KelleyF

Today…. is Christmas Eve

….at least a repeat of it for me and my RABF. (for those that dont know, he OD the night before Christmas Eve day and was in the ICU unconcious for the official holiday)

I can already imagine that statement is getting some OMG Kelley NO reactions….and read the book thoughts. And I ordered the book and I am going to read it and maybe then my outlook will change…….

My RABF has a plan; only time will tell if he sticks with it; only time will tell if he relapses again; but Im happy because he has a plan; and Im hopeful because at my core that is just who I am.

I hope HE will take care of himself; I hope God will take care of him; I hope that I will put myself first and take care of myself…. and somehow all this will mix together and together we will be happy.

I went with my RABF to his first Dr appointment. His dad went too; yes it was an entourage. He was nervous; he doesn’t like to talk about himself and he has a lot of bad stuff that he needs to deal with. While he started this, his dad and I went to the café across the street and ate pie.

We talked too. It was a good talk. I need to think about some of the things he said to me; maybe put some of them here so I never forget them; like many of you parents; he has had years of dealing with his sons addiction and his own related issues.

We were waiting for him when he was done. Told him we had been across the street. He remarked about us going to relax and eat pie while he had to see the Dr. But the tension breaker came when his dad told him that if he was ever to come home and find one of us lying on the floor dying because of an overdose; then it would be us getting our heads examined while he ate the pie. And another OMG moment – we brought him a piece of pie anyway.

Me and the RABF had a long talk when we were alone back at his new place. I told him all about my anxiety and asked him tons of questions; and in the end he asked me to do what you guys have been saying all along; let HIM handle this; don’t obsess, don’t try to figure out the puzzle of why, don’t feel responsible, don’t feel guilty, don’t worry all the time; Treat him as normal like I had been doing when I thought he was “fine”; expect of him normal things; don’t let him off the hook; don’t change who I am to try to accommodate what I think he needs. And if he fails me then let him go.

Somehow hearing him say that freed me…..I know ….hearing HIM ….say that freed…. ME. Not good that I felt that way…….

(And today maybe you can see why Ive had so many questions about being in a relationship with someone and treating them as “normal” (harboring guilt forum post). All I can say is Im working on it…and thank you for all your help and ...sharing your personal stories with me. I truly appreciate it.

Yesterday, He did what his dad asked him to do.
He turned his medical power of attorney over to his dad & his best friend for the next 3 months. Went to his family doctor and set up weekly drug test with any failed test being reported to them. And went for another session with the psychologist and accepted the 3x week proposal; with an agreement that they will be informed if he misses any appointments.

This was really difficult for him. And Im proud of him.

Today is our Christmas Eve and tomorrow is our Christmas……

….and I finally get to see whats in those boxes under my greenish/brown tree ….especially the one with the silver bow …it makes a sound when you shake it.

laurie6781

Sounds like progress for you Kelley.

Only thing I will add is I hope those drug tests are blood tests and not urine. There is way too many things and options for an addict to have a 'clean' urine when in fact he is loaded on drugs.

Other than that, now that he himself has told you maybe you can get on with the business of working on you.

Remember we are walking with you in spirit.

Love and hugs,

KelleyF

Thank you.

Yes, its a blood test.

lesliej

So he is doing what his father asked him to do.
So he is not really doing it himself, he is following his dad's instructions. It's his dads plan. He has big resentments with his dad right?
hmmmm.
so pie was an OMG? hmmm.
and HIS request is that you treat him like before. it's not like your boundaries or trust was violated or anything right? his using, the "skank", his OD episode...
you can treat him like before right? like nothing ever happened right?
no fear. no worry. no trust issue. wow. amazing.

all in exchange for that silver bow...hope it's exciting!

EnglishGarden

Hi Kelly,
I don't know the history, but.....is your boyfriend an adolescent? Then I do understand the involvement of his father, doctor regulations, etc.

But....is he over 20?

