with his own emotions. We are coming up on 1 year of our relationship and are already in couples counseling, which seems to be helping. Why am I saying all this when it seems that things are on a positive upswing? Because it keeps dropping out.. In the past year I've seen this amazing man that I am desperately in love with, because we have so much in common..turn into a broody, verbally cruel, heartless and unfeeling individual who is exhibiting such strong signs of self loathing, verbal abuse and hatred towards the world it is staggering. I have never felt it was my place to push him to go to meetings. I'm 100% supportive of him going, (he's gone weeks without) and have gone to many with him to support him. I'd never "tell" him to go..however, he's mentioned in the past month or so that he is really missing his old life style, the drinking and partying (was an orgy type environment w/ his ex wife) and that "rush" of the taboo.. this is what took us into counseling...He admits that he's "dry drunk"..however, doesnt' seem to be doing more than going to 3 meetings a week instead of 1.. At this point, it appears as things are mending..however..I'm losing faith, this is not the first time this up/down Jeckyl/Hyde situation has happened in just under 12 months.. How did I make the decision to move in with you might ask??? He convinced me that all the right doors were opening (a job literally fell in my lap near where he lives.. which was out of state from where I lived).. and things were working "for" us, and that it wasn't as "bad" as i thought it was..I had reservations before moving in..we had struggles early on.. with him shutting down and pushing me away.....however.. my emotional state is struggling..I want to forgive his past "attacks" (never physical, all verbal and emotional) and his treatment of his family (not a good relationship there at all).. and move forward, hoping this is "finally" the time where he really goes at his program 100%, however I feel so judgemental.as I sit back and see if he's gonna really do this this time... I have my ducks in a row to leave, I"m self sufficient.. and while I know "I" am more important to me than he is... I don't want to give up.... does this jeckyl/hyde cycle ever end??? Is there ever a true, long path of straight recovery, that spiritual searching..that peace that i know he craves?? Is this a pipe dream? I'm asking for advice.. not pity..and thank you all for your time.. or comments.. He does say he loves me, regularly, and when he shows it..its so over the top, its almost unbelieveable.. its just the up/down.. so difficult.. like the little girl w/ a curl..When he is good, he is very very good..but when he is bad..he is horrid..
Frog..
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 130
Are you willing to continue to live with him as he is now? I find that it has helped me to basically find a way to accept how my own AH is right now -- not easy, since he's been a very wet drunk up until Friday, and now law enforcement is preventing him -- but I've learned that I can't pin my hopes on change.
That said...I think it's extremely variable how people do with their recovery. It sounds like he really is trying, though I would wonder if he isn't sneaking a sip in there -- not saying he necessarily is, I know my AH is perfectly capable of showing his "drunken cruelty" when he simply wants a drink and can't have one (i.e. out of money).
My own mother has been sober for almost nine years now and is married to an active A, and I still see some pretty significant swings from her sometimes. It seems to be tapering off over the years, she knows that she will be much worse than ever before if she goes back to drinking, and now she has five grandkids and two more on the way (me and SIL are both due in May) that she knows she will not be permitted to be involved with if she ever goes back to it. But she also readily admits that, even nine years sober, it's still a daily struggle. It amazes me that she's able to live with someone intent on drinking himself to death and has still managed to stay sober, and sometimes she has to hold on for dear life to do it. Luckily her irritability now is far less than the violence when she was drunk, but it's still obvious when she hits a wall where her body and mind are telling her that she needs alcohol to deal with this particular problem.
So...as with everything, what you do is an extremely personal decision. I probably wouldn't be able to ever live with my mother again -- I left home at 15 -- but still have a good, consistent relationship with her. With significant others, it's a whole different ballgame. I'm still with an active A (hoping maybe that R can go on there once he's out of inpatient treatment, his jail time and his probation) but it's all about what you're willing to accept for your life. Big hugs, hope you're able to find some clarity on this
.
