dbh

Over the weekend I was at an event with my daughter. I ended up hanging out with another mom (mom A) for most of the night. During the course of the evening she started to talk about some problems/concerns that she has with a mutual friend of ours. I agreed with most of her concerns and I too have had problems in the past with this person.

Our mutual friend (mom B) can be controlling, harsh (she likes to "tell it like it is"), and she constantly offers unsolicited advice. She likes to tell you what you're doing wrong as a parent and/or analyze your children.

We all have children the same age and see each other on a semi-regular basis. My solution has been to be cautious around mom B and to set boundaries. Setting boundaries is still so difficult for me though.

Anyway, I got pulled into gossiping about mom B with the other mother. Here we were doing the same exact thing that we don't like in her! Found myself saying "You know what she needs to do ..." Yuck!

I came home feeling awful. It took me hours to calm down.

Early in my recovery I found myself thinking "Thank goodness I'm 'only' an ACA". I looked over the list of traits, was able to relate to most of them, but didn't see all of them as a big deal. I would laugh about how controlling I could be, how I like to avoid conflict, or my latest people pleasing performance.

These traits are serious though. Just the act of gossiping got me into a bit of a tailspin. I started feeling insecure and wondered what these moms say about ME when I'm not around (because you know that they do :-) During the event I had to supervise a group of teens and a couple of them had attitudes. I immediately got paranoid and wondered if these moms also talked badly about me in front of their daughters.

I got home, got some rest, meditated a bit, and then realized I had a "relapse".

• I can't control these women or what they talk about.
• I can't control moody teens.
• I have to believe that I'm okay.
• My self worth and serenity shouldn't depend on others.

Mini Step 5 - gossiping about others and thinking that I know what others need to do are some of my "character flaws".

What do you do when you're around people who try to pull you into gossiping?

These women are part of my community and I can't simply cut them out of my life.

I need to know how to protect myself around difficult people.

Still have such a hard time establishing healthy friendship!

Thanks for letting me share.

db

Willybluedog

I am an ACA also and struggle with these types of interactions but my problem is an explosive temper when I feel disrepected.

I would like to recommend a book to you, it is called "Dealing With Difficult People at Home and at Work" by Robert Barmson, $7.00 Amazon, 4-1/2 stars. I had an HR person recommend this book to me when I became a first time supervisor. It covers bullies, gossips, sulkers, etc. The book shows ways to identify and handle these situations, with everything to dealing with your boss to other parents at little league.

You can probably get a copy at the library, but it is nice to have when you wnat to brush up on a particular type of person.

Big hugs and best of luck,

Bill

Kialua

The rule I (try) to live by is I never say anything to someone that I wouldn't mind being repeated BECAUSE it always IS. Just know that sooner or later anything you say will be repeated, its awfully hard for people to not telll "just one person". After realizing this and having it bear true it was much easier for me to live by.

Plath

You sound like you have great recovery to be able to realize these things, dbh. Good for you for recognizing it and trying to find a way to live in the solution.

It's hard to be around people who gossip, talk crap, etc.
Especially for myself, as I've learned to be a very negative, sarcastic, judgmental person who constantly needs to "vent" about something or someone. *sigh...*

I think you're right on target with the things you can't control vs. the things you CAN control. You can't control how they conduct themselves, but you can control your own actions, and it sounds like you caught yourself in a timely manner.

It's especially difficult when it's people we can't just cut out of our lives, people we *have* to deal with on a regular basis.
I'm probably going to get off of the forum as soon as I post this, and order that book Bill is talking about. Sounds like one most of us could benefit from reading!

Many warm thoughts going out to you for being a good mom who is involved in her kids' lives, and for being honest with yourself about behaviors that you feel are unhealthy for you.

dbh

Thank you for the book recommendation Bill. I struggle so much with relationships. Healthy relationships were not modeled for me as a child. With my mother things were always black and white. As she got older, whenever someone hurt her, she would cut them out of her life. She now has hardly any friends and only communicates with a handful of people. I truly want to learn how to work through differences and how to deal with difficult people/situations without having to run away.

On an intellectual level I know that gossip is bad. While growing up though this was our main way of communication. We would never confront each other directly. For example, I would find out why my mother was mad at me through my sister. It was so dysfunctional.

So, even though I know it's unhealthy, wrong, and hurtful I get drawn into it because it feels "comfortable" in a strange way. Gotta say that my comfort level was short lived this weekend though.

Guess I should be happy with some progress.

Not sure if anyone else can relate.

Thanks again.

db

Plath

I know what you mean about something negative being "comfortable".

I've found that I learned to focus on the negatives in life rather than the positives, because the negatives gave me a much greater reason to focus my attention on them in my childhood.

So now, as an adult, it's really difficult for me to focus on positive things, and not be that funny, sarcastic friend who is always complaining about "the annoying things" in life.

I'm much more comfortable being sarcastic and "witty" while complaining than I am just relaxing and talking about other things. It's almost like I don't even know how to do it!

