TiredandSpent

So about an hour ago there's a knock on the door and it was one police man. I saw my son standing in the same shorts and T he had the day I threw him out, but he did have on a pair of white gym shoes. My son was across the street and a few houses down and the cop car was up two houses parked behind a bush.

The cop identified himself and said my son wanted his possessions, could he come in and get them. I said no. He didn't live here and I explained what happened. Cop told me that I'm not allowed to just kick him out, I had to go through the courts. I said I was allowed to and if he came back into this house I would press assault charges against him on my behalf and that of my minor son and I would get a restraining order. Cop reminded me I had to use the court to throw him out and I said I will take whatever steps necessary and if the cop let him back into the house, he might as well sit at the dining room table and monitor because otherwise he'd be back within an hour for domestic dispute. Cop believed me.

He asked a few questions about what happened and what kind of drugs AS used. I said pot, alcohol and described the cans with the brown smoke residue and he said that could be oxy, around here it's popular for kids to smoke them.

I said he could have his dog and his scooter which was in the backyard, and that what was his left in the house we'd take to his work, but I didn't know his stuff from his brothers'. I said AS could sue me if he didn't like the solution.

Cop went back and talked to AS in the street for about 10 minutes. Then they both got into the cop car and drove off.

It leaves some thoughts: wearing the exact same clothes? Didn't he get the clothes his brother dropped off at work?

So he didn't go up north back to school with his friends AND he didn't show up at my house begging, so he found a place, and a stable enough of a place that he can have possessions. ALso he's getting good advice that he went through the police department rather than showing up and causing trouble.

But it makes me sad. It just makes me so sad watching him back off from the house with a police officer between us. This is my son.

frankly

Why not just give him his things and be done with it? That way there is no further reason for him to continue to contact you in regards to his things.

ctg492

I am so sorry

Ann

Maybe take time with his brother, sort out what is his, and then arrange for him to have whatever is left of his. I agree with Frankly, the sooner you are done with this the sooner you can find your peace.

Keeping you all in my prayers.

Hugs

FT

Your son followed the rules and did what he was supposed to do -- get a police escort to help him get his things while supervised. You, on the other hand, could not resist the opportunity to engage him yet again in this silent tug of war of symbolic violence.

frankly

(((Tiredandspent)))

I'm a pretty straight forward person, or at least I try to be. I've followed your posts and I really feel for you. From an outsider who really has no idea all the details except for what you have posted, there are two issues that I'm not sure you have thought about. I hope I'm not out of line by asking. In your anger (justifiable), are you punishing him by with holding his things? Could you subconsciously be holding onto them so that you still have contact or still have that line of connection to know what is happening with him?

I ask because when I kicked Mike out I did exactly what you are doing almost to the T. At first I was so angry that I just made myself unavailable for him to get his things. Then later, it was always a lifeline of contact, even negative contact. It almost gave me a sense of control over something that I really didn't have control over. But I sure as heck had control over where, how and when he got his stuff. It made me miserable. I would look at something of his and either cry like a baby or get so mad that I wanted to hunt him down and smack some sense into him (figuratively).

I was punishing him and myself. It wasn't until I was ready to let go did I finely relinquish control over his stuff. The day I had it all delivered to him is the day I finely accepted that he was not coming back, ever. For me, it was a husband. For you, this is your son.

I could be wrong, but I suspect that deep down inside you really don't want him gone, you just want him to stop doing the things he is doing. I suspect that all of this anger is really just your self preservation covering up the unbearable pain.

Like I said, I could be wrong and I'm sorry if I am. I just wanted to put that out there for you to consider just in case any of it applies to you.

All said with respect and concern for you. A child (even an adult one) can hurt you when no one else can. The wound usually runs very deep and tends to fester under the surface until we recognize it.

Sending Hugs and Prayers your way.
B

frankly

failedtaper - that comment was really uncalled for, it even offended me. We are all hurting here. As my grandma used to say, if you don't have something nice to say (or can't say it nicely) then don't say anything because it really doesn't help. It's like reaching over and twisting the knife that someone already put in your back.

("You, on the other hand, could not resist the opportunity to engage him yet again in this silent tug of war of symbolic violence." )
What was the point of that statement?

FT

Silence is complicity.

