How do I deal with Mr Nice?
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How do I deal with Mr Nice?
Now AH is playing Mr Nice I am having a big wobble. Why?? This evening, after returning from a night away, AH is all calm, chatty and sober. He is also being great with the kids.
The divorce petition arrived when I was away. He said he is very sorry this is happening, that he loves me very much and I am making a really big mistake. The covering letter asked him to move out to his parents' place but he says he wants to stay around to be a "proper father" to the boys for as long as he can. There is no need for things between us to be unpleasant or tense.
He was all nice, saying how he wants to deal with this in a conciliatory fashion but he thinks that my solicitors are very aggressive. He told me that if I do insist on going ahead with the divorce then we should work this out in a conciliatory fashion and I must not "overbroke" the situation. I asked what he meant and he said don't push for too much because that will cause tension.
He also went on about how the kids are likely to blame him and that is why he wants to stay around. He says he is going to be the entertainment Dad at the weekends now so it is important for him to see as much of them as possible. (Although I don't know how that will work because he has always left before they get up and arrived after bedtime).
He is refusing to tell the kids about the divorce as he still wants to save our marriage. Unfortunately, this is becoming really awkward for me because I have a very open relationship with my kids and have started asking me lots of questions eg why do I sleep in the spare room? do divorced people get back together?
I am finding it really hard to deal with him as Mr Nice. Why is being so lovely now? It is making me feel guilty, melodramatic and mean. I found it much easier when I felt angry at him.
The divorce petition arrived when I was away. He said he is very sorry this is happening, that he loves me very much and I am making a really big mistake. The covering letter asked him to move out to his parents' place but he says he wants to stay around to be a "proper father" to the boys for as long as he can. There is no need for things between us to be unpleasant or tense.
He was all nice, saying how he wants to deal with this in a conciliatory fashion but he thinks that my solicitors are very aggressive. He told me that if I do insist on going ahead with the divorce then we should work this out in a conciliatory fashion and I must not "overbroke" the situation. I asked what he meant and he said don't push for too much because that will cause tension.
He also went on about how the kids are likely to blame him and that is why he wants to stay around. He says he is going to be the entertainment Dad at the weekends now so it is important for him to see as much of them as possible. (Although I don't know how that will work because he has always left before they get up and arrived after bedtime).
He is refusing to tell the kids about the divorce as he still wants to save our marriage. Unfortunately, this is becoming really awkward for me because I have a very open relationship with my kids and have started asking me lots of questions eg why do I sleep in the spare room? do divorced people get back together?
I am finding it really hard to deal with him as Mr Nice. Why is being so lovely now? It is making me feel guilty, melodramatic and mean. I found it much easier when I felt angry at him.
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Location: Atlanta
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(((whatamess)))- most likely, he's being "Mr. Nice" because you've finally had enough, have filed for divorce, and he wants you to reconsider..he doesn't want to face the consequences of his drinking.
I say this as a recovering addict and a recovering codependent. People get used to things as they are, whether it's the addiction or codependency. When we start taking care of ourselves, start giving them the dignity to live their life as they choose? They get scared, they suddenly become the person you wish they'd been all along.
In my experience, it never lasts. They may not always be aware of it, but it's manipulation.
As far as telling the kids? You've always had an open relationship with them and they need one parent they can trust in, and that's you. If he doesn't like you telling them? Tough...another consequence of his actions. He wants to stay around a be a proper parent NOW? After you've filed for a divorce? He can still do that...from his parents place.
You're taking care of you and the kids, and he is not liking it. If he wants to be a nice guy and a good parent, see how he does when he's forced to face his consequences. He may do it..sometimes that's enough to snap on the lightbulb in our addictive brains that "whoa, I need to get my self together and into recovery". Unfortunately, for others it's another excuse to drink/use...and blame it on you or whoever didn't do what they want.
