Plath

My son loves to be sang to while I listen to soft, acoustic music and "dance" with him.

Tonight, I was feeling sentimental (and at a loss for new music to share with him), so I went back to the music that my mom listened to when I was young, music that she and I both liked.

I remember that she really wanted to impress the song "Honest Lullaby" upon me as a child (I was four years old when the song came out), by Joan Baez.

Singing the lyrics of the song with my son, and realizing how hard my mom tried to give me a good life, and how she couldn't help but be affected by her violent, unpredictable, and often cruel father (who at one point threatened to shoot the entire family back in the '60s, forcing my mom, grandma, and her siblings to hide at a friend's house while he went around town looking for them) brought so much emotion.

I cried while I sang the song to my son, although he didn't seem to mind much, but I put him back in his crib because the experience was so sad for me.

My mother put herself through college in spite of her father's horrible views about what women should do back in the '60s and '70s, and always felt inferior to my aunt and grandmother, who stayed at home with their children. She even put herself through college (an art and teaching major) with the financial aid that was offered to children of WWII veterans at that time, which took a lot of guts, considering her father so vehemently believed that a woman's place was at home.

She went out of her way to ensure that I did not grow up poor the way that she did, but sadly, her learned behavior created so much damage for me that her love and best intentions backfired. The whole thing just makes me so sad.

I also remember how the movie "Mommy Dearest" really bothered her.

My husband has had a difficult day, and in spite of how emotional I'm feeling over this, and the work that he knows I'm doing in this area of my life, seems fairly apathetic and uninterested in the feelings that I'm experiencing, which is making me feel really resentful right now.

So I thought it best to post here, where people can empathize, understand, or at least understand the magnitude of the feelings that can arise from a simple song.

Thank you all for being here.

Willybluedog

Big hugs to you Plath,

What a beautiful thing to do, I am 90% positive my mom never sang to me, maybe when I was small,I know she didn't when I was old enough to remember, and my sister is four years younger and I don't remember mom singing to her either.

You must be such a wonderful mama, so sorry your husband is so self-absorbed, he is really missing out, I loved to watch my wife sing to our children, now that they are 11 & 13 I really miss the packable days, especially between 1 & 3 when even the smallest thing was a giant adventure.

Hang in there, you will be in my thoughts today.

Bill

dbh

Hello Plath,

Thank you for sharing.

My babies are now 9 and 11. They no longer like when I sing to them, but I have such wonderful memories of rocking them while they nursed and singing whatever songs came to my mind. For some reason I sang The Beatles' song "Eleanor Rigby" often. I was a fan of the Beatles when I was a child and I knew all the word to that song. I figured my children didn't understand the words and I liked the melody :-)

I too get sad when I think about the lives that my parents must have had. My father, the alcoholic in my life, grew up with TWO alcoholic parents. My mom grew up in a home with a verbally abusive mother. Seeing the generational aspect of abuse has actually helped me in my own recovery though. I think I have a little more empathy for my parents. I was angry and mad for so long. I'm at the point now where I honestly do think that they did the best that they could given their past, who they were/are, and the tools that they had available.

I still feel sad when I think about the lives that they/we could of had if they got help. My father has already passed away. My mother has pretty much isolated herself and is consumed with health issues. She hasn't seen her grandchildren in over three years. She doesn't want visitors and feels too sick to travel. I'm sad that my children don't have her in their lives. It's such a loss for both my mother and my children. However, I can not change my mother.

What I can change is me and the type of mother that I am. I sometimes look at my recovery as a way of honoring my parents. They weren't able to heal themselves, but they raised a daughter (me!) that is working hard on healing herself . I hope that my children grow up to be strong, functional, and emotionally healthy adults. I hope that the good traits of both of my parents (and they both do/did have good qualities) live on in me and my children.

Even though my husband is an ACA, he doesn't often like to listen to my "recovery talk". He is dealing with his past in a way that suites him. That is why I am so grateful to have message boards like SoberRecovery and face to face meetings!

Enjoy the time singing and dancing with you beautiful son!

db

Kialua

It took my husband a long time to listen to my "recovery talk" even though he lived through so much of it. It didn't influence him at all. I know I have told him about events as they happened but it didn't connect with him.