I tend to be too wordy, and when I do, that can come across as offensive because I try to stand up for the one person who can't speak to the issue here. And sometimes I think that needs to be done.

That's all.

No offense intended. At least I got your attention.

FT

TiredandSpent

His things were scattered all over the house, from under my bed to stuffed under couches to spread over his floor, the bathroom, that shed where he did most of his drugging, in the family room under couched under the cushions in in the family room, in cars, etc...

And they were nasty. He never did laundry, and the stuff especially in his room were awful. covered with urine and dog feces and vomit and food. WHen we cleaned his room, roaches everywhere.

As we found the clothes this week we've been washing them. This afternoon my middle son and I finished. I needed his help because i didn't know his clothes from the other two boys. Three garbage bags of laundry. I don't know what to do with his books and knicknacks. When I went through his desk I found xanax, so I stopped. a box of stuff.

The other things he wants is electronics. I don't know a PS2 from a wii from a nintendo. So when my youngest got home, he sorted it out plus cords and stuff. Apparently we have 2 PS3's a PS 2, 2 wii's, and 100 games. The boys decided what's his and from what I can see, not much and no cords or controllers and only a handful of games. They always bought them together or traded them or passed them around and some work and some don't and different games belong to certain systems. He gets what he gets. I know nothing about those.

He had 4 months to get his stuff together. He was given fair warning 6 weeks prior to d-day. He had a whole week alone in the house while we were on vacation. He did NOTHING but make the mess worse. I work and not only that but we've had auditing and I'm been working 12-15 hour days. A lack on planning on his part does not mean the rest of us have to hop to when he snaps his fingers.

Well, we finished it this afternoon. And took it to his work--and it was closed. It's like Denny's; it's NEVER closed. But there was a sign on the door saying it would be open between 4-7 tomorrow. So we'll take it over again then.

I'm not holding his nasty clothes out of anger or hoping to interact with him. He left a HUMUNGOUS mess and I cleaned the areas that were most important to us, the parts we live in first. His room got tackled mostly last week and finished this afternoon. None of us thought he should be a priority.

After all, he didn't make himself a priority, he made no effort collect his own stuff when he had ample opportunity. He's got no business expecting us to spend the little free time we have making his stuff a priority. So he had to wait 2 and half weeks. He's known since May 24 he was going to be out in Dec. It was reinforced just before Thanksgiving, and again a week before his due date.

But it's done. 3 bags and a box are in the back of my car to drop off tomorrow.

You know what got me the most besides the fact that I'm glad he found a safe viable place? His brother folded all his clothes. I would have just hauled them out of the dryer into garbage bags, but his brother folded and stacked them nicely and packed them nicely away in the bags. It's far more than AS dserves and will never be appreciated, but I really like my middle son for doing that.

It's kind of sad that that's all the stuff he has in the whole world. Surely AS should have more than 3 garbage bags and a recycling box to show for 22 years of living. What happened to all his stuff? His pictures and momentos and stuff? All those years of Xmas presents and bday gifts?

I told the cop that his scooter was in the backyard and I would like him to take it today. He didn't. I also told the cop he could have his dog. But the dog is still here.

As for wanting to engage with him. I don't. I don't want to talk to him. I've heard all the promises and they are a waste of time. When he's self supporting and has done something about his substance abuse problems, then yes. I want him to do well, I want him to succeed; but he's got nothing to offer right now and the thought of interacting with him makes me tired. I'm glad he brought the cop. Like I said in my first post, it showed good sense. Someone else must have counseld him to do it because he doesn't have good sense. I'm glad he's got a place to stay and seems to have kept his job (a week before Xmas he had a fight with his boss and with all the partying he did at my house I sort of wondered if he got himself fired).

I'm resigned, relieved and good with the idea of not interacting with him for the next two or three years; I pretty much assume I won't know if he's okay or not--so it was a bonus to know a little and that he's okay, and got someone helping him.

TiredandSpent

I'm not even interested in interacting with him by proxy. My mother said yesterday that if he needed it, he could live with her. she has NO idea of what's she's talking about. She will be chewed up and spit out. She's 70. She doesn't need to deal with addiction at this point.

I told her I recommended that before she promises him anything she go to nar-anon for at least 3 months to get an idea of what she will be up against. I told her also I would not rescue her from him if he installed himself in her house and he couldn't get him out. I told her--and no one who hasn't been there believes this--but I told her that abuse problems cannot be solved by love, ideas, energy of others.