Sorry if I sound negative, I've just been through this a lot, and it's totally my personal ES&H.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I say this as a recovering addict and a recovering codependent. People get used to things as they are, whether it's the addiction or codependency. When we start taking care of ourselves, start giving them the dignity to live their life as they choose? They get scared, they suddenly become the person you wish they'd been all along.
In my experience, it never lasts. They may not always be aware of it, but it's manipulation.
As far as telling the kids? You've always had an open relationship with them and they need one parent they can trust in, and that's you. If he doesn't like you telling them? Tough...another consequence of his actions. He wants to stay around a be a proper parent NOW? After you've filed for a divorce? He can still do that...from his parents place.
You're taking care of you and the kids, and he is not liking it. If he wants to be a nice guy and a good parent, see how he does when he's forced to face his consequences. He may do it..sometimes that's enough to snap on the lightbulb in our addictive brains that "whoa, I need to get my self together and into recovery". Unfortunately, for others it's another excuse to drink/use...and blame it on you or whoever didn't do what they want.
Sorry if I sound negative, I've just been through this a lot, and it's totally my personal ES&H.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
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It's called manipulation. He wants you off guard. He wants you to agree to work this out amicably, but, if you don't, look out! Mr. Nice Guy will disappear if you stay your course and continue with the divorce using the attorneys you already have. Not only is he attempting to manipulate you, he is planning to manipulate your children, too. He as much as told you so. Be careful. He is not really Mr. Nice Guy. He is Mr. Manipulation and will turn into Mr. Hyde if he doesn't get what he wants.
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It would also be helpful to consider that perhaps he is being extra nice because he wants the kids to blame you for all this. Too little too late, but if they see him being all nice and a great dad and all this other stuff, they may not understand what you did or why you did it. He may be trying to get them on his side, and sadly, even though that is never the way we want it, that is the way it always is-the kids will choose a side, which parent is right/wrong, fun/boring, nice/mean, etc.
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Can you force a separation through the court until the divorce is final, if yes I would call your lawyer on Monday and tell him to proceed with spearation, temporary custody, and temporary child and spousal support agreements, visitation etc.
You say you a wobbling, that is exactly what he wants, the more you wobble the better his plan works, he is going to be like a tick, while you are not paying attention, he is digging in.
IMO, tell him, I am telling the kids about the divorce tomorrow after dinner, be here or steer clear, but do not attempt to interfere (now how is that for a rhyme).
Don't let him push this off while he calculates how to make you the bad person in this.
Please make a list of all you have been through, and consult it as necessary to maintain your laser like focus on the target.
If you need moral support I will make sure to be on here until late tonight at least 2AM US Central Time.
You say you a wobbling, that is exactly what he wants, the more you wobble the better his plan works, he is going to be like a tick, while you are not paying attention, he is digging in.
IMO, tell him, I am telling the kids about the divorce tomorrow after dinner, be here or steer clear, but do not attempt to interfere (now how is that for a rhyme).
Don't let him push this off while he calculates how to make you the bad person in this.
Please make a list of all you have been through, and consult it as necessary to maintain your laser like focus on the target.
If you need moral support I will make sure to be on here until late tonight at least 2AM US Central Time.
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Originally Posted by Willybluedog 
Don't let him push this off while he calculates how to make you the bad person in this.
Please make a list of all you have been through, and consult it as necessary to maintain your laser like focus on the target.
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London
Posts: 42
Thanks for your messages. They are helping me to find the strength I need.
I think you are right ... he is being manipulative. I can't see him staying calm for long once we start talking about the finances and the practicalities of divorce. Time will tell.
In the meantime, I do need to tell the kids but I was really hoping to do this with him. I think it would be better for the kids to have both of us there when they are told. I have no intention of trying to blame him. No matter what I think about his behaviour it is important that they have their own relationship with him.
Tomorrow I will print out a list of all the "highlights" from over the years and keep it close to keep reminding me why I am doing this. Thanks for the suggestion Willybluedog.
I think you are right ... he is being manipulative. I can't see him staying calm for long once we start talking about the finances and the practicalities of divorce. Time will tell.
