naj53

I am new to this site and looking for some advice of fellow travelers. My daughter has completed 60 days of treatment for alcoholism. I guess I am not sure if ours is a unique story or not. We enjoyed an extremely close relationship until a couple of years ago. I was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2009 and I think it was devastating for her. We don't live in the same city and she came to care for me during my surgery. During the course of my treatment, I made the decision to leave her dad. Another story...but I truly believed it was the only way I was going to stay alive. I left him for the love of my life who I had lost when I was 18. Again...another story. At any rate, we had been a big drinking family and there had been concern expressed by me and her father about her consumption. Her drinking escalated out of control last year and finally came to crisis. She checked into a treatment center in November.
Needless, to say, our relationship has undergone a great deal of trauma. I was the easy target with her dad and others as to why she began drinking so heavily, but her brother who has been sober for 2 1/2 years was the voice of reason. I was willing to shoulder ALL the blame, but it didn't change the fact that she was killing herself with alcohol. He continually reassured me that alcoholics don't need a reason to drink and that I was not the reason she was drinking. She was born that way.
I would love advice, support, etc. as to where to go from here. She is grateful for the treatment and seems dedicated to live a sober life, but I feel unsure as to how many questions to ask about her recovery, when did she know it was a problem, etc. She is no longer angry with me, but I am just not sure what she needs from me right now. We still live miles apart and seem to be okay when we are face to face, but that isn't always possible. I appreciate any feedback and welcome questions if I have failed to provide information. Thanks in advance for the words of wisdom

Impurrfect

(((naj53))) - Welcome to SR!!

I'm sure others will be along who are moms or dads of alcoholics - you are NOT alone.

I'm a recovering addict (RA) and a recovering codependent with loved ones who are alcoholics/addicts.

I was (and still am, thanks to the financial ruin I brought on with my addiction) living at home when I began recovery. I don't know what I needed, but I can tell you what I got, and I have almost 5 years in recovery, so I think it worked.

I did NOT get automatic trust - I had to earn it, and that took a while. I dealt with the anger my family felt at what I had put them through. I KNEW they loved me, but my consequences included dealing with a LOT of anger and mistrust.

I do remember my dad (who has NO real clue of what addiciton/recovery are all about) asking me "do you crave the drugs". Sarcastically, I'd answer "no, hadn't really thought of it until YOU brought it up!" Right or wrong, that's how I felt.

Other than that, I feel blessed. I never told my family I was in recovery, not that they have a clue what that means, but I showed it. In time, I have been able to open up, explain a little about addiction. More than anything, I've SHOWN them what recovery is all about.

They still don't get it - I live with some major codependents, a stepmom who teeters on addiction all the time, but what they see? It's someone going through whatever life hands me (and it's been a lot) and not go back to the "get numb" stuff.

I don't know if this helps, but it's my ES&H (experience, strength and hope).

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

laurie6781

As a long time recovering alcoholic whose 'mom, (yep she got the whole family behind her, lol) kicked me out at the age of 33 1/2 (it took me 2 1/2 more years to find recovery) I can tell you this. LISTEN TO YOUR SON, leave it be for now, let her bring up the subject for now, and then just tell her how 'good' you think she is doing.

At this stage of her recovery, asking:

"but I feel unsure as to how many questions to ask about her recovery, when did she know it was a problem, etc."

Right now .............................. Please ASK NO QUESTIONS. She will become 'open' with the further she gets into her recovery, and if she is working a 12 program like AA, it will not be until probably Step 9 (the amends step).

If she is working another program, it will be when she is comfortable with herself and ready to reveal 'parts of her story'. I was almost 3 years sober before I could talk to Mom about 'some' of my alcoholism. There are things I never revealed to her, as they were, as all they would have done was hurt her emotionally (because she loved me she would have been appalled at what I went through, although because of the alcohol, I was not at the time, only after recovery).

When I started talking to my family (mom and others but mostly mom) again, at about 9 months sober, she said to me:

"I am so proud of you!"

My reply was:

"Why, I am only doing now what I should have done years ago to change my life?"

She replied:

"Yes you are correct, but I am 'proud' of the efforts you are taking and making to rectify your error."

That I could accept and said "thank you very much Mom".

Your daughter is in a very 'fragile' state right now. Her mind is "Mush", she does not know if she is coming or going, she is feeling emotions that she has buried with the booze and now she is 'raw.'

