EveningRose

I'm pretty sure I've posted here before about anger.

I wish I could be rid of it.

It's funny (or not), I have recently divorced my husband in the wake of discovering he's spent our entire marriage lying and cheating and racking up massive debt behind my back. I have virtually no anger toward him. He is what he is. He pays his child support and is an active involved father. I'm looking toward the future with optimism.

But the anger just won't quite leave regarding my family. Some days I realize I haven't thought about them or felt it in weeks and think it's finally coming to an end. Then something happens that sets it off again.

This time, it was a few realizations all dovetailing around the lightning rod of my brother's wife giving birth. This is a brother and sil who have been snubbing me for years, telling me how to raise my children better (when they had none of their own), and letting me know that I'm just not quite good enough, who have stood by in the face of appalling tantrums aimed at me by another sibling and said nothing but been very quick to be on my back when I've muttered something under my breath with no one else around to hear it. (ie, double standards).

I haven't spoken to either of them in a couple of years. Not a single member of my family (parents or siblings) has acknowledged that I'm now divorced. Not a single one has called to say, "Are you okay?" in light of the fact that I'm now a single mother to an extremely large family.

But I know that if I don't say congratulations to my b and sil, I'll hear about it. If I do, they'll probably make snide comments behind my back anyway. In other words, I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't. (BTW, I did.)

But it makes me angry to once again know there are double standards, to realize that yet again, more is expected of me than they expect of any of themselves, and of course, to realize that these people are so hard-hearted they can't break the wall just a little bit to ask, "Are you okay?'

And of course, I'm pretty sure the reason they won't ask is because I said no to their bad behavior. It's to their benefit to believe my xh's version of the story that I'm crazy and made it all up, because then they can all agree yet again, together, that I am the bad one here, so none of them has to look at their own behavior.

But it still blows my mind that people could act this way.

And in the meantime, I'm stewing about it, realizing the reason I'm not 'getting over' the anger is because the re-injuries keep occurring. But I know I have to find a way to quit letting it get to me. To realize this is who they are and what they'll do and rise above it.

Willybluedog

So sorry, I know how it feels, my parents spents so much time saying "why can't you be more like your sister", "your wife is so hard to get to know" Code for B!#$H, "why don't you live closer", whe we lived 5 miles away they never visited, now we are 100 miles away and it's a big deal.

My therapist has been working with me on these same type of issues and she is trying to get me to realize that people are not going to be fair, and they are not going to be what I want them to be, and I have to come to grips with that, it's not their problem, it's mine.

It's not their problem because they don't give a flying crap about anyone but themselves, and wishing for them to change is just pointless.

So I have to say the serenity prayer, take some deep breaths, take a walk, and find other ways to make myself happy.

Sorry if I trampled in on a rant, I just wanted to share what I am doing to improve myself in a similar situation.

Big hugs and best of luck to you.

Bill

EveningRose

No, Bill, you didn't trample on a rant at all. I think we all need to know that we're not alone in dealing with these things.

I think what frustrates me is that I have successfully dealt with these emotions regarding my XH. Like you, I've accepted he is who he is, and gone on to find other ways of putting good in my life. I don't understand why I can't manage to do this regarding my parents and siblings. Those good things are still in my life, and in theory, I'm way too busy building those good things up into something even better to have time to worry about them. (And frankly, I don't need to be asked if I'm okay because I laid the groundwork well and am in a good position to care for all these kids and am very positive about the future.) But somehow, this sort of thing sneaks up, several things all at once, and I get knocked off track for a day or two, finding it hard to concentrate on my work.

I'll start saying the Serenity Prayer, although I already do a Bible reading every morning and pray quite a bit, including for my family. But maybe that specific one will help.

Plath

I went through an odd experience right before I gave birth to my son nine months ago.
I'm not sure how relevant my story is to your post, but I figured I would share my experience.

While I was pregnant I realized that, although I keep in touch with my family on a minimal basis, I have felt very abandoned by most of my family over the years (or in the case of my mother, just outright screwed up because of them). I have had a lot of resentment about that, along with the way that some of them treated me when I came back home for a while to take care of my grandma when she was dying (she was the only person in my life who ever gave me unconditional love, and I lived with her for a lot of my teenage years).

