To Divorce or Not to Divorce, that is the question...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 7
To Divorce or Not to Divorce, that is the question...
This is my first post. My head is spinning and I can't stop crying after reading so many other posts. I am confused. I read stories of your loved ones hitting rock bottom, blacking out, verbal and physical abuse, etc and I think wow thankfully my situation isn't that bad. Maybe my AH isn't really that bad. Maybe I am overreacting?
My AH is an adult child of an A and so was his father. His mother never stepped in or spoke up and he has major resentment and anger towards her. His father died at about 50 from alcoholism and in over 13 years I haven't heard him utter one kind word about him. He grew up with daily verbal abuse from his father and an uninvolved mother. He hates his childhood and anything that has to do with where he grew up. Siblings - all have their own dysfuntion: Overspending seriously in debt older sister, obese younger sister and younger brother on drugs. No one expresses their true feelings and being passive aggressive is the only way these survivors know how to communicate.
We have been married for 10 years and I have been the primary, if not sole provider, for all of it. I am resentful for all that pressure and that as the man in our family he doesn't have the desire, drive or at the very least guilt to go out and get ANY job. This time he is unemployed now for 1.5 years. Many attempts at starting his own business have failed, primarily because he jumps right in and has no follow through, organization and gets frustrated easily. Here we are again with my being the super responsible one trying to work full time at a 100% commissioned job (tons of pressure as my income can fluctuate so much month to month), manage our two kids' school activities, sports, pets, household etc.
I came from a "normal" background so I didn't see the red flags when I met him. He was attentive, sweet, always thinking of me so loving and in to me. I didn't realize it was out of insecurity. I now know why I always had to drive to his house to be together as he is a homebody and always drinks and stays put at home. Looking back I now see the signs but the excuses he gave made sense.
So 10 years of marriage and two kids we have had some happy times but most of the time I feel I have a third child. I read the characteristics of ACOA and he is DEFINITELY not driven or a perfectionist. He starts things and never finishes, unorganized, can't keep a calendar/planner of events/contacts etc and contstanly asked me for the information, hops from career to career with many months/years of no income earning, impatient, loves cursing, easily angered and the reaction is extreme compared to the event. Besides the fact that I pay for everything while I kids still went to daycare while he stays home and does whatever, I am most resentful of his lying which is pathological. Every so often I get feeling and discover something he told me was a lie. Motorcycle purchase when he was out of work and I was 9 months pregnant with our second (and about to be on leave with no pay), tv from rent a center that he told me was a friends that was moving, car purchase that I was told was a bonus/car provided by his last employer and just recently after his attempt to get healthy (for the first time in 13 years) he informed me he had been seeing his doctor to run a bunch of tests, blood work, etc to make sure all was ok and work on improving his health. I have been begging for him to go ever since last year he failed the life insurance exam miserably and I couldn't get more coverage on him. Things have been good lately so I started to let my guard down and believed him. Until 2 days ago when I had a bad feeling and looked up the claim record online to find he not once went to the doctor this entire year!
Back to my spinning head. Am I with an irresponsible man, an ACOA survivor who has so much resentment and issues from his childhood, an alcoholic or am I an overly demanding wife who he blames for being too controlling? He doesn't drink and drive (he doesn't like to go anywhere!), he doesn't black out, he doesn't smell of beer all the time, no one ever sees him "drunk". It is only in the past 3-4 years that I see the signs. Weight gain, no energy, sick more often than before, sweet in morning but angry and mean at night, no desire for sex and when he does try unfortunately he can't perform which makes us both feel bad.
I am babbling sorry, but this is SO much cheaper than the therapist we are currently seeing. He recently admitted to being a "functional alcoholic" and we just started going again. He won't go to AA, doesn't believe it works and thinks he can cure himself.
I don't know what to do. I am about to tell him that I want separate checking accounts and that he is now going to be paying his own car bill, alcohol and things he wants and that we should split the bills 50/50. But how else do I set consequences? It's easy for me to do with our kids when I don't like their behavior but he is my husband? How do I set boundaries, what boundaries do I set? How do I enforce them?
Unfortunately I will never trust him again after being lied to over and over. I don't respect him because he relies on me to constantly provide for the family. He is usually pissy and not fun to be around, never wants to go anywhere and is to shy and insecure to meet and talk to new people. I feel alone and I don't know what to do.
Similar to what I have read before, I know he is a good man inside and has a wonderful heart. So I am torn because I know he has a "disease" and is a survivor of a horrible childhood so when I vowed to be there until death do us part, is my situation bad enough to leave him? Isn't there another way to be supportive and loving? If he had cancer, I wouldn't leave him. This sounds horrible but I often wish he was a horrible drunk who left for days and had DUI's so I could feel justified in leaving. Am I am expecting perfection?
If anyone actually read all of this, please help me. I do love him but I don't respect him anymore. I love our ur family and would love to keep us together but I am not sure if I am saying that because I can't stand the thought of being a divorced family and what that will do to my kids. The thought of divorce makes me morn for the dreams that I had for our relationship, our family our life.
Yikes I need more tissue!
My AH is an adult child of an A and so was his father. His mother never stepped in or spoke up and he has major resentment and anger towards her. His father died at about 50 from alcoholism and in over 13 years I haven't heard him utter one kind word about him. He grew up with daily verbal abuse from his father and an uninvolved mother. He hates his childhood and anything that has to do with where he grew up. Siblings - all have their own dysfuntion: Overspending seriously in debt older sister, obese younger sister and younger brother on drugs. No one expresses their true feelings and being passive aggressive is the only way these survivors know how to communicate.
We have been married for 10 years and I have been the primary, if not sole provider, for all of it. I am resentful for all that pressure and that as the man in our family he doesn't have the desire, drive or at the very least guilt to go out and get ANY job. This time he is unemployed now for 1.5 years. Many attempts at starting his own business have failed, primarily because he jumps right in and has no follow through, organization and gets frustrated easily. Here we are again with my being the super responsible one trying to work full time at a 100% commissioned job (tons of pressure as my income can fluctuate so much month to month), manage our two kids' school activities, sports, pets, household etc.
I came from a "normal" background so I didn't see the red flags when I met him. He was attentive, sweet, always thinking of me so loving and in to me. I didn't realize it was out of insecurity. I now know why I always had to drive to his house to be together as he is a homebody and always drinks and stays put at home. Looking back I now see the signs but the excuses he gave made sense.
So 10 years of marriage and two kids we have had some happy times but most of the time I feel I have a third child. I read the characteristics of ACOA and he is DEFINITELY not driven or a perfectionist. He starts things and never finishes, unorganized, can't keep a calendar/planner of events/contacts etc and contstanly asked me for the information, hops from career to career with many months/years of no income earning, impatient, loves cursing, easily angered and the reaction is extreme compared to the event. Besides the fact that I pay for everything while I kids still went to daycare while he stays home and does whatever, I am most resentful of his lying which is pathological. Every so often I get feeling and discover something he told me was a lie. Motorcycle purchase when he was out of work and I was 9 months pregnant with our second (and about to be on leave with no pay), tv from rent a center that he told me was a friends that was moving, car purchase that I was told was a bonus/car provided by his last employer and just recently after his attempt to get healthy (for the first time in 13 years) he informed me he had been seeing his doctor to run a bunch of tests, blood work, etc to make sure all was ok and work on improving his health. I have been begging for him to go ever since last year he failed the life insurance exam miserably and I couldn't get more coverage on him. Things have been good lately so I started to let my guard down and believed him. Until 2 days ago when I had a bad feeling and looked up the claim record online to find he not once went to the doctor this entire year!
Back to my spinning head. Am I with an irresponsible man, an ACOA survivor who has so much resentment and issues from his childhood, an alcoholic or am I an overly demanding wife who he blames for being too controlling? He doesn't drink and drive (he doesn't like to go anywhere!), he doesn't black out, he doesn't smell of beer all the time, no one ever sees him "drunk". It is only in the past 3-4 years that I see the signs. Weight gain, no energy, sick more often than before, sweet in morning but angry and mean at night, no desire for sex and when he does try unfortunately he can't perform which makes us both feel bad.
I am babbling sorry, but this is SO much cheaper than the therapist we are currently seeing. He recently admitted to being a "functional alcoholic" and we just started going again. He won't go to AA, doesn't believe it works and thinks he can cure himself.
