new to forum - call from a friend
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 4
new to forum - call from a friend
I am new to the forum, in fact, I believe tonight is the first time I have googled “friends of alcoholics” or considered attending an alanon meeting. I may decide not to post this once I’ve finished writing, but if that is the case perhaps it will have served its purpose, allowing me to vent, albeit privately. (So if anyone is reading this, that means I decided to post it!)
My childhood friend, whom I have known since third grade, is an alcoholic. Her parents died when she was an adolescent, the remainder of her family was not stable, and she lived with my family during the last two years of high school. We maintained a close friendship until about age 30, when we had a very serious break, sparked by alcoholism and the issues it causes (perhaps some of those issues contributed to the alcoholism, not that it matters). This post is already too long, so I will spare the details. Suffice to say, I decided I had to remove myself from deep involvement for my own well-being, and drew a line in the sand. She was angry, and we lost touch for quite a while.
Subsequently, she called me every few years, and usually this leads to several months of phone calls. Sometimes I contribute to the increased dialogue by initiating the calls, and occasionally we have gotten together. Most years, even when we are not in touch, I send her Christmas and birthday cards, although I am not usually sure the address will still be correct. Every one of these periods of contact ends abruptly - most of the time alcohol causes some sort of episode, and she either stops calling or I stop answering. A few years ago, I told her not to call me when she was drinking. During the last round of contact (in ‘08), she didn’t seem to remember this, and the conversations were rambles where it was hard to tell if she was drunk or brain damaged.
Twenty years have passed since we were routinely in touch, and we are both now 50. She called me again two nights ago. She seemed much more “clear” than she did three years ago. She told me so much information that my head is spinning. Among the things she said was that she has been sober for over a year, after being in a residential facility for 15 months. She is on dialysis from years of drinking, anorexia and bulimia, and she has had a bout with throat cancer. She is not living with (although she is still seeing) her last boyfriend, who just did some jail time for DWI. She has me down as her emergency contact. She said the call was part of the 12 steps, that she was calling to apologize, but that it wasn’t only due to the 12 steps - she really wanted to reach out to me. She said she hopes it isn’t a one time thing, and that she would love to see me. She remembered that I told her to not call me unless she was sober.
I have made a plan, though it is a "rough draft." If she is respectful and doesn't ring my phone off the hook with many hours of circular non-productive conversation and laughing/crying, I am going to call her in a week or so. If that goes well then I will arrange to meet her at a diner or something. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, and assuming the health problems she shared are real, my heart goes out to her. It sounds like she has good support from the providers whose care she is under, but she doesn’t have a reliable or nearby family, and I think no one should have to go it alone. I am asking myself, what little cost there is to me, a fortunate person with a great life - in letting her in again?
It is always hard to tell what is true and what isn’t, but she seemed sincere, and her attitude was good. However, I have to be cautious, unfortunately – or else there is the risk of getting caught up in day dreams of normalcy that don't work out and instead turn into painful drama. Also I don't want to say the wrong thing, be an enabler (or impediment to her progress).
I’m not sure what I am expecting from this forum, maybe just a sympathetic ear. Any insights would be appreciated. Thanks for “listening.”
My childhood friend, whom I have known since third grade, is an alcoholic. Her parents died when she was an adolescent, the remainder of her family was not stable, and she lived with my family during the last two years of high school. We maintained a close friendship until about age 30, when we had a very serious break, sparked by alcoholism and the issues it causes (perhaps some of those issues contributed to the alcoholism, not that it matters). This post is already too long, so I will spare the details. Suffice to say, I decided I had to remove myself from deep involvement for my own well-being, and drew a line in the sand. She was angry, and we lost touch for quite a while.
Subsequently, she called me every few years, and usually this leads to several months of phone calls. Sometimes I contribute to the increased dialogue by initiating the calls, and occasionally we have gotten together. Most years, even when we are not in touch, I send her Christmas and birthday cards, although I am not usually sure the address will still be correct. Every one of these periods of contact ends abruptly - most of the time alcohol causes some sort of episode, and she either stops calling or I stop answering. A few years ago, I told her not to call me when she was drinking. During the last round of contact (in ‘08), she didn’t seem to remember this, and the conversations were rambles where it was hard to tell if she was drunk or brain damaged.
Twenty years have passed since we were routinely in touch, and we are both now 50. She called me again two nights ago. She seemed much more “clear” than she did three years ago. She told me so much information that my head is spinning. Among the things she said was that she has been sober for over a year, after being in a residential facility for 15 months. She is on dialysis from years of drinking, anorexia and bulimia, and she has had a bout with throat cancer. She is not living with (although she is still seeing) her last boyfriend, who just did some jail time for DWI. She has me down as her emergency contact. She said the call was part of the 12 steps, that she was calling to apologize, but that it wasn’t only due to the 12 steps - she really wanted to reach out to me. She said she hopes it isn’t a one time thing, and that she would love to see me. She remembered that I told her to not call me unless she was sober.
