Pick and choose your battles?
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Pick and choose your battles?
My mom says she always picked and chose her battles when it came to dealing with my dad. What she really did was let him say whatever he wanted, all the time, even if she didn't agree or found it unacceptable. So, instead of picking and choosing her battles, she actually let him "win" all the battles because it was easier to do that than to stand up for herself.
I was more aggressive in objecting to things my father said and his general attitude; my mom always chose not to get involved because she didn't want to "get in the middle of it", and if I ever turned to her for backup, she would tell me to stop pulling her into the middle of it. Basically taking all of his verbal abuse, including that towards me and my brother, because she "didn't want to get in the middle of it". She sometimes told me and my brother, "don't listen to him", but that was about it.
I understand not wanting to be in the middle of things, but something about what my mom did just doesn't seem quite right, and I can't put my finger on it.
I was more aggressive in objecting to things my father said and his general attitude; my mom always chose not to get involved because she didn't want to "get in the middle of it", and if I ever turned to her for backup, she would tell me to stop pulling her into the middle of it. Basically taking all of his verbal abuse, including that towards me and my brother, because she "didn't want to get in the middle of it". She sometimes told me and my brother, "don't listen to him", but that was about it.
I understand not wanting to be in the middle of things, but something about what my mom did just doesn't seem quite right, and I can't put my finger on it.
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You know what happened the day before I left AXH?
My 11-year-old daughter said to me, "HOW can you just stand by and let Dad scream at me without stopping him? What kind of a mother DOES that?"
It was the rudest and most necessary wake-up call ever.
I asked her to forgive me and said I had no answer, because she was right, it was WRONG of me. But I promised her that from that moment on, I would have her back. Always.
36 hours later, we were gone.
My 11-year-old daughter said to me, "HOW can you just stand by and let Dad scream at me without stopping him? What kind of a mother DOES that?"
It was the rudest and most necessary wake-up call ever.
I asked her to forgive me and said I had no answer, because she was right, it was WRONG of me. But I promised her that from that moment on, I would have her back. Always.
36 hours later, we were gone.
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Location: Memphis, TN
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lillamy, good for you. 
At 58 I am still dealing with the issues of my childhood. At least now I understand them and most of the time have a handle on it.
The next 2 on my list are dealing with authority figures and trust. I don't have a clue on how I'm going to handle it but now I have a program and the tools that go with it.
Your friend,
At 58 I am still dealing with the issues of my childhood. At least now I understand them and most of the time have a handle on it.
The next 2 on my list are dealing with authority figures and trust. I don't have a clue on how I'm going to handle it but now I have a program and the tools that go with it.
Your friend,
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Originally Posted by lillamy 
You know what happened the day before I left AXH?
My 11-year-old daughter said to me, "HOW can you just stand by and let Dad scream at me without stopping him? What kind of a mother DOES that?"
My 11-year-old daughter said to me, "HOW can you just stand by and let Dad scream at me without stopping him? What kind of a mother DOES that?"
With my mom it was always, "he's X years old, he's not going to change", "it's better to just let it go and not argue", "I'm sick and tired of being made the referee around here", or (my favorite) "when you grow up and get married, you will see" (see what? I'm not sure).
It got to the point where she was saying to us, "don't make your father mad" etc.
My father is not an alcoholic, but he can be very manipulative and gets off on pulling whatever funny business his mind comes up with. For my mom, it was easier to just say "whatever" and ignore it; I was always the one calling BS on him. I still talk to both parents, but I end the conversation if any funny business starts.
I remember my mom would say, "you and your father are both very belligerent" or something along those lines.
But I'm not that way with other people, because I try not to associate with people who pull that kind of sh*t for fun.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
Oh boy do I know this feeling. Not that my parents were alcoholics/addicts of any sort, but my mother certainly did have a short fuse and a giant temper. We would walk on eggshells to try to avoid setting her off (or better yet, stay hidden away in our rooms, although sometimes that set her off too, but less often), and it was very common for us to be blamed for things that she herself had done.
My father didn't stand up for us, and often times when we went to him for help he would tell us that our mother was right. (How cool is that???) We would defend him against her when we knew she was wrong, and he'd stick up for her and say that no, he really was the horrible person she was saying he was.