I don't know what to do. I am about to tell him that I want separate checking accounts and that he is now going to be paying his own car bill, alcohol and things he wants and that we should split the bills 50/50. But how else do I set consequences? It's easy for me to do with our kids when I don't like their behavior but he is my husband? How do I set boundaries, what boundaries do I set? How do I enforce them?
Unfortunately I will never trust him again after being lied to over and over. I don't respect him because he relies on me to constantly provide for the family. He is usually pissy and not fun to be around, never wants to go anywhere and is to shy and insecure to meet and talk to new people. I feel alone and I don't know what to do.
Similar to what I have read before, I know he is a good man inside and has a wonderful heart. So I am torn because I know he has a "disease" and is a survivor of a horrible childhood so when I vowed to be there until death do us part, is my situation bad enough to leave him? Isn't there another way to be supportive and loving? If he had cancer, I wouldn't leave him. This sounds horrible but I often wish he was a horrible drunk who left for days and had DUI's so I could feel justified in leaving. Am I am expecting perfection?
If anyone actually read all of this, please help me. I do love him but I don't respect him anymore. I love our ur family and would love to keep us together but I am not sure if I am saying that because I can't stand the thought of being a divorced family and what that will do to my kids. The thought of divorce makes me morn for the dreams that I had for our relationship, our family our life.
Yikes I need more tissue!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,796
Hello and welcome.
Well, you have choices. You can be a single mom of two kids, or a single mom of two kids and a grown man. Among other choices.
I don't have kids, but many here do...they will be able to talk to you, better than I can haha.
Well, you have choices. You can be a single mom of two kids, or a single mom of two kids and a grown man. Among other choices.
I don't have kids, but many here do...they will be able to talk to you, better than I can haha.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 7
Nicely put. Just read a thread on detachment, next is the boundaries one I found. Best site I have ever found but a lot to take in. Finally feeling that I am in a place to calmly express my boundaries to my AH and am ready to follow through if they are not met again. I used to fight, scream, cry and plead for changes and after years of empty promises, deep down I know that nothing is ever going to change. So sad.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 36
Hey Time4Me,
I can relate to your situation...but my AH is not lazy or unorganized or not driven. It's the opposite. But he expects me to be equally driven, and push myself, and be perfect....which I tried to do for years, only to realize that it is all some sort of weird twisted game. In 5 years of marriage he has never once said to me of his own volition that he was proud of me, or thought I did something great. He only ever tells me how i'm not quite good enough yet (not in those words, but in many various other ways).
I do find that I carry the family financially most of the time. Actually, our current work situations exist because of me.
Some days I'm 100% positive that walking away is the best thing to do, but then other days, like today, he treats me well, makes a great dinner and talks to me like we are equals. Those days fill me with doubt about leaving...but it is cyclical. I know it won't be long before the short good time fades away and a long period of negativity follows.
You are doing the right thing by reading and learning. I feel like I have really been empowered by doing the same, and I feel brave now, not afraid. I feel like a light has turned on in a dark room and revealed everything that was there all along, but I couldn't see. It is not a pretty sight...very messy...but I am glad I know what is surrounding me instead of living like a blind woman covered in filth. Unfortunately, I'm not the one that can clean it up, but I can certainly keep myself looking beautiful and healthy, or even leave the room if I want to. I don't know if leaving is the right decision yet for me or for you...but I hope you find your courage as the lights come on.
Good luck.
CJ
I can relate to your situation...but my AH is not lazy or unorganized or not driven. It's the opposite. But he expects me to be equally driven, and push myself, and be perfect....which I tried to do for years, only to realize that it is all some sort of weird twisted game. In 5 years of marriage he has never once said to me of his own volition that he was proud of me, or thought I did something great. He only ever tells me how i'm not quite good enough yet (not in those words, but in many various other ways).
I do find that I carry the family financially most of the time. Actually, our current work situations exist because of me.
Some days I'm 100% positive that walking away is the best thing to do, but then other days, like today, he treats me well, makes a great dinner and talks to me like we are equals. Those days fill me with doubt about leaving...but it is cyclical. I know it won't be long before the short good time fades away and a long period of negativity follows.
You are doing the right thing by reading and learning. I feel like I have really been empowered by doing the same, and I feel brave now, not afraid. I feel like a light has turned on in a dark room and revealed everything that was there all along, but I couldn't see. It is not a pretty sight...very messy...but I am glad I know what is surrounding me instead of living like a blind woman covered in filth. Unfortunately, I'm not the one that can clean it up, but I can certainly keep myself looking beautiful and healthy, or even leave the room if I want to. I don't know if leaving is the right decision yet for me or for you...but I hope you find your courage as the lights come on.
Good luck.
CJ
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to the SR family!
I am glad you found us, and sorry for the reasons that brought you here.
Please continue to make yourself at home by reading the posts, and posting/venting as needed. We understand.
You are not alone.
Right now your head may be swimming with awareness, and how do I even begin to make changes, right? Let me ask you a question a fellow alanoid asked me when I was confused over so many options and things to do to protect myself: "You don't have to have all the answers by 3 p.m. today, right?"
You did not arrive in this situation overnight. It will take more than one day to help yourself get into a healthier situation too.
Divorce or not to divorce?
For me, it ended in divorce.
One of my motivations for following through with legal action was the role model I was portraying for my children. I realized that by staying and accepting unacceptable behavior from my life partner - I was giving this for an example to my children of what adult relationships look like.
I did not want my daughter accepting the type of behavior I was accepting from her life partner.
I did not want my son treating his life partner the way I was being treated.
To me, staying showed them that no matter how miserable the rest of the family is due to alcoholism - we stick it out because of a contract. Not for me! I signed a contract that said we were both to be treated with respect, forsaking all others (alcohol replaced any emotions he had for us), and loved. Alcohol was the love that he lied for, manipulated for, and financially ruined for. (okay, that is my personal rant on marriage contracts - I will stop)
While living with active alcoholism, there are steps to help you and your children reclaim some sanity. This link helped me find my way:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
Keep coming back.
We care about YOU
I am glad you found us, and sorry for the reasons that brought you here.
Please continue to make yourself at home by reading the posts, and posting/venting as needed. We understand.
You are not alone.
Right now your head may be swimming with awareness, and how do I even begin to make changes, right? Let me ask you a question a fellow alanoid asked me when I was confused over so many options and things to do to protect myself: "You don't have to have all the answers by 3 p.m. today, right?"
You did not arrive in this situation overnight. It will take more than one day to help yourself get into a healthier situation too.
Divorce or not to divorce?
For me, it ended in divorce.
One of my motivations for following through with legal action was the role model I was portraying for my children. I realized that by staying and accepting unacceptable behavior from my life partner - I was giving this for an example to my children of what adult relationships look like.
I did not want my daughter accepting the type of behavior I was accepting from her life partner.
I did not want my son treating his life partner the way I was being treated.
To me, staying showed them that no matter how miserable the rest of the family is due to alcoholism - we stick it out because of a contract. Not for me! I signed a contract that said we were both to be treated with respect, forsaking all others (alcohol replaced any emotions he had for us), and loved. Alcohol was the love that he lied for, manipulated for, and financially ruined for. (okay, that is my personal rant on marriage contracts - I will stop)
While living with active alcoholism, there are steps to help you and your children reclaim some sanity. This link helped me find my way:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
Keep coming back.
We care about YOU
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
Originally Posted by Pelican 
"You don't have to have all the answers by 3 p.m. today, right?"
I have found individual counseling (I did some marriage counseling too with my loved one, but we both had individual counseling in place) was really helpful. I have also personally gotten a lot of support in Al-anon. Al-anon has helped me not just with the loved one in my life who struggled with alcohol, but with many of my relationships in my life.
I am sorry for the reason you are here, but glad that you found such a great place. Welcome.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
Originally Posted by Time4me
...deep down I know that nothing is ever going to change. So sad.
- He is not going to change anything
- You are not going to change anything
You have no control over number 1.
You have complete control over number 2, if you choose.
Recovery teaches us that we have choices. To declare we are stuck is a choice to keep the status quo. But the choice is still there.
Sending support!
CLMI
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 342
After two years of being separated from RAH I am at a point where I have enough clarity to realize I have choices. Alanon helps me with tools to be able to make and live with my choices.