As I was getting ready to have my son (and although your brother has just recently had a baby, our roles seem to be kind of reversed in a way), I realized that not one single member of my family had sent a card, called, or even tried to invite me for a baby shower. No one. Except, oddly, my mom and dad.

I grew up close to my family, and although we have drifted apart, I finally just thought "That's it. I've had it with their total lack of concern for the big things that are going on in my life, I'm going to sever contact with them".

I figured that if they couldn't muster up the common decency to even call me to see how things were going (I didn't care about gifts or anything, just to know that they even cared at all), they weren't people I wanted in my life.

I mentioned this to my mom, and it may have been passive-aggressive or whatever, but it must have got back to them.

I received a call from my aunt, and after I didn't return the call (she left me a message to tell me that some mail had been delivered to my grandma's house, no mention of the fact that I was 8 months pregnant) she ended up sending me some neat hand-made gifts for my son, and calling to inquire how I was doing.

The end result has been that I've been able to maintain a reasonably healthy relationship with my family, and I think it was because I was willing to cut them out of my life if things didn't improve. I now talk on the phone with them more often (although it's sometimes a coin flip for how the conversation will go, but mostly it's good or at least reasonable), and we seem to be a bit closer than we were.

This is not always the case for everyone, but I think that sometimes we have to think to ourselves "is it even worth it for me to have these people in my life?"
And the question seems to kind of answer itself, I think.

I've had long-standing friendships where I've asked myself that question, and the answer was "NO".
It has created a lot of bitterness and resentment for me, but I have severed ties where and when I felt they needed to be severed, and kept the ones that have proven to be at least somehow redeeming.

I'm sorry that you're experiencing the situation you've described, but on some level I can relate, and I just thought I would share some of my story.

Best wishes to you, and I'm glad that you've laid a solid foundation for yourself.

dollydo

We have built in expectations about "what" a family should be and how we should be treated...because we're family.

That's not how it works, everyone has a different personality, a different mindset and because of that,not everyone is accepted on the same level as others.

My mother definately favors my brother, she is confrontational to me and I can never please her. I have given up trying, I spend as little time as possible with her, I dread having to see or talk to her. If she were not my mother and 86 years old I would have nothing to do with her. I did not speak to her 2 times in my life, once for 10 years another for 4 years. The happiest and most peaceful times of my adult life.

Sometimes, we just need to accept what will not change and move forward with our lives.

dothi

It sounds to me like you're justifiably angry, and you've got all the right pieces in front of you. It really doesn't sound like these people are capable of giving you as much courtesy and respect as they would a complete stranger. Now what can you do with that?

Very surprisingly, no one in my family of origin has had kids, so no pregnancy dramas. But it did hit me quite rudely in the face when in the last year, I hit my life-bottom. I don't do drugs and I'm not an alcoholic. But I lost my job, a relationship, and all the damage put in me by my family took a really hard toll on not just my mental health anymore, but my physical health as well. It felt like my body was forcing me to contend with the fact that having these people in my life is hurting me. Neither of my siblings nor my A-father even acknowledged what I was going through -- instead maintained that I was "making it up" and needed to snap out of it.

I didn't write or consent to this rule they seem to have agreed on that I must never show weakness or fail or else they withhold their version of love and support. It really is their double standard to maintain their equilibrium; and it is very clear that this is far more important than my actual health.

Not trying to railroad your situation with mine -- just wanted to share my sibling experience which may relate in general to yours. I cut everyone out but my mom last year, because only my mom has shown she is capable of having a reciprocating, adult relationship with me. The rest of them simply aren't. And because I still have my mental health to work on, I'm not prepared to buffer the BS, even on a casual basis because it's just too triggering for me.

You deserve to have people in your life who admire and respect you for how much you've persevered through. Every moment given to those who give you any less -- family or not -- is a moment stolen from you to feed their illusions of double-standards. Seriously, you deserve FAR BETTER. You deserve people who will be mindful of your emotional well-being, and the fact that they aren't such people does not make you unworthy of having that kind of support in your life. It's their sh*t; if you can help yourself, don't carry it anymore -- not EVEN for a moment.

EveningRose

Thank you, Plath. Your story raises all sorts of thoughts, which, unfortunately, I'm probably not going to get down in a very organized manner.