And I couldn't talk to my father in confidence, because he'd pull my mother into the conversation - ALWAYS. I remember being upset in college about a major decision I had to make regarding classes and graduation, and calling my father because we were similar majors and I thought he could sit down and help me work through it. And what did he do? Put me on hold and set up a conference call with my mother, who heard how upset I was (I felt at the time like my world was falling apart, because I couldn't accomplish everything I wanted to accomplish in the timeframe I wanted it to fit into), and her reaction?
"It sounds like she's on drugs."
I didn't realize how much this affected me until earlier this year, when I was working through some exercises in the book "Getting the Love You Want" - and when I uncovered just how much my father wasn't there, I had to stop the exercises and have a giant cathartic crying experience off and on for the next month. I had a lot of anger to work through, too.
I tell myself that he was trying to do what he thought was best, and that he believed that we'd be less "damaged" by the outbursts if we didn't argue so they'd be over faster, and that he didn't realize the long-term impact it would have...
In my heart I know it's just because he's afraid of confrontation and wants everyone to like him. (His own mother teases him at family gatherings, "Are you running for office?" Because he's always seeking approval, from everyone).
But right now lying to myself most of the time about it is what I need, because I can't change the past, I can only learn from it - and right now I have other things to work on, rather than dwelling on what he didn't do. I guess I'm the one picking and choosing my battles right now, but truth be told, I know I'm not healthy enough to work through this one in its entirety yet, so I need to put it on the shelf until I can.
My father didn't stand up for us, and often times when we went to him for help he would tell us that our mother was right. (How cool is that???) We would defend him against her when we knew she was wrong, and he'd stick up for her and say that no, he really was the horrible person she was saying he was.
And I couldn't talk to my father in confidence, because he'd pull my mother into the conversation - ALWAYS. I remember being upset in college about a major decision I had to make regarding classes and graduation, and calling my father because we were similar majors and I thought he could sit down and help me work through it. And what did he do? Put me on hold and set up a conference call with my mother, who heard how upset I was (I felt at the time like my world was falling apart, because I couldn't accomplish everything I wanted to accomplish in the timeframe I wanted it to fit into), and her reaction?
"It sounds like she's on drugs."
I didn't realize how much this affected me until earlier this year, when I was working through some exercises in the book "Getting the Love You Want" - and when I uncovered just how much my father wasn't there, I had to stop the exercises and have a giant cathartic crying experience off and on for the next month. I had a lot of anger to work through, too.
I tell myself that he was trying to do what he thought was best, and that he believed that we'd be less "damaged" by the outbursts if we didn't argue so they'd be over faster, and that he didn't realize the long-term impact it would have...
In my heart I know it's just because he's afraid of confrontation and wants everyone to like him. (His own mother teases him at family gatherings, "Are you running for office?" Because he's always seeking approval, from everyone).
But right now lying to myself most of the time about it is what I need, because I can't change the past, I can only learn from it - and right now I have other things to work on, rather than dwelling on what he didn't do. I guess I'm the one picking and choosing my battles right now, but truth be told, I know I'm not healthy enough to work through this one in its entirety yet, so I need to put it on the shelf until I can.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
This was the exercise... There's a lot of emotions in here.
GtLYW Exercise 5: Parent-Child Dialogue (Dad)
The Parent-Child Dialogue is designed to help you deepen your memory of your childhood and increase your empathy for each other.
I will alter this slightly, since it's just me.
The partner playing the Child role acts as if he or she were a young child of a specific age and talks in the present tense. The Child selects which parent he or she wants to talk to. The Child may select both parents or any other significant caretaker.
If there were a partner, the partner would play the Parent role assigned but respond with more compassion than the real-life parent. This is just me writing to my journal, though.
"I am your Dad. What is it like living with me?"
You're never here. You're always away on business trips, or working late, and even when you are here you're not really here emotionally. You don't understand the meaning of commitment - promises that you make are not guaranteed to be kept. You are a wonderful storyteller, and I wish I could get close to you, but there's nobody to really get close to. Meanwhile Mom is stressing out, yelling at us, taking everything out on us, telling us how stupid we are to think the way we do, and talking about how you don't help with anything, and here you are telling us to listen to her because she's right. I don't know if you're trying to help us, or trying to stay out of the middle, but you've picked a side and it's not my side. And then when she yells at you, we defend you, but you won't even defend yourself, or us, or anybody. Whatever is easiest, that's what you do. And when we try to talk to you alone, tell you how hurt we are about things, the first thing you do is pull Mom into a conference call, or call her over to "join the conversation," and then she takes over and insults us and tells us how stupid we are for feeling that way. The end result is that I have learned that nobody cares what I have to say, because I'm not important. I don't matter. My opinions don't matter. I am nothing.