That said...I think it's extremely variable how people do with their recovery. It sounds like he really is trying, though I would wonder if he isn't sneaking a sip in there -- not saying he necessarily is, I know my AH is perfectly capable of showing his "drunken cruelty" when he simply wants a drink and can't have one (i.e. out of money).
My own mother has been sober for almost nine years now and is married to an active A, and I still see some pretty significant swings from her sometimes. It seems to be tapering off over the years, she knows that she will be much worse than ever before if she goes back to drinking, and now she has five grandkids and two more on the way (me and SIL are both due in May) that she knows she will not be permitted to be involved with if she ever goes back to it. But she also readily admits that, even nine years sober, it's still a daily struggle. It amazes me that she's able to live with someone intent on drinking himself to death and has still managed to stay sober, and sometimes she has to hold on for dear life to do it. Luckily her irritability now is far less than the violence when she was drunk, but it's still obvious when she hits a wall where her body and mind are telling her that she needs alcohol to deal with this particular problem.
So...as with everything, what you do is an extremely personal decision. I probably wouldn't be able to ever live with my mother again -- I left home at 15 -- but still have a good, consistent relationship with her. With significant others, it's a whole different ballgame. I'm still with an active A (hoping maybe that R can go on there once he's out of inpatient treatment, his jail time and his probation) but it's all about what you're willing to accept for your life. Big hugs, hope you're able to find some clarity on this
.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 7
Thank you both, and yes.. I have also always been a firm believer that when someone treats their family without kindness.. then they wont' treat you with any. I am in personal counseling myself for...surprise.. ."co-dependency".. This is my pattern, the last relationship (took a 2 year break after that one...to reboot).. was an active A who was physically and verbally abusive. This ABF when he's "working" his program is wonderful to everyone..family and the like... its when he starts slipping... that I start seeing that cruel, selfish, f the world side... I buried my first husband at the age of 21 as he struggled through Cancer..and even at his illest with the Chemo, he was never cruel, or harsh with me.... How i can accept worse treatment now..has me puzzled.. my counselor is very good, she's working with me weekly.. and .. honestly..I have always said I need to be honest w/ myself.. When I "KNOW" i'm ready to leave, I will..I always have.. i'm just surprised at my drive to continue to stay in this situation.... I think..i see this as my ABF teaching me something... and i'm not done learning...
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
To answer your question, yes.
You do realize that Jeckyl and Hyde are a package deal. Also as the disease progresses you will see a lot more of Mr Hyde and a lot less Dr Jeckyl. At least that was my experience with my AW.
Your friend,
You do realize that Jeckyl and Hyde are a package deal. Also as the disease progresses you will see a lot more of Mr Hyde and a lot less Dr Jeckyl. At least that was my experience with my AW.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
i've witnesssed true recovery before, so i know it is possible. the successful person in mind went through a deep spiritual transformation. i'm not saying she doesn't struggle at times, but everyone, alcoholic or not, struggles at points in life. when she struggles, she works her program harder. i've watched her go back, get a new sponsor and start over again at step one, even though she has completed the steps before. so yes, it appears to be possible albeit rare.
i feel to add that she stays her course by giving back through service.
since you are financially secure, one option for you could be to remain in the relationship, yet move out. this way, you can leave when mr. jekyl arises and return to your own peaceful apartment.
i feel to add that she stays her course by giving back through service.
since you are financially secure, one option for you could be to remain in the relationship, yet move out. this way, you can leave when mr. jekyl arises and return to your own peaceful apartment.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
Originally Posted by Frog429 
does this jeckyl/hyde cycle ever end??? Is there ever a true, long path of straight recovery, that spiritual searching..that peace that i know he craves??
Who is he today? That is the person you are deciding to live with or not.
Keep your ducks all lined up while you figure out your answers. That keeps all the options open to you and I like naive's idea of living separately.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 271
So I can relate my EXAB has been "sober" as far as I know (which means we really don't know what people are doing when we are not around) for 5 months.