I, too, have felt abandoned repeatedly over the years. I remember an incident of being taken to my grandmother's home by my mother--something my dad had done, and I needed to get away. I remember lying on my grandmother's pull-out bed in the living room, in something like shock, unable to move, and my mother telling me to get up and lock the door or she'd have to wake my grandmother up to do it. It's strange that I can't remember what happened with my dad that night that was severe enough to warrant her taking me out of the house. But in later years, I have thought that she was in heavy denial, refusing to see how serious the situation was.

At age 18, my AF threatened so routinely to kick me out of the house (no, I wasn't causing trouble) that I finally left, and went through the paperwork to be declared financially independent, legally, so I could get college aid on my own income. The letter I remember AF sending in the wake of that was telling me all the things I needed to fix (one of the reasons this time around I simply blocked his e-mail rather than get that.) Anyway, my mother, as usual, did nothing about it. Talk about feeling abandoned.

At 23, he threw me on a bed and choked me. Again, she did and said nothing. I moved across the country, and there was a lot of pity-party stuff from them that I was somehow retaliating and trying to hurt them. Putting it down on paper (so to speak) helps me see how crazy it was, and how the blame game was going on even then--turning the tables, never addressing that he had physically assaulted me, and instead telling me I'm the bad one, trying to hurt other people.

As to the current situation, I already had severed contact with them, several years ago, so I have no doubt that once again, in their minds, this is my fault. I cut contact (although, technically I never told them I'm not speaking to you--I just quit calling and I think they knew deep down they'd screwed up and they never called me either, but sent invitations to Christmas, etc. by inviting the kids.) Anyway, to the point, I'm sure they figure I cut contact, therefore they're justified in ignoring me. And I think part of what I'm feeling is disgust, that these so-called adults could be so petty and continue to refuse, ever, to look at their part in any of this.

As usual, they're acting like this came out of a vacuum. I keep re-tracing the steps, asking when, where, I could have changed anything. But this particular several years backs up to a sibling going into screaming rages at me two years in a row, and me saying, in the nicest, politest possible way, No, I'm not having another holiday being treated like this. Which led to sibling and AF laying out that sibling's rages were really my fault (hm, do I hear a theme here?), and laying out his expectations--humanly impossible expectations--of how I am to take responsibility for, and make sure that sibling does not have any more rages.

I see my choices clearly: his expectations are impossible. Nobody could do what he's asking. I can't control someone else's temper or behavior. Therefore, I can go back and have more rages directed at me. I can take it lying down in which case I feel subhuman, upset, humiliated and know I'm teacing them and my children that I can ne treated like this, or I can stand my ground which I know from experience will only escalate things and I'll never win, given the family dynamics. Or I can stay away.

That being said, I guess I'm disgusted that not even a major life trauma like discovering decades of infidelity, divorce, etc. can jar them into a bit of compassion or holding out a hand. I guess I need to take it as another step in learning who they are.

No, they're not worth having in my life. But it's still a hard bump in the road to see even more clearly that they could behave this way, to know that even if I get a terminal illness or am in a serious accident, they will almost undoubtedly still leave me...abandoned. And why? Because I said I'm not going to be screamed at at holidays.

I think maybe deep down, I believed we teach people how to treat us and that if we step back and say no more, family at least will value us enough to finally want us back in their lives, and they are showing me cleary that they do not value me enough to want me back in their lives. Oh...they've told me over and over they want me at holidays, invite me every time. But they refuse to address these issues and have made it clear that I am the one who needs to fix everything.

A side note: one of their issues was that my little boys ran in the house on holidays. They were about 4 at the time. This past Christmas, I saw my 4 yo nephew...running in the house. This is the son of the brother who really went on about how upset 'everyone' was with my boys running in the house. Again, it highlights the double standards.

EveningRose

I do agree that the anger is justified. Maybe my question should be what is the proper response to justified anger. And the understanding that no matter how justified it is, we still have to live lives where these people are going to continually do things that would justifiably make any normal person hurt and angry. I have talked to XH about leaving the state, which I think would help. But it's going to take a couple of years at least to achieve that...if I ever can at all.

