Isollae

I looked up alanon meetings for my area and found one that works with my schedule and I peeked at the twelve steps stickie to see what it was about and now I'm angry and not so sure. I like the thinking of all you people here who have gone through all this already, so I'm guessing it could help me if I go, keep an open mind and try.

But...

It sounds to me like the concept of powerlessness is that if your powerless, then you free yourself from the heartache, pain, frustration, anger, self-sacrificing...ok, that list is too long...enough to say from all the bad things that striving against.....odds?....life?....alcohol?....brings into our lives. And the freedom to let it go sets us free?...gives us back power in ourselves?

Logically I can accept that. But...to choose to say "I am powerless"...I feel like I've been saying that for 20 years and it just feels so wrong to say it any more. I don't know...its like tonight, he was happily yakking my ear off a mile a minute while I ignored him and went about my business. He's happy as a clam. I'm the one not saying anything because I know how he responds. He likes his monologue. He gets his monologue. He gets everything he wants except passivity about being hit, yelled at or insulted. My manipulations are simply a habit of saying stuff like I've said on this board. Examples are like when I say I don't know if hes an alcoholic when I think he is. Or I think this, but he thinks differently. I make no argument either way. Just a statement and nothing more. Its become such a habit that I do it automatically. It's how I've tried to not hide our lives from others and I never do it about him being an alcoholic or drinking...I do it about being hit, yelled at or insulted. I also do it because it curbs his behavior and that makes it manipulation. I didn't start it to manipulate...but when I found it helped, I made it a habit.
I've ignored him for years now...I rarely listen to a word he says unless its about practical matters. He says I'm his best friend now while I feel like I've forgotten how to speak, let alone how to have a conversation.

Ugh.

I was just starting to feel free to leave him and now I feel like in good conscience I have to stay and work through at least some of the 12 steps before I leave. Because as long as I ignore him, hes not verbally abusive. Because I see him trying to be a better husband. Simply because I see him trying.

I wanted to free myself from that shut-down dead place I've been living for the last 4-5 years and I think I've been looking for the freedom to leave without guilt as well. If I look only at how hes hurt me then I can be free easily. If sit here questioning myself then well...thats what I've done for most of 20 years. Questioning myself and trying to change me. Trying to change me to make things work because I can't change him. Very little of trying to change him.

But...

How do I leave in good conscience if I'm also at fault? Do I have a moral obligation to find a better version of myself before I leave? How do I leave and feel right about doing so?

Did doing the 12 steps help you guys with these kinds of thoughts?

m1k3

Isollae, the first step can be looked at a little differently. It is not about being powerless or helpless, it is about giving up the illusion of control.

You can not get your qualifier to stop drinking no matter what you do or don't do, no matter what you say or don't say. They will only quit drinking when they are ready and not one second sooner. It didn't make any difference if you cried or begged or threatened or anything. It was the same for all of us here.

So, by saying you are powerless over another's drinking isn't giving up anything, it is simply acknowledging reality.

You arn't giving up control because you never had control.

Once I did that I felt a huge weight drop off of my shoulders. I was no longer assuming responsibility for someone else's life and that left me free to start living mine.


Your friend,

naive

you are free in this moment.

the 12 steps are liberating, but they can be done anywhere and probably best done in an environment where you have the time and freedom to focus on yourself.

m1k3

One other thing, I left my AW when the pain of staying was greater than the pain of leaving.

Your friend,

PixieGirl

I did not like the 1st step of powerless when I first learned of it. It made me angry! I was so used to thinking there was something I could do or say to help the situation. When I finally 'got' the 1st step, it was freeing for me, I realized that it's about taking that huge weight of the world off your shoulders, because it didn't belong on you in the first place.

MsPINKAcres

For me the first step was about being powerless over "people, places, things" but I was not poweless over my actions, thoughts and attitude ~ thru my own recovery I discovered in all things I HAD choices . . .

Even if I couldn't change the situation ~ I had the ability to face it with an attitude of openness, gratitude for the learning experience and trust in my HP that things were going to be OK.

That is what I learned from the First step - but that is just MY experience, strength and hope ~ everyone's process is different . . .

You have the opportunity to learn, follow and seek your own recovery answers. . .

PINK HUGS,
Rita

Programmatic

Just because I am powerless does not mean I am helpless.

Isollae

I don't know. I look over our life together and where we are today and the only thing I'm certain of is that almost all our arguments and my manipulations have been about how he treats me. And its also the area thats seen the worst behavior and the least improvement.