If so, this seems a very tricky set-up for a lot of bitter resentments on his part, which matters for you only because he will dump his seething resentments on you, either overtly or passive aggressively, sooner or later. It is very very painful when the addict turns on us like a snake in the grass.

I am concerned about how very close you are keeping to a drug addict who at present is without any substantial recovery.

Please stay with recovering codependents, here or in meetings or both, so you can get help staying clear. Your welfare--physical and mental and emotional--needs to be your number one priority.

Right now he is breaking up with drugs.

He is not happy about it, no matter what he is saying, I would suspect.

So just be careful and stick with people who are savvy about codependents and addicts.

Stay strong. God bless. I hope for a very positive outcome for you no matter what!

bluebelle

He is an adult, and makes his own choices. So, it is up to him whether or not he is going to do the work to be in recovery. It seems convenient that he has his boss, his father, and you all helping him. As the above poster said, he could be setting you guys up for some resentments. If things do not go right for him, then he can blame you. He doesn't have to take responsibility for his own actions.

I'm not trying to be negative, I have just seen the same action from my RASD and AM. They both have a lot of lack of personal responsibility and resentments. I'm letting you know because I hope that you are going to continue to take care of yourself. While you are and everybody else are taking care of BF, who is taking care of you? When I pretty much reached my bottom of being a codependent, it was because I realized nobody was taking care of me. I was attempting to take care of everybody else except myself. I know from experience that puttnig all your energy, care and love toward your BF's problem is not going to cure his addiction.

steelmagnolia

Kelly...you sound like a sweet, beautiful, loving child ...(young lady). I wish you a merry Christmas darlin'...and a ever so wonderful life. Which ever road you have to take...take it with pie! Good love and good luck...mags

outtolunch

He can only save or fail himself.

Just curious. How old is this guy?

KelleyF

Leslie, thank you for your post...I really need some of you guys to be tough on me and make me think things through....so please keep telling me your thoughts as it helps......

In regards to his dad and this plan, I posted this on an earlier thread:

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"The good news: he does seem to realize he needs some additional help. Professional help. I just dont know at this point if he has decided these things on his own, or based on his dads influence. ...And that worries me because most of you say another person cannot coax an addict into treatment or it wont be successful.

But regardless, he says that he is going to live at his boss/friends for the next few months. I think the idea is to give him some stability because its not a money issue, etc.
....but then again this means people are helping him, and so many of you say no, you cant help ...

He also has scheduled an appointment with a therapist/psychologist for tomorrow!

This is something that he talked about for months, but was unwilling to do. He says he realizes that he was triggered and that when he had the split second to handle his feelings with or without drugs ..... he chose the drugs and once he made that decision it was done. So he says he wants help with that.
He is sticking to his story that he has been clean all these months and it was a one-time binge, based on being triggered by an argument with his boss/friend (whom is sort of like his dad) and thoughts he had been having towards his dad lately due to the holidays. "

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These decisions and this plan....I wasnt involved in any of it. I saw him a couple of times in the hospital and then I stayed clear (out of confusion) until that day I came home and he was in my apartment. Thats when he told me what he had decided. When I talked to him that day he wasnt sure he was going to do the blood test or sign over power of attorney. This I know was all his dad.....

I dont think right now he resents doing these things; he may in the future.
Since Ive known him, I have not sensed any resentment or anger in him regarding his dad. Ive never heard him blame his dad for anything. Sort of the opposite....he said he wished he had listened to his dad when he tried to get him some help; he said it was a mistake . And the fact that he hadnt talked to his dad in 1.5 yrs -- originally I think he was angry for making him leave the company, and well the whole process that was involved in that (thats for another post....), then I think he was too sick to contact his dad, and then I think he felt too ashamed to do it. Even these last months since he has been working and doing well... I kept suggesting that he call his dad ....but he kept telling me no, he wasnt ready. Seemed like he wanted to get so some point before he could prove to his dad-- whatever he wanted to prove.

the second question.....
....yes I thought you guys would tell me he didnt deserve pie.

the third question....
Ill be back about that one.... (Lame excuse for avoidance)

KelleyF

Thank you; this forum has been helping me tremendously. Right now you guys are the only ones I have to turn to, or to vent with.