Quote:

Neither of my siblings nor my A-father even acknowledged what I was going through -- instead maintained that I was "making it up" and needed to snap out of it.

Must be a dysfunctional family mantra. I could write a long list of things I've been accused of imagining or making up--including xh's years of lies and infidelity, and AF's physical assaults.

Quote:

it is very clear that this is far more important than my actual health.

Yes, I see that here, too. There was such a complete lack of any concern for me at all, for how any of this might be affecting me. And it was to the point of affecting my health. Over and over, I saw situations where things were said and done that I was becoming aware I would never say to them or anyone for that matter.

Quote:

Not trying to railroad your situation with mine -- just wanted to share my sibling experience which may relate in general to yours.

Not at all. It helps so much to hear what others are experiencing and to see so clearly in other people's stories that these are clear and obvious patterns in alcoholic families, that I'm not making it up or imagining it.

Quote:

You deserve to have people in your life who admire and respect you for how much you've persevered through. Every moment given to those who give you any less -- family or not -- is a moment stolen from you to feed their illusions of double-standards. Seriously, you deserve FAR BETTER. You deserve people who will be mindful of your emotional well-being, and the fact that they aren't such people does not make you unworthy of having that kind of support in your life. It's their sh*t; if you can help yourself, don't carry it anymore -- not EVEN for a moment.

Thank you. Luckily, I have such people. I think this is part of why I keep asking myself why it still hurts coming from family, and I guess the answer is that we believe deep down family knows us best and if even family can't love us and see good in us, is it really there to see? Mostly, I do pretty well, but these few things have all hit together at once this past week or two.

Plath

I'm going to apologize first for being so blunt, but in all honesty, I feel angered on your behalf, as this is clearly a trigger issue for me as well. So please do excuse me if I am allowing my own issues to cloud my input here! I know I'm going to ramble a bit, so hopefully you can bear with my ramble, hahah.


I'm not a psychologist, but if my family were conducting themselves in this fashion I would not only sever contact with them, I would probably refuse to allow them to contact my children.

I may be misunderstanding the scenario, but it seems as though they've begun to send Christmas invitations to your children, rather than inviting all of you as a family?

If that is the case, whether it is because you have refused their offers in the past or whatever, it seems manipulative, and a way of making you feel further ostracized, as if to further pound in the message that "This is your fault, and since you will not accept the blame for our behavior, we will only invite your children to holidays". Such invitations may seem well-intentioned, but the outcome and confusion that it evokes may not be worth it (or it may be to you, of course that's up to you to decide).

I have had to think on this long and hard when it comes to my own mother, as her behavior is at least 50% utterly toxic and destructive. She seems to mind her Ps and Qs when she is visiting, as I think she knows that if she so much as *starts* to upset my family or my son with her negative behavior, she will be ultimately limited to seeing him only on rare occasions.

She has suggested having my 9 month-old son come and stay with her for a weekend, but I'm not willing to go there just yet. I'm polite about it, but I am justifiably suspicious of her behavior. My mother has made a life's work of putting me down and humiliating me (and everyone around her who is close enough for her to behave this way with), and I don't quite trust her to not say nasty, negative things about me to my own son, or to put him down in ways that he may not understand yet, but will affect him on some level nonetheless.

I think that you're right about the fact that if you continue to allow their behavior to go unchecked, it will set a precedent for your children that it's okay for you to be treated that way.

It's easier said than done, but sometimes a straight forward letter such as "please do not contact me or my children" (with or without an explanation, however a person may see fit) can offer so much relief. Then sometimes we can just move on with our life and feel our own power and worth, having refused to be involved in our families' chaotic, "crazy making" behavior.

If this were a route a person chose to follow, any mail can always be marked as "return to sender" without opening it. Not easy to do, but it's a thought...

But of course, it's up to you if you want them to have a relationship with your children, and whether allowing that is worth it to you, or beneficial for your kids.

Gosh, I'm so sorry that you're having to experience this sort of ridiculous, disrespectful behavior. And it is hard when we have hopes and expectations from our families, because they're our families (as Dollydo pointed out).

Sometimes, it's better to find good, solid, stable friends and support groups, and look at those people as your true family. And of course, your children.

It sounds as though you have supportive people in your life, and although I don't know you, I'm proud of you for providing yourself with that level of self-care.

