A decision I am facing.
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Join Date: Jun 2009
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A decision I am facing.
I suffer from depression. Going to meetings is great, I have been to very many over the past few months. I am doing the steps, but most importantly, I am handing over in the mornings. This alone should be enough. The other steps are add ons and me praying every morning and evening should be enough.
The reason I am writing this is out of a bit of anger and frustration. And Fear.
I have heard others share at meetings with depression. I heard a girl last week share, she was doing the steps for the second time. She was suicidal. How come? Surely she should have sorted herself out first time round. I was afraid and alarmed when I heard this. It translated in my mind that there are things that you cant change about yourself that cannot be removed no matter what. This girl was in a very tough spot. i felt for her, many didnt see or hear what I was seeing. A woman who was putting enormous pressure on herself to do steps.
So I go back to myself. I am going to a sponsor, a lovely guy who has recovered from hell. He is wise. He is well meaning. He loves life. He is at peace. Yet, I am on the fourth step with him, and he wants me to stop taking anti depressants. There is a lot at stake here to do that. there is a huge amount at stake. I keep thinking of the girl last week and what doing fouth steps has done for her. Why does she have to redo them? why didnt they work the first time? Did she not do them properly? was she not handing over properly?
I am afraid of all this. I know that I am in a place where I am not well. I have put a huge amount of pressure on myself about this. Conventional medicine has to play a role here in my head.
I have defects of character for sure. I have a crazy head. This will never change, because it makes us who we are as humans, and who we are as alcoholics. Changing this or trying to remove them could be a bridge too far for me.
What should I do??
The reason I am writing this is out of a bit of anger and frustration. And Fear.
I have heard others share at meetings with depression. I heard a girl last week share, she was doing the steps for the second time. She was suicidal. How come? Surely she should have sorted herself out first time round. I was afraid and alarmed when I heard this. It translated in my mind that there are things that you cant change about yourself that cannot be removed no matter what. This girl was in a very tough spot. i felt for her, many didnt see or hear what I was seeing. A woman who was putting enormous pressure on herself to do steps.
So I go back to myself. I am going to a sponsor, a lovely guy who has recovered from hell. He is wise. He is well meaning. He loves life. He is at peace. Yet, I am on the fourth step with him, and he wants me to stop taking anti depressants. There is a lot at stake here to do that. there is a huge amount at stake. I keep thinking of the girl last week and what doing fouth steps has done for her. Why does she have to redo them? why didnt they work the first time? Did she not do them properly? was she not handing over properly?
I am afraid of all this. I know that I am in a place where I am not well. I have put a huge amount of pressure on myself about this. Conventional medicine has to play a role here in my head.
I have defects of character for sure. I have a crazy head. This will never change, because it makes us who we are as humans, and who we are as alcoholics. Changing this or trying to remove them could be a bridge too far for me.
What should I do??
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Between Meetings
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For one...I wouldn't be taking medical advice from your sponsor....For two...Don't worry about the other girl...Maybe she is taking the steps again because she halfassed them the first time. Who knows....Who cares...You just have to be totally honest with yourself while taking the fourth step...It's a key step in the recovery program...maybe someday you can stop taking meds...I don't know that. If you are looking for a reason not to do a fearless and thorough 4th step...I've heard a lot them...They're all out there drinking somewhere. Rarely have we seen a person fail...You know the rest.
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,279
Hi Eddie,
It sounds like you are doing well, try not to worry too much about what others are going through although your kindness & compassion is admirable. As great as your sponsor is he is not a doctor. If you would like to cut back on your meds/dose have an honest conversation with your doctor about your situation & see where it leads.
Dont worry too much about defects of character right now, we are all evolving at our own pace & you are sober, going to meetings and working on the steps with a sponsor you admire & respect... it sounds like things are on a pretty good track from here.
Don't be too hard on yourself of expect too much too fast. You are doing great! Be kind & patient with yourself you deserve it.
All of the best with your ongoing recovery ~ NB
It sounds like you are doing well, try not to worry too much about what others are going through although your kindness & compassion is admirable. As great as your sponsor is he is not a doctor. If you would like to cut back on your meds/dose have an honest conversation with your doctor about your situation & see where it leads.
Dont worry too much about defects of character right now, we are all evolving at our own pace & you are sober, going to meetings and working on the steps with a sponsor you admire & respect... it sounds like things are on a pretty good track from here.
Don't be too hard on yourself of expect too much too fast. You are doing great! Be kind & patient with yourself you deserve it.