Like one time as teens he and his sister came to dinner at my house. A huge event –my parents didn't allow people in. They ate and visited and were polite enjoying themselves, BUT they weren't versed in HOW to eat in our house. We ate everything on the plate. Everything. They pushed their food around didn't like the tiny cut up carrots, didn't eat them, trimmed way too much fat off the pork chop, left some potatoes and gravy, left way too many crumbs off their cake, etc. As they sat there eating their way I could see my Dad and Mom fuming and watching their every move as my stomach turned in knots. My Dad actually turned red. After they left my Dad lit into to me with Mom right behind him fuming. Yelling that they could never eat over again, and punching the wall by my face screaming at me. ugh.

My SIL just recently recalled that lovely meal the other day. So I told her what drama it created and she was shocked. My parents were lovely people in her eyes as well as my husband, then boyfriend.

So I retold the story to my husband as well. This time he was shocked and sorry and so nice, why didn't I tell him before? Well, I did! at the time and many times since but it never seemed to matter to him.

I don't know. Our recovery journey is ours. Even though our spouses love us they just are not on the same journey yet and may never be and that is fine. I compare it to the first time I went on an exotic vacation and couldn't wait to tell everyone but they didn't really care until they went on one, then we communed about the beauty etc. I guess we can't expect others to take this trip with us. But dbh is right, we do have each other here.

Plath

Thanks everyone;

My husband generally tries to be supportive, but yeah...he can only hear so much talk along these lines before he just kind of wants to move on to something else.

My husband, like dbh mentioned, is also an ACA who deals with it in a different way, and that works for him, so most of the time that's fine.

He woke up this morning feeling pretty badly, apologized, and said that he really is interested in my recovery; he genuinely did have a stressful day at work, and family visiting from out of town, snow storms making everything kind of hectic, etc...so, none of us are perfect, eh?

Some days are more emotionally productive than others in our household.

Mostly, I just want to feel my feelings of grieving for my mother's life (although she is still alive), and the sadness that life has brought to her, despite the fact that she had the best intentions a mother could have.

It seems like life was very unfair to her, and she really did try. She just didn't know how to "un-learn" the behaviors her alcoholic father had taught her, and the skills she had learned to help her survive her childhood.

It's frustrating, because I think my mom almost comes close to possibly having dissociative personality disorder, as she is a great mom one day or one moment, and then a totally different person at other times.

I think the film "Mommy Dearest" really bothered her, because she was very much like Joan Crawford's character in that movie. I remember her flipping out on me when I was about four years old for hanging up a nice outfit on a wire hanger, before that scene from the movie had ever even made itself known.

Mostly, she was incessantly critical, belittling, nasty, and impossible to win an argument with because she took the lowest blows possible, and had to control *everything*.
Her favorite mantras for me were: "You're lazy, just like your dad. You have to have other people think for you, you're going to be one of those people standing in line for wellfare cheese", etc.

Then again, she made sure that I had the best Christmases and birthdays, and never had to want for anything. She really did make my special occasions special, taught me how to paint and be creative, and other things that mothers do for their children.

I read something in the red book in the PTSD section about how difficult it can be to identify triggers and experiences when some of us had parents who were on one hand caring and nurturing, and on the other hand could be cruel and just outright vicious.

I have some very distinct memories of things like being locked out of the house when I was about four years old, in the snow without a jacket, because I "wouldn't" brush my hair "right", and just standing outside with the hairbrush in my hand, crying, cold, confused, and frightened.
She would open the door, giving me hope that she was going to let me back inside the house, only to disapprove of my hair again, and refuse to let me back in.

But, when I look at what she had to overcome in her own childhood, and how much she *wanted* to give to me, I find it so sad and heart wrenching.
I learned later, as an adult, that my childhood friends were always somewhat afraid of her, afraid that she was going to start yelling about something out of the blue and freak out.

I assume that this is a part of my process, grieving for my parents' childhoods, as I have done before, but maybe that process is moving forward a bit more, so that I can change my behaviors and hope that my son will not grow up feeling the same feelings that I am right now.

Kialua

Sympathy for the devil huh? Like I shared, I never cared if my parents loved me or not. I don't know why but I didn't. As I found out about my parents childhood I still didn't care and didn't excuse them. I decided very young that I would never abuse my kids. I've shared here before that out of us six kids none of us beat our kids. So if I and all five of my siblings could do it, I feel they could have broken that cycle from their childhood too. I still held them accountable with no sympathy for their situations.

Harsh I know. But at the same time I know exactly what I am forgiving them for and not excusing any behavior. But it's easier for me to make that hard line because I can only remember about 14 times that were actual nice or at least neutral growing up, with the exception of the half hour supper meal. I wasn't tossed back and forth emotionally like you.