I didn't want to divorce two years ago and I still don't want to divorce but I do know that I will not live with an active alcoholic or an alcoholic that is not managing his disease.
Are RAH and I clear and together on this? - sometimes - one day at a time.
My life has changed so much from two years ago and although unlike your situation we are fortunate that my AH who is also a workaholic provides financially, I will never again let myself be financially dependent on him.
My RAH can seem like a 4th child with some of the issues he has. I also know I will not be the parent to my RAH and I have issues that sometimes lead me to treat him like a child.
I am working on my own issues and that is enough for me right now.
This is my experience and what other posters have said on this thread are words I heard during my journey that have helped. Particularly what Pelican said about asking myself if I need to make a decision right now.
Also, the comments about control. The Serenity Prayer, which my interpretation and understanding has evolved over these years, has been a tremendous help.
Hugs and support for you. You are not alone. May you use your strengths and find courage to make YOUR life a peaceful, happy one.
I didn't want to divorce two years ago and I still don't want to divorce but I do know that I will not live with an active alcoholic or an alcoholic that is not managing his disease.
Are RAH and I clear and together on this? - sometimes - one day at a time.
My life has changed so much from two years ago and although unlike your situation we are fortunate that my AH who is also a workaholic provides financially, I will never again let myself be financially dependent on him.
My RAH can seem like a 4th child with some of the issues he has. I also know I will not be the parent to my RAH and I have issues that sometimes lead me to treat him like a child.
I am working on my own issues and that is enough for me right now.
This is my experience and what other posters have said on this thread are words I heard during my journey that have helped. Particularly what Pelican said about asking myself if I need to make a decision right now.
Also, the comments about control. The Serenity Prayer, which my interpretation and understanding has evolved over these years, has been a tremendous help.
Hugs and support for you. You are not alone. May you use your strengths and find courage to make YOUR life a peaceful, happy one.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I think wow thankfully my situation isn't that bad. Maybe my AH isn't really that bad. Maybe I am overreacting?
I'm saying that because I was exactly where you are. I said exactly those words so many times. It's not that bad. He's keeping a high-profile job. He's bringing in money. He's had so much trouble in his life. And how can I leave someone who clearly can't take care of himself??? My AXH was emotionally and verbally abusive, and I used to think "if only he would hit me, then I would KNOW there was a problem, and I would know that I was entitled to leaving."
I had a couple of really straight-talking, harsh Al-Anon friends during the four years between I first walked into my first meeting and the day I left my AH. Half the time, I thought to myself that they were idiots and clearly didn't understand how unique my situation was and how unique MY alcoholic was. The other half, what they said sunk in. And hurt. But grew.
A couple of things they said that grew:
1) You don't need permission to leave. If your AH's drinking is out of control, you are free to leave at any time. What other people think is none of your business. You know what the situation is like inside your marriage, and only you can determine whether you want to continue living like that. You have a choice. It might not be a comfortable choice, but you have one.
2) Did you give birth to the guy? Because you sure sound like you're talking about a kid when you're talking about him. Given that he's 50, you think maybe he's an adult, same as you, with the right and responsibility to make choices and decisions of his own?
3) You didn't cause his drinking. You can't control it. And you can't cure it. Keep coming back.
Al-Anon saved my sanity and my life. Working the program allowed me to live with an actively drinking alcoholic without drowning, and working the program made it possible for me to make decisions that weren't based on guilt. I can't recommend it enough. And don't just go to ONE meeting and decide it's not for you. Go to ten meetings. Twenty. And I guarantee you'll find a place where people understand, and a way to live even under the circumstances you find yourself in right now. And that'll give you time and firm footing for making decisions.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 7
Such amazing posts. You are right, I don't have to make any decisions today but I sure do wish I could find clarity sooner than later. It's been something I have been wrestling with now for a couple years. But like many of you have said, just when I have had enough and I think I am ready to ask him to leave, he does something to change my mind. Clean the house, make dinner, say the right thing. But one thing that I need to keep remembering is that I need to stop trying to figure him out, fix him, help him find relief from his demons. It's confusing as I thought I was being a supportive wife by trying to help him come to terms with his childhood. I want to be there for him and I do feel bad that he had such a horrible upbringing so part of me wants to cut him some slack and be understanding and patient. I am torn because he says he loves me, he finally in the last year admits he is an alcoholic, we recently started marital counseling again with an addiction counselor and for the first time in 13 years he is working out daily and "making changes". But when I found out about his most recent set of lies to me a few days ago, it hit me that he's not going to change. No matter how much he says he loves me and no matter how much I want to love him, I just can't trust and count on him. I can't wait and hope for changes that may never come. After years of lying I can't trust him, after years of instability with countless jobs and failed businesses I can't count on him to provide, after years of drinking his health is failiing and he is only in his early 40's. We now have no couple friends and no social life. We filed bankruptcy over 2 years ago and still live month to month with no savings and our kids have never been on a real vacation. He is constantly sick, tired and I have no compassion left. I get my hopes up and then they get crushed. I hope for security, consistency, a true partner that I can count on, believe in, trust, admire and respect. I wish that was him but I know it never will be.
So what I am finally trying to focus on is not why he is the way he is and if it's due to his childhood upbringing, drinking or just because that is who he is. Either way, it doesn't really matter does it? What matters is that I am not happy and I don't have a true partner. I need to focus on what I expect from a partner and not give him excuses as to why he isn't.
But even though writing it all out seems so clear, it is such a hard decision when kids are involved. Am I being selfish and wishing for perfection? What if my expectations for a husband are too high? Isn't marriage full of ups and downs? When is enough enough? I hear stories of many of you putting up with so much worse and staying in marriages by practicing detachment but how? I know we all have choices but I don't like either one. I can't stand the thought of growing old and retiring some day with this person who I can't respect and trust but the thought of telling our kids that we can't live together anymore kills me. I can't imagine not seeing them every day and I fear that some day they will resent me for asking their father to move out.
There I go rambling again. I want to thank all of you who have opened up before me so that at the very least I, and others in pain, don't feel like we are alone. It's not something I have shared with really anyone else in my life and no one will ever suspect that we are unhappy. I really feel like this year will bring clarity for me. I just need to let go of my hopes for what our marriage could have been, stop trying to heal him and focus on what I want in a marriage and my life by setting boundaries.
I have been to 2 different AL-ANON meetings and I know I need to try another. The first meeting seemed to be all parents of alcoholic children and I didn't seem to relate to anyone. The second meeting I couldn't stop crying but again most people there appeared to be in a different stage of life with grown children and they all made decisions to stay in the marriage. And then the other thing that is so hard for me is that I want answers, I want someone to tell me what to do. I know that is not what the meetings are for and not what anyone here should be doing but going to those meetings and hearing everyone tell stories about their difficult lives just makes me feel more depressed. I know I need to try again but again what am I supposed to gain from going to a meeting if no one can tell me what to do? For now the one benefit I do see is that it gives me an opportunity to vent and share something that really no one else knows I am going through.
Thank you again for this site and to all of you for sharing and helping. I hope that sometime this year I can look back and see how much I have grown, find clarity to my situation and offer advice to someone else going through the same thing that I am going through now.
So what I am finally trying to focus on is not why he is the way he is and if it's due to his childhood upbringing, drinking or just because that is who he is. Either way, it doesn't really matter does it? What matters is that I am not happy and I don't have a true partner. I need to focus on what I expect from a partner and not give him excuses as to why he isn't.
But even though writing it all out seems so clear, it is such a hard decision when kids are involved. Am I being selfish and wishing for perfection? What if my expectations for a husband are too high? Isn't marriage full of ups and downs? When is enough enough? I hear stories of many of you putting up with so much worse and staying in marriages by practicing detachment but how? I know we all have choices but I don't like either one. I can't stand the thought of growing old and retiring some day with this person who I can't respect and trust but the thought of telling our kids that we can't live together anymore kills me. I can't imagine not seeing them every day and I fear that some day they will resent me for asking their father to move out.
There I go rambling again. I want to thank all of you who have opened up before me so that at the very least I, and others in pain, don't feel like we are alone. It's not something I have shared with really anyone else in my life and no one will ever suspect that we are unhappy. I really feel like this year will bring clarity for me. I just need to let go of my hopes for what our marriage could have been, stop trying to heal him and focus on what I want in a marriage and my life by setting boundaries.
