Judged by AA Extremists? Have to say it
Grateful AA member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the middle of the woods, NJ
Posts: 567
Judged by AA Extremists? Have to say it
Down the road, through my own writing I want to advocate for those who suffer from a dual diagnosis of mental illness and addiction. Reading the backlash from those judging Whitney Houston or Amy Winehouse because of their problems with addiction ill have to say it pisses me off. Many of those who have never suffered from mental illness or addiction slap labels on those who do so many of us are afraid to share with others our struggles with depression, anxiety, alcoholism, drug addiction etc...It scares them maybe they will catch it or something. Personally, ive heard due to my depression and anxiety diagnosis "its all in your head get over it" "stop t hinking about it and it will go away" "stop feeling sorry for yourself". The list goes on but God forbid I made it known to others I was committed over a month ago for depression and binge drinking id have another nice label slapped on me.
I have noticed, and this is a reason why I am uncomfortable expressing my feelings to other alcoholics or attending AA meetings because of the extremists who have years of sobriety under their belts and believe its their way is the only way. For example, at one meeting one woman walked up to me after the meeting and asked why I did not call myself an "alcoholic" I responded I dont label myself thats why. She told me I was in denial and I was an alcoholic. I was pretty angry, its very personal to me and the only person who has the right to define me is myself. I am speaking about all labels in general even my mental health diagnosis.
Ive heard a lot of **** about being on antidepressants and anti anxiety medications. They actually do help some of us from falling into the pits of depression taking away thed desire to kill ourselves. Some AA extremists who believe addicts should stay free from all pills. Well, I was put on an anti depressant in the hospital and now I am no longer drinking Ive been dealing with PTSD so my psychiatrist put me on one 1mg of Ativan take as needed. Holy **** did I take a beating for that! If I am suffering from debilitating anxiety from my past who has the right to tell me what I should or should not take. Yes, benzos can be extremely dangerous however my psychiatrist and therapist are carefully monitoring me on this medication. He gave me a script for thirty pills a few weeks ago which I stilll have more than half left. Before I left his office he told me he would see me in eight weeks and I left with an new script of Ativan 15 pills of 1 mg take half when needed. If I called him and asked for a refill once they were gone he would deny it.
My point is no one has the right to dictate to someone else what they SHOULD be doing. Those of us who suffer from mental health problems and are closely monitored under the care of doctors should not receive any backlash from those who believe any sort of drugs are the "devil". Let our doctors who I am sure are pretty aware of addicted behaviors be the judge of what we can or cant take. I am not pro medication but some of these pills actually help us live "normal" lives instead of sitting at home wallowing in our own misery. So before anyone judges realize we are all different and until you have a PhD in psychology or an MD in Psychiatry let the mental health professionals do their jobs.
I have noticed, and this is a reason why I am uncomfortable expressing my feelings to other alcoholics or attending AA meetings because of the extremists who have years of sobriety under their belts and believe its their way is the only way. For example, at one meeting one woman walked up to me after the meeting and asked why I did not call myself an "alcoholic" I responded I dont label myself thats why. She told me I was in denial and I was an alcoholic. I was pretty angry, its very personal to me and the only person who has the right to define me is myself. I am speaking about all labels in general even my mental health diagnosis.
Ive heard a lot of **** about being on antidepressants and anti anxiety medications. They actually do help some of us from falling into the pits of depression taking away thed desire to kill ourselves. Some AA extremists who believe addicts should stay free from all pills. Well, I was put on an anti depressant in the hospital and now I am no longer drinking Ive been dealing with PTSD so my psychiatrist put me on one 1mg of Ativan take as needed. Holy **** did I take a beating for that! If I am suffering from debilitating anxiety from my past who has the right to tell me what I should or should not take. Yes, benzos can be extremely dangerous however my psychiatrist and therapist are carefully monitoring me on this medication. He gave me a script for thirty pills a few weeks ago which I stilll have more than half left. Before I left his office he told me he would see me in eight weeks and I left with an new script of Ativan 15 pills of 1 mg take half when needed. If I called him and asked for a refill once they were gone he would deny it.
My point is no one has the right to dictate to someone else what they SHOULD be doing. Those of us who suffer from mental health problems and are closely monitored under the care of doctors should not receive any backlash from those who believe any sort of drugs are the "devil". Let our doctors who I am sure are pretty aware of addicted behaviors be the judge of what we can or cant take. I am not pro medication but some of these pills actually help us live "normal" lives instead of sitting at home wallowing in our own misery. So before anyone judges realize we are all different and until you have a PhD in psychology or an MD in Psychiatry let the mental health professionals do their jobs.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,095
I think you'll find all kinds of people attending AA meetings, Innerchild. You're correct, know one has the 'power' to tell you what to do and make it stick, but a lot of people are going to express their opinions to you in a public place.