It does seem your mother had some mental health issues treating you like that, or was she drunk as well? I'm sorry that happened to you.

Plath

No, I don't think my mom was drunk. She drinks, and always has, but I think that growing up with a cruel, alcoholic father and her subsequent control issues have kept her drinking in check. Instead, she married an alcoholic.

I have been reading your responses on here, Kialua, and I've been meaning to tell you that I'm so sorry for the experiences you had as a child. You clearly understand that you didn't deserve it. Although we don't know each other in person, and I've only been using this forum for a short time, I know that I'm proud of you for breaking that cycle with your children.

I'm sure that my mom has mental health issues. I've worked for long periods of time in group homes for severely mentally disturbed people, and when it began to dawn on me that my mom wasn't really all that different from the residents I cared for, it can sometimes be easier to understand what's going on.

She's been diagnosed as bipolar, but I personally don't think that's the case. She's not manic-depressive, she seems (to me) to have an extreme personality disorder that she can hide from people for long periods of time if she wants to. But of course, I'm not a doctor, and I can't diagnose her.

Similar to your experience, it took my husband a few years to really start seeing the side of my mom that I had been telling him about for a long time. Now he gets it, and he's often totally baffled by her behavior as well.

I will not ever excuse my mom's behaviors or actions that were harmful to me, because it was just not right in any way, or justifiable.

But, I can also see her story, and it does make me sad for her...especially because, in my adult years, after separating myself geologically from her, I began to turn the behaviors she had passed on to me against her.

I think that the roles go both ways now, which creates a lot of fear, guilt, and anxiety for me. I've become so resentful and openly critical of my mother, and at some points ready to entirely cut her out of my life, that I think she's honestly afraid to make suggestions to me for fear of receiving the same treatment that she gave me as a child.

So, now that I realize that I've learned her behaviors (much more than I had ever realized before) and that they are horrible, toxic, and create terrible feelings for the people around me, I MUST work on un-learning those behaviors--before my son is old enough to understand them or I unwittingly make him a victim of the verbal abuse that I've been capable of dishing out in my personal relationships when triggered, which is pretty much all the time.

I have my mother's capacity for a vicious tongue, and I don't want to live like her anymore. I am not my mother. I do not want my husband to go from being a gregarious, confident man to a whipped dog like I have seen happen to my step-dad (although admittedly, my step-dad has never been a particularly kind or decent person, but like my mom he has a heart in all that blackness), and I NEVER want my son to feel the vicious verbal lash that I felt as a child.

If you're inclined to pray for people, I am asking for prayers and good energy as I struggle with breaking this horrible cycle.

Thanks so much for being here, everyone.

Thumper

Oh Plath,

Thank you so much for posting. My mom had a tragic childhood and some tragic parts to her adult life. I can relate to so much of what you wrote. I was not abused as a child. I was not hit or called names or anything like that. She did the best she could and did a lot of good things as a parent. We knew she loved us with all her heart and then some. I love my mother and miss her and don't have any resentment or hard feelings at all. But it was to much sometimes. With the flip of a switch she'd be unreasonably happy and then unbearably upset or unhappy and come unglued. She didn't get mean with us though so I do not have the resentment or feelings like must come from abuse. When I look back now it didn't have much of anything to do with my brother and I but it didn't feel like that at the time. The emotional boundaries were blurred. I can see that now but I find that I parent so similarly. It is so hard to change and I am so ashamed and afraid of my own behavior when I overreact. I do not want that for my kids. I do feel like I am learning. I am paying attention and I am trying every day to do better....and I'm not an alcoholic so I can pay attention. My mom has been gone for many years now so I didn't really know her as an adult. It is hard to reflect but there was some kind of mental health issue going on for her. It is so sad that it was not treated.

Plath

Hah...*geographically*, not "geologically". I did not "geologically" separate from my mom, hahah.

Oh, this is some sad stuff for me, and I don't mean to depress everyone. But, these are the feelings I'm experiencing right now, and I want to feel them rather than suppress them--and this seems like the safest place to do that.

My husband has actually been very supportive today, and sat with me while I listened to the Joan Baez song and cried, describing to him how sad it was for me that my mom loved me as much as I love my son, but she simply could not control her fear and anger. She didn't know how, and there was no one to show her. And then to have her only child grow to despise her, it just seems like a terrible tragedy.