Personally, when I was debating which (if any) of my family members I was going to continue contact with, it occurred to me that I was very alone in the world, save for my son, my husband, and my in-laws (my in-laws are slightly better than dealing with my own family, but only by a fraction), and although I felt deeply hurt, outraged, and insignificant when that realization dawned on me, I accepted it for what it was. But it did make me sad.

It sounds as though you're getting it sorted out for yourself, and what will and will not work for you and your children, so I apologize again if I've gone off on a bit of a tangent.
I know I can feel a bit touchy when people make assumptions about my family of origin situation, or suggestions that don't resonate with me, so I hope I haven't stepped over any lines here.

Sending you the best wishes for a positive resolution to your situation, and big hugs if you want them.

dothi

re: why it still hurts coming from family.

For myself, sometimes it feels like the sheer loss from YEARS of my childhood/adulthood invested in these people. Talking to my brother and sister might as well be putting up big flashing neon lights pointing to the LOSS where loving relationships should be. It's like lifting the bandage for yet another peek when I know the wound's not done healing yet.

I read somewhere that the flipside of anger is hurt. Lately I've been trying to use my anger as a signal for when I need to sit down and acknowledge (via journalling and therapy) the core reason behind the hurt that ignited the anger. I find if I don't, my brain seems to go off on its own, using that pain to justify further beating myself up (yeah, self-esteem issues). I try to catch it at the source now, before it starts running amok in my head.

Also, I've come to appreciate that especially with my sister, just having a normal conversation (whether I'm well behaved or not) seems to trigger her, especially if something else has already triggered her. Kind of like a cascade effect -- I don't get to know where it's coming from, only that I'm receiving it. I think it's in her belief system that when something's bothering her, she somehow has explicit permission to use me as her personal punching bag (really, I have endured some nasty tirades from her, and just like an alcoholic, talking to her the next day is like nothing happened -- and she doesn't drink! I think rage is her drug). I figure she learned it growing up, since it was certainly modelled "choose your punching bag and stick with it!" I'm still tempted to contact her sometimes, but I keep reminding myself that we don't share the same values. I think I'm awesome and she does not

Plath

Ah...re-reading your post about holidays, I see that their invitations to your kids was probably occurring within a period when you weren't really having contact with them.

I wasn't able to edit my original post about that, but I suppose that even if that isn't the scenario now, it would probably revert to the same scenario if you simply stopped talking to them. They would still invite your children (with the implied "if you will take full responsibility for our behavior, you're invited as well").

This is indeed very hurtful behavior, and I do know how you feel, in my own way.

newby1961

EveningRose I wanted to thank you for starting this thread. It is amazing that I found this because it is exactly where I have been lately. I have been feeling very unloved and alone in my family which is not a new feeling by any stretch of the imagination. Hopefuly I can give the short condensed version.
I was adopted into a family with 4 other adopted kids. My mom couldn't conceive so they decided to adopt.
I came from a wealthy family so I didn't want for much except the thing I craved the most and that was unconditional love and a place where I fit and felt safe.
My dad is a geophyscist and travled all around the world and my mom was a stay home mom who drank herself to sleep every night. So it was one extreme to another very confusing as a child.
To top that off my mom had jealousy issues and felt my dad loved me more than her crazy but she was so insecure, poor woman (RIP 6/6/09)
I started acting out and was given a choice at the age of 13 live by our rules or get out. So I left w/o fully understanding the consequences of these actions but believe me it wasn't long before they became abundently clear.
I remember a counselor calling her and saying how our family would benifit from all of us getting into therapy to fix the family unit and my mom screamed at the guy and said she is the one with the problem not us and slammed the phone down. I really believe to this day my mom felt more releaved that I was not a part of the family anymore.
I know she gave my dad a choice either me or them how sick is that? He used to come meet me and give me money cause he felt so bad.
Anyway years later my mom got sober and we reunited but it was to late I think cause so much damage had already been done. I did sit down w/her and make amends and she told me a lot about herself and how she grew up and for the 1st time I saw her as a wounded woman with her own issues.
She died a few years back and our relationship had grown a lot but there were things I wish she could have admitted to me and never did.
I still have issues with my siblings but we all talk and I go home to visit once a year but its never on the holidays which always makes me feel so alone on Christmas and Thanksgiving.
I could write so much more but that's enough for now hope this reaches someone who can relate to it so they know they are not so alone

Plath

Wow. I just want to say to all of you that I'm so sorry for what you've had to experience, and may still be experiencing.