In the meantime, I do need to tell the kids but I was really hoping to do this with him. I think it would be better for the kids to have both of us there when they are told. I have no intention of trying to blame him. No matter what I think about his behaviour it is important that they have their own relationship with him.
Tomorrow I will print out a list of all the "highlights" from over the years and keep it close to keep reminding me why I am doing this. Thanks for the suggestion Willybluedog.
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Just an FYI - You don't have to discuss anything about the finances and practicalities of divorce. That is why you have an attorney. Let the attorneys hash it out. I would do as Willie suggested and get the ball started to getting him out of the house ASAP. Divorce is hard enough without having to live with the person you are divorcing, especially when they are manipulative and vindictive.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
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good work getting the divorce petition delivered.
you know, he's really not being mr. nice.
a really nice person would respect your wishes and move out.
a really nice person would not minimize your very valid desire to be honest with your children.
a really nice person would move out and give you the space you need at this difficult time.
a really nice person would say i am so sorry for what i have done to our family, i'm going to get some help so i can be a better father.
a really nice person would want to make sure that you and the children are financially secure.
a really nice person wouldn't let you move into the spare room...they would.
he's not being nice. he's digging in his heels and refusing to respect your wishes. he's also threatening you, in a subtle way with this "overbroke" stuff. essentially, he's saying he'll be nice as long as you back off and don't go for what is rightfully yours in the divorce.
i would consult your lawyer and file for temporary custudy and separation and get their advice on how to get him out of the house.
hold firm and just keep doing "the next right thing" for yourself and your children. you are saving yourself and them from growing up in an alcoholic home and all the damage that comes with it. you are doing the right thing. press on. if you feel yourself wobbling, go over and read the ACOA forum to remind yourself why you need to protect your children.
i understand how difficult this is but it is not something that you are doing on a whim. he's already moved out for a period, you took him back and he went back to drinking. that is most likely what will happen again if you back down. you know that. and then that sickness will return to the house for all of you and none will be spared. alcoholism will take the whole family down.
just keep your eye on the light at the end of the tunnel: a happy, peaceful future exists for you and your children.
we're here all the way with you
you know, he's really not being mr. nice.
a really nice person would respect your wishes and move out.
a really nice person would not minimize your very valid desire to be honest with your children.
a really nice person would move out and give you the space you need at this difficult time.
a really nice person would say i am so sorry for what i have done to our family, i'm going to get some help so i can be a better father.
a really nice person would want to make sure that you and the children are financially secure.
a really nice person wouldn't let you move into the spare room...they would.
he's not being nice. he's digging in his heels and refusing to respect your wishes. he's also threatening you, in a subtle way with this "overbroke" stuff. essentially, he's saying he'll be nice as long as you back off and don't go for what is rightfully yours in the divorce.
i would consult your lawyer and file for temporary custudy and separation and get their advice on how to get him out of the house.
hold firm and just keep doing "the next right thing" for yourself and your children. you are saving yourself and them from growing up in an alcoholic home and all the damage that comes with it. you are doing the right thing. press on. if you feel yourself wobbling, go over and read the ACOA forum to remind yourself why you need to protect your children.
i understand how difficult this is but it is not something that you are doing on a whim. he's already moved out for a period, you took him back and he went back to drinking. that is most likely what will happen again if you back down. you know that. and then that sickness will return to the house for all of you and none will be spared. alcoholism will take the whole family down.
just keep your eye on the light at the end of the tunnel: a happy, peaceful future exists for you and your children.
we're here all the way with you
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Yes Naive!! Yes.
I hope you listen to Naive WAM. I know this stage of the game is very hard, I've fallen for it myself. It's so hard to put those, "Oh LOOK!!! He's finally come around," feelings aside.
I would print out what Naive has written and read them every hour, out loud. Her wise words validate you, your needs and feelings, and the needs of your family. I mean, ****, you've finally found your voice, finally found your strength and all your getting from AH is more manipulation.