I have been to 2 different AL-ANON meetings and I know I need to try another. The first meeting seemed to be all parents of alcoholic children and I didn't seem to relate to anyone. The second meeting I couldn't stop crying but again most people there appeared to be in a different stage of life with grown children and they all made decisions to stay in the marriage. And then the other thing that is so hard for me is that I want answers, I want someone to tell me what to do. I know that is not what the meetings are for and not what anyone here should be doing but going to those meetings and hearing everyone tell stories about their difficult lives just makes me feel more depressed. I know I need to try again but again what am I supposed to gain from going to a meeting if no one can tell me what to do? For now the one benefit I do see is that it gives me an opportunity to vent and share something that really no one else knows I am going through.
Thank you again for this site and to all of you for sharing and helping. I hope that sometime this year I can look back and see how much I have grown, find clarity to my situation and offer advice to someone else going through the same thing that I am going through now.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
So what I am finally trying to focus on is not why he is the way he is and if it's due to his childhood upbringing, drinking or just because that is who he is. Either way, it doesn't really matter does it?
Nope.
What matters is that I am not happy and I don't have a true partner. I need to focus on what I expect from a partner and not give him excuses as to why he isn't.
Yup!
I'm divorced w. 2 kids. Not an easy change, not a fun decision or transition. My exH was not an A - but I was a full blown codie (grew up with A father and super-codie mom) and my marriage was warped. But bottom line was my exH was irresponsible, unavailable, unreliable, and I was so hopeful about him changing or me changing him - I finally let that go - reality was we were both unhappy.
Our boys have thrived. Once the marriage was over and I did the work i needed to do on MYSELF to be able to just accept him 100% the way he is, we've been able to be good friends - and the lack of bitterness and lack of tension or fighting between us made all the difference in our kids being OK.
Take the alcohol out of the equation - my exH had a tough upbringing as well - but guess what - it's not my job (nor am I trained) to "fix" that. It is his choice and his destiny. Just like I had my own problems and my own dysfunctional upbringing to sort out - being focused on him as the problem in my marriage and in my happiness kept me stuck and not focusing on the one person I could make enormous changes in: ME!
Therapy and AlAnon helped me stay on track and change my bad habits of mind.
The past is gone. You are free in THIS moment.
Glad you're here-
Peace-
B
Nope.
What matters is that I am not happy and I don't have a true partner. I need to focus on what I expect from a partner and not give him excuses as to why he isn't.
Yup!
I'm divorced w. 2 kids. Not an easy change, not a fun decision or transition. My exH was not an A - but I was a full blown codie (grew up with A father and super-codie mom) and my marriage was warped. But bottom line was my exH was irresponsible, unavailable, unreliable, and I was so hopeful about him changing or me changing him - I finally let that go - reality was we were both unhappy.
Our boys have thrived. Once the marriage was over and I did the work i needed to do on MYSELF to be able to just accept him 100% the way he is, we've been able to be good friends - and the lack of bitterness and lack of tension or fighting between us made all the difference in our kids being OK.
Take the alcohol out of the equation - my exH had a tough upbringing as well - but guess what - it's not my job (nor am I trained) to "fix" that. It is his choice and his destiny. Just like I had my own problems and my own dysfunctional upbringing to sort out - being focused on him as the problem in my marriage and in my happiness kept me stuck and not focusing on the one person I could make enormous changes in: ME!
Therapy and AlAnon helped me stay on track and change my bad habits of mind.
The past is gone. You are free in THIS moment.
Glad you're here-
Peace-
B
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 7
Thank you Bernadette -
Nice to hear that things can get better when we focus on ourselves. I didn't realize or even know why I am such a CODIE. Normal family and don't know why I feel the need to control. At Christmas time I did step back and take a look at my extended family and noticed that all of my Aunts on my mother's side are all very strong, opinionated women who need to be in control. I did grow up with structure but I am appreciative for it now.
I just can't seem to get past the hope things will get better. That's insane I know but those days when all is good and easy, it's nice. But soon after the resentment comes back, I feel stressed out for not having enough time in the day to handle everything and I see him as a third child.
Tomorrow I am going to find a meeting and pick up that book CoDependent No More (think that is the title). It sure will be a relief to only work on myself and stop trying to help him grow up.
Thank you!
Nice to hear that things can get better when we focus on ourselves. I didn't realize or even know why I am such a CODIE. Normal family and don't know why I feel the need to control. At Christmas time I did step back and take a look at my extended family and noticed that all of my Aunts on my mother's side are all very strong, opinionated women who need to be in control. I did grow up with structure but I am appreciative for it now.
I just can't seem to get past the hope things will get better. That's insane I know but those days when all is good and easy, it's nice. But soon after the resentment comes back, I feel stressed out for not having enough time in the day to handle everything and I see him as a third child.
Tomorrow I am going to find a meeting and pick up that book CoDependent No More (think that is the title). It sure will be a relief to only work on myself and stop trying to help him grow up.
Thank you!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 2,936
It sure will be a relief to only work on myself and stop trying to help him grow up.
Yes! It was an enormous relief for me. And gave me renewed respect for others and their problems, when I finally focused on changing myself and found out - wait a minute! I am stubborn too? And I am not so easy to change or so capable to just change MY bad habits and worst traits on a dime???!!
Enjoy the journey!
Peace,
B
Yes! It was an enormous relief for me. And gave me renewed respect for others and their problems, when I finally focused on changing myself and found out - wait a minute! I am stubborn too? And I am not so easy to change or so capable to just change MY bad habits and worst traits on a dime???!!
Enjoy the journey!
Peace,
B
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
My xhusband, although not an alcoholic while we were married, sure had the rapid mood swings and sure blamed it all on me.
After he divorced me, I realized my life was so much more peaceful because I was not stressing myself out trying to keep him happy (I thought it was my job, my responsibility).
After the divorce, I went for individual counseling. I began to learn that I am not responsible for the happiness of anyone else, and that someone else's bad mood is not something I have to take on.
I still slip into old ways of thinking sometimes, but I try to remember what I learned. It helps!
HG
After he divorced me, I realized my life was so much more peaceful because I was not stressing myself out trying to keep him happy (I thought it was my job, my responsibility).
After the divorce, I went for individual counseling. I began to learn that I am not responsible for the happiness of anyone else, and that someone else's bad mood is not something I have to take on.
I still slip into old ways of thinking sometimes, but I try to remember what I learned. It helps!
HG
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Hi Time4me,
I can really relate to your story in so many ways ... let me share a few of my thoughts as an ACOA with the same type of history as your husband as well as the wife of RAH who has been in therapy and recovery all of my life it seems!
I can see from your post that you are bright, intuitive, empathetic and a problem solver. I hope you are seeing a therapist who is unraveling your own childhood and what makes you tick and why you found such a needy and broken man so attractive in the first place (fireworks aside).
When we understand ourselves completetly it helps us to analyze and improve our deicision making especially when it comes to relating and dealing with a broken loved one such as your husband.
Keep seeking out alanon meetings until you find so live bodies so you can get a peer group to help you through this next phase of your life. Read, read, read! YOu can gain so much wisdom and perspective from so many great books on the subject of alcoholism and codependency.
I completely believe that there is a way out for every alcoholic on the planet ...BUT...
only if they personally want out and if they are willing to go to any lengths to achieve that!
The vast majority are not... they might SAY they want to stop but in reality they are just doing what it takes to get others off their back so they can keep drinking and maintaining the status quo.
10 years of drinking, not working, lying etc is a long, long time and his habits are deeply ingrained... his thinking patterns and self deception is going to be hard wired. It sounds like you are pretty easy to get off the warpath because your expections are so low for him... he is perceptive enough to know when to turn on the charm and wash the dishes and scrub the floor and get you to back off!
LOL... if our A's could channel all the resourcefulness and cleverness at successful drinking with NO MONEY except ours and still maintain a good lifestyle they could have been rich!
So... we train our A's unknowingly and our boundaries are very lax and we are easily manipulated because the alternative is HARD and extremely unpleasant when they throw their alcoholic tantrums and everyone around them suffer.
But eventually years latter...sometimes decades letter we simply have just had enough! The veneer comes off, the lies don't work anymore and we stay angry inside and our quality of life becomes so bad we start getting sicker and sicker ourselves. And our children are suffering too... the true innocents.