All of the best with your ongoing recovery ~ NB
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by eddie73 
I am handing over in the mornings. This alone should be enough. The other steps are add ons and me praying every morning and evening should be enough.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,355
Hi Eddie 
You deserve to be happy and content just like any one else. There are loads of alcoholics here who are happy and content - and many of them have mental health issues as well.
I'm not in AA but I've never heard anyone claim the 12 steps as a cure for all kinds of illness and malady.
I have heard lots of people say they go to AA for their alcoholism, and they see their Dr or therapist for their other medical issues.
That sounds about right to me.
I do not take my medical advice from lay people.
D
You deserve to be happy and content just like any one else. There are loads of alcoholics here who are happy and content - and many of them have mental health issues as well.
I'm not in AA but I've never heard anyone claim the 12 steps as a cure for all kinds of illness and malady.
I have heard lots of people say they go to AA for their alcoholism, and they see their Dr or therapist for their other medical issues.
That sounds about right to me.
I do not take my medical advice from lay people.
D
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 413
Thank you Dee, that is very helpful. Sapling, clearing wreckage is great, but when you still feel bad or even suicidal after making an honest inventory, it is time to question things in a big way. I am not looking for excuses for quitting. I am more to the point, wanting to do the right thing and balance my expectations.
Depression and the steps are 2 different things methinks. I had the depression before I abused alcohol.
Depression and the steps are 2 different things methinks. I had the depression before I abused alcohol.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Texas, a state of mind
Posts: 380
It is easy for a person to say they completed the 12 steps. It is impossible to know with what seriousness, what quality of mind, what completeness, etc. the steps were done by anyone but oneself.
I would be wary of the thought "causing you to question everything". It sounds like me getting ready to drink. "Nothing works; AA folks relapse; all that Higher Power mumbo jumbo...off to the liquor store we go".
And yes, your sponsor is not your doctor. I'm not sure what kind of grandiosity would lead a lay person to advise stopping anti-depressants, but that would be a big red flag for me.
I would be wary of the thought "causing you to question everything". It sounds like me getting ready to drink. "Nothing works; AA folks relapse; all that Higher Power mumbo jumbo...off to the liquor store we go".
And yes, your sponsor is not your doctor. I'm not sure what kind of grandiosity would lead a lay person to advise stopping anti-depressants, but that would be a big red flag for me.
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
Having seen a few people hit the wall because they felt the meds they took for a legitimate chemical imbalance kept them from being sober, I cringe when I hear that some misguided sponsor is playing doctor. Even though my experience has proven that the steps were what I needed to fix my thinking, and once my thinking was fixed, my depression went away, I know that I'm not qualified to diagnose that state in another human being.
That said, I'd ask a couple of questions: Have you ever abused your meds? Are your meds of the type that lend themselves to abuse? I've also witnessed quite a few folks quit drinking only to transfer their addiction to other things--I did it many times myself. Perhaps that's your sponsor's concern?
And, no, I wouldn't suggest trying to stay sober on the first three steps. Faith without works is dead.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
That said, I'd ask a couple of questions: Have you ever abused your meds? Are your meds of the type that lend themselves to abuse? I've also witnessed quite a few folks quit drinking only to transfer their addiction to other things--I did it many times myself. Perhaps that's your sponsor's concern?
And, no, I wouldn't suggest trying to stay sober on the first three steps. Faith without works is dead.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
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Originally Posted by Dee74
I'm not in AA but I've never heard anyone claim the 12 steps as a cure for all kinds of illness and malady.
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Originally Posted by Dee74
Sorry you're right - I should have said anyone *outside this forum*.
Do you suffer from clinical depression Sapling?
D
Do you suffer from clinical depression Sapling?
D
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Eddie,
I am a newcomer to this site but I would say that (I suffer from bipolar which includes of course depressive states) that to take advice from anyone about discontinuing medication, that isn't a person you trust to know about your need for that medication personally, may not be ideal.
My suggestion would be to continue with your medication and discuss it with a medical professional involved in your treatment. are they aware of your AA attendance?
feeling afraid or concerend about your own capabilities after hearing another's failure, in my view, is understandable. We look to others often ahead of us on a path to demonstrate that it's achievable, but not only is she one of many stories, she is unique, separate from you, and her success or failure does not dictate or affect yours. You sound like you are doing so well, and in a place that although difficult, you are continuing to work towards and successfully so.
Don't base your aptitude for success against others, base it on what you have acheived so far, and I for one, as a newcomer am inspired by your honesty and openness.