I bet he's totally freaked out. That's the only way he's able to keep it together this way and appear like he's had some kind of revelation.
Of course, he is having a revelation. He's realizing you're not ******* around anymore.
But why give up what you've worked so hard for without any actual change? At this point, it's just words.
I might even tell him how wonderful it is that he's realized these things, and nice-like give him Naive's list.
Reiterate your needs and boundaries, then see what he does.
You're on your way to freedom, Girl. You and your children. Good luck, I"m glad you're still here..
I hope you listen to Naive WAM. I know this stage of the game is very hard, I've fallen for it myself. It's so hard to put those, "Oh LOOK!!! He's finally come around," feelings aside.
I would print out what Naive has written and read them every hour, out loud. Her wise words validate you, your needs and feelings, and the needs of your family. I mean, ****, you've finally found your voice, finally found your strength and all your getting from AH is more manipulation.
I bet he's totally freaked out. That's the only way he's able to keep it together this way and appear like he's had some kind of revelation.
Of course, he is having a revelation. He's realizing you're not ******* around anymore.
But why give up what you've worked so hard for without any actual change? At this point, it's just words.
I might even tell him how wonderful it is that he's realized these things, and nice-like give him Naive's list.
Reiterate your needs and boundaries, then see what he does.
You're on your way to freedom, Girl. You and your children. Good luck, I"m glad you're still here..
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My experience for what it's worth: When I first asked AH to move out and contacted a lawyer, I got the same speech as you. I agreed, instead of going fwd with a divorce initially, to go to a mediator together and do a legal separation. Fast fwd 6+ months and all that got me was a) a lot more debt b) a lot of arguing c) a lot of hearthache d) a lot of manipulation.
An addict can not participate in a divorce in a cooperative manner (no matter what he says). My AH told me that if I insisted on doing this in a non-mediation way (meaning letting the lawyers deal with it alone) that I was harming our kids by spending excessive money needlessly. I let him guilt me into trying mediation not once but THREE times. Waste of time and money each time.
Stick with your plan. Believe everyone here who is telling you that he is trying to manipulate-- he is. It's hard to believe when they are behaving so nicely-- helping with the kids, sober, being decent etc... It will last only as long as he thinks it will convince you to do something different...
Stick to your guns... Your initial plan is a wise one...
An addict can not participate in a divorce in a cooperative manner (no matter what he says). My AH told me that if I insisted on doing this in a non-mediation way (meaning letting the lawyers deal with it alone) that I was harming our kids by spending excessive money needlessly. I let him guilt me into trying mediation not once but THREE times. Waste of time and money each time.
Stick with your plan. Believe everyone here who is telling you that he is trying to manipulate-- he is. It's hard to believe when they are behaving so nicely-- helping with the kids, sober, being decent etc... It will last only as long as he thinks it will convince you to do something different...
Stick to your guns... Your initial plan is a wise one...
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Posts: 42
You guys are really the only thing keeping me going at the moment. I know I just have to keep taking one step at a time but boy this is hard! Thanks to all of you.
Today, I dropped off some sensitive legal documents with the solicitors so they stay safe, I almost completed my financial information form and I drove around an area I might move to (or might not now I have seen it!).
I also rang my Mum who is being an absolute rock. It turns out my FIL rang her last night for over an hour to try to persuade her to persuade me to give AH one last chance! He obviously knows that I won't be bullied by him so he is trying to get to me via my Mum. He doesn't seem to realise or accept that I gave my AH one last chance and he messed up. Luckily for me, my mother refused to get involved, said it was up to me but that the drinking had been a problem for years and I had given AH many chances already. The ironic thing is, the more my FIL tries to get involved, the more it cements in my mind that I am doing the right thing. Weird isn't it?!
Your comments help me to see the manipulation for what it really is. I think this is going to be quite a journey for me, so if you have time, please stick by me and continue to help me along the way.
Best wishes to all of you.