One of my best friends the other day had me so upset; I know she is only concerned about me, but she said so seriously 'you would have been better off if he had just died" Who says something like that? especially so soon after my walking in and finding him on the floor? that was the most horrible experience and even that whole story I didnt share with her because I knew her reaction would have been even worse.

I think my Codependent No more book will come tomorrow in the mail. the thought of reading it makes me a bit anxious....
Others have suggested I go to a meeting; but I just dont think I can do that right now. But I feel like if Im going to continue on with him then I have to be strong enough to do whatever it takes to take care of me. and if Im not willing to do that then maybe Im making the wrong decision. Thinking about it

No he is not an adolescent. He's 32 Other than the drug issues...and possibly a controlling parent issue....he is a-ok mentally.

Do you think he can find a way to resent me over this "plan" even though I didnt have anything to do with it? I am preparing myself for him to be more emotionally unstable because of the 3x week sessions with the Dr. but I hadnt really thought about him turning his anger / resentment towards me.

KelleyF

I think Im getting more centered in that I cant HELP him through this. I need to support him; and I need to learn the best ways to do that....other than totally leaving him as suggested by many.....(you know who you are)

and as far as taking care of me....well thats just gotta be ME Dont really have anyone to fall back on if I wanted.

KelleyF

Thank you Steel Magnolia,

I had a very nice Christmas

If you are lucky, even in dark times there can be found moments of happiness

...and yes everything is better with pie
...or chocolate, or cake, or cookies, brownies, fudge, ice cream.....

Hugs

KelleyF

I dont know, I think he can fail in being what I want; left to my discretion not his.
...I think that is what he meant.

He's 32 and Im 28 but yes I know I seem young and nieve. This world of addiction and recovery is not my world. When thinking clearly I know Im in over my head. His life experiences are much more extensive than mine. Marriage, child, death of child, divorce, drug addiction, recovery, relapse, recovery, relapse, near death, ? and me not that much drama....clean living, sheltered by rainbows most my life; not that I havent had my sadness and troubles...everyone does but I dont have near the demons.

How old did you think he was?

lesliej

i didn't say he didn't "deserve" pie.
why would i say anything about what he "deserves"
what i am noticing is that you talk about pie on a recovery post, concerning someone who just OD'd and almost died and you talk about it as an OMG moment...that is alarming

my qualifying addict STILL at 49 years old brings up the horrific issues of the abuse he suffered as a child. yes, the abuse is an issue, BUT his recalcitrant addiction (recovery, relapse, recovery, relapse...NO OD YET) is USING the issue (don't we all have to deal with issues) as an excuse to keep using. the addiction uses the resentment, keeps focused on it...and then uses the pain that the child suffered as an excuse for all the pain that the 49 year old creates in his active addiction.

you are so way in over your head

but i think you are excited by it

it's a big juicy wild interesting project with all kinds of new things to try to "understand" don't you see...I have been studying my addict's case for two years...and I have LOADS of time in recovery, and classes and intensive retreats in treatment, and a huge community of recovery including dozens or recovering drug addicts...and STILL all I know is that his addiction hurts people

what more do you need to know

you just think he needs you...
i want to see ONE person reply to this thread who agrees with you

lesliej

he has massive issues to deal with and he has to wrestle with the nasty demon of addiction, including almost DYING from it...and you bring him pie. and then pretend like its christmas.

WTF WTF WTF????

outtolunch

My sense of him, based on what you have shared put him in his 30's. And yet right now, he 's coming off child-like. His inability, to cope with a disagreement at work ( assuming that was the trigger) almost cost him his life. He's staying with a friend instead of living in his own place. The need for an entourage to the therapist and resentment that you and his dad ate pie ( of all things) while he "had to" see the doctor..... It's just off.

laurie6781

Nope, ACTUALLY IT IS ABOUT RIGHT. Most A's be they alcoholic, addict or both, STOP MATURING and stay at the AGE they picked up their drug of choice. Thus, she has someone, I would say very early teens. A CHILD in an Adult body.