Enough of all that stuff... you already had that all figured out on your own intuitively. Now you are trying to figure out what to do...
For me the best way to achieve peace was to establish an alcohol free home .... PEROD and I would not buy alcohol or allow alcohol to be bought with my money. While this sets off a firestorm with the A who thinks that his wife should labor for hours and hours every week so they can drown themselves in booze it is non-negotiable.
They can deal with their alcoholism in several ways at that point... they can go get a job and pay for their own alcohol or they can go mooch some from their drinking buds or they can go steal it! If they get a job and keep it then good for them and their friends will tire of supporting their drinking soon enough and if they steal it eventually they will get caught and get some consequences to their behavior.
If he becomes self supporting and can buy his own alcohol it still cannot come into the home that is supposed to be a place of peace and alcohol will destroy that.
Usually they will leave and go stay somewhere else and you will get a safe haven of peace as a result.
IF he claims that he does want to become sober the next step would be to find a GOOD addictions expert to help outline a recovery plan for him as well detail out a life plan...obviously he is not suited for business ownership and he needs to get a job flipping burgers or something! Day labor or something to occupy his time and start him contributing to his families support.
If he can't stop cold turkey and he is not working then there are no barriers to him checking into a residential program ... there are many around if you look. I know every single one in Florida and help get people into them even if they have no money.
He may need to go into detox or even long term recovery but he needs to take ACTION because talk is cheap... and he will bs until you are both in rocking chairs if you let him!
I have recently read a book and I loved it.... it is Christian and that is an issue for some but the principles apply to all faiths or even no faith....
REDEMPTIVE DIVORCE...iti is the ultimate intevention and the strongest line in the sands boundary you can draw up. It is a legal seperation where you actually write out what it would take to open the door up to the POSSIBILITY of a reconciliation... for you it might be a year sobriety and a year of gainful employment etc....
There is a website and a book on that subject .... just google redemptive divorce.
Good luck and take your time.... those of us on thsi website (I am the worst) at giving you the whole enchilada while you may just need someone to say "we undertand and we care" right now.
That is why we say "take what you need and leave the rest"... you may not need all of my stuff for months or years or maybe never!
Remember : TAKE CARE OF YOU!
I can really relate to your story in so many ways ... let me share a few of my thoughts as an ACOA with the same type of history as your husband as well as the wife of RAH who has been in therapy and recovery all of my life it seems!
I can see from your post that you are bright, intuitive, empathetic and a problem solver. I hope you are seeing a therapist who is unraveling your own childhood and what makes you tick and why you found such a needy and broken man so attractive in the first place (fireworks aside).
When we understand ourselves completetly it helps us to analyze and improve our deicision making especially when it comes to relating and dealing with a broken loved one such as your husband.
Keep seeking out alanon meetings until you find so live bodies so you can get a peer group to help you through this next phase of your life. Read, read, read! YOu can gain so much wisdom and perspective from so many great books on the subject of alcoholism and codependency.
I completely believe that there is a way out for every alcoholic on the planet ...BUT...
only if they personally want out and if they are willing to go to any lengths to achieve that!
The vast majority are not... they might SAY they want to stop but in reality they are just doing what it takes to get others off their back so they can keep drinking and maintaining the status quo.
10 years of drinking, not working, lying etc is a long, long time and his habits are deeply ingrained... his thinking patterns and self deception is going to be hard wired. It sounds like you are pretty easy to get off the warpath because your expections are so low for him... he is perceptive enough to know when to turn on the charm and wash the dishes and scrub the floor and get you to back off!
LOL... if our A's could channel all the resourcefulness and cleverness at successful drinking with NO MONEY except ours and still maintain a good lifestyle they could have been rich!
So... we train our A's unknowingly and our boundaries are very lax and we are easily manipulated because the alternative is HARD and extremely unpleasant when they throw their alcoholic tantrums and everyone around them suffer.
But eventually years latter...sometimes decades letter we simply have just had enough! The veneer comes off, the lies don't work anymore and we stay angry inside and our quality of life becomes so bad we start getting sicker and sicker ourselves. And our children are suffering too... the true innocents.
Enough of all that stuff... you already had that all figured out on your own intuitively. Now you are trying to figure out what to do...
For me the best way to achieve peace was to establish an alcohol free home .... PEROD and I would not buy alcohol or allow alcohol to be bought with my money. While this sets off a firestorm with the A who thinks that his wife should labor for hours and hours every week so they can drown themselves in booze it is non-negotiable.
They can deal with their alcoholism in several ways at that point... they can go get a job and pay for their own alcohol or they can go mooch some from their drinking buds or they can go steal it! If they get a job and keep it then good for them and their friends will tire of supporting their drinking soon enough and if they steal it eventually they will get caught and get some consequences to their behavior.
If he becomes self supporting and can buy his own alcohol it still cannot come into the home that is supposed to be a place of peace and alcohol will destroy that.
Usually they will leave and go stay somewhere else and you will get a safe haven of peace as a result.
IF he claims that he does want to become sober the next step would be to find a GOOD addictions expert to help outline a recovery plan for him as well detail out a life plan...obviously he is not suited for business ownership and he needs to get a job flipping burgers or something! Day labor or something to occupy his time and start him contributing to his families support.
If he can't stop cold turkey and he is not working then there are no barriers to him checking into a residential program ... there are many around if you look. I know every single one in Florida and help get people into them even if they have no money.
He may need to go into detox or even long term recovery but he needs to take ACTION because talk is cheap... and he will bs until you are both in rocking chairs if you let him!
I have recently read a book and I loved it.... it is Christian and that is an issue for some but the principles apply to all faiths or even no faith....
REDEMPTIVE DIVORCE...iti is the ultimate intevention and the strongest line in the sands boundary you can draw up. It is a legal seperation where you actually write out what it would take to open the door up to the POSSIBILITY of a reconciliation... for you it might be a year sobriety and a year of gainful employment etc....
There is a website and a book on that subject .... just google redemptive divorce.
Good luck and take your time.... those of us on thsi website (I am the worst) at giving you the whole enchilada while you may just need someone to say "we undertand and we care" right now.
That is why we say "take what you need and leave the rest"... you may not need all of my stuff for months or years or maybe never!
Remember : TAKE CARE OF YOU!
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 235
Hi, Time! I could write your post and I am a little further than you so I thought I would give you some insight but you have already had some amazing people respond that have really helped me.
I am divorcing my AH and he hasn't even drank in a year. He is not recovering or changing at all! I was by myself and he vanished for about 4 weeks. I was doing everything with 2 kids. I have also supported him our whole marriage of 11 years. He has had 5 jobs. He works March to November and I left him in October. That is why I did not see him for 4 weeks. He can not handle a job and being a husband or dad.
Anyway, I complained the whole 4 weeks. Now, he is laid off and always around. I miss those 4 weeks. I truly am dealing with a child. But, I have to give this child some power and he cares for my kids. My AH took my DS 9 about an hour away to a NBA game and I didn't hear from them, I have this pit in my stomach until I hear my little guy on the phone. But, that said when I go home and AH is not there (he watches kids at my house, again he is laid off and I feel better when they are home) I get that feeling of wanting to be home back. I do not have to dread where he is, what he is doing, or why he is doing it because it doesn't matter. He is responsible for himself. I don't have to balance the debit card, pay his bills, or worry if he has gas money.
Read my posts! this has been a very hard week. But, I am getting there.
I can not remember who said it, but it was on one of my posts. I am not sad and upset that I am divorcing him. I am sad and upset about why. It really is not something I can control. Just like you every time I leave he gets help and the doubts come back. But, I have done this so many times that when someone suggest we go to couseling or we go to meetings I get that feeling of just being tired. The we doing something always turns into me!!!!
YOU CANNOT SAVE SOMEONE FROM DROWNING WHEN YOU ARE BARELY TREADING WATER YOURSELF.
I hope you find peace and would love to talk anytime through posts or private message. Best wishes.
I am divorcing my AH and he hasn't even drank in a year. He is not recovering or changing at all! I was by myself and he vanished for about 4 weeks. I was doing everything with 2 kids. I have also supported him our whole marriage of 11 years. He has had 5 jobs. He works March to November and I left him in October. That is why I did not see him for 4 weeks. He can not handle a job and being a husband or dad.