I encourage you to discriminate between those opinions and the actual content of the program of AA contained in the Big Book. As regards medications, the BB encourages us to seek outside, expert guidance on those issues. There is also an AA pamphlet that deals directly with AA's view on medications.
One of the great things about how AA's program is presented, is the respect it affords the newcomer. The whole program is presented in the BB in the form of 'Here is what we have done, here is what we have found." It's not a 'here is what you have to do' kind of program. You can decide for yourself if you are an alcoholic like the kind described in the BB. A sponsor can help with this. Then and only then, you can decide if you want, or need, to do what we have done to recover.
I encourage you to discriminate between those opinions and the actual content of the program of AA contained in the Big Book. As regards medications, the BB encourages us to seek outside, expert guidance on those issues. There is also an AA pamphlet that deals directly with AA's view on medications.
One of the great things about how AA's program is presented, is the respect it affords the newcomer. The whole program is presented in the BB in the form of 'Here is what we have done, here is what we have found." It's not a 'here is what you have to do' kind of program. You can decide for yourself if you are an alcoholic like the kind described in the BB. A sponsor can help with this. Then and only then, you can decide if you want, or need, to do what we have done to recover.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,497
I don't talk to people in my life about my recovery, because it is an intensely personal journey for me. Also, allowing myself to be labelled and judged through my life, was a big cause of my downfall.
I also suffer with depression/anxiety since childhood and I needed to get that properly treated before I could recover. This levels the playing field for me and I still need to be careful to not fall down the rabbit hole.
I also suffer with depression/anxiety since childhood and I needed to get that properly treated before I could recover. This levels the playing field for me and I still need to be careful to not fall down the rabbit hole.
sobriety date 5-2-12
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Midwest
Posts: 903
My therapist told me I might encounter such people at AA- so far I haven't. He told me to ignore what they say. I am on Prozac and without it I'd be dead. Plain and Simple. I also have a history of eating disorders along with depression and addiction. I am just a whole bag of fun, and without modern pharmacuticals I never would have made it to the ripe old age of 36 
Grateful AA member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the middle of the woods, NJ
Posts: 567
I find that being on an antidepressant, weekly therapy appointments, and the support group for dual diagnosis depression and addiction I just started to attend are helpful. I like this group because we are able to speak about mental illness, struggles with addiction and receive feedback from other members of the group. There is no judgment if I dont call myself an alcoholic everytime I started my name. Where as in AA, I feel all eyes are piercing through me with looks of displeasure plastered all over their faces because I am in "denial" Thats not the case, I refuse to label myself because I grew up with being labeled.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bethlehem, PA.
Posts: 1,781
Innerchild, expecting a person who has never been through the depths of anxiety/depression to understand is a very tall order. Whenever you subject yourself to a group setting, even these forums, you're going to get all kinds of opinions and you just have to take some of them with a grain of salt. I know it's hard but sometimes you have to just let such things go in one ear and out the other.
sobriety date 5-2-12
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Midwest
Posts: 903
I must be lucky in that I have found no major faults in the AA groups which I have attended. Sometimes I add alcoholic/addict after my name, and days when I am in denile I don't. Everyone I have talked to is supportive and friendly. Have not found any extremists, yet. I am fortunate to have fallen in with this particular group. Now I just have to jump in and work the steps.
Grateful AA member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the middle of the woods, NJ
Posts: 567
Aeo, I have a history of eating disorders too. My therapist told me the same thing about the people I may encounter in AA so she and my psychiatrist recommended I attend the dual diagnosis meetings since everyone is on some type of med. I am grateful of my week stay in the hospital because I am now in an outpatient program of the hospital and receiving the support I needed because I could not treat my alcoholism without seeking treatment for depression. I am not thrown on a bunch of different meds and what I am on is being closely monitored. I ended up in the crisis unit about four times in less than a year and now I am starting to function without self medicating with alcohol.
Thanks Anna, I always felt I could relate to you.
Thanks Anna, I always felt I could relate to you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
I grew to expect constant criticism in 12-step programs and eventually figured out that the best way to get through was to keep quiet in meetings and share as little personal information as possible with group members.
Offering unwanted critiques of other people makes some group members feel secure. The sad part is that these are usually (in my experience) the only people who feel motivated to talk to new people at meetings.
But if you find AA is helping you, you have to keep going and not let the idiots keep you away.
Offering unwanted critiques of other people makes some group members feel secure. The sad part is that these are usually (in my experience) the only people who feel motivated to talk to new people at meetings.
But if you find AA is helping you, you have to keep going and not let the idiots keep you away.