Today, I dropped off some sensitive legal documents with the solicitors so they stay safe, I almost completed my financial information form and I drove around an area I might move to (or might not now I have seen it!).
I also rang my Mum who is being an absolute rock. It turns out my FIL rang her last night for over an hour to try to persuade her to persuade me to give AH one last chance! He obviously knows that I won't be bullied by him so he is trying to get to me via my Mum. He doesn't seem to realise or accept that I gave my AH one last chance and he messed up. Luckily for me, my mother refused to get involved, said it was up to me but that the drinking had been a problem for years and I had given AH many chances already. The ironic thing is, the more my FIL tries to get involved, the more it cements in my mind that I am doing the right thing. Weird isn't it?!
Your comments help me to see the manipulation for what it really is. I think this is going to be quite a journey for me, so if you have time, please stick by me and continue to help me along the way.
Best wishes to all of you.
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 31,179
(((whatamess))) - just my thought, but maybe FIL is working so hard at getting you to give AH another chance, is because he knows if YOU don't, his son will be back at HIS house and he doesn't want to deal with it?
I think you're doing great. I know this has to be incredibly hard, but you are taking steps to keep moving forward.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I think you're doing great. I know this has to be incredibly hard, but you are taking steps to keep moving forward.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Just reading this is giving me chills.
You're doing an amazing, amazing thing. Standing up for yourself.
Recognizing that your needs and wants are valid.
Being honest, truthful.
This one's for you Girl. Keep standing tall and being true to yourself
George Michael - Freedom! '90 - YouTube
All we have to do now
Is take these lies and make them true somehow
You're doing an amazing, amazing thing. Standing up for yourself.
Recognizing that your needs and wants are valid.
Being honest, truthful.
This one's for you Girl. Keep standing tall and being true to yourself
George Michael - Freedom! '90 - YouTube
All we have to do now
Is take these lies and make them true somehow
Last edited by transformyself; 02-20-2012 at 08:47 AM. Reason: improper contraction
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Posts: 447
I apologize if I'm being redundant. I didn't read the other replies.
You have filed. You have an attorney.
and now....after everything...he is trying to convince you that he is WORTH having around, as "a proper father".
um....has he been a proper father up til now? NO.
Has he put his kids in jeapordy...you bet he has.
Do you honestly believe that a piece of paper will make him change? NOPE.
Maybe, just maybe...if receiving the petition sent him running for rehab or a program...I personally would CONSIDER waiting it out...
but it didn't.
It turned him into the Mr nice of his personality in order to get you to stay....and he will stay nice....just long enough to convince you that you NEED him, your kids NEED him...that all will be glitter and rainbows...and you'll get comfortable..and WHAM!!!
He'll be up to his old self in no time.
Tell the kids. Warn them it may be nasty (if they are at an age where they understand what is going on)...and do what it takes to protect them. Emotionally, financially and physically...because it's going to be a rough ride til you get him out of your home and maybe for awhile after that too.
You have filed. You have an attorney.
and now....after everything...he is trying to convince you that he is WORTH having around, as "a proper father".
um....has he been a proper father up til now? NO.
Has he put his kids in jeapordy...you bet he has.
Do you honestly believe that a piece of paper will make him change? NOPE.
Maybe, just maybe...if receiving the petition sent him running for rehab or a program...I personally would CONSIDER waiting it out...
but it didn't.
It turned him into the Mr nice of his personality in order to get you to stay....and he will stay nice....just long enough to convince you that you NEED him, your kids NEED him...that all will be glitter and rainbows...and you'll get comfortable..and WHAM!!!
He'll be up to his old self in no time.