Anyway, I complained the whole 4 weeks. Now, he is laid off and always around. I miss those 4 weeks. I truly am dealing with a child. But, I have to give this child some power and he cares for my kids. My AH took my DS 9 about an hour away to a NBA game and I didn't hear from them, I have this pit in my stomach until I hear my little guy on the phone. But, that said when I go home and AH is not there (he watches kids at my house, again he is laid off and I feel better when they are home) I get that feeling of wanting to be home back. I do not have to dread where he is, what he is doing, or why he is doing it because it doesn't matter. He is responsible for himself. I don't have to balance the debit card, pay his bills, or worry if he has gas money.
Read my posts! this has been a very hard week. But, I am getting there.
I can not remember who said it, but it was on one of my posts. I am not sad and upset that I am divorcing him. I am sad and upset about why. It really is not something I can control. Just like you every time I leave he gets help and the doubts come back. But, I have done this so many times that when someone suggest we go to couseling or we go to meetings I get that feeling of just being tired. The we doing something always turns into me!!!!
YOU CANNOT SAVE SOMEONE FROM DROWNING WHEN YOU ARE BARELY TREADING WATER YOURSELF.
I hope you find peace and would love to talk anytime through posts or private message. Best wishes.
Last edited by brownhorse; 01-09-2012 at 07:27 AM. Reason: spelling
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 32
"It's not that bad" ...yet. Alcoholism is a progressive disease. If left unaddressed it does get worse. While some alcoholics end up on the street,most don't. "Bottom" is simply when someone has had enough. That is true for the alcoholic and true for those around them. Some people have to have all sorts of terrible things happen before they have had enough,some people don't. Tragically, Many (most) alcoholics die before they ever get there. I have seen people get themselves up out of sleeping in doorways, get sober and turn themselves around. I have seen people with every possible advantage and things to live for **** it all away by continuing to make the CHOICE to not get help. (Just because something is a disease does not mean that someone should get some free pass to stay sick....treating it or not is a choice).
I was a 'high functioning' alcoholic with a 'high bottom'. IMHO such descriptions are just head games that encourage denial. Really, 'high functioning' compared to what?? Certainly not to normal people!! Oh yeah, I went to work! In fact I had a glamorous career. On the outside I had everything. Inside I didn't have a clue.
And as for bottoms there are lower one's available to me if I would like to start drinking again. No thanks! My 'high bottom' included years of causing worry,pain and grief to everyone who loved me. I lied to myself. I lied to them.Their worryand pain did not get me sober but understanding how I hurt other people once I got sober keeps me that way! Yeah I would like to think I was really special but the reality is that I was just a common variety everyday drunk with all of the insanity that alcoholism entails. I used to go to AA meetings, focus on the worst stories,say to myself "I'm not like THEM"...."it's not THAT bad"and then leave and go and drink.
I did a similar thing in relationships with alcoholics. On that one I did not have a high bottom!!!! The losses I accrued by staying in relationships with alcoholics were in fact far worse than those I accrued while drinking myself.
Father Martin,who founded Ashley- one of the best treatment centers in the country- used to say that money,brains,beauty and youth all stand in the way of people getting sober. All set up situations in which denial flourishes/protect people from consequences that might jolt them into recovery. IMHO 'high functioning' alcoholics usually have some combination of these things in play,along with circumstances and people around them in denial who support their ability to continue to function at the level that they are. Some of us are just really really good at setting ourselves up in situations and surround ourselves with people who in various ways continue to make our addiction not just possible but comfortable for us. Smart alcoholics are the worst....the smarter you are the more able you are to come up with rationalizations for what you are doing.
I don't want people who support the worst in me around me anymore and I do not want to be one of those people in someone else's life. I don't know what anyone else should do but my choice today is to not have active addiction in any form in my life. If someone would like to get the help that they need I will do anything I can to help and support them. If not it is Bye bye. I have divorced 2 alcoholics. It wasn't easy but I have no regrets and have never looked back. In both cases I woke up one day and knew I had had ENOUGH! just as I did the day I decided to get help for my drinking. Now I have enough of addiction on a permanent basis. Today I find that I cannot tolerate things I lived with for years for even a single day. I wonder how I ever lived that way!?!
Only you can know what is enough and when you have had enough. What your own personal bottom is. If we keep at it, the tools of recovery help us to detach enough to be able to hear our own forms of innate and intuitive wisdom about what is enough for us and what is not. It takes time and practice to get to a place where we can begin to hear our own answers to the questions that so perplex us. IMHO no journey in life is more worth making that that one!!
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step". Reaching out to others is the first step. Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was a 'high functioning' alcoholic with a 'high bottom'. IMHO such descriptions are just head games that encourage denial. Really, 'high functioning' compared to what?? Certainly not to normal people!! Oh yeah, I went to work! In fact I had a glamorous career. On the outside I had everything. Inside I didn't have a clue.
And as for bottoms there are lower one's available to me if I would like to start drinking again. No thanks! My 'high bottom' included years of causing worry,pain and grief to everyone who loved me. I lied to myself. I lied to them.Their worryand pain did not get me sober but understanding how I hurt other people once I got sober keeps me that way! Yeah I would like to think I was really special but the reality is that I was just a common variety everyday drunk with all of the insanity that alcoholism entails. I used to go to AA meetings, focus on the worst stories,say to myself "I'm not like THEM"...."it's not THAT bad"and then leave and go and drink.
I did a similar thing in relationships with alcoholics. On that one I did not have a high bottom!!!! The losses I accrued by staying in relationships with alcoholics were in fact far worse than those I accrued while drinking myself.
Father Martin,who founded Ashley- one of the best treatment centers in the country- used to say that money,brains,beauty and youth all stand in the way of people getting sober. All set up situations in which denial flourishes/protect people from consequences that might jolt them into recovery. IMHO 'high functioning' alcoholics usually have some combination of these things in play,along with circumstances and people around them in denial who support their ability to continue to function at the level that they are. Some of us are just really really good at setting ourselves up in situations and surround ourselves with people who in various ways continue to make our addiction not just possible but comfortable for us. Smart alcoholics are the worst....the smarter you are the more able you are to come up with rationalizations for what you are doing.
I don't want people who support the worst in me around me anymore and I do not want to be one of those people in someone else's life. I don't know what anyone else should do but my choice today is to not have active addiction in any form in my life. If someone would like to get the help that they need I will do anything I can to help and support them. If not it is Bye bye. I have divorced 2 alcoholics. It wasn't easy but I have no regrets and have never looked back. In both cases I woke up one day and knew I had had ENOUGH! just as I did the day I decided to get help for my drinking. Now I have enough of addiction on a permanent basis. Today I find that I cannot tolerate things I lived with for years for even a single day. I wonder how I ever lived that way!?!
Only you can know what is enough and when you have had enough. What your own personal bottom is. If we keep at it, the tools of recovery help us to detach enough to be able to hear our own forms of innate and intuitive wisdom about what is enough for us and what is not. It takes time and practice to get to a place where we can begin to hear our own answers to the questions that so perplex us. IMHO no journey in life is more worth making that that one!!
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step". Reaching out to others is the first step. Good for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I connect to your post as I felt like that for a long time. I can't answer your question because everyone's situation is individual and what is right for one is not right for another. Keep posting and reading and a good counselor will be a gift to yourself.
First I would like to say you are not overreacting. These are your feelings, your needs, and they are very real and very important. You have choices and please give yourself permission to evaluate all the choices you have available to you based on the fact that you deserve that. You do.
Oh I know how that goes. It sure is exhausting and the mental drain of a relationship to an alcoholic can make it so much more exhausting and lonely.
I totally get this. My husband was a lot like that too and it got worse every year. It became a constant game of chase trying to stay on top of things like that. The only thing that surpassed my exhaustion was my resentment. It was boiling over and I became a completely 'flat' person just trying to contain it. It was consuming me and between that, the exhaustion of doing everything and trying to keep one step ahead or clean up a problem - I was not a good a present mother.
My xah is an ACOA too. Do you read the ACOA board at all? They disown the other parent as often as they do the alcoholic - even when the alcoholic was a rotten abuse SOB. My xah wasn't. He was not present. He was passe out. But I was causing a lot of turmoil in their lives. I've only wanted one thing since i was a small child and that was to be a mother. I couldn't allow that cycle to play out. I had no idea how to stay within the relationship and not be swallowed up with all those codie behaviors. I know others can but I could not.