I suspect Kelley, since you say you have never had any contact with addiction or addicted people that Leslie may have hit on something. This is a 'new' project for you. This is 'exciting' and the 'drama' is 'SUCKING YOU IN.'

Let me just say, GET OFF THE ROLLER COASTER, and STEP WAY BACK FROM THE DRAMA. This is going to get a LOT STICKIER before and if he finds recovery.

It goes along with the proof, that many girls as they hit puberty, seem to choose 'the wild boy', the 'boy who does not conform', rather than the 'sober studious boy.' It's called EXCITEMENT. The 'bad boy' always elicits more EXCITEMENT in the 'young lady' than the 'boy that mommy and daddy approve of.'

The man child has a very LONG WAY TO GO. Doesn't sound like he is doing this for him, he is doing this to get 'daddy off his back'.

Now he is going to have a pretty nice place to stay, with decent food, hot and cold running water and he'll have a 'vacation' to bring his physical help back up. Unless, something really CLICKS while he is in there, and he starts his own 'attitude adjustment' BIG TIME. It will not be long out of rehab and he will be on his DOC (drug of choice again) or a different one and justifying it by saying "well it's not such and such', .

I do hope YOU get some help both privately and in some face to face meetings, so that you can figure out what 'drew' you to him. This will help you to work on your own codependency and how to differentiate between ''helping someone in need ie someones whose house burned down, or have been unemployed due to the economy and not drugs, etc versus enabling an A or someone who could put their big boy or girl pants on and help themselves."

This post btw is not meant to 'put you down' or anything like that. It is just to bring up points that I and others are becoming aware of in your situation, only because WE HAVE BEEN THERE.

Until and unless he someday chooses to do a massive ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT on himself, then:

HIS PAST BEHAVIORS AND ACTIONS ARE A GOOD PREDICTOR OF HIS FUTURE BEHAVIORS AND ACTIONS.

Love and hugs,

Freedom1990

Believe me when I say if you think you are over your head now, and I agree with that assessment, this is mild compared to what is in store for you down the road.

I was very sheltered from the addiction/alcoholism in family members while growing up (all uncles). When I left home at 18, I was very unprepared for what life was like "out there."

I was naive.

I can totally relate to what Laurie said about an exciting project. When I met my EXAH, I was attracted to the long hair, prison tattoos, and his rebellious attitude. I also bought it hook, line, and sinker that he was a victim, a victim of circumstance, always at the wrong place at the wrong time when crimes were committed, and life had dealt him a rough hand.

Here was someone I could fix, could mold into what I thought my perfect partner could be. If I loved him enough, cared enough, supported him enough, he would morph into Mr. Wonderful. Poor guy was just misunderstood!

That kind of thinking damned near killed me.

I can also say as a long-term recovering addict/alcoholic that I was 28 years old when I got out of rehab, and there was no one to "help" or "support" me other than my counselor, my friends in 12-step programs, and that was exactly what I needed.

I did not need family members or a significant other giving me a place to stay, run me to doctor appointments, etc.

I had to get out there and be a productive member of society quick in order to maintain recovery and take care of my daughter and myself. I will forever be grateful for the hard-nosed sponsors I have had who didn't buy my BS and taught me a better way to live.

You are in over your head in my opinion. You are the only one who can change that.

Sending you hugs of support.

TiredandSpent

Interesting he's going to go live with his boss since it was an argument with his boss that 'triggered' the overdose that almost ended his life. I would think his boss would be the last person he should live with, but what do I know...?

One thing I noticed is that your posts are all full of guessing about his feelings and motives--and none about yours. Here's a sample:

Is he or isn't he resentful of his father? He wasn't in the past, but might be in the future, but probably isn't now.... You think he feels this... You know he felt that... He said he thought this, but maybe he thought something else....

Uggggghhhhh!!!!!!