So I guess thats my answer and what I need to admit being powerless over.

Thank you for putting up with my...whatever this is I'm going through.

Pelican

You are processing, and it looks good from my side of the screen!

I did something radical, not recommended, after attending my first few Alanon meetings. I announced to my AH that I was leaving him.

For me, accepting that I was powerless over alcohol - and our lives were unmanageable; gave me the power to step away from his addiction.

I could not fix, control or cure his addiction. I was exhausted from trying. I was miserable with who I had become in all my efforts to control the outcomes caused by active addiction.

I wanted control of my environment so I could focus on my needs and my childrens well-being. That meant leaving.

I did not embrace the steps from the beginning. I thought it was regimented and stifling. However, I kept going back as recommended.
With time, I learned to value and appreciate the steps.
Today, I feel calm and peace envelop my being when I sit in a meeting and hear the steps and traditions read aloud. Serenity.

lillamy

I had HUGE issues with the 12 steps, too, before I went to Al-Anon.
To paraphrase Mike, I only went to Al-Anon when the pain of NOT going was bigger than the pain of going.

I went to Al-Anon when everything else I had tried had failed, and I think I approached it sort of like "I don't understand why headache pills work, but people say they do, and I don't need to agree philosophically with the way they work: I can just take an Ibuprofen the next time I have a headache, and since it's worked for so many people, I'll give it a shot and see if it works for me."

In other words -- you don't have to agree with or understand everything. You just have to say "I can't do what I'm doing anymore and here's a group of people who have been or are in the same situation. Maybe I can go listen to what they have to say and maybe they have something to teach me." It's pretty much like coming here. There's no contract to sign, no obligation to do anything or say anything. Nobody's going to call you and ask, "WHY HAVE YOU NOT GOTTEN TO STEP FOUR YET???" or "WHERE WERE YOU LAST WEDNESDAY?"

StarCat

The way I look at the first step is that if I let go of my illusions of control over things that I cannot control, that gives me the energy I need to work on the things that I can control.
To be powerless over something also means that I have no obligation to attempt to alter the outcome, and no responsibility for whatever that outcome happens to be.
I am powerless over the weather. It may rain when I want to go on a picnic, but there's nothing I can do about it. I am allowed to be disappointed, certainly, but as I can't make it stop raining and I'm not responsible for causing the rain, all that's left to do is figure out what I am doing instead of having my picnic outside. I could have it indoors, or I could do something else entirely. That is something I can control, rather than yelling at the clouds who could care less what I think.

That's how I see it.

I have a moral obligation to find a better version of myself, and I know in my case I couldn't do that to the extent necessary until I left - there was too much drama pulling me back into unhealthy behaviors. XABF (alcoholic ex-boyfriend) was abusive and controlling, so I was not "allowed" to have any space to myself. If I went to the bathroom, even after telling him that's what I was doing, he would start panicking when he couldn't see me. So in my case, I couldn't go to Al-Anon, I couldn't read, I could barely breathe. I changed the deadbolt and he would stay outside pounding on the door to come in. I told him I wouldn't talk to him or look at him ever again unless he went to rehab, and then when I had space to realize all the other abusive controlling tactics he was using to keep me hooked, I officially broke up with him while he was in rehab.
That's what I had to do. His daughter was not happy with me - I got a giant screaming message on my phone about how I ruined his chances for a successful rehab - but I was happ(ier) because I was done.
It took several months before I remembered what "happy" really meant, even then.

If/when you are ready to leave, you will know. It may be a gradual thing as you get used to the idea, or you may wake up one morning and decide that you are done and that's that - there's no right or wrong way. The only way to get where you need to be is to keep working on yourself, do what you can do where you're at, and see what happens.
As you grow as a person, you'll start reaching the point where you know what you want/need to do for yourself - and that's the only time you can have a reliable answer for that sort of thing, anyway.

Thank goodness!
I've only just started working the steps, it's been too long in some respects, but I wasn't ready until recently, either.
I found a meeting that's doing some Step Four work once a month, so I'll go to those meetings, starting this week.

Cyranoak

I'm sure it isn't true for you, but this concept is frequently difficult for people who have control issues and use passive-aggressive and/or controlling behaviors as their way to try and make the world safe for them.

People like me. If you find yourself often thinking something like, "if people would just do as I say, live as I live, and follow my rules everything will be fine," you are probably like me too.