"What is your deepest hurt with me?"
My deepest hurt is... that you're never there to support us, all you do is back up Mom and all the hurtful things she says. I wanted so much to talk to you, but I couldn't, because you wouldn't let me.
What hurts me about that is... that leaves nobody to protect me, and look out for me.
I'm sad about that because... I'm not sad about that, I'm terrified, because now I don't feel safe, especially not at home.
What I am afraid of is... that everything is true, and I really am worthless, because nobody seems to think otherwise.
"What do you do when I hurt you?"
I stop being me, because you have convinced me that nobody cares who I am anyway. Not even you, you care more about not hurting Mom's feelings than you do about whether or not I have any feelings at all.
"As your Dad, what do you need from me most that I am not giving you?"
What I need most is your backup and support. I know I'm not perfect, I understand that, but I hope I'm not the monster that Mom says I am, but you stay uninvolved, so you must agree with her!
GtLYW Exercise 5: Parent-Child Dialogue (Dad)
The Parent-Child Dialogue is designed to help you deepen your memory of your childhood and increase your empathy for each other.
I will alter this slightly, since it's just me.
The partner playing the Child role acts as if he or she were a young child of a specific age and talks in the present tense. The Child selects which parent he or she wants to talk to. The Child may select both parents or any other significant caretaker.
If there were a partner, the partner would play the Parent role assigned but respond with more compassion than the real-life parent. This is just me writing to my journal, though.
"I am your Dad. What is it like living with me?"
You're never here. You're always away on business trips, or working late, and even when you are here you're not really here emotionally. You don't understand the meaning of commitment - promises that you make are not guaranteed to be kept. You are a wonderful storyteller, and I wish I could get close to you, but there's nobody to really get close to. Meanwhile Mom is stressing out, yelling at us, taking everything out on us, telling us how stupid we are to think the way we do, and talking about how you don't help with anything, and here you are telling us to listen to her because she's right. I don't know if you're trying to help us, or trying to stay out of the middle, but you've picked a side and it's not my side. And then when she yells at you, we defend you, but you won't even defend yourself, or us, or anybody. Whatever is easiest, that's what you do. And when we try to talk to you alone, tell you how hurt we are about things, the first thing you do is pull Mom into a conference call, or call her over to "join the conversation," and then she takes over and insults us and tells us how stupid we are for feeling that way. The end result is that I have learned that nobody cares what I have to say, because I'm not important. I don't matter. My opinions don't matter. I am nothing.
"What is your deepest hurt with me?"
My deepest hurt is... that you're never there to support us, all you do is back up Mom and all the hurtful things she says. I wanted so much to talk to you, but I couldn't, because you wouldn't let me.
What hurts me about that is... that leaves nobody to protect me, and look out for me.
I'm sad about that because... I'm not sad about that, I'm terrified, because now I don't feel safe, especially not at home.
What I am afraid of is... that everything is true, and I really am worthless, because nobody seems to think otherwise.
"What do you do when I hurt you?"
I stop being me, because you have convinced me that nobody cares who I am anyway. Not even you, you care more about not hurting Mom's feelings than you do about whether or not I have any feelings at all.
"As your Dad, what do you need from me most that I am not giving you?"
What I need most is your backup and support. I know I'm not perfect, I understand that, but I hope I'm not the monster that Mom says I am, but you stay uninvolved, so you must agree with her!
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Join Date: Feb 2011
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Maybe its because I'm getting better. Or maybe it's because I've been doing a lot of reading lately but I was able to forgive my mother for not leaving, for not protecting us from my dad. He didn't beat us but his behavior was atrocious. It limited our lives. it destroyed our self esteem. It made me feel shame and embarassment even though I had nothing to do with his drinking. Now I'm an adult.
I married an alcoholic.
My mom just told me recently that it is so hard for her to have lived it but even harder to watch me live it.
I limit my contact with my mom because as much as she loves me I can't let her see how hard this is for me...even though I know she knows firsthand. I just can't let her see my pain and I can't bear to see the pain in her eyes for me.
I know now that she did the best she could.