SR taught me that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. People with issues very rarely just wake up one day and say "I'm going to be different." and poof they are different. It takes work. Work you will notice and see - not just a bunch of words.
I would say all three. My husband was all three. The survivor part pulled at my heartstrings. I am always for the underdog. I hit my own bottom though and something just had to change. I was needing as much help as him and I was going to find it.
I am going to recommend a counselor for you. One that specializes in addictions. Also post post post here at SR. Those two things helped me a lot. The counselor was recommended by people here at SR and I drug my feet but it really helped. I needed someone to talk to and that person had been my husband but alcoholics blame, twist the truth, don't even have a grip on reality themselves. They will manipulate and say anything to keep the status quo. PLEASE do not take his feedback to heart. It is not feedback you can trust or act on.
I had a therapist that specialized in addictions. My xah and I did see her together and she refused to even do marriage counseling with an active alcholic not working a program. Any program - just had to be working one. I think most quality counselors that know about addictions would say the same thing.
Marriage counseling works if both people share a reality and both people have the marriage as their #1 priority. Active Alcoholics have a physiologically changed reality and their #1 priority will always be alcohol, which pulls them in a seperate direction from their marriage. That dynamic WILL NOT change as long as the alcoholism is active.
there is a good sticky at the top that I think has already been posted. I struggled with boundaries because I didn't have any. You figure out what your boundaries are and then you determine an action *you* can take to uphold/protect that boundary.
You no longer have that good man inside. Today you have the pissy easly angered cursing man that lies, does not provide for the needs of his family, uses you at the least financially, doesn't finish things, doesn't go places with you or want to make friends. When you start making decisions based on who you have today, rather then who you had yesterday or hope to have tomorrow, things might be more clear.
I don't know. This was a sticking point for me too. At some point I decided to save myself. He wasn't going to save me. I couldn't save him. I knew I could save myself - I just had to decide to do it.
Well I dont know how but when I went to al-anon there were people there that figured it out.
I used to pray for just terrible things. I wanted him to set me free. I wanted an easy out. I suspect had those awful things came to pass I would have still felt stuck. What I finally realized is that all I had to do was open the door. I could free myself and it was OK. That is what I am supposed to do - take care of myself. That is what we are all responsible for - only ourselves.
It is a very very sad thing. I still grieve for that dream. It was not my reality though. It was crazy making to live in and manage my reality while my head was making decisions based on a dream.
Maybe my AH isn't really that bad. Maybe I am overreacting?
Here we are again with my being the super responsible one trying to work full time at a 100% commissioned job (tons of pressure as my income can fluctuate so much month to month), manage our two kids' school activities, sports, pets, household etc.
So 10 years of marriage and two kids we have had some happy times but most of the time I feel I have a third child. I read the characteristics of ACOA and he is DEFINITELY not driven or a perfectionist. He starts things and never finishes, unorganized, can't keep a calendar/planner of events/contacts etc and contstanly asked me for the information, hops from career to career with many months/years of no income earning, impatient, loves cursing, easily angered and the reaction is extreme compared to the event. Besides the fact that I pay for everything while I kids still went to daycare while he stays home and does whatever, I am most resentful of his lying which is pathological.
My xah is an ACOA too. Do you read the ACOA board at all? They disown the other parent as often as they do the alcoholic - even when the alcoholic was a rotten abuse SOB. My xah wasn't. He was not present. He was passe out. But I was causing a lot of turmoil in their lives. I've only wanted one thing since i was a small child and that was to be a mother. I couldn't allow that cycle to play out. I had no idea how to stay within the relationship and not be swallowed up with all those codie behaviors. I know others can but I could not.
Things have been good lately so I started to let my guard down and believed him. Until 2 days ago when I had a bad feeling and looked up the claim record online to find he not once went to the doctor this entire year!
Am I with an irresponsible man, an ACOA survivor who has so much resentment and issues from his childhood, an alcoholic
or am I an overly demanding wife who he blames for being too controlling?
I am babbling sorry, but this is SO much cheaper than the therapist we are currently seeing.
Marriage counseling works if both people share a reality and both people have the marriage as their #1 priority. Active Alcoholics have a physiologically changed reality and their #1 priority will always be alcohol, which pulls them in a seperate direction from their marriage. That dynamic WILL NOT change as long as the alcoholism is active.
there is a good sticky at the top that I think has already been posted. I struggled with boundaries because I didn't have any. You figure out what your boundaries are and then you determine an action *you* can take to uphold/protect that boundary.
Unfortunately I will never trust him again after being lied to over and over. I don't respect him because he relies on me to constantly provide for the family. He is usually pissy and not fun to be around, never wants to go anywhere and is to shy and insecure to meet and talk to new people. I feel alone and I don't know what to do.
Similar to what I have read before, I know he is a good man inside and has a wonderful heart.
Similar to what I have read before, I know he is a good man inside and has a wonderful heart.
So I am torn because I know he has a "disease" and is a survivor of a horrible childhood so when I vowed to be there until death do us part, is my situation bad enough to leave him?
Isn't there another way to be supportive and loving?
This sounds horrible but I often wish he was a horrible drunk who left for days and had DUI's so I could feel justified in leaving. Am I am expecting perfection?
I used to pray for just terrible things. I wanted him to set me free. I wanted an easy out. I suspect had those awful things came to pass I would have still felt stuck. What I finally realized is that all I had to do was open the door. I could free myself and it was OK. That is what I am supposed to do - take care of myself. That is what we are all responsible for - only ourselves.
The thought of divorce makes me morn for the dreams that I had for our relationship, our family our life.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: seeking sanity
Posts: 645
"I do love him but I don't respect him anymore. "
I didn't respect myself anymore. I didn't know me. Filing for divorce was very hard but it was the only way for me to have sanity again. It's been two years and now I finally feel normal again.
I didn't respect myself anymore. I didn't know me. Filing for divorce was very hard but it was the only way for me to have sanity again. It's been two years and now I finally feel normal again.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 7
Wow that was so great, thank you Hopeworks! I had to take yesterday off from this site as I felt I was starting to obsess about being married to an ACOA. However it is such a relief to know I am not alone, that others too struggle with what to do and to get advice. I do appreciate and want advice and it's so helpful to hear stories from other spouses who have been in the same situation.
I did have a talk with my AH yesterday and told him that I am no longer living with him without boundaries. I am not ready to completely throw in the towel but I did take a big step and told him that we no longer will have joint checking accounts. We will go to the bank, remove him from my account and he can open up his own. He then will be responsible for paying for his car, his expenses, his alcohol and I will also go through our budget and show him how much are monthly bills are and I will expect him to pay half. I realize he can't come up with this money over night but by 2/1 I will no longer be paying everything. Secondly I told him he must be in a program by 2/1. I personally think he would be benefit greatly by attending an Al- ANON meeting as he has so much anger and resentment towards his deceased father and mother. The one problem I have is if you are practicing detachment and need to let go of control and trying to help, how do I know he really is going to weekly meetings or a program if I am not suppose to be questioning him? How do you hold someone accountable to being in a recovery program if you aren't going with him and you really shouldn't be nagging them to find out if they went? This is very confusing to me!!!
It is also hard for me to see him in such pain when he deals with family issues. His mother, who has her own set of issues from her childhood and being married to an alcoholic, is just horrible to him. She texts him constantly about what a horrible son he is because he doesn't come see her, won't send her money, would rather spend time with my family, etc. The things she says just shock me that a mother would say such things to a son. He gets so hurt and then he becomes so angry and then the day is ruined and we live with a very impatient, angry person for a day or two. He really needs to learn to detach and to set boundaries with her but it's so hard for him to do anything but text back justification to her accusations. I suggested yesterday that he needs to tell her that if she has issues with him, she needs to pick up the phone and actually discuss her feelings with him directly. In addition I suggested that he tell her that if she continues to act immaturely and disrespectfully towards him, that he will cease speaking to her. Unfortunately he couldn't quite pull it off without throwing sarcastic daggers back at her.
