TheBrightside

Warm greetings, all.
My goal by posting here is to gather useful tools and information on how I can approach and successfully intervene with my wife.
Some quick background:
I am a non-drinker, didn't (knowingly) have a sip until I was 24. Even now, it's rare for me to finish a beer, let alone two.
She was a party-girl through high school and college. Her mom is an alcoholic, her family is riddled with addiction of sorts, though not necessarily always alcohol.
My wife is almost a daily drinker. If we have something to drink, she'll drink it today. On weeknights, she stays responsible, but on weekends, she binges uncontrollably. This is where the problems arise. I'm a bit of a fun-sponge, and she likes to cut loose. I freely acknowledge that there are underlying issues, but cutting those short, I don't like her when she's drunk. This leads me to not going out with her, which leads to her going out with friends that encourage her binge.

Last night her phone died, with me not knowing how to get a hold of her. She drove home, stumbled in the door at one o'clock in the morning. On my voicemail was a message from her sister that reported she was staying at a friend's place and was passed out at nine. In addition to the internal health risks of drinking that much, I'm worried that if she drives in that state she'll kill herself, or worse, somebody else.

Can you please help me come up with strategies to help her?

Thanks much.

suki44883

Welcome to SR! You will find a lot of support here. Please read the stickie posts at the top of this forum for some really helpful information.

So sorry to know you are dealing with this. It really can cause irreparable damage to a marriage if it goes on for very long. Please know that you can't control her and if she wants to drink, she is going to drink. There are things you can do to minimize the damage, such as making it impossible for her to drive while drinking. If she has to depend on friends for transportation, it might curtail her drunk fests. Also, if she does get behind the wheel after drinking, you might consider calling the police. While that may sound drastic, it just might prevent her from harming or killing herself of some innocent person.

Have you considered attending al-anon meetings? They can be extremely helpful by giving you face-to-face support from others who are dealing with the same issues. You will also learn how to detach from her actions so they don't affect your own serenity.

Again, welcome to SR! I'm sure others will be along to give you support and let you know things they did that were helpful to them. Please keep reading and posting; it will help.

langkah

You could play the long game.

After the next disaster during the following day or two when she's feeling extreme shame and remorse she'll probably agree if you suggest seeing a therapist to get back in your good graces.

Have one selected that you have already seen and been honest with.

Since she'll lie you'll need to be there too. Let the professional paint a rosy picture of treatment. It's not your idea so you won't be the one she'll later hate.

Rehab has a very slim chance of working as you'd like it to, so figure the money is wasted entirely and there's an even chance she'll make a new friend while in there. When she's out, if her sister starts calling again for overnight free passes you'll at least know.

Outlook isn't good, wish I could say otherwise. She might be desperate to get sober in 10 or 20 years which could propell her in a good direction, but you'll not have anything to do with that. Even with that degree of willingness it won't mean she'll be able to. Few alcoholics stay sober after deciding they want to more than anything else.

Best advice I could give is to not make any important decisions based on her someday getting sober. It's highly unlikely, and you may wind up hurting yourself by acting otherwise.

m1k3

Hi BrightSide and welcome.

I am not going to give advice but I will share my experience of being married to an AW (alcoholic wife). We separated a little over 9 months ago after 36 years of marriage.

One of the biggest things I learned here and in al-anon is the 3 c's.

I didn't cause it.
I can't control it.
I can't cure it.

There was nothing I could do to make her want to get better. She had to want that for her self. It didn't matter what I did or didn't do, drinking was her choice.

I have been through an intervention, multiple detoxes, rehabs, visits to the emergency room and stays at mental health centers. None of it made a difference because she was not ready to stop the pills and drinking.

Now the good news. There is hope for you. You have the chance to make your life better. You can be whole, centered and happy in spite of your wife's drinking. That can be done by posting here and going to Al-Anon. That prescription saved my life, literally.

Al-anon can provide you with a set of tools and the skills to use them. I went from a very dark place to one where I enjoy my life again. I am strong, centered and most of the time happy. I am still working through things but now I have to the tools and support to do it in a healthy manner.

Your friend,

Isollae

Hugs. My heart goes out to you...you and your wife sound alot like me and my hubby.

We've been together 20 years and he has become much more responsible about drinking then he once was. Hes no longer living in a constant desire to party and he no longer seems to feel that when hes drinking, hes the life of the party. He has learned to have fun sober and to replace some of his party boy values with adult values. His friends have become sober adults that he respects instead of people stuck in that same party/play loop. Hes responsible about work, bills etc that keep things together.

Thats the good part.

Things that did work to help him bring himself under more control with drinking and partying were so small compared to want you want to do. It did no good to reason with him. I don't think there are words kind enough, loving enough, rational enough etc that I could have spoken to help him change or want to change. Words asking for change, no matter how well chosen or spoken, are still criticism and are received as such by him. They cast me in the role of authority, and he loves to defy authority. Its part of his self-image.