Although I don't have so much hatred and anger towards my mom these days, it still seems very tragic.
And, on top of it all, my step-dad's alcoholism has all but ruined them financially, and now he is constantly on the brink of death, hooked up to oxygen but still smoking and drinking.
...but, I know that she could be more compassionate towards him, but she's still just letting her behavior fly, even though he could die any time.

I do feel sorry for my mom, and the tragedy that her hopes and dreams have turned into.

*BUT* I do not want to repeat this cycle, so I guess for right now I'll just keep posting what I'm going through on here, and see about maybe starting some of the step work, although I don't have a sponsor.
I have to start somewhere...

Plath

Thank you, Thumper.

I know what you mean when you talk about feeling ashamed when you overreact. That is what has been happening to me lately, since I started posting on here and becoming even more aware of my behavior.

Now that I know I'm trying to change those behaviors, I do feel so ashamed when I find that I'm acting out on them, even a little.

Big hugs to you, if you want 'em, and just know that you're aware of your behaviors and trying to change them, and that's a big part of becoming who we truly are, and not just becoming our parents.

Kialua

Saying a prayer. You are (becoming?) very aware of the dynamics at play here. That is half the battle they say. Yes it is very hard to get over the anger that our parents deserve from us. I only could do it with the help of my HP, Jesus, and it was the hardest I think I have ever done. Not because they needed to be forgiven but I needed to be free. I may reference the circumstances of my childhood but it was resolved long ago. There is nothing wrong anger if it serves a purpose to healing.

My siblings and I also inherited the rage, to one extent or another, modeled to us by both parents. I have had to apologize on more than one occasion to my child. It is something that I had to monitor constantly for many years, but I am light years ahead of my parents, ha ha. It's great that you are aware now and can focus on that with your child.

bluebelle

I remember my mom singing lullabies to me. It was beautiful, and I really enjoyed it. My mom has also been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. It's hard to describe, but sometimes she was a really good mother. She would do things for me or play with me. Other times, she was abusive and neglectful. It was almost impossible for me to detect when a change in her personality would occur. She also is a drug addict, so obviously that didn't help.

I have more respect for my mother than my father. She at least tried to be a parent at times. She could do it for awhile, but then would have terrible rages. Other times, she would more or less disappear. I know that sounds awful, but it's more than my alcoholic father ever did. He tried to kill my mom when she was pregnant with me.

It sounds like you have some compassion for your mom. I understand because I have compassion for my mom, too. She is a miserable person. My mom has brought most of her situations upon herself. However, it doesn't help that she is ruled by anger, sadness, and anxiety.

Plath

True all of that, Kialua and Bluebelle.

Yes, I mostly picked up the rage from my mom, although I don't know if I actually inherited it. I would never consider doing some of the horrible things to my son that she did to me as a child that didn't necessarily involve hitting me or anything, but were abusive and neglectful nonetheless.

Thankfully, I seem to have inherited mostly my father's genes. When I look at the red book and the "types" of family members, my father is the undependable one...but he has a wonderful, kind heart--in spite of being raised by a schizophrenic mother, and then taken into foster care with his siblings, only for all of them to be physically and sexually abused.

I looked up to my father, but sadly he remarried a woman who was jealous and insecure, and after being one of the only people I could look up to, who treated me with kindness, he slowly became immersed in his new family.

Thankfully, my mom's mom and sister were very loving people in my life, and I don't know if I would have made it this far without them.

At least my father expresses his remorse for those actions, and although I still can't count on him to act on his good intentions (visiting his grandson, for example, or calling regularly), I know that he loves me, and I can talk to him about real life stuff. That's better than nothing.

Bluebelle, I can completely relate to how you feel about your mom.
Thank you for the prayers, Kialua, much love and support going out to all of you who have been commenting on my posts, sharing your experiences on this forum, and being here for all of us.

dbh

So much I want to share ...

My mother also wasn't violent. She was mostly emotionally unavailable. Her mother was verbally abusive and angry most of the time. Therefore, my mother didn't want to be anything like her. It also caused my mother to be very uncomfortable with angry in general. So we were basically told that we had to be "happy" all of the time. Negative emotions weren't tolerated in our home. When I was angry/mad/sad, I was told to go to my room and come out when I had a smile on my face.

So here I am, almost 50 years old trying to figure out how to have healthy emotions.

My father was mostly a happy go lucky drunk. Everyone loved him. He did have a violent side that would come out occasionally. It was scary and unpredictable. It was something that we would run from and not confront.