This is a prime example as to my confusion. What do I do? How do support my husband because I love, care and hate to see him hurt by his mother yet not get overly involved and become co-dependent? I made suggestions, he listened and tried to enforce them but I also got really mad at him later when he couldn't stop fuming about her. His language becomes disgusting, he starts snapping at everyone around and then the rest of the day is ruined. He goes from sweet to a complete Ahole in seconds and he can't seem to calm himself down or detach from his mother's harsh words. I understand that this is his problem but it affects the entire family. How do I set boundaries regarding this situation? How do I still be a supportive, caring wife without telling him what to do? This isn't easy for me as I am a problem solver, I do want to help and I do feel much more confident in myself than he does. Part of me wants to call her up and tell her how disgusted I feel towards her for all the stuff she puts him through and then I realize that this isn't my issue, I didn't cause his pain, I wasn't part of his childhood and this is something he must learn to deal with.
I haven't read all the other posts yet but I do appreciate all that you have said. I have started with two boundaries and I think that is a good start. I truly don't believe in separate money for a married couple however in this case I will feel like I don't have to question every dollar he spends, I will know that if he wants a vehicle he will have to find a job and income to pay for it and I will no longer be paying for the alcohol. Regarding my requirement that he must be in a program and stop drinking by Feb1st, I don't truly believe he will and again I have no idea how to "track" or confirm he is in a program. We just recently started seeing a therapist who specializes in addiction but my AH already has found a reason not to like him but we really can't afford to go as often as we need to. Lastly, forgot this boundary already, I did tell my AH that if I ever find out about another lie I am done. I realize that lying to him is his first thought even if he isn't really in trouble and I just don't get it. I understand this is very common for ACOA but it's so bizarre to me to lie first and then consider telling the truth. But then after some recent reading and from my AH sharing more of his childhood, I do see why lying was a survival mechanism from his childhood and he doesn't know how to stop. This sucks, I understand more now what he is going through but that still doesn't mean I should have to deal with it. So ultimately again my mind can't seem to wrap around the balance between being a supportive and caring wife and practicing detachment and letting go.
Last night I picked up Co-Dependent no more and can't wait to get started. I also picked up Adult Children of Alcoholics so I can understand him even better. I told him about the books and hope he will glance at them. What I really want to do is force him to read them but that is the part of me that I want to change and figure out why I have such a strong desire to control him. I don't know why I have such a desire to control but from as long as I can remember I have always been very persistant and went after what I wanted. As a child my mother had such a hard time parenting me because I never took no for an answer and I pushed her until I got what I wanted. She said that I would argue, ask for explanations, why was my favorite word and would keep debating my view until I broke her down. I remember these exchanges but I felt I was going after what I felt was right, what I wanted and was trying to argue my point. I cetainly didn't feel like I was trying to be controlling of my mother but rather I had a motto that if I wanted something and I worked hard to get it, I could achieve it. I guess I never learned how to be diplomatic about it when it came to personal relationships. I can be overbearing for sure. My mother said I should have become a lawyer as I never took no for an answer. So yes I need to figure out why I have always felt better around men who weren't as strong as me. I tend to be attracted to men who look up to me, who recognize and appreciate my strength, who need me. Boy this therapy bill is never going to end!
Thank you again for everyone that shares their story and gives advice. It is so refreshing to be able to talk about all that I have been keeping inside with people who get it and have been there!
I did have a talk with my AH yesterday and told him that I am no longer living with him without boundaries. I am not ready to completely throw in the towel but I did take a big step and told him that we no longer will have joint checking accounts. We will go to the bank, remove him from my account and he can open up his own. He then will be responsible for paying for his car, his expenses, his alcohol and I will also go through our budget and show him how much are monthly bills are and I will expect him to pay half. I realize he can't come up with this money over night but by 2/1 I will no longer be paying everything. Secondly I told him he must be in a program by 2/1. I personally think he would be benefit greatly by attending an Al- ANON meeting as he has so much anger and resentment towards his deceased father and mother. The one problem I have is if you are practicing detachment and need to let go of control and trying to help, how do I know he really is going to weekly meetings or a program if I am not suppose to be questioning him? How do you hold someone accountable to being in a recovery program if you aren't going with him and you really shouldn't be nagging them to find out if they went? This is very confusing to me!!!
It is also hard for me to see him in such pain when he deals with family issues. His mother, who has her own set of issues from her childhood and being married to an alcoholic, is just horrible to him. She texts him constantly about what a horrible son he is because he doesn't come see her, won't send her money, would rather spend time with my family, etc. The things she says just shock me that a mother would say such things to a son. He gets so hurt and then he becomes so angry and then the day is ruined and we live with a very impatient, angry person for a day or two. He really needs to learn to detach and to set boundaries with her but it's so hard for him to do anything but text back justification to her accusations. I suggested yesterday that he needs to tell her that if she has issues with him, she needs to pick up the phone and actually discuss her feelings with him directly. In addition I suggested that he tell her that if she continues to act immaturely and disrespectfully towards him, that he will cease speaking to her. Unfortunately he couldn't quite pull it off without throwing sarcastic daggers back at her.
This is a prime example as to my confusion. What do I do? How do support my husband because I love, care and hate to see him hurt by his mother yet not get overly involved and become co-dependent? I made suggestions, he listened and tried to enforce them but I also got really mad at him later when he couldn't stop fuming about her. His language becomes disgusting, he starts snapping at everyone around and then the rest of the day is ruined. He goes from sweet to a complete Ahole in seconds and he can't seem to calm himself down or detach from his mother's harsh words. I understand that this is his problem but it affects the entire family. How do I set boundaries regarding this situation? How do I still be a supportive, caring wife without telling him what to do? This isn't easy for me as I am a problem solver, I do want to help and I do feel much more confident in myself than he does. Part of me wants to call her up and tell her how disgusted I feel towards her for all the stuff she puts him through and then I realize that this isn't my issue, I didn't cause his pain, I wasn't part of his childhood and this is something he must learn to deal with.
I haven't read all the other posts yet but I do appreciate all that you have said. I have started with two boundaries and I think that is a good start. I truly don't believe in separate money for a married couple however in this case I will feel like I don't have to question every dollar he spends, I will know that if he wants a vehicle he will have to find a job and income to pay for it and I will no longer be paying for the alcohol. Regarding my requirement that he must be in a program and stop drinking by Feb1st, I don't truly believe he will and again I have no idea how to "track" or confirm he is in a program. We just recently started seeing a therapist who specializes in addiction but my AH already has found a reason not to like him but we really can't afford to go as often as we need to. Lastly, forgot this boundary already, I did tell my AH that if I ever find out about another lie I am done. I realize that lying to him is his first thought even if he isn't really in trouble and I just don't get it. I understand this is very common for ACOA but it's so bizarre to me to lie first and then consider telling the truth. But then after some recent reading and from my AH sharing more of his childhood, I do see why lying was a survival mechanism from his childhood and he doesn't know how to stop. This sucks, I understand more now what he is going through but that still doesn't mean I should have to deal with it. So ultimately again my mind can't seem to wrap around the balance between being a supportive and caring wife and practicing detachment and letting go.
Last night I picked up Co-Dependent no more and can't wait to get started. I also picked up Adult Children of Alcoholics so I can understand him even better. I told him about the books and hope he will glance at them. What I really want to do is force him to read them but that is the part of me that I want to change and figure out why I have such a strong desire to control him. I don't know why I have such a desire to control but from as long as I can remember I have always been very persistant and went after what I wanted. As a child my mother had such a hard time parenting me because I never took no for an answer and I pushed her until I got what I wanted. She said that I would argue, ask for explanations, why was my favorite word and would keep debating my view until I broke her down. I remember these exchanges but I felt I was going after what I felt was right, what I wanted and was trying to argue my point. I cetainly didn't feel like I was trying to be controlling of my mother but rather I had a motto that if I wanted something and I worked hard to get it, I could achieve it. I guess I never learned how to be diplomatic about it when it came to personal relationships. I can be overbearing for sure. My mother said I should have become a lawyer as I never took no for an answer. So yes I need to figure out why I have always felt better around men who weren't as strong as me. I tend to be attracted to men who look up to me, who recognize and appreciate my strength, who need me. Boy this therapy bill is never going to end!
Thank you again for everyone that shares their story and gives advice. It is so refreshing to be able to talk about all that I have been keeping inside with people who get it and have been there!
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