Grateful AA member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the middle of the woods, NJ
Posts: 567
But fella, why should we keep quiet in the meetings because we are trying to seek help too just because our method of coping does not meet the approval of others. Arent we supposed to be honest? If I walked into an AA group and admitted my Psychiatrist gave me a script of Ativan to help deal with my PTSD issues even though I am not abusing it and have no desire to I would have people throwing daggers of disgust at me.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto
Posts: 443
I also suffer from anxiety/depression and addiction...with me they seem to be intertwined. Thankfully, everyone with whom I share that with is very supportive and WANT me to take my meds because they know if I stop, relapse is inevitable. Thats been a big problem these last few years. Ignore the nay sayers InnerChild and stay strong.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Newburgh
Posts: 868
I know how you feel innerchild, I'm in outpatient treatment for anx. and depression now. People who have never had it at the level we experience it don't get it and I don't expect them to. Just like people who aren't addicts or alcoholics don't understand why we do what we do to ourselves.
I think many of those AAs are just trying to be helpful in their own awkward way, and some are just plain clueless.
Stick to your guns and YOUR program, be open with your doc and sponser and yourself. You'll be just fine.
God bless.
I think many of those AAs are just trying to be helpful in their own awkward way, and some are just plain clueless.
Stick to your guns and YOUR program, be open with your doc and sponser and yourself. You'll be just fine.
God bless.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
Innerchild -- I eventually left 12-step programs because I felt that I could not be honest in these programs. For me going was a pledge that I would not use. I also felt that if I could withstand all the fear, anxiety, and sadness that I felt in meetings, that I would help me withstand the feelings outside that made me feel it was inevitable to use. And I do think meetings did toughen me up, which I needed at the time. But eventually I felt I needed to be honest and open with about what I was going through, so I had to move on.
But other people here have said that they actually enjoy meetings and find the program liberating. They should stick with it (I think). I suspect (from what I read here) that a lot has to do with one's sponsor.
But other people here have said that they actually enjoy meetings and find the program liberating. They should stick with it (I think). I suspect (from what I read here) that a lot has to do with one's sponsor.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
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Originally Posted by Innerchild 
... at one meeting one woman walked up to me after the meeting and asked why I did not call myself an "alcoholic" I responded I dont label myself thats why. She told me I was in denial and I was an alcoholic. I was pretty angry...
JFT: Why didn't you call yourself an alcoholic?
Me: I don't label myself that way.
JFT: You're an alcoholic, you're just in denial.
Me: And you don't know right from wrong, you're just in denial.
JFT: What do you mean by that?
Me: I mean, is it right or wrong for you to drink again?
JFT: It's not a matter of right and wrong, and I can't know if I will drink again, I only stay sober one-day-at-a-time.
Me: If it's not wrong for you to drink, then why did you stop drinking?
JFT: It was destroying my life, and that of others...
Me: Then wouldn't you say it is wrong for you to drink?
JFT: You could say that.
Me: So, are you going to drink again or not?
JFT: I can't know that, I only stay sober one-day-at-a-time.
Me: So, even though it is wrong for you to drink again, you might still drink again?
JFT: I can't know if I will drink tomorrow, I only stay sober for today.
Me: In other words, you don't know right from wrong. Why should I care what someone who doesn't know right from wrong thinks about me, or about what I should do?
JFT: Angry Silence... walks away...
dopeless hope fiend
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Here. Now.
Posts: 1,021
AA has no opinion on outside matters. The people in AA are an entirely different matter. Mileage varies. There are self-righteous and judgemental people in all walks of life.
I have a real problem with people who project their opinions onto other people inside meetings. It is particularly dangerous when people spread their ignorance concerning medication and mental illness. in my experience those with the strongest opinions about such things don't suffer from mental illness or have to take prescription narcotics. Go figure. We're supposed to share our experience, strength, and hope, not opine about subjects that we have no training and little knowledge of. I've found NA to be generally more understanding of such things, probably because the people are generally younger and experienced with drugs, and there is a section in the book concerning medication. But there are ignorant 12-step nazis in NA around me too.
I just keep my sharing to the topic of recovery and take my personal **** to my sponsor and friends. When i'm really hurting i'll share whatever i feel i need to, and if people want to contradict or put me down that's their freaking problem. The rooms are far from perfect but i need to be there, and nobody for any reason is going to run me out of my seat.
I have a real problem with people who project their opinions onto other people inside meetings. It is particularly dangerous when people spread their ignorance concerning medication and mental illness. in my experience those with the strongest opinions about such things don't suffer from mental illness or have to take prescription narcotics. Go figure. We're supposed to share our experience, strength, and hope, not opine about subjects that we have no training and little knowledge of. I've found NA to be generally more understanding of such things, probably because the people are generally younger and experienced with drugs, and there is a section in the book concerning medication. But there are ignorant 12-step nazis in NA around me too.