He is in AA with a sponsor, last I heard on step 9 , has a therapist , and a psyche and is on Meds for anxiety (SSRI not benzos).
I should add that when he's great this man professes his love, buy lavish gifts, love notes, is affectionate and over the top in every way. The flip side is a mean, selfish, self hating, very sad and diseased person.
Guess what it's nt even 50-50 and I bet your situation isn't either. My Ex was 80% exhibiting unacceptable and unloving behavior. But his over the top love gestures made it seem much better than it was.
Gee I learned that I deserve someone who operates out of a loving space 100% of the time. That doesn't mean someone needs to be perfect ur just men's being kind, honest , loving, and healthy.
I would have been thrilled with 50-50 while I was enmeshed in the relationship but once I went no contact I realize how insane my thinking became.
He is who he is now...let him go and work on himself and if he does this man may meet the qualifications to have you in his life.
Moving out is a great start. Us Codies get addicted to the addict and we have to seen ourselves off of them. So one step at a time. Moving out would be an excellent start.
Time to focus on you and let him focus on him (or his drinking if that's what he wants).
He is in AA with a sponsor, last I heard on step 9 , has a therapist , and a psyche and is on Meds for anxiety (SSRI not benzos).
I should add that when he's great this man professes his love, buy lavish gifts, love notes, is affectionate and over the top in every way. The flip side is a mean, selfish, self hating, very sad and diseased person.
Guess what it's nt even 50-50 and I bet your situation isn't either. My Ex was 80% exhibiting unacceptable and unloving behavior. But his over the top love gestures made it seem much better than it was.
Gee I learned that I deserve someone who operates out of a loving space 100% of the time. That doesn't mean someone needs to be perfect ur just men's being kind, honest , loving, and healthy.
I would have been thrilled with 50-50 while I was enmeshed in the relationship but once I went no contact I realize how insane my thinking became.
He is who he is now...let him go and work on himself and if he does this man may meet the qualifications to have you in his life.
Moving out is a great start. Us Codies get addicted to the addict and we have to seen ourselves off of them. So one step at a time. Moving out would be an excellent start.
Time to focus on you and let him focus on him (or his drinking if that's what he wants).
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
I AM an addict in recovery, and yes, I think you are fooling yourself.
I can't even rely on myself at this point, so no, neither can anyone else rely on me.
Sometimes we hope relationships, or even life itself, is some sort of trial or dress rehearsal for the real thing. We think that if we hang in long enough or whatever it will be different when 'real' life kicks in, or when the relationship "really" gets off it's feet etc.
Nope, THIS is the real thing. THIS is what you get. This is your life. Either it's working or it's not. Either you are willing to live with it as it is, or you're not.
I got to a point where i was no longer willing to live with myself in active addiction. Now in recovery, I can stop growing at any point at which I grow complacent or decide that I've reached a level of behavior in myself that I am willing to live with. I will only push on when I am uncomfortable enough to want to change things some more.
The fact that my friends or partner or dog isn't comfortable with who I am is not neccessarily going to motivate me.
My husband divorced me. I've often wanted to divorce me too, but I can't, so I have to work on my recovery until I am a "me" that I can live with.
you don't have to live with him. If you don't like who he is, your option is to walk away.
I can't even rely on myself at this point, so no, neither can anyone else rely on me.
Sometimes we hope relationships, or even life itself, is some sort of trial or dress rehearsal for the real thing. We think that if we hang in long enough or whatever it will be different when 'real' life kicks in, or when the relationship "really" gets off it's feet etc.
Nope, THIS is the real thing. THIS is what you get. This is your life. Either it's working or it's not. Either you are willing to live with it as it is, or you're not.
I got to a point where i was no longer willing to live with myself in active addiction. Now in recovery, I can stop growing at any point at which I grow complacent or decide that I've reached a level of behavior in myself that I am willing to live with. I will only push on when I am uncomfortable enough to want to change things some more.
The fact that my friends or partner or dog isn't comfortable with who I am is not neccessarily going to motivate me.