I have made a plan, though it is a "rough draft." If she is respectful and doesn't ring my phone off the hook with many hours of circular non-productive conversation and laughing/crying, I am going to call her in a week or so. If that goes well then I will arrange to meet her at a diner or something. I want to give her the benefit of the doubt, and assuming the health problems she shared are real, my heart goes out to her. It sounds like she has good support from the providers whose care she is under, but she doesn’t have a reliable or nearby family, and I think no one should have to go it alone. I am asking myself, what little cost there is to me, a fortunate person with a great life - in letting her in again?
It is always hard to tell what is true and what isn’t, but she seemed sincere, and her attitude was good. However, I have to be cautious, unfortunately – or else there is the risk of getting caught up in day dreams of normalcy that don't work out and instead turn into painful drama. Also I don't want to say the wrong thing, be an enabler (or impediment to her progress).
I’m not sure what I am expecting from this forum, maybe just a sympathetic ear. Any insights would be appreciated. Thanks for “listening.”
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
Welcome!
I think it is hard whoever in your life is struggling. I think you found just the right place.
I personally have found Al-anon a GREAT support, not just in my relationships with a loved one with alcohol problems, but with everyone in my life.
I think it is hard whoever in your life is struggling. I think you found just the right place.
I personally have found Al-anon a GREAT support, not just in my relationships with a loved one with alcohol problems, but with everyone in my life.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
Welcome Howzer!
You have found a wonderful place full of folks who have experience in this realm.
Since it sounds as though you are a "normie" (non-alcoholic party), you may not be aware of the INCREDIBLE recovery network for alcoholics in just about every crack and crevice of the world, full of folks in recovery, available for free to her, any time she chooses.
My point being, the BEST folks for her to stick around are OTHER folks successfully living in recovery and they are always available to her, so she would never need to "go it alone" regardless of you or other (lack of) biological family. You can let yourself off the guilt hook for needing to be in that role, to "be there so she isn't alone."
That said, you are in a great place here at SR to help you navigate how to make decisions about whether or not, or to what extent, to interface with an alcoholic! You will find incredible information about this landscape, and many bits of experience and wisdom in the reading you could do here - the sticky posts at the top of the list of topics are a great resource.
I'll leave off here, for others to welcome you. We support you in having healthy boundaries, to limit your exposure to the damage to YOU and YOUR LIFE from alcoholism. But we also understand having an alcoholic in our life sphere, because we are each here due to a loved one affected by alcoholism.
CLMI
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
In my experience and life philosophy I believe we are all on this planet together and that when our paths cross and recross it very possibly can be for a reason ... our lives are like a tapestry and our community is woven together with many threads.
When someone we care about is broken and hurting and they pop up on God's guest list of your life I try to pray about what I can do to be salt and light wihtout becoming hopelessly emeshed in what can easily become a toxic or life draining situation.
This balance only comes from a path of LOT of mistakes on my part in the past... I am much better at quickly determining what is a healthy course of action and not allowing the sick person to manipulate or cause me anguish or guilt if I don't allow them to step over healthy boundaries.
That being said... you are very, very wise to come here and ask advice from the posters who are on this site and I also suggest that visiting an alanon group or several groups in your area and connecting with them would be a very helpful step for you.
Only you and your HP can determine what should be your path with your friend ... I am extremely empathetic to those who are alcoholic and I always try to help those who want help in whatever way I can... but ONLY in a healthy and productive way! THis is often harder than it sounds as alcoholics are often like the panicked swimmer who is drowning that tries to climb up the back of the rescuer and drowns them both!
Sometimes you have to hit the drunk in the head and knock them out and drag them back to shore... just kidding but it feels that way sometimes!
Where is your friends family? They would be a great source of information on previous attempts to help her get sober.
When someone we care about is broken and hurting and they pop up on God's guest list of your life I try to pray about what I can do to be salt and light wihtout becoming hopelessly emeshed in what can easily become a toxic or life draining situation.
This balance only comes from a path of LOT of mistakes on my part in the past... I am much better at quickly determining what is a healthy course of action and not allowing the sick person to manipulate or cause me anguish or guilt if I don't allow them to step over healthy boundaries.
That being said... you are very, very wise to come here and ask advice from the posters who are on this site and I also suggest that visiting an alanon group or several groups in your area and connecting with them would be a very helpful step for you.
Only you and your HP can determine what should be your path with your friend ... I am extremely empathetic to those who are alcoholic and I always try to help those who want help in whatever way I can... but ONLY in a healthy and productive way! THis is often harder than it sounds as alcoholics are often like the panicked swimmer who is drowning that tries to climb up the back of the rescuer and drowns them both!