I just keep my sharing to the topic of recovery and take my personal **** to my sponsor and friends. When i'm really hurting i'll share whatever i feel i need to, and if people want to contradict or put me down that's their freaking problem. The rooms are far from perfect but i need to be there, and nobody for any reason is going to run me out of my seat.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
Posts: 8,997
Nicely put augustwest...I was going to say...Half the people in my HG are Alcoholics/Addicts....I've heard it shared in meetings that if you are on prescribed medication...Stay on it than not....There are all kinds of people in the rooms...Kind of like there are all kinds of people in the bars I used to hang out in. Funny how that works.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,964
Most of the people at a certain group/meeting (every day at 7 am these people are there and on Sunday it's at 8 at another location---same people 7 days a week) are "dually diagnosed" as they've mentioned their specific personal situation at some point....
Funny thing is that these people rarely attend the one Dual Diagnosis meeting on Saturday at 5. I guess they are avoiding being labelled?
Every person I know has an opinion. Most let you know what it is. I listen and move on. Then I talk with my sponsor.
I prefer meetings that stick with the solution (the steps) and not attempt to act as group therapy sessions. That stuff is what I keep with my doctor, my sponsor, and my small (intimate-people who know me well) network. I speak in a general way in a meeting and try to stick with the solution.
paul-m-60yearannchicago200732.mp3 xa-speakers.org it's a speaker tape
Cool 60th Anniversary with several speakers. One guy said something like "Alcoholism has little to do with drinking. Drinking was the answer to alcoholism." I'll listen again.
Leave those people's opinions alone, they aren't doctors or judges (okay, some of them are when they are at their work).
Stick with your doctor(s) and follow what path you need with any medications.
Remember we talk in a general way at a meeting. Keep the intimate details with your sponsor and network.
Keep staying stopped!!
Funny thing is that these people rarely attend the one Dual Diagnosis meeting on Saturday at 5. I guess they are avoiding being labelled?
Every person I know has an opinion. Most let you know what it is. I listen and move on. Then I talk with my sponsor.
I prefer meetings that stick with the solution (the steps) and not attempt to act as group therapy sessions. That stuff is what I keep with my doctor, my sponsor, and my small (intimate-people who know me well) network. I speak in a general way in a meeting and try to stick with the solution.
paul-m-60yearannchicago200732.mp3 xa-speakers.org it's a speaker tape
Cool 60th Anniversary with several speakers. One guy said something like "Alcoholism has little to do with drinking. Drinking was the answer to alcoholism." I'll listen again.
Leave those people's opinions alone, they aren't doctors or judges (okay, some of them are when they are at their work).
Stick with your doctor(s) and follow what path you need with any medications.
Remember we talk in a general way at a meeting. Keep the intimate details with your sponsor and network.
Keep staying stopped!!
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada. About as far south as you can get
Posts: 4,768
Our programs are ultimately our own choice. My sponsor is my choice.
My whole life was my own choice and it got me to AA. I had to become teachable or I wouldn't/couldn't change.
There was about 25 people at the meeting last night, about 10 who I really like and respect.... a dozen or so I can take or leave.... and a small handful that make me pause when I enter the room because I really don't want to spend time with them. (I'm sure if you polled the attendees how they felt when they saw me come in, you would get about the same response).
Sitting and listening to the folks at the table (I have learned to be able to sit with ANYBODY for an hour) teaches me patience and tolerance and often I learn a good lesson from the very person I would have shunned.
I guess my point is "Don't let a few bad apples keep you out of the orchard". I need the orchard of recovery.
Innerchild, what does your sponsor advise you to do when these people upset you? My sponsor told me "Don't let them keep you from coming to your meetings".
The Serenity Prayer may help you come to terms with your group..
Wishing you the best.
Bob R
My whole life was my own choice and it got me to AA. I had to become teachable or I wouldn't/couldn't change.
There was about 25 people at the meeting last night, about 10 who I really like and respect.... a dozen or so I can take or leave.... and a small handful that make me pause when I enter the room because I really don't want to spend time with them. (I'm sure if you polled the attendees how they felt when they saw me come in, you would get about the same response).
Sitting and listening to the folks at the table (I have learned to be able to sit with ANYBODY for an hour) teaches me patience and tolerance and often I learn a good lesson from the very person I would have shunned.
I guess my point is "Don't let a few bad apples keep you out of the orchard". I need the orchard of recovery.
Innerchild, what does your sponsor advise you to do when these people upset you? My sponsor told me "Don't let them keep you from coming to your meetings".
The Serenity Prayer may help you come to terms with your group..
Wishing you the best.
Bob R
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