I think that, in spite of the anger, sorrow, hurt, resentment, etc., that digging up these feelings evokes, it's so good for all of us to be able to share our experiences and "air them out", so to speak. It's healthy for all of us to be feeling our feelings, not just ignoring them or believing other people when they tell us that we are somehow not entitled to be feeling them.

Reading through this thread and commenting on it has actually brought back some memories for me that, until this evening, I had never really addressed or thought of as outright wrong. And I'm so grateful for it, because unless I remember these wrongs that were committed against me and realize the horrible, inexcusable nature of them, I will never have a chance to address the behaviors they created or how to change them.

Anyway, rather off topic, but thank you for posting this thread, and thank you all who have shared on here.

Willybluedog

I went to my therapist the other day and we got into this big thing about how I could forgive my father who beat me severely, kicked me, and talked to me terribly, but I could not forgive my mother whose abuse was mostly verbal.

I told her my dad has acknowledged the abuse and apologized for it, my mother still denies that any of it happened ever.

I told her that until she acknowleges and apologizes for the abuse I am not going to forgive her.

We went down the road of who is forgiveness for, I said I know it's for me, we have plowed this ground, I know your right, but I'm not ready.

My therapist told me, "you are never going to get what you want do you know why?", I said "yeah I know why, because my mom is a mean ass drunk and she's an a-hole who thinks about no one but herself".

Then my therapist said for my mom to be as damaged as she is, something had to have happened to her, something that she has used booze to bury so deep that it will never see the light of day, and that since you will never know what that was, and since she will never change, it will have to be you that changes, if only to save yourself.

Now I have been chewing on that for 3 days, I have not made any progress yet, I am going to have to give it some more thought, I know she is probably right, but I am hard headed and difficult, so I guess it's going to take me awhile longer.

I guess what it boils down to is that I know I was wronged, and I want my pound of flesh from her.

Plath

I know how you feel, Bill.

I hope I'm not hijacking the thread here, I'm just glad to be sharing on the forum after a week's hiatus.

But yeah, it took me a *long* time to not feel a white hot burning hatred for my mom, and she still has yet to acknowledge her part in all the horrible verbal abuse she dished out to me my entire life up until my mid twenties, when I called her out on it and told her that if she continued to belittle me she wouldn't be a part of my life.

She now blames most of my childhood experiences on my step-dad, who was/is by no means a pleasant person. In reality, he's a hateful, horrible person almost all the way to his core.
She says things like "I guess I kind of yelled a lot, I don't know...". And I think "Are you serious? 'Kind of yelled a lot'???!" But she's obviously in complete denial about her own behavior, so...fine.

I have been able to see my mom as the extremely injured person that she was as a child, and how she came to develop her damaging coping/defense mechanisms, and I have found a lot of compassion for her...

But it took a really long time, and I now realize that if she were to actually acknowledge the damage that she did to me as a child and teenager, it would probably destroy her psychologically and emotionally...so I leave it alone now, as much as I'm able, and I'm able to do that most of the time.

But for many years I harped on her for her verbal abuse, and was met with absolutely no acknowledgment, no apology, nothing. She has still never acknowledged her part in my childhood, but that's okay with me now. She has acknowledged *something*, which is better than nothing. I do believe I am fortunate in that.

For me (and this is only my personal experience), I realize that my mom basically has two personalities. One wants nothing but to be a good mother who provides people with love and kindness. The other is totally mental and neurotic, cruel, abusive, etc.

I doubt this helps any, but again I figured I would share my little bit of experience.

Willybluedog

Plath, IMO it all helps, when we share we drain the wounds, we see and feel each others pain, we learn new coping mechanisms, so for me it is always beneficial.

Thank you for sharing,

Bill

tromboneliness

"She's not very clannish" was how my mother put it, in reference to my wife's disinclination to visit more often.