Sometimes you have to hit the drunk in the head and knock them out and drag them back to shore... just kidding but it feels that way sometimes!
Where is your friends family? They would be a great source of information on previous attempts to help her get sober.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,288
do you feel she'll try to "attach" herself to you if you show interest, then hard to get rid off because she would be bringing all her baggage into your life? And you really don't want that?
If you're in a comfortable place in your life and you don't want extra drama, I would understand why you're not sure you want to meet with her.
If you're in a comfortable place in your life and you don't want extra drama, I would understand why you're not sure you want to meet with her.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 4
Wow! Thank you all for your responses!
Liferecovery: thank you for your kind welcome!
Catlovermi: that makes me feel better already, and it sounds like good advice to me. (Also a cat [and dog, and all animal] liver.)
Hopeworks: also my philosophy. Faith is my rock, and I have been praying over this. (Perhaps that led me here.) When we were last in contact in ‘08, my friend was very bitter toward religion, God and spirituality, and that had been a barrier to her participation in 12 step programs. One thing she said to me during our recent phone call was that she finally “gets” spirituality. There is the thought in my mind that connecting to faith may be my role, might even be the reason for the call.
Major support from her family is not an option even though she has 3 older siblings. All have had very difficult lives. The relationships have extremely complicated dynamics, and been toxic or distant or both. Two live many states away. The closest one (75 miles away) has serious mental issues, allowed (or participated in) abuse of my friend after their mother died (that was the reason she came to live with my family) and (IMO) my friend figuring out how to cut the ties with her may be one necessary ingredient to recovery and peace.
Kiki5711: you are very astute! I suppose that *is* what scares me. Twenty years ago, when we had our break (which I remember but suspect she may not) it came after many years of anguish. I would have to write a thesis to detail it all, but the Reader’s Digest Condensed version is that after I finished undergrad, she moved from our hometown to the city where I live. She’d had a rocky time after high school, a series of jobs, relationships, and unsuccessful college experiences. She got her first DWI. She exhibited signs of anorexia and bulimia. She would visit me for the weekend, and stay for days, calling in sick to her job, drinking the alcohol in my house while I was at work and filling the bottles with water, picking up one-night stands, doing my laundry and cleaning the house as some sort of “offering.”
Then she met a man who was stable. Her fiancé moved with her to my area, she seemed happy, and her life appeared to be going well. She gained weight and reported getting treatment for her eating disorder. Eventually, the day of my graduation from graduate school, at the party I was hosting for family and friends at my house, she tearfully told me she felt trapped by the prospect of marriage. Eventually, she broke up with her fiancé, and spiraled downward in the months following, crashing her car, getting another DWI.
The day of our mutual “best” friend’s wedding, as we were preparing to leave (it is a drive and we were going together) she locked me in the bathroom and told me that if I loved her, I would stay with her and not go to the wedding. When I forced my way out of the bathroom and said I was going, she could come with me or not, her choice, as I was leaving she yelled we had never been friends and if I left, she never wanted to see me again. That was the permission I needed – the freedom I felt was cathartic as I ran down the stairs to my car. Her life has continued a downward spiral, but I have not been involved in the same way since then. I have not been there to pick her up and make excuses. Our relationship could have gone on, if I pretended nothing happened, called her when I got back from the wedding, extended invitations to her, and taken her places (as she has had no driver’s license since then), shared holiday meals with her, tolerated evenings out with a revolving door of marginal men. But I didn’t. I allowed years to go by, and when she has contacted me since then the dynamics have changed.
Now I am thinking twenty years have passed, I am in a way different place than when I was thirty. My life was good then, but now it is even more stable. I have achieved some distance from the machinations of our relationship, I don’t think it would impact me in quite the same way as it did then. I am 50, not a kid. I am better able to set boundaries in my life generally. I would never tolerate waking up in the morning and finding strange men in my kitchen.
However, I have learned that some of the things she has told me, both in our youth and over the years, have not been true. I believe that it is very possible she is in recovery, that she is on dialysis, that she has been treated for cancer. I wish the last two things in that list weren’t true – but assuming they are (I can’t believe she would lie about having such serious health issues?) I don’t want to do nothing and feel the guilt I will undoubtedly experience if I turn my back. Face to face contact may be necessary so I am better able to assess the situation and decide if there is a role for me that would be beneficial to us both.
Catlovermi: that makes me feel better already, and it sounds like good advice to me. (Also a cat [and dog, and all animal] liver.)
Hopeworks: also my philosophy. Faith is my rock, and I have been praying over this. (Perhaps that led me here.) When we were last in contact in ‘08, my friend was very bitter toward religion, God and spirituality, and that had been a barrier to her participation in 12 step programs. One thing she said to me during our recent phone call was that she finally “gets” spirituality. There is the thought in my mind that connecting to faith may be my role, might even be the reason for the call.