And I told her that I was not going to deal with anyone's addiction any more, that my 30's and 40's have been devoted to various stages and types of addictions and I am just worn out. And I would not listen to any of her problems with him if she took him on. If she brought them up or complained, I would tell her to go to nar-anon and change the subject or even hang up on her. I. Will. Not. Deal. With. Addiction. ANYMORE. I did my turn and I got chewed up and spit out and I'm as sorry as can be that I lost my son to this problem, but I AM DONE.

In these last two weeks, I have been happier and more at peace than I have in years. Right now I am only living with people who are nice to me. Do you know how long it's been since I've lived only with people who were nice to me? Since 2006. The three of us left are happier. My youngest especially. I wondered a bit about my middle, but we talked while he was folding his brothers clothes today and he is done with AS too, he said he missed him sometimes but he was glad AS was gone.

I don't know how many people identify with this, but I had my kids kind of close together. There were years of naps and diapers and Barney and bottles. My whole life was submerged in baby and toddlerhood. And once the last one was out of diapers and talking and off to nursery school, I was just over the baby stage of life. I was done with babies. Loved it while I had them, but once they passed that stage, I was DONE.

Well, I'm DONE with addicts and substance abuse and alcoholics and dry drunks and wet drunks and highs and hoping and recovery (except mine) and figuring things out and making hard decisions about impossible situations. I'm DONE.

And altho I didn't tell my mother this, I know in my heart that if she takes in my AS, I'm more or less done with her too. I won't cut her off or anything like that. I'll accept her calls, but I won't visit and I won't call her, and if she tries to tell me anything about the problems she's having with AS, I'll cut her off and change the subject or have to go. She'll get my brother involved, who believes all these problems would go away if I was 'firm' with AS and set goals and boundaries and consequences for AS. (he's going to get chewed up and spit out too--he thinks he can manage this problem). But I just can't do addiction any more, in any form. Not mine own, not my loved ones, not by proxy.

I've got about 25 years of life left if I'm lucky, and I know how fast 25 years goes. I don't want to spend another minute on addiction.

tjp613

T&S, you sound a lot like me with those thoughts of how tired I am of dealing with all this sh*t!!! My youngest just turned 18 this week and there's this part of me that just wants to be DONE with kids and their problems and I just want to enjoy the time I have left! I hear myself saying, "I just want my life back!!"...but most recently I have said, "Well, but this IS my life!" Acceptance, for me, seems to be an issue.

Just want to say that I feel ya, sister.

TiredandSpent

Would that be my AS?

I assure you that he absolutely has no trouble speaking up for himself; and when his words and manipulations and lies don't work, he resorts to violence to get his point across. He absolutely does not need YOU to speak up for him.

If I am not mistaken you are a former addict yourself. It has struck me on a couple of my threads that you seem to over-identify with the poor mistreated misunderstood addict. I think you've also mentioned that you have codependency issues, and I see them playing out here. Poor kid who just wants his stuff but has to deal with a mean mom who just is further burdening little ole him with her anger.

Why shouldn't he wait 2 or 3 or even 4 weeks for his stuff? He had ample time to get it out. He didn't. The logical consequence of not packing your stuff up in the weeks before you are going to move out is ... YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR STUFF READY FOR MOVING OUT. The logical consequence of breaking and entering someone else's house and TRASHING it is ... THEY RUN YOU OUT IMMEDIATELY UPON DISCOVERY. The logical consequence of disrespecting someone else's possessions is....THEY DON'T CARE MUCH ABOUT YOURS.

Why not give permit AS the 'dignity' of facing his consequences or does that make you too uncomfortable and you are giving into your codependency in a misguided attempt to soften his fall?

Poor kid, the one person who cannot speak to the issue.

In case you didn't notice, AS did just fine speaking up for himself today by getting the police to intercede for him.

TiredandSpent

Deep down, I don't know. But on the surface and middle down, I actually am ready for him to be gone. I have to think and feel more about it. But this last week I've been happy, it's like when he was gone those two weeks one the only 40 hour a week job he's ever had. Life hummed along well, I knew he was good, he wasn't here but everything was fine.