So how do I tell him what I think and feel if I can't tell him directly without triggering him to do the exact opposite of what I've show concern about?

One: I don't even try in any way if he's had even one drink. I swear how he thinks changes the minute before he takes that first sip. And once hes had more, then his thinking is also impaired by the alcohol itself. Talk only when hes totally sober.

Two: don't ask for change. Gently tease him in front of people whos opinion matters to him. Tell them about all the stupid dangerous things he does when hes drinking. Mention your concerns to them. But only to them. I speak freely to his parents about my hubbys worst behaviors. I never mention it to any one he does not value and preferably respect. He hates it and has let me know this and I have explained to him that I know that they will love him no matter what he does and thats why I speak of things to them. I also point out that his parents treat him as an adult and that if they did not, I would not speak freely to them. (it doesn't sound like your wifes parents are ones to speak freely to) I point out that I never mention anything to my own family because although they're the ones that love me the most and could provide me with the support I need...they would hate him if I did. In front of his friends I crack jokes about his behavior. Its hard to keep your self-image of the wild happy go lucky James Dean party boy if even your drunken friends say whoa...that ain't cool dude! Believe me, those drunken buddys will take your side in a heartbeat against your loved one if your not playing the role of authority but instead cast yourself as friend. They'll do it with all the laughter and happiness that you can't bring to it yourself. In all of this, always keep your choice of words free of blame and accusation. Be your loved ones friend with the integrity to not join him and a spirit that can still laugh....even if you really want to scream or cry.

Three: when you sense a receptive moment such as hes feeling guilty and reproaching himself already, then ask for important rules. Not things like quit drinking, stop doing this to yourself and to us or think of what your doing to your kid. Ask for things like take a cab home or let me drive.

So the good part is that alcoholics can change and we can help them to do so.

The bad part is that the only tool I've found that works is shame, embarrassment etc. Anything that tears down his illusion of being oh so on top when hes drinking. Its HARD to do and still act in the role of his friend, and the instant you leave the role of friend, you take two steps backwards. I've yet to meet someone who wants a parent, only people who enjoying being with their best friend.

The bad part is also that I never can be myself as long as I'm with him. Responding to his problems in these ways is not who I ever was nor is it who I would choose to be. Its how I've found I have to react in order to stay with my alcoholic and see improvement. The bad part is also that he has never quit drinking permanently. He has quit at times on his own initiative and in simple self-disgust but it never lasts, my love and support doesn't help because he has never admitted he has a problem....only how he feels about himself matters and self-disgust never lasts. Sometimes he still has a night where he wants to be that old happy go lucky party boy. Hes learned to be more adult about it, but his spirit still wants to be the carefree little boy whos the life of the party. Even though he knows that hes not; when he drinks he can still feel that way.

The bigger bad part is that he has bad qualities that are not about alcohol. They're simply part of how he reacts to the push and pull of everyday living. He knows how an adult is supposed to react to things and he tries, but his nature is for the more childlike responses. The instant knee-jerk response instead of a thought out one. Hes matured in this as well but it is who he is and always will be.

And an even bigger bad part is that all of this takes a heavy toll on those who love/have loved him. There has been so much hurt; there are not enough words in the world to tell it all. I'm not the person I wanted to be, nor am I the person I wish to be.....but he is. Hes gotten to be exactly who he wishes and who he chooses to be through out our life together.

Those are extremely high prices to pay and I would never do it again. Its not worth it. I used to look at our life and think "if he didn't drink", now I look at it and I don't think its about the alcohol at all. Its about his personality. How he thinks and how he responds to everyday living.

Pelican

I don't recommend stooping to the level of the alcoholic and manipulating your life partner.

I recommend the 3 C's:

I did not Cause it
I can not Control it
I will not Cure it

When I accepted those concepts, I was finally able to give my husband's alcoholism to the person in control - HIM.

I became someone I didn't recognize while living with active alcoholism. I adopted his behaviors. I could lie, deny, manipulate, blame-shift and over react as well as he. We were no longer in a healthy relationship.

I needed to find a path to recovery for myself. That included spending time here at SR, Alanon meetings and self-improvement books. I encourage you to try as many of those same options as you can.

Here is a link to a permanent post (called stickies) that contains steps that helped me detach from my husband's alcoholism. By taking my focus off of him and his actions, I was able to focus on my own needs. These steps helped:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html

I also wanted to learn more about alcoholism. I found the best resource, for me, was "Under The Influence". There is a post on SR that contains excerpts from that book. Here is the link:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...influence.html

Isollae

Stooping eh? Hmm. And here I thought I had simply tried my hardest to make a decent life with in the rules I thought mattered at the time. i'e. staying married, not giving up on a loved one etc.

At any rate, other wise I agree.

Please keep in mind that sharing my mistakes is hard. But heres this man that sounds so much like me when I was younger and asking for HELP to find a way to stay and make it work. If you think I'm advocating giving up so very much for the sake of another, then please re-read my post. If your not, then please allow me the dignity of sharing my mistakes without being belittled.