Cyranoak

onlythetruth

I have never particularly cared for the philosophy of powerlessness, nor, in the 13+ year since I quit drinking, has it ever been helpful to me.

I spent a lot of years trying to make sense of it, and finally realized that, for me, it didn't make any sense and that there was nothing wrong with me for feeling that way.

That's why my preference is for a support group/recovery program that doesn't use the concept...SMART Recovery, which is is focused on empowerment.

Isollae

Ouch that would be hard to handle. Mine simply tells me what time of day I should go poo because afterall, he can judge a person by that and my lack of control over my body functions tells him alot about me. You see, I poo when I need to poo and not on his schedule. You only poo before you shower or your dirty and lack self-control. He'll actually jump back in the shower if he goes off schedule....lol.

You guys have said too many good thoughts to highlight them all so I'll just say thanks and go digest them.

Maybe I'll go join my kid for an episode of her favorite cartoon, Scooby Doo....what a nice simple world Scooby lives in!

Isollae

Ok. I think I do need to just get out now and work on all the things about me that need improved after. I had wanted to sort myself out first just to be sure I wouldn't regret my choice; that emotions weren't walking over reason, but I think something I read somewhere recently is right. They said something to the effect that the co-dependent is under the influence also as long as they're in the relationship.
I don't think I can really get my head straight as long as I'm living in it every day.

Thank you guys so much. This place and everyone here really is a life saver.

LifeRecovery

I had to work the step at first in a way similiar to what MsPink wrote about. It worked better, especially at first when for me this step was "I am powerless over people, places and things and my life had become uncontrollable."

It took me 8-10 months in Al-anon before I was even ready for that though, and I have not done it in a "traditional" way.

It did really help me to define what was mine and what was not mine in many more situations than with my loved one. I came to realize that I don't have control over others feelings or their behaviors, I don't even have control over my own behaviors....but I do have control over what I choose to do with those feelings.

A huge weigh was lifted for me when I did work through them. Still working on the next one though and I am coming up on 2 years in the program.

Cyranoak

...and SMART may in fact work for you. The point is to keep an open mind and give the programs of recovery you are considering a chance BEFORE making a final decision.

If you've been to six Alanon meetings and it still doesn't work for you then fine. If you haven't you didn't give it a chance which tells you many things about yourself.

I encourage you to do the same thing with SMART should you decide to investigate it further.

Right now it seems to me you are still trying to control, not keeping an open mind, and looking for excuses to reject things that may in fact save your life.

My two cents.

Cyranoak

P.s. Being powerless over something is not the same as being powerless over everything. There are many things I have power over, and many I don't. I interpret that in the context of Alanon to mean that I am learning what I do, and what I do not, have power over. I do not have power over my wife, her drinking, and her recovery.

LifeRecovery

[QUOTE=LifeRecovery;3256320] I came to realize that I don't have control over others feelings or their behaviors, I don't even have control over my own behaviors....but I do have control over what I choose to do with those feelings. QUOTE]


This would make a lot more sense if I wrote I don't have control over other's feelings or their behaviors, I don't even have control over my feelings, but I do have a say in what I do with those feelings.

wanttobehealthy

I remember having the same questions/confusion even anger about what the hell were these steps for and why did I need them-- after all, I didn't have a problem (ha ha ha- yes, I really thought that- wow!)


Leaving means that you actually have a lot more work done on step 1 than you think. Like Mike said, it's about giving up the illusion of control or the notion that you can find some way to change, help, stop, save, alter, control etc... the A. The fact that you have reached the "I need to leave" point puts you leap years ahead of where I started!

The steps have and continue to help me focus on what I CAN control. That's me. And they helped me become unbelievably comfortable (to the point that it angers some "friends") with my flaws (this doesn't mean they are okay) and the ability to own those flaws and work day in and out on them.

You absolutely do not have to have anything at all figured out before you leave. And you don't have to justify why you are leaving. You know what is best for you and that's great.

I don't really know if I am answering anything at all you've asked but this was what came to mind when I read your initial post.

fourmaggie

my sponsor says.."the 12 steps and 12 traditions are like meat and potatoes of AL ANON (AA), it works when you can have an open mind and work the steps for change..."

I am working on step 4...not a piece of cake...but my path in this recovery is for my life...and i am patient {process not prefection} I want to get well, my path before was not "working" for me anymore...sinking with the ship....

now, well, i see the light and a clearing in thought..