Slowly, very slowly, her mind will clear, she will come to a point where she herself does not understand how she could do that to herself and will have to work through it with someone else (another A probably) that has been where she is at, maybe her brother, maybe her sponsor, or others that she will come to know that are now sober.

The rest of her life, will become 'a day at a time, then a week at a time, than maybe a month at a time, she will have 'periods' where she may be back to a day at a time.

Rehab is not a guarantee, weeks, months, and years are not a guarantee. Some A's have to relapse several times, before finally finding recovery for good, some A's never find recovery, and some A's continue to relapse until they die.

I say the above to help keep you in reality. Be kind with her, be gentle, but .............................. do NOT 'dote' on her recovery, you also, just like her, must STAY IN TODAY for now. Talk about what is going on in your life, and she will open a bit, maybe. Talk about what you have been doing, about your life, maybe some funny little incident.

I remember, I was very down one Sunday (yes we lived thousands of miles apart, and Sunday was the 'cheap long distance day to call, lol so I called every Sunday at 7am my time and it was 10am her time) and she told me about how the day before she went grocery shopping, got out to the car, and realized she had locked her keys in the car. Had, to go find a pay phone, call my dad to bring the extra set, knowing he would not let her live this one down for a while, and was laughing about it.

This made me laugh and really helped my mood. Why it made me laugh, is my whole life up to that point, my mother had been a perfectionist! She would have not only kept this incident secret (wouldn't want any one to see she too could and did make mistakes) she would have called a 'lock smith' and paid the extra money to KEEP IT A SECRET. Now here she was, making fun of herself and laughed. You cannot imagined how much that HELPED me. Here was part of my 'problem of communication' with my mom and her always being perfect, expecting constant perfection from myself my sister all those years, etc but .................................................. .. here she was, in her own way, showing me how much her 'attitude' was changing, she was looking at life, and probably me differently than she always had. THAT MEANT SO MUCH TO ME at that early time in my recovery. No criticisms, no telling me how to do something, just good communication about today, in reality, it seemed like for the first time she was 'seeing me as an ADULT' and not her 'little 16 year old girl' any more. I know mom's do that, I have done that, even after recovery, roflmao My daughter is 40, is married, with 4 beautiful children ranging from almost 6 to 14. We laugh when I say something and catch myself. I try to now 'direct' that towards my grand children in a 'gentle way.' lol

I apologize for being so verbose, and this reply is overly long, but I am just trying to explain to you from the 'alcoholic point of view', how it can be in early recovery. I have both sides of the coin, lol 30+ years of continuous sobriety, and 27+ years working on my codependency issues.

Please keep posting and let us now how you are doing, as we do care very much.

Love and hugs,

lillamy

Welcome!!!

I don't have any first-hand experience of being the parent of an addict, but I have a good friend whose son is going through rehab for drug abuse, and I talk a lot to her.

I think everyone does things that we can pull up and wonder if it was what caused our kids to do this or that. Your son is right, though, an alcoholic doesn't need a reason. And whatever they say was the reason they started, it's in the past and it doesn't matter: What matters is what happens from here on out.

I think the biggest fear my friend has with her son is doing something wrong so that he starts using again. Even though she's working on her own recovery, going to Al-Anon, I think that's really hard to let go of when it's your child you're talking about. You want to help and you want to not harm. And the thought that "it really doesn't matter what I do, what matters is what she decides to do" -- I think that's more difficult for a parent of an addict than for the spouse of one.

I would really, really encourage you to try Al-Anon. The group I go to has people who work the program and are fluent in 12-step language -- but also people who just come to the meetings to not feel so alone. A place where they can feel "normal"... People who don't work a program but just like coming there to be surrounded by other people who deal with what they deal with.

As for your daughter? I've no experience of being an addict. When I've had friends who have gone through rehab, I have basically let them know once they get out that I'm there, that I want to support their recovery, but that I'm not sure what they need and that I won't push myself on them but that they can feel free to contact me when and if they want to.

A lot of people in early recovery are extremely focused on their own recovery. Don't take that personally.

TakingCharge999

Hi naj,

I am glad you found SR, you have gone through so much. You are an inspiration.

The greatest gift my Mom can give me is to take care of her health and her happiness, ultimately parents lead by example. Continue to be the strong woman that you are.

There are 3 Cs

You didn't cause it
You can't cure it
You can't control her (or anyone else for that matter)



Here in SR there are many compassionate and wise people, I get how it feels (the impotence) but I am also learning feeling peace today is possible, accepting the past (and the present) is also possible.