The last week felt okay. It felt like it should feel if he had good away to college or went to Europe for a work study semester, or moved out of state for a job. It felt right. And then something would remind me that while it felt right, it wasn't right: it ended badly and the situation is such a shame.

Such a shame.

And then the sadness would come. And then I'd let it go as quickly as possible, and a bit later it would be all right, like he was just away at college. In that sadness and that quick letting go and diverting myself, I think there is a lot of unexplored pain. He was my baby, my toddler, my excited little boy telling my how his t-ball coach liked him best because he gave him the t-shirt with a number one on the back. He was the goof ball at Christmas and the over excited preteen at Halloween. He was the one who took his little brother out to the parking lot when they went to the movie the Green Latern because it was too scary and missed seeing a movie he'd been looking forward to for weeks, and was good natured about keeping his brother amused until everyone else was finished with the movie. Etc....

But just as all solutions and all decisions don't have to be made today, all pain does not have to be explored right now. I'm doing the right thing. It just takes time to see results, and the results I want are completely out of my hands and in a way not even my business.

So I'm okay on the surface and for the most part several layers down. For most of 2011 I cried every single day and i haven't cried since I forced him out. It feels right, I can almost feel healing taking place on many level and in many directions with me and the other kids. My daughter comes back on Monday, and when I talked to her on the phone, she sounded better. I'm not even going to tell her about the police unless it comes up naturally; she's just excited and talking about the other things going on in life.

So on the surface I'm pretty happy, and under that I'm all right and healing, and under that I'm disappointed and sad, and under that I get a little fuzzy: I sense the tragedy of the situation, and probably under that is a lot of pain. Like a pimple, I'm sure it'll work it's way up. I'm in no hurry to deal with it. Hopefully I can chew it up in little pieces as I can manage...

I have group and a personal therapist, they never let unpleasant things lie hidden...

FT

He can't speak here, can he.

If you really want to know, I would not classify myself as "a former addict" as you so kindly put it. I am a non-drinker, and I am a non-substance-abuser. I'm not really an "ex" anything, although I did become addicted to oxycodone as a result of severe osteoarthritis that led to double total knee replacement surgery, which caused me to have a new respect for who "those addicts" can be. Yes, I now try to help others quit oxycodone. Which really has little to do with your situation.

My qualification for trying to help you, despite your anger which is even directed at me, is my experience as a mother of grown sons, both of whom "threw away" their 20's, only to become successful young men in their 30's, despite very similar behavior on my behalf that you are demonstrating now.

Since you do not want my advice, I will just say that your seething anger can only destroy you, and from what I can tell over the course of your many posts, you show no signs of it dying down.

It isn't so much that I "over-identify with the poor mistreated misunderstood addict" as that I see the potential in your son that you cannot. I speak from the experience of a mother who has had the benefit of hindsight. But you don't want to listen.

If you want to call me an "ex-addict", believing that somehow disqualifies me from sharing my experience with you, that's up to you.

Sometimes I wish that someone had had the nerve to call me out on my own hysterical rants that substituted for coping behavior at the time I was going through what you are now.

The vindictiveness in your words is painful to read. I give up, so you won't be bothered by me again.

TiredandSpent

He has no interest in speaking up here or at any 12 step group. Although he's very interested in people bullying his mother into not adhering to boundaries and in anyone who will help him avoid consequences. PM me and I'll give you his phone number and you can commiserate with him in person and represent him here, in his own words. He'll like that. He never liked that I went to Al-anon.

Addicted is addicted. Although you certainly may classify yourself anyway you want, it matters not at all to me.

As for you think I cannot see his potential? LOLOLOLOL.

DesertEyes

Allright people. The purpose of SR is too be supportive with personal experience. If you find your emotions stirring then kindly do _not_ post. Go walk around the block. Breathe some air. Come back tomorrow.

Mike
Moderator, SR

catlovermi

T&S -

Your anger is serving you well to establish very clear boundaries and to move forward toward a healthier place, when the dust subsides after some time. Anger in self-defense is normal and healthy; it is only unhealthy if after it serves it purpose it does not resolve but this is not yet time for that point in the process.