In my case, I've pretty much pulled the plug on almost everyone in my extended family simply because the don't get how difficult it was, being my parents' kid. Everyone loved my Dad -- he was funny, smart, drove fast cars, was always quick-witted, etc. They have absolutely no clue what life was like at home, on a day-to-day basis. And when I try to tell them, they just laugh it off with, "Oh, that's just how he was -- you can't take it personally." Well, f890 that -- how is a child supposed to "not take it personally" because "that's just how [the parent] was?"

They don't get it, and they're not going to get it. So I choose to disengage. They may think one thing or another of me and my wife -- and they're entitled to. We don't worry about it... why let them rent space in our head?

T

EveningRose

I limit my children's contact with them as much as possible. In the past, I have allowed the older kids to take the younger ones over once a year, for a couple hours, between Christmas and New Year's to get their presents. This year, I said no to even that, because I realize my parents are most likely saying negative things about me that will undermine my relationship with my children. The older kids go when they like.

Funny (sad) thing is, my kids don't seem to really notice that, for grandparents who live within walking distance, my parents actually make relatively little effort to see them, as compared to my brother's children, for whom my mother practically demanded to be their full-time daycare provider.

I'm not actually sure. I know they were for all of us at one point. Now, I have no idea. I think my dad posts open invitations to all his children on his facebook page. Without ever having actually told me he does so. I look at his page, which is totally public (I won't have him as a friend on mine) about once a year, which is how I know this. So I don't know if it's a passive aggressive thing on his part to claim he invited me where he believes I'll never see it, or if he believes I've got my nose pressed up to the window looking in, figuratively speaking, and am scouting out his page and life routinely.


Same thing here. Minus, she doesn't invite them over except on holidays. Did I mention they're walking distance away and invite my kids about 3 or 4 times per year??? Another reason I don't want my kids there is exactly because of how she treats them. They are not old enough to GET that it's not normal, some of the stuff my parents do.

I have considered doing this and keep wondering if there's anything legal I can do, how much worse it's going to make the situation if I tell them outright to quit contacting kids behind my back, and whether it's better to say it, rather than have anything in writing.


quote]It sounds as though you're getting it sorted out for yourself, and what will and will not work for you and your children, so I apologize again if I've gone off on a bit of a tangent.

I know I can feel a bit touchy when people make assumptions about my family of origin situation, or suggestions that don't resonate with me, so I hope I haven't stepped over any lines here.

Sending you the best wishes for a positive resolution to your situation, and big hugs if you want them.

[/QUOTE]

No worries! As Bill says, I think it helps us all to talk and share. I think one of my key moments in healing, in seeing that I was NOT crazy, was NOT imagining things, was finding this forum and one other, where people talked about being the scapegoat in their alcoholic family. We spend our lives being told by these alcoholic (or other dysfunctional) families that we're crazy. We need to hear the stories from each other, because then we see that it fits a pattern and we are not crazy at all. I thank you for sharing and telling your story.

EveningRose

A few of you mentioned learning how your parents grew up, and developing some compassion, which helped you forgive and heal--even if it was still necessary to keep your distance.

I think maybe this is one of the things I struggle with, one of the reasons I can more easily forgive my AF who really is the one who caused a lot of the trouble and did worse things, but struggle with my mother. My dad, by all accounts, grew up in one of those families that looked great on the surface but had sickness brewing behind closed doors. My uncle long ago severed contact with all of them, claiming he was sexually abused. I'd like not to believe it, but then again, looking at my dad's behavior all these years, I wouldn't be surprised if there was sexual abuse of some sort in that home. I think that he probably managed to give us better than what he got.

My mother, though...I've heard all my life (from her, cough) how her family was/is so much better than those awful ______s. Her mother was awarded Mother of the Year two years running by their church. I try to remind myself that whatever her supposedly perfect family, she has spent 50 years with an abuser (primarily emotional/verbal). But then, I think she married him even after he hit her while they were still dating. He hit her a few times while they were dating, and she still married him!!!! She had an education, she had a profession, she had a large, loving, and supportive family all right here in town, yet she never left him, even after he ended up in jail for hitting her when I was 16. Instead, she went along with his decision that I was somehow causing their marital troubles!!!