Tell the kids. Warn them it may be nasty (if they are at an age where they understand what is going on)...and do what it takes to protect them. Emotionally, financially and physically...because it's going to be a rough ride til you get him out of your home and maybe for awhile after that too.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,059
FIL doesn't seem to realise or accept that I gave my AH one last chance and he messed up.
perhaps ask your mother to keep the conversation short with FIL. she could merely say something like "this is between the two of them and none of our businesss". or, you could ask her to block his phone number.
this situation might escalate and get ugly. please take steps to protect yourself. it would be best to have an emergency bag ready, with some cash, a pay as you go mobile, any meds, spare car keys and a piece of paper with account details and important phone numbers.
remember, he's an alcoholic and he's under pressure. there is some chance that one of these days, he's going to come home very drunk and angry. have a plan for this. be prepared. where would you go should you and the children need to leave immediately? your mothers? a hotel? a friend's house? you could always prepare your bag and store it at this location.
i would also get important documents out of the house and stored somewhere else...things like you and the children's passports, birth certificates, etc.
remember the 5 Ps: prior planning prevents poor performance!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: London
Posts: 42
I think the scales are beginning to fall from my eyes...
Last night I asked AH if he would kindly leave the house in 3 weekends time for a couple of days because we have old friends visiting who I haven't seen in ages. He said he would have to think about it because he is away at a Stag do this weekend and a wedding the following weekend (which I agreed not to go to) so he said he needs to make sure he is seeing enough of the boys. I told him I needed a reply and he said he would get back to me tomorrow.
I also spoke to him about telling the kids and he still wouldn't agree. When I said that I would leave it a bit longer but if he continued to avoid it I would do it on my own, he told me I was bullying him.
Anyway, this morning I had a bit of a revelation. AH will not agree to anything I suggest, ever. For example, we still don't have curtains after living in our house for 2.5 years, because he won't agree on the fabric, I am not allowed to choose on my own and he refuses to suggest anything! Yet, when I take decisions on my own he becomes furious and tells me that I didn't ask his permission.
What has dawned on me is that most things are on his terms. The only things that aren't are the things where I have really kicked up a stink (like running the finances because he kept getting in debt). He is Mr Nice when things go his way but he hates to be disagreed with. Somehow, he manages to twist it round and has convinced me that I am controlling and unreasonable. But, I am beginning to think I have actually been a bit of a doormat. AH gets to go out whenever he wants whilst I stay at home with the kids. If I say I want to go out he won't "guarantee" he can be back in time. He is outraged if I work, he is outraged if I stop working. etc etc
Rant over.
Anyway, it suddenly makes sense why he won't agree to the divorce - because I initiated it. I think I am going to have a real battle on my hands.
Time to go and pack my emergency bag!
Last night I asked AH if he would kindly leave the house in 3 weekends time for a couple of days because we have old friends visiting who I haven't seen in ages. He said he would have to think about it because he is away at a Stag do this weekend and a wedding the following weekend (which I agreed not to go to) so he said he needs to make sure he is seeing enough of the boys. I told him I needed a reply and he said he would get back to me tomorrow.
I also spoke to him about telling the kids and he still wouldn't agree. When I said that I would leave it a bit longer but if he continued to avoid it I would do it on my own, he told me I was bullying him.
Anyway, this morning I had a bit of a revelation. AH will not agree to anything I suggest, ever. For example, we still don't have curtains after living in our house for 2.5 years, because he won't agree on the fabric, I am not allowed to choose on my own and he refuses to suggest anything! Yet, when I take decisions on my own he becomes furious and tells me that I didn't ask his permission.
What has dawned on me is that most things are on his terms. The only things that aren't are the things where I have really kicked up a stink (like running the finances because he kept getting in debt). He is Mr Nice when things go his way but he hates to be disagreed with. Somehow, he manages to twist it round and has convinced me that I am controlling and unreasonable. But, I am beginning to think I have actually been a bit of a doormat. AH gets to go out whenever he wants whilst I stay at home with the kids. If I say I want to go out he won't "guarantee" he can be back in time. He is outraged if I work, he is outraged if I stop working. etc etc
Rant over.
Anyway, it suddenly makes sense why he won't agree to the divorce - because I initiated it. I think I am going to have a real battle on my hands.
Time to go and pack my emergency bag!
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