Just like I'm doing.
I married an alcoholic.
My mom just told me recently that it is so hard for her to have lived it but even harder to watch me live it.
I limit my contact with my mom because as much as she loves me I can't let her see how hard this is for me...even though I know she knows firsthand. I just can't let her see my pain and I can't bear to see the pain in her eyes for me.
I know now that she did the best she could.
Just like I'm doing.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I recognize the "don't make your father mad" part. I was a master at smoothing the way for AXH when he came home. My son still says he hates the sound of a garage door because that always signalled Dad coming home and the dark cloud descending and all the fun ending and everyone walking on eggshells.
What I don't recognize is the "wait until you get married"... One thing that really convinced me leaving was a good thing was that I did NOT under any circumstances want my children growing up thinking this was what marriage was supposed to be like. Just wish I had made that decision earlier.
What I don't recognize is the "wait until you get married"... One thing that really convinced me leaving was a good thing was that I did NOT under any circumstances want my children growing up thinking this was what marriage was supposed to be like. Just wish I had made that decision earlier.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tucson
Posts: 71
My mom was the one with the huge temper in my family. No addictions and a wonderful woman. But very very demanding....of herself as well as others. I'll never be close to her but I admire her and know she'll always try to have my back.
I've joked for years that I married my mother.
Only she has no addictions etc to cause her to lose control at times, nor did she have that strange twisted up way of thinking to justify her 'bad' behaviors and she could listen as well as demand.
I've been telling myself for 15? years or so that the alcohol doesn't matter...I can't control the drinking so just try to control the things that can hurt our family. The drinking and driving, the...
...that list would be waaaay too long! But you guys know how many many ways drinking messes things up. All the mess that seems to go with the drinking.
I tenatively think I've done ok by my first born. I've certainly always fought for her except for the last 4-5 years. The last few years I have tried to just keep my head down. I don't know how well I've done overall, but we're very close still so at least that gives me a place to begin again with her.
My youngest is the one I worry about. Over the last few years I've found myself joking that I married my mother and gave birth to my husband. My youngest has no addictions but she has some of that twisty way of thinking and shes not so good at really hearing and processing what others say. So I'm deeply afraid of how well I can raise her...I certainly haven't done well dealing with that stuff with her dad. But she has no addictions and that alone makes things easier. I'm scared for her. Not because of anything that has happened but just because I feel out of my depth in raising her. All I can do is try my best and hope my hindsight isn't better then my real-time perspective.
Hmm....guess my reply is kinda OT, lol.
I've tried to set my battles as anything that has to do with safety, freedom to be ourselves as long as we're not being ridiculous in our wants, freedom to have friends and a life outside of our family for our kids, and freedom from being insulted, pushed around etc for all of us.
And that hasn't worked for me...lol. But I believe those are good things to fight for and insist on.
I've joked for years that I married my mother.
Only she has no addictions etc to cause her to lose control at times, nor did she have that strange twisted up way of thinking to justify her 'bad' behaviors and she could listen as well as demand.
I've been telling myself for 15? years or so that the alcohol doesn't matter...I can't control the drinking so just try to control the things that can hurt our family. The drinking and driving, the...
...that list would be waaaay too long! But you guys know how many many ways drinking messes things up. All the mess that seems to go with the drinking.
I tenatively think I've done ok by my first born. I've certainly always fought for her except for the last 4-5 years. The last few years I have tried to just keep my head down. I don't know how well I've done overall, but we're very close still so at least that gives me a place to begin again with her.
My youngest is the one I worry about. Over the last few years I've found myself joking that I married my mother and gave birth to my husband. My youngest has no addictions but she has some of that twisty way of thinking and shes not so good at really hearing and processing what others say. So I'm deeply afraid of how well I can raise her...I certainly haven't done well dealing with that stuff with her dad. But she has no addictions and that alone makes things easier. I'm scared for her. Not because of anything that has happened but just because I feel out of my depth in raising her. All I can do is try my best and hope my hindsight isn't better then my real-time perspective.
Hmm....guess my reply is kinda OT, lol.
I've tried to set my battles as anything that has to do with safety, freedom to be ourselves as long as we're not being ridiculous in our wants, freedom to have friends and a life outside of our family for our kids, and freedom from being insulted, pushed around etc for all of us.
And that hasn't worked for me...lol. But I believe those are good things to fight for and insist on.
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