My husband divorced me. I've often wanted to divorce me too, but I can't, so I have to work on my recovery until I am a "me" that I can live with.
you don't have to live with him. If you don't like who he is, your option is to walk away.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 7
Thank you all for your comments and feedback. The most honest thing I can say, is I truly hear each and every one of you..and I truly do not know what I want to do..I do know what i need to do. I love this man, I see the struggle..but I know I can't help him.. We just had a horrible evening after a 4 day period of peace/tranquilty...due to me unexpectedly walking in oh him in an "intimate" moment w/ himself.. I was out of the house for 15 minutes.. He's not "intimate" w/ me.. on even a semi-regular basis..that is the reason we are in couseling.. to deal w/ his "intimacy" issues... and all sorts of other things are coming up..he doesn't want to deal w/ them..I'm the enemy, even while he says that..he says he's the enemy to himself.. I've never seen anyone struggle this way.. I know what I have to do... question is.. will I be smart enough to do it.. Can I let my brain override my heart..? How can I still love someone who lashes out at me in the manner he does.. I have a counseling session today with my therapist, I will talk to her.. hopefully she can give me that little boot I need to get out..because I know that is where this is having to go.. no questions asked..thank you all again..
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
I reached this point in my relationship when I realized I had choices whether I decided to use them or not.
That was an eye opener and allowed my to look at my life and what I wanted out of my life. I was now able to start thinking in terms of me rather than us. It was very scary and liberating.
Your friend,
That was an eye opener and allowed my to look at my life and what I wanted out of my life. I was now able to start thinking in terms of me rather than us. It was very scary and liberating.
Your friend,
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 602
Originally Posted by Frog429
We just had a horrible evening after a 4 day period of peace/tranquilty...due to me unexpectedly walking in oh him in an "intimate" moment w/ himself...
It's okay not to know what you want to do right now, it's okay to just still be considering options.
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
Posts: 2,708
Originally Posted by Frog429
I know what I have to do... question is.. will I be smart enough to do it..
That moment will come for you. Until then, you can reflect, read lots, post more, and take care of yourself.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
How can I still love someone who lashes out at me in the manner he does?
take it all the way back to childhood. that is where your answer lies. and that is how you break the cycle.
and just some feedback, but i've been in the same, um, situation and it is not even awkward...normally they would be delighted to see me and ask me to help them out or join in myself...
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London
Posts: 51
I read posts and I relate to them. We all ask ourselves the same questions, time and time again. I think more often than not we keep asking until we find the answer ourselves. Just like our A's we can only make active decisions when we are truly ready. My A has just relapsed after rehab and 5 months sober. I find myself asking the question, do I really want to live like this? The sensible me say's ''run for your life''. The loyal me say's ''don't you dare'' and my heart, well that just say's ''don't ever let go''.. and until all of those people inside me are in agreement I will keep asking that very same question to no avail. A bit like the A really? There is one thing you must be certain of and that is to accept you are powerless and to take care of yourself. Once you do that, well you then you emotionally set yourself free and you can have some peace within even when there is chaos all around.
Never abandon hope.
Never abandon hope.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
Sometimes we hope relationships, or even life itself, is some sort of trial or dress rehearsal for the real thing. We think that if we hang in long enough or whatever it will be different when 'real' life kicks in, or when the relationship "really" gets off it's feet etc.
Nope, THIS is the real thing. THIS is what you get. This is your life. Either it's working or it's not. Either you are willing to live with it as it is, or you're not.
Nope, THIS is the real thing. THIS is what you get. This is your life. Either it's working or it's not. Either you are willing to live with it as it is, or you're not.
Also, Mike:
I reached this point in my relationship when I realized I had choices whether I decided to use them or not.
But you always do. You always have choices. They may be scary, they may be hard, but you always have them.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 548
Originally Posted by lillamy
That was a turning point for me, too. Realizing I had choices. For so long, I didn't feel like I did.
But you always do. You always have choices. They may be scary, they may be hard, but you always have them.
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