What about you? It's futile for you to focus on any of his 'stuff'. And what does it matter anyway, you can't fix it, and you are not trained to guide him through it.

But it could be very possible for you to improve your 'stuff', if you spend this all this energy thinking about how you feel and how you think and how your past is influencing your present and what might occur in your future if you make this decision versus that decision.

KelleyF

The pie' was not an OMG moment in any way related by the RABF. At the time it wasn’t even a second thought. I just noted it as an OMG moment for my post because one of the things that sticks in my head reading other posts - is comments like "I threw him out without any shoes - in the winter" " who cares if he has a place to bathe" and even in this post someone says " he's got it made - he's going to have running water" I cannot relate to this.

You guys think I need therapy to figure out why I was attracted to him?

Its not a wild relationship: He’s quiet and polite, and clean cut looking. No tattoos, no loud music, no people coming round his place, no motorcycle, just a bmw, always a neat apartment, cooks and does the dishes, loves books…..normal. when I met him he was waiting for his "license" to come through so he could work in his chosen profession in this state, and then he got a good job, a really responsible job, and he went to work everyday, and he loved his work....he always has treated me with respect, concern, and love. There is nothing to elicit any excitement; other than being in love with him.

I choose to believe he was honest about the past drug use and his fear of relapse
I never saw drugs, and never saw him acting like he was on drugs. The only remnants of drugs that I ever saw were marks on his arm, but they faded…

And no I don’t see him as child-like in his overall behavior. But he definitely has dad issues.

His dad is controlling; he dad enabled his drug use for a long time; he kept him from losing his license, he kept him from losing his career, he kept him out of jail at least once that I know of, he covered up problems at work; stuff he would have been fired for and maybe prosecuted for if it had been anywhere else. His dad finally got fed up after some horrible incidents and that’s when RABF left. Dad tried to find him; RABF didn’t change his address; his bills piled up; dad paid them; dad even paid his credit card while he was missing’ – tried to track him through his transactions at least twice. And I finally found out how RADB got enough cash to relocate when he said he was strung out on drugs and broke. Cash advance on the credit cards. He was taking cash advances on the credit cards and using the money for drugs and his dad was footing the bill. Not little advances; large advances. His dad paid for his first time in rehab years back; some expensive place in CA where they live; not a 12 step program; RABF doesn’t believe in the 12 steps. And when RABF OD and was in the hospital; before he left the hospital – dad had a Dr from that rehab place in CA come out here to see him; RABF wouldn’t go to rehab he refused; I think his dad tried to somehow legally force him – so maybe this deal he struck with his dad is the compromise they made. Like I said, wasn’t involved in it. RABF has a lot of guilt over stuff he did to his dad; he respects his dad a lot; things his dad said to him before he left have stuck with him – he told me that when he was really sick and using part of the time it was based on a response to thinking about what his dad said, and when he tried to get cleaned up it was based on the same response. It’s a very complicated relationship. His dad is intimidating. I mentioned before he got RABF evicted; I know this for sure because I talked to some people at the complex, and then he paid half year rent on my apartment without telling me, and later I found out he paid my tuition for this semester in grad school also. I don’t know how he even did this….. or why; at first I thought he wanted me to go away; then I thought he wanted me to stay; but he told me he wasn’t trying to get involved in my relationship with RABF either way. I have no idea what his motives are. He loves his son. He is trying to help him; to protect him. That is all I know.

And Tired and Spent you are right; that is what I tried to say before I got bombarded over PIE.
I accept I cant fix him; its up to him. He has a plan - I hope it works.

Im going to treat him normal; and hope I don’t damage him too much.
I have not got over the incident with the ‘skank’ - that will take time and he has work to do to earn my full trust again.

If he wants to end things to work on his “inner self” then Im not stopping him; He can meditate in a hut with another ex-addict if he chooses and they can analyze themselves silly.

I love him but Im not desperate to keep him. At the moment Im not afraid to stay either.

I am going to continue to analyze myself; and learn about addiction and recovery . I may be in over my head, but if I stay in it long enough (without bailing) then I will learn.