Major support from her family is not an option even though she has 3 older siblings. All have had very difficult lives. The relationships have extremely complicated dynamics, and been toxic or distant or both. Two live many states away. The closest one (75 miles away) has serious mental issues, allowed (or participated in) abuse of my friend after their mother died (that was the reason she came to live with my family) and (IMO) my friend figuring out how to cut the ties with her may be one necessary ingredient to recovery and peace.
Kiki5711: you are very astute! I suppose that *is* what scares me. Twenty years ago, when we had our break (which I remember but suspect she may not) it came after many years of anguish. I would have to write a thesis to detail it all, but the Reader’s Digest Condensed version is that after I finished undergrad, she moved from our hometown to the city where I live. She’d had a rocky time after high school, a series of jobs, relationships, and unsuccessful college experiences. She got her first DWI. She exhibited signs of anorexia and bulimia. She would visit me for the weekend, and stay for days, calling in sick to her job, drinking the alcohol in my house while I was at work and filling the bottles with water, picking up one-night stands, doing my laundry and cleaning the house as some sort of “offering.”
Then she met a man who was stable. Her fiancé moved with her to my area, she seemed happy, and her life appeared to be going well. She gained weight and reported getting treatment for her eating disorder. Eventually, the day of my graduation from graduate school, at the party I was hosting for family and friends at my house, she tearfully told me she felt trapped by the prospect of marriage. Eventually, she broke up with her fiancé, and spiraled downward in the months following, crashing her car, getting another DWI.
The day of our mutual “best” friend’s wedding, as we were preparing to leave (it is a drive and we were going together) she locked me in the bathroom and told me that if I loved her, I would stay with her and not go to the wedding. When I forced my way out of the bathroom and said I was going, she could come with me or not, her choice, as I was leaving she yelled we had never been friends and if I left, she never wanted to see me again. That was the permission I needed – the freedom I felt was cathartic as I ran down the stairs to my car. Her life has continued a downward spiral, but I have not been involved in the same way since then. I have not been there to pick her up and make excuses. Our relationship could have gone on, if I pretended nothing happened, called her when I got back from the wedding, extended invitations to her, and taken her places (as she has had no driver’s license since then), shared holiday meals with her, tolerated evenings out with a revolving door of marginal men. But I didn’t. I allowed years to go by, and when she has contacted me since then the dynamics have changed.
Now I am thinking twenty years have passed, I am in a way different place than when I was thirty. My life was good then, but now it is even more stable. I have achieved some distance from the machinations of our relationship, I don’t think it would impact me in quite the same way as it did then. I am 50, not a kid. I am better able to set boundaries in my life generally. I would never tolerate waking up in the morning and finding strange men in my kitchen.
However, I have learned that some of the things she has told me, both in our youth and over the years, have not been true. I believe that it is very possible she is in recovery, that she is on dialysis, that she has been treated for cancer. I wish the last two things in that list weren’t true – but assuming they are (I can’t believe she would lie about having such serious health issues?) I don’t want to do nothing and feel the guilt I will undoubtedly experience if I turn my back. Face to face contact may be necessary so I am better able to assess the situation and decide if there is a role for me that would be beneficial to us both.
Skipper
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Texas, USA
Posts: 827
Yes, I believe with time and prayer, truth will be revealed. We can always give ourselves permission to take our own time to make decisions that are best for us. Doing the Next Right Thing sometimes takes a little time.
I think your caution is justified and actually very healthy!
I think your caution is justified and actually very healthy!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 4
I thought about it, prayed about it, discussed it with a few folks who are close to me, and today I decided to proceed with my plan. I called her at the number she gave me last week. The automated voice said "the telephone number you have dialed is temporarily not in service." Some things never change...
Whether I will hear from her again soon, or if years will go by -- who knows.
Whether I will hear from her again soon, or if years will go by -- who knows.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: northeastern u.s. metro area
Posts: 87
it's sad to read what you finally say. i can't describe how, but there is a strong feeling of sadness brought about in me by reading it. i'm sorry that it turned out to be a disappointing situation "for nothing." however your sharing this small piece of your life has been very inspiring for me today. i admire the strength and boundaries you've maintained in this relationship over the years. i feel a large part of this new life in recovery will be learning to do the same. thank you.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 4
Catmilkyo,
You're welcome!
I hoped it would turn out differently this time, and I still hope that someday things will turn out better...but I accept that they may not.
I have found this forum to be helpful, many thanks to all for listening.
You're welcome!
I hoped it would turn out differently this time, and I still hope that someday things will turn out better...but I accept that they may not.
I have found this forum to be helpful, many thanks to all for listening.
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