It's hard for me to have compassion. I have far more children, far less income, and no supportive family at all, but I was able to leave my husband rather than sink into depression and despair and take it out on my children. Part of the reason I found the strength to do it is so that I wouldn't end up in despair and making my children's lives hell as my mother did to us.

So maybe one of the things I should be praying for is that I could find some compassion for her, for whatever reason she was so weak, even if I can't understand it at this point.

Tromboneliness, this is one of the things that has hit me hard again this week: noticing how very close all my extended family is to my siblings and sil/bils, including the ones who have been cruel and hurtful to me, blatantly snubbed me, etc. I hear from them if I don't show up for extended family gatherings--sort of soft asides that they really wish I'd come, that they miss me. And then before the next one, two or three of them will let me know they really hope I come.

And yet...I see how they're very clearly so very close to my siblings, much more so than to me. They chat on each others' fb pages and not on mine. It hurts. I ask myself if it's because my siblings grew up near extended family, whereas I didn't, and moved far away for many years because of my dad. I wonder if it's because my siblings and parents are telling negative stories about me. I long ago realized that my mother regards me as a liar and always has. As an aside, trying to piece together memories, I'm wondering if it's because my mother herself was a liar and figures I'm the same. Or, I clearly remember being taken to something like a porn movie with my dad when I was probably no more than 4. I'm wondering if I told her so; I'm wondering if this wasn't the only inappropriate thing my dad did and I said so and got labeled a liar, rather than her facing head on that he was out of line. Regardless, I now realize that with her big mouth, she has probably been telling my aunts and uncles my entire life, since I was a very young child, that I'm a liar and a trouble maker. In which case, it's no wonder they aren't as close to me.

It's difficult not knowing what the truth is. And it angers me to realize that the distance between me and them undoubtedly does have something to do with her. And I don't think there's a darn thing I can do about it. It angers me knowing that she has undoubtedly stolen from me a support network and friendships I could have had.

Plath

That is terrible, what you have described.
I am glad that you have been able to stand your ground and do what is best for you and your kids.

It sounds as though your family members are very toxic people who are in heavy denial, and you are (and have been) their scapegoat.

I know that my own mother, who managed to carry on the cycle of abuse (not the alcoholism, she just married one instead) went through something with her sister and mother years ago, when she was trying to give voice to her awful childhood experiences.

My aunt, who doesn't remember her childhood hardly at all, chooses to minimize pretty much everything, as if by not talking about it we can all just move on with our lives, etc.
Because, of course, she is fine with not remembering any of it, and has been able to move on with her life.
My mother, on the other hand, remembers everything, and her life is a mess. It always has been.

I have another friend who has experienced the same sort of scenario.
When she spoke out loud to her family members about the abuse she experienced as a child (horrific abuse that took her years of having flashbacks to remember), they all completely denied that what she was saying was true.

Her mother denied abusing her, that her father abused her, her siblings didn't believe her, etc.
After that, she simply refused to have any contact with any of them.

I don't know how you will choose to deal with your family and their behavior, but it seems as though their denial and blame will only continue to hurt you (and possibly your children).

I am sorry that you live in such close proximity to them, that is really difficult.

It's also really difficult when we have to look at our families, who we want and need love and acceptance from, and realize that we are probably never going to get that from them, and that it's not fair or right, but that it's not our fault.
I don't think that any of us deserve to have "family" who treats us as inferiors, or liars, or whatever the case may be. That is their problem and their burden to carry, not ours.

It may take a while, but I think that acceptance will come. It's always the hardest when we feel so invalidated by the people who were there to witness the abuse taking place, but choose to pretend that it didn't happen.
I know that when I first started talking about how my mother treated me, I got the same reaction from my aunt. Basically, "quit whining, and pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, get over it", etc.

I was hurt, I felt powerless and helpless, I felt very small and worthless, and at the same time I was livid.
I was addicted to heroin by the time I was 20 years old, and I still often wonder how they cannot put two and two together and say "Hmm. People who grow up in loving, supportive households usually do not become IV drug addicts..."

At any rate, you have support here, and I think that all of us know on some level the pain of having family members who look down on us, don't believe us, minimize what we've been through, blame us, and simply don't seem to care about how we're doing.

Kudos for doing the things you need to do for your own self-care and for your children, and I hope that you find your own resolution soon, in whatever way that manifests itself.