All the best to you and your family.
((Hugs))

Seren

My stepson is still "out there" making unfortunate choices. If he ever does become an active part of the family again, I guess I would let him lead any conversation about his struggles with addiction.

I hope both your son and daughter continue making healthy decisions for their lives.

naj53

I am overwhelmed by the kindness of these posts. My humble appreciation to all of you. It is confirmation to me of the things she has said. Maybe this wouldn't be so awkward if we hadn't gone through her anger at me for leaving her dad. I was honestly shocked at her reaction. She had never been very close with her dad and had in fact, told me that if I wasn't in the picture, she would probably never come home again. When I left, she jumped into his camp with both feet. It was astounding; however, I now understand that her reaction was most likely caused by her own spiraling out of control with her drinking. She had been able to hide it until then. Appearances are VERY important to her and she was so embarrassed that I left. This was the star child of the family. Absolutely excelled at everything she did. First college graduate in the family, master's degree, accomplished every single thing she set her mind too. Fairy tale wedding...you name it, she did it. Her fall from grace was so dramatic. It is still hard for me to believe. Her brother had been difficult since he was a toddler. She was the golden child. I have do doubt this all fits for many people. I just didn't see it coming in the dramatic way that it did. Thank you all for your perspective. It helps me immensely to be able to share my concerns.
God bless each and everyone of you and I send huge hugs back!!!

Impurrfect

(((Naj))) - I was an only child, but also a "golden child". Though I didn't go as far as your daughter in college, I was halfway through my first associate's degree when I graduated college. Worked some awesome jobs, was an RN for years.

My fall was pretty dramatic, too. The good news is, recovery is pretty awesome. I wouldn't wish addiction/codependency on anyone, but to be honest, if I had not walked the path I did and found SR, I'm quite certain I wouldn't be nearly the person I am today

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

naj53

I try not to be too intrusive with my daughter, but I do have a hard time turning off the "worry button." It's very difficult living so far away and not having been to her new place of residence, I can't comfort myself with knowing her daily life. I talked to her a couple of days ago and she sounded fine...elusive, but clearly sober. I question whether or not I should allow her to call me or continue to check in with her. I do not talk about her recovery...just share happenings in my life or the within the family. I talk about current events, etc. When I don't hear from her, I become concerned. I suppose I am not unlike any parent in this situation. Words of wisdom, comfort or direction are greatly appreciated.

Blessings...

Impurrfect

((naj53)) - I don't know if a parent ever really stops worrying. Throw addiction into the mix, and it's harder.

I know there are certain behaviors that if I were to do (like not answering the phone for an extended amount of time), my parents would worry. The thing is, now it would be more of a "is she broken down somewhere? Been in a wreck?" than "OMG, she's gone back out".

I know when I worry about someone, I just envision them in God's hands, and that does help a bit.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

RUKIDDINGME

naj53, Thanks so much for this post. I too am a mother of an alcoholic. My son has not been to rehab and is just now trying to get his life on track. It's been a horrible roller coaster ride since he was 16. I think that you are in insperation!! I wish you the best and
just wanted you to know that reading this thread has given me more comfort than I've felt in a long time. THANK YOU!!

flutter

I'm not quite sure how I happened upon this post, but I'm glad that I did. naj53, it sounds like you want very much to be the best mother and support possible for your daughter. I'm an alcoholic, recently passed my 3 year mark. My parents are both alcoholics, both sober for almost 20 years. I can identify with a lot of the things you shared about your daughter in your post. I was also the "golden child" (actually CALLED THAT by my aunt and uncle), great life, great eduction, degrees coming out of my ears, fabulous career, husband, home.. and my fall from grace was devastating. Of course it only looked like a 'fall' from the outside, but I had been crumbling inside for years, looking back with clarity now.

I'm sure my mom felt just like you during my first tentative days/months sober. She felt it was appropriate to ask me a bunch of questions about my recovery. Did I have a sponsor? What was I learning in therapy? How was I feeling being sober? And every single one of them made me flinch, to be quite honest. My story is different because she is also an alcoholic in recovery, I'm sure some of her questions came from feeling like we had something in common.. I would have preferred her not to ask. My recovery was incredibly intimate and personal. I didn't want to share it with people other than the folks in my meetings, my doctor and my counselor. I think that I effectively closed her out enough to pass along a message of "please stop asking me..", in a healthier mind now, I probably should have just been forthright with her and let her know it was crossing a line with me.