Charlie
I am a newcomer to this site but I would say that (I suffer from bipolar which includes of course depressive states) that to take advice from anyone about discontinuing medication, that isn't a person you trust to know about your need for that medication personally, may not be ideal.
My suggestion would be to continue with your medication and discuss it with a medical professional involved in your treatment. are they aware of your AA attendance?
feeling afraid or concerend about your own capabilities after hearing another's failure, in my view, is understandable. We look to others often ahead of us on a path to demonstrate that it's achievable, but not only is she one of many stories, she is unique, separate from you, and her success or failure does not dictate or affect yours. You sound like you are doing so well, and in a place that although difficult, you are continuing to work towards and successfully so.
Don't base your aptitude for success against others, base it on what you have acheived so far, and I for one, as a newcomer am inspired by your honesty and openness.
Charlie
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Originally Posted by Dee74
I'm glad you found the 12 steps was the right medicine for your condition Sapling.
I'm glad I got my depression treated by a Dr, and I still recommend that line of treatment.
D
I'm glad I got my depression treated by a Dr, and I still recommend that line of treatment.
D
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Eddie, as further posts have stated it would be dangerous and ill advised to discontinue taking your medication. Also, focusing on character defects would probably depress anyone. We all have them and it is admirable that you are working on them. How about also making a list of character attributes? I can see from your post that you are honest, compassionate, dedicated and understanding.
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Thanks for all the posts guys. I am very helped by the debate about this. I find that AA is keeping me sober. There is no question about this. Step 4 is a fearless inventory about myself. I am not afraid of doing this, I have baggage for sure, but I am afraid of not feeling better, or rather feeling more frustrated by doing it and still having to deal with my depression. There is my issue in a nutshell. Re the girl who shared last week about her depression and her second time doing the steps, I doubt very very much if she did not do a fearless 4th step last time round. This is my instinct and my opinion having seen her and listened to her story.
Being aware of this is healthy. Flying blind into it is folly. I am going to do the 4th step and see what happens. I will continue to hand over. There is nothing else I can do. Thanks again folks.
Being aware of this is healthy. Flying blind into it is folly. I am going to do the 4th step and see what happens. I will continue to hand over. There is nothing else I can do. Thanks again folks.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
AA is for alcoholism and how to stay sober and it has nothing to do with depression. In fact, AA has no opinion on outside issues (i.e. anti-depressants).
DO NOT. I repeat, DO NOT take medical advice from anyone other than your doctor. And don't let some ignoramous in AA or otherwise tell you you're not sober because of meds prescribed by a doctor.
I would also recommend getting a new sponsor. Telling someone to get of their meds is one of the most irresponsibile things someone in AA can do. It's just plain wrong. No where in the book does it say anything even remotely close to that.
Keep up the hard work eddie. Congrats on your sober time!
DO NOT. I repeat, DO NOT take medical advice from anyone other than your doctor. And don't let some ignoramous in AA or otherwise tell you you're not sober because of meds prescribed by a doctor.
I would also recommend getting a new sponsor. Telling someone to get of their meds is one of the most irresponsibile things someone in AA can do. It's just plain wrong. No where in the book does it say anything even remotely close to that.
Keep up the hard work eddie. Congrats on your sober time!
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Originally Posted by eddie73
I am handing over in the mornings. This alone should be enough. The other steps are add ons and me praying every morning and evening should be enough.
Look at how that 4th Step is introduced in the BB. It talks about getting rid of the things that had been blocking me from the sunlight of the Spirit. I've got a big, fat, bunch of SELF blocking up the spiritual pipeline. That stuff needs to be cleaned out before much spirit flows through.
Eddie, I think I've mentioned this before, that the middle of a 4th Step is a rough place. I almost think that when a psychic change starts to happen, the ego rears its head and starts resisting in a big way. A hundred reasons to not keep moving will pop up. It's always been an internal struggle of motivation for me.
In AA, how do we turn things over to God? We make that decision in Step 3, right, but read on.
Originally Posted by AA BB 1st
Though our decision was a vital and crucial step, it could have little permanent effect unless at once followed by a strenuous effort to face, and to be rid of, the things in ourselves which had been blocking us.
Consider one authority for the medication concerns. Seek an answer, and be patient. No way should you go off meds because of your sponsor's suggestion. But, you can consider what life might be like without them, discuss it with your doctor, take this to a higher power, and see what comes up. Handing things over means handing all things over. This med question included. Just consider it, that's all. Seek an answer, and one will come.
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