DesertEyes

Easy does it people. Kindly refrain from getting into discussion with each other and just reply to the original poster. We are here to share our experience with those in greater pain than ours. If you want to discuss other matters do it in "Private Messages"

Mike
Moderator, SoberRecovery

Bernadette

Hiya Brightside and welcome -
Loving an A has lead to obsessing about their addiction to the point of harming myself! I used to worry sick over my brothers and obsess about what I could do or say to change their behavior - to make them "see."

My thinking was so twisted. I didn't understand that truly loving someone meant respecting their poor decisions because they weren't MY decisions to make. And it meant giving up any illusions of control I had over situations or outcomes. I had to learn that when it comes to addiction - and this is what is unique about the disease of addiction - the normal easy impulses of helping someone out or being their shoulder to cry on are actually seriously dangerous enabling behaviors on my part.

For example: I used to argue with my brother (I have 3 A bros - and I am thinking of one in particular), he's a great debater, very intelligent and well spoken. I was always trying to use logic, shame, information WHATEVER to get him to "see" that his path was one of misery and destruction, that HIS problem is alcohol, and that he should change it RIGHT NOW before disaster struck. I took car keys away. I allowed middle of the night need-a-place to crash visits to my home. I bailed him out of jail, financial woes, and listened with great sadness and pity to his teary or angry tirades about his messed-up life.

What I was actually doing was getting in the way of his looking into the eyes of the only person who can save him: himself. By arguing and cajoling and engaging in his problems and his drama I was always giving him a place to spin things the way he needs to so that he can keep drinking and living in denial.

I learned in AlAnon that I was playing for TEAM ALCOHOL when I engaged in all his drama and nonsense and when I continued to step in and rescue him. I was not "helping" him live or learn! I was helping him die because I was aiding and abetting (enabling) the alcoholic behavior.

The change in my thinking was so transformative - so huge - and such the right thing to do for me and for my bros.

I love my bros deeply and I am able to show them that love, in the best ways possible, without harming them or myself. But I had to learn a whole new way of thinking - AlAnon and therapy helped me do that. And it has made all the difference in all my relationships.

Once I started working on myself- and I mean seriously working on changing my bad habits of mind and accepting that I needed to change, life got very joyful and peaceful.

And I found it hard to change! So who was I to ever expect another person to change? Hard enough to get myself to budge 1/2 an inch!

Glad you're here - lots of good info in the "stickies" at the top of the first page of this F&F of A forum. Have you tried AlAnon meetings? That was the big eye opener for me.

Peace-
B

bluebelle

There's a book that I really liked called Getting Them Sober. I have also found the Codepdent No More book to be very helpful.

Have you read the stickies at the top of this forum? There is some helpful advice on there. You can learn about what not to do--you don't want to enable her to continue her drinking. You could try to talk to her--when she's sober. It does no good to talk to somebody who isn't sober. Things that don't work include pouring out the alcohol, making things easier for them when they have a hangover, calling in sick for them, making excuses for them, etc.

worried72

Hi there,
This is a great place to read and learn... I have also read lots of important posts on the "alcoholism" and "new to recovery" boards.

I did not complete an intervention, though lots of people advised me to. My life is not a TV show, and I knew my AH well enough to know that it would be awful. Towards the crisis point, though, I did have his brothers talk to him. Things had been getting way out of control, and their input was important.... maybe the final straw. 8 days later he checked into treatment where he stayed for 57 days. He got home yesterday, actually.

We are on a new road, hopeful but cautious.

Before that, I tried lots of other things, none of which worked, and we were miserable. Ugh.

Peace to you,
L.

Cyranoak

...and with all due respect and with the understanding we are all human with our own opinions, I could not disagree more with Isollae's post. Passive-aggression and manipulation is not the way to approach your wife and her drinking. In fact, I would argue there really isn't a specific approach for you right now because you don't know enough about recovery yet. My motto is "when in doubt, don't."

There are some really good responses to your post in this thread, and I would explicitly add that IMHO the absolute best decision you can make right now is to go to at least six Alanon meetings, some different, before doing anything else or deciding if Alanon is for you.

I'm thirteen years in, I've made a lot of mistakes, and I should all over my wife for years to no avail. What finally saved me is Alanon. What finally saved my wife was AA, counseling, and treatment from a medical doctor. Each of these things failed singularly, but they seem to be very successful collectively.

Not that she's saved permanently because it's one day at a time, but she is 12 months sober (prior to that 12 hours sober was a miracle). I was unable to make her do the above. What got her there was a series of alcoholic events that ended her up in jail. What I did was not protect her from the consequences of those events.

Good luck my friend. Take what you want and leave the rest.

Cyranoak

Willybluedog

Welcome Brightside, so glad you are here, you can only fix you, sorry to sound cynical but there is nothing you can do to solve the problem that is her drinking.

Please insist she that she takes a cab if she is going out drinking, as you said, she could kill someone else.

Best of luck to you,

Bill