So good on you, at least you've come far enough to have those realizations and catch yourself.

MMkM

dbh thank you for showing us how you worked through a step using recovery tools.

That was very helpful.

I actually find socializing with people is fine, but tend to try not to engage in active gossiping. I might even make a neutral statement that I don't like to gossip about people. Hopefully, the other person agrees.

I find that friends made at Church tend to be the friendliest. We still, though, have to socialize with others. I just make a rule, politely stated, I don't indulge in gossip. A statement of fact about another person is fine.

I find gossip hurtful and know it is done by many and know I have been the subject of it myself.

Love the steps you reviewed after you calmed yourself down.

Great example for us all in recovery.

missg

WoW! Wonderful level of self-awareness...shows A LOT of recovery work!! And well,ya know, it's 'progress not perfection'.

I suspect just about everyone gets drawn into gossip once in a while,especially if it is about someone we don't care for. I'm not immune but I really really try not to go there.I grew up in a family where there were triangles all over the place...everyone talked ABOUT everyone else rather than TO anyone else. Putting other people down was an accepted form of 'amusement' (because ya know we were so much smarter than everyone else on the planet. urgh) My AM actually needle pointed a pillow that says "If you don't have anything nice to say about anyone come sit by me". As she sits alone drinking with no one there even on holidays anymore I'd like to throw out a big Dr Phil shout to her of "hows that pillow thought workin' out for you?!" (but of course don't.....)

My ACA traits never included either people pleasing or having trouble with confrontations. My boundary setting early in recovery was a bit on the overboard,semi-confrontational side. Over time it has softened up quite a bit because my observation is that healthy people with good boundaries don't have to make some big statement or deal out of it...they just seem to quietly project it in a way that other people get. It seems to that people who don't gossip don't make a big announcement about it.....they just don't do it. So that is what I do....I mean don't do. I change the subject or suddenly see something across the room that needs doing or have to go to the ladies room.
Works fine for me.

As for people launching into some completely inappropriate comments or criticism of the kind you describe I use a technique that I read Jackie Kennedy used when people said wierd/inappropriate stuff to her. I don't say anything.....I just look at the person as though I am rather dimwitted and completely confused and don't understand one single thing that they are saying and I keep looking at them that way, not saying a word until they stop. Honestly,this usually works. And it works with kids too!! It isn't easy to do...takes a lot of self control.... . Sometimes I will throw in a "Really?Seriously?" with a smile and walk away if it's really bad. The payback with someone who is just seriously being a big pain in the butt is watching their frustration at not getting the attention they are used to getting via negative behaviors.

Silence can be a very powerful tool. Not the kind of silence which avoids but the kind that stands centered and calm speaking volumes. I can't explain it exactly but as time has gone along I more live my boundaries than speak them.

gplmdyw

You've got excellent insight and sound like you really care about being the best you can be, and as though you really do spiritual work and are willing. If I may, a step 10 is what I believe is in order.

You could tell Mom A that you apologize for burdening her with your opinions about Mom B, and you regret having gossiped.

In the future instead of participating in gossip, when someone begins it you could just say you would rather not talk about other people. Do it! Walk through the fear and stop compromising your own recovery. Ask God for help first and you will be surprised how well the other person takes it. After all, wouldn't you accept it (albeit with a little discomfort) if someone said that to you? Of course you would. You'd almost expect it, in fact.

This is how to get respect and friends.

What others think of you DOESN"T matter, actually. You're right about that.

Good luck.

GingerM

I often make remarks such as:

"I don't like to judge a person on their outward behaviors; none of us know what's going on inside their head or their world."

"We're all human, we're all entitled to our opinions, but unless we know exactly what the other person is living through, judgment is not helpful."

"Unless we're perfect ourselves, we have no right to be judging the flaws of others."

And if the people are really out of line, I will simply say "I don't like to talk about others when they don't have the ability to speak for themselves. I think I'll go [do something that allows you to walk away from the gossips]."

I have one coworker who could be mom B. She is the nosiest most judgmental person I think I've ever met. She seems to believe that by blowing out someone else's flame, her own flame burns brighter. She cannot see that by blowing out someone else's flame, all she does is make the world a darker place.

A few days ago, I commented to one of my other coworkers (who I've worked with for a couple of decades and consider a friend) that I was carrying a great hunk of stress around because I'm very concerned that my dad will be killed in prison (this is not an unrealistic concern). Nosy coworker butted into the conversation (she does that a LOT) and said "Just remember, you didn't put him there." I turned and faced her directly and said "It does not matter to me where he is or what he's doing, I do not want my father to be murdered. I can't imagine anyone who would want their father murdered." And I walked (not stomped, not huffed, walked) out of the room.

I have parrots. One trick for extinguishing unwanted behavior in parrots is to turn your back on them. In their social structure, that is the equivalent of saying "don't talk to me, I don't like you." Interestingly, this works really well with people too. You don't even have to walk away - the mere turning your back on the person gets through to them in ways that words cannot. When all else fails, resort to animal training techniques