Recovery taught me that the emotion anger exists to serve a purpose - it is an emotion mounted in defense of threat against self. Anger is not something to be avoided or stuffed down, but rather worked through and examined as to source. Folks with no self-esteem have trouble mounting anger, sometimes, because they on some level do not value themselves enough to mount a defense. In the absence of healthy self-respect, we cannot properly mount an angry defense when appropriate. Anger is a good ******** when examined - an appropriate anger tells us that our self is being threatened and is in need of defense of some sort.

I for one support your application of boundaries.

And I see good things in your middle son, as the result of this trauma - a small silver lining in a horrid story.

Sending support,

CLMI

chicory

I know this is all so hard for you and all involved. But this is your son, and accepting that he is sick might make you soften a bit, and just let him have his clothes at least. you mentioned surprise that he was still in the clothes he had on when he was made to leave your house. maybe he needs his clothes.
i understand being angry at the situation. but there is a saying that may help. hate the drugs, not the addict.

i guess anger is understandable. when you have given them so much love, and then they throw their lives away, it hurts. but doing things in anger, like making him wait for his stuff wont help things, imho. just keeps the anger fueled between you.

I wish you all the best. i hope your son finds recovery. and that you find peace.

TiredandSpent

Did you not see above that he was given a bag of clothes LAST WEEK, and thus BECAUSE HE GOT A BAG OF CLOTHES LAST WEEK I was surprised he was wearing exactly what he wore the day he left? It made me question whether the people at work passed on THE CLOTHES WE DROPPED OFF LAST WEEK. I mentioned it in a prior thread and also earlier in this thread:

This man is not shivering naked out in the cold.

You know what I was doing when the cop knocked on the door? I was rolling out dough making sausage mustard tapanadas for a party I'm going to this afternoon. Life goes on, you know. Am I supposed to drop everything and scurry around because it's convenient for AS? Nope, he CHOSE to leave it to me, so he CHOSE to allow me to do it on my time schedule. And for all that ultimately it resulted in just 4 bags of clothes (one given to him LAST WEEK), it was a lot of work--combined with all the other work he left behind him when he CHOSE to trash my house and leave the mess for me (it looked like something out of Hoarders, and I took pictures of the mess which I can post if it's necessary, although I don't see why I should have to).

I get up at 5:15 am to go to work and have been getting home at 7 pm because of the wall-to-wall audit. I'm tired. I have 3 other children, I have to eat and shower and launder and go to meetings/counseling and shop for us/myself and I like to be in bed at 10; it just doesn't interest me to spend the 3 hours I have free running filling AS's needs. The first week he was gone I concentrated on the garbage and dishes and securing the house and putting things away and wiping things down and washing the bedding.

Last weekend we used a roach defogger on his room and moved all the furniture (he loved to throw food wrappers and cans under the couches) and bleached down everything and got a carpet/upholstery shampooer and hauled the couch cushions out to air in the sun (somebody urinated on them). And LAST WEEKEND we (mostly my middle son) put together a BAG OF CLOTHES and dropped them off for AS. He had a respectable amount to get his through the week.

He wants more, fine, but I don't see why I should hop to on his schedule. He had plenty of opportunity to make these arrangements himself and CHOSE not to. He chose to party instead. Just as he gets choices, so do I and I choose to make my home liveable and comfortable for myself and my other children before I choose to make life comfortable for AS. I choose to sleep 8 hours a night. I choose to attend a party this weekend and contribute a platter of food. Not unreasonable on my part at all.

People really, REALLY don't like it when former doormats stand up and say, no more, I come first, not you. They think it's (insert whiny voice) meeeeeen. But AS is not a priority any more in my life; I'm a priority, the other kids are a priority, my home, my job, my friends are priorities ahead of him. He's still on the list, but nowhere near the top. I'm certainly not a priority in AS's life, so it should work well. At least for me. When you are a professional mooch, it's kind of inconvenient and anger-provoking when your doormat stands up and says no more. However, I suspect he's got another doormat in place, so he's going to be fine for a while. Probably not as comfortable as he was here, but not too badly off for someone who only wants to work 10 hours a week, do nothing for himself and spend what little he earns on pot, alcohol and who knows what else.

I'll work him and his needs in as I have time. I'm surprised anyone beside AS would have a problem with that.

keltie

Tired, I just wanted to say I'm sorry. I think your anger is helping you to set boundaries, as said by catlover. It's just that as a mother, your posts make me sad and I hope someday your son will pull himself out of this horrible place and reconcile with you. (hugs)