In the end, what I appreciated (and still do!), was our 'normal' relationship. We started going to lunch a bit more often (once a month or so), family dinners were a little more special. Nothing out of the ordinary but simple unconditional acceptance and love for each other. I had a therapist, I didn't need to 'talk about it'. I was taking care of myself, and she eventually trusted that (which I'm sure was incredibly difficult). Just love her like you always have, let her experience the journey of her recovery as the personal experience it is, and try your hardest to trust that the right things will happen for her. Somewhere along the line, she may choose to address past issues with you.. please be open to that conversation if it ever comes up. As much counseling as I went through, and as much as I became "aware" of my resentments, I still feel a little angst about childhood issues, I'm a work in progress.

Willybluedog

"At any rate, we had been a big drinking family and there had been concern expressed by me and her father about her consumption."

I am going to come at this from a slighly different direction, and I want to say right now, there is absolutely no implication of blame. Were either of her parents alcoholics?

I am an ACOA, when my dad got cancer I immediately took this on as somehow "my fault" why, because as a child almost everything that happened was my fault, so when something bad happened even though I was 34, it affected me deeply.

My wife had just left me for another man.

There was an arguement about tretment of the cancer, my mom and sister wanted the most invasive treatment, my dad the least invasive but still experimental, I would not gang up on my dad with my mom and sister so my mother (the alcoholic) in high drama mode laid his impending death (due to the experimental treatment) at my feet.

I became suicidal, my job was in jeapordy because of my attitude, nothing was right in my life.

What all this boils down to, being an ACOA plus all the cancer and related drama sent me spiraling, it was no ones fault, it was the perfect storm of unrealted events, I was terribly embarrased to be flailing in the midst of my dads cancer. Your daughter is flailing, she needs to place blame, now she may be so ashamed of her behavior that she has had trouble rebuilding her relationship with you, just tell her you love her, that you will be there for her, and give her the space she needs to recover, she will make her way back to you eventually.

Best of luck,

Bill

naj53

Many thanks to all of you for the perspective. A special thanks to you, Flutter for "happening" upon my post. You really hit the nail on the head for me and provided me with reassurance and comfort. I told my girl in an email that she could count on three things from me:

1. I don't know anything
2. I want to learn and grow every single day
3. I will fail miserably without God as my reference.

For the first time in my life I am absolutely certain of who I am. I was abusing alcohol too. I do not have the same physiology as my kids and therefore, it hasn't been problematic for me. However, that being said, I feel that the greatest service I provide is to be unconditionally loving, constant and as happy and healthy as I can be. Your words of wisdom reinforced that to me and I am truly grateful. I will stop wondering when she is going to have the "big talk" with me and simply embrace that her words are clear and resonant.
I also see that we share the same location. Born and raised Denver girl...that's me!

I send hugs to all and so appreciative the loving and honest support. God bless!!

naj53

I haven't posted in a couple of months. My daughter spent 60 days in intensive rehab, returned to NY in January and began drinking within 2 weeks. He husband called me to say, "I am done and want her out." After a few days of talking and making arrangements, she returned to rehab for a relapse evaluation. They recommended an additional 30 days; however, her insurance for that was denied. She said she truly felt she knew why she had relapsed and had asked God to give her a sign if she was to stay or to go. She said she had truly surrendered to the addiction and also surrendered her life to God. She is a very stubborn and "in charge" personality...so this was a big step. She left after 14 days and spent about 10 days with a friend she had met in treatment who was living a successful sober lifestyle. While she did that...her husband went away for a week of golfing and partying with his parents. He has not gone to the treatment facility for any of the family meetings...because he is just TOO busy. She has been back in NY for 4 days. She says she is going to daily meetings...however, I swear she was drinking yesterday. Too vocal...talking to fast...all the things she does when she is compromised. I feel she is doomed to failure if she continues in a marriage that does not truly embrace a sober lifestyle and all that entails. Her husband is a very selfish personality. We have exhausted our financial resources. The past 74 days have cost $17,000 with insurance. We told her we did not want money to be the determining factor for whether she stayed or left, but she insisted she was ready to leave. Her husband has not returned our call about her.
I know that I am as powerless as I was before, but it's hard to believe she would fail this quickly. I feel certain she is doomed to fail in this circumstance, yet don't know what to do on any level...other than be there for her and give her to God every day. Advice appreciated...