My mother to this day has problems expressing her emotions. When I was a child, if she got mad she would not talk to us or retreat to her room. This behavior caused me to be hyper-vigilant of other people's emotions. I'm always trying to figure out if I did something wrong or if people are mad at me.

Even though I too am doing everything in my power not to be like my mother. I found myself doing the same thing with my children!?! Hiding in my bedroom and/or not talking. It breaks my heart when I hear my 11 year old daughter ask, "Are you okay Mama?"

Thanks for letting me share.

db

Plath

Thank you so much for your shares, dbh.

I really do get a lot of...I guess "relief" from hearing other people's stories, as sad as it makes me for the experiences people have gone through. But it does give me hope, and I appreciate that tremendously.

I am wanting to start my first step, but I don't have a sponsor. I plan to go to a face-to-face on Saturday (weather permitting, and assuming I will wake up on time for it), but I'm very wary of letting people into my life to guide me in my recovery as personally as a sponsor usually does.

I suppose my experience with other 12 step groups caused me to realize that not everyone who is willing to sponsor (or even those who have a lot of years in recovery of any kind) are dependable...

I am wondering if anyone here has started their first step alone, or with the support of online groups like this one?
At least until I find a sponsor that I feel comfortable with, which could take a while...

Cottontop1

[Q

UOTE=Plath;3247619]No, I don't think my mom was drunk. She drinks, and always has, but I think that growing up with a cruel, alcoholic father and her subsequent control issues have kept her drinking in check. Instead, she married an alcoholic.

I have been reading your responses on here, Kialua, and I've been meaning to tell you that I'm so sorry for the experiences you had as a child. You clearly understand that you didn't deserve it. Although we don't know each other in person, and I've only been using this forum for a short time, I know that I'm proud of you for breaking that cycle with your children.

I'm sure that my mom has mental health issues. I've worked for long periods of time in group homes for severely mentally disturbed people, and when it began to dawn on me that my mom wasn't really all that different from the residents I cared for, it can sometimes be easier to understand what's going on.

She's been diagnosed as bipolar, but I personally don't think that's the case. She's not manic-depressive, she seems (to me) to have an extreme personality disorder that she can hide from people for long periods of time if she wants to. But of course, I'm not a doctor, and I can't diagnose her.

Similar to your experience, it took my husband a few years to really start seeing the side of my mom that I had been telling him about for a long time. Now he gets it, and he's often totally baffled by her behavior as well.

I will not ever excuse my mom's behaviors or actions that were harmful to me, because it was just not right in any way, or justifiable.

But, I can also see her story, and it does make me sad for her...especially because, in my adult years, after separating myself geologically from her, I began to turn the behaviors she had passed on to me against her.

I think that the roles go both ways now, which creates a lot of fear, guilt, and anxiety for me. I've become so resentful and openly critical of my mother, and at some points ready to entirely cut her out of my life, that I think she's honestly afraid to make suggestions to me for fear of receiving the same treatment that she gave me as a child.

So, now that I realize that I've learned her behaviors (much more than I had ever realized before) and that they are horrible, toxic, and create terrible feelings for the people around me, I MUST work on un-learning those behaviors--before my son is old enough to understand them or I unwittingly make him a victim of the verbal abuse that I've been capable of dishing out in my personal relationships when triggered, which is pretty much all the time.

I have my mother's capacity for a vicious tongue, and I don't want to live like her anymore. I am not my mother. I do not want my husband to go from being a gregarious, confident man to a whipped dog like I have seen happen to my step-dad (although admittedly, my step-dad has never been a particularly kind or decent person, but like my mom he has a heart in all that blackness), and I NEVER want my son to feel the vicious verbal lash that I felt as a child.

If you're inclined to pray for people, I am asking for prayers and good energy as I struggle with breaking this horrible cycle.

Thanks so much for being here, everyone.

[/QUOTE]

Pathwaytofree

I can definitely empathize and offer you a hug.

Family pains keep living on for the next generations until someone finally breaks the cycle.

Mommie Dearest is extremely triggering for me. My mother's rages were just like hers.

It sounds like your mother truly did the best she could for you, damages and all. It's so hard to see past the damages and see the love underneath it all. It's a daily struggle for me in that respect, too. When it comes down to it, we can only do the best we can with what we have. And when we know better we hopefully choose to do better.

Be kind to yourself.

Pathwaytofree

This to me is a huge amount of growth. I'm trying to get to this point. It's a real paradigm shift to see that these people wanted to love us, but just couldn't because of their own brokenness.

I started having compassion for my abusive parent once I saw things differently.