Learn2Live

My BF's child did something during her last visit with her father at my home, and I would like your perspective on it. It seems the child, who is 11, wanted her father to stop what he was doing and do what she wanted. She asked him two times "normally," over the course of about an hour, and each time she asked, he explained to her that he could not do it right away, and that she would have to wait. After her two "normal" requests, she became visibly angry that he was not dropping what he was doing to accomodate what she wanted, and started getting nasty, disrespectful, with him. Which is no big deal (other than the fact that it worries me some because she is almost always normally a VERY sweet, considerate child).

The behavior I have a problem with is she decided to stand out in the middle of the road, screaming at him while he was still in the house, until he did what she wanted. We have very clearly and pointedly discussed w the kids that this is a VERY busy and dangerous road the children must not go near. It is the road the house is on but they are instructed not to even enter the car from the street side, only the sidewalk side. I'm not sure how long she stayed out there because I did not find out until well after the fact. But I know it was long enough for her to ignore her brother's trying to reason with her, and her father yelling at her to get out of the road.

I have my own ideas about where she learned this behavior but I wanted to see what others thought about this first. I'm not a parent but I've known many children, and I've never heard of an 11 year old acting this way before. Thank you for any perspective or stories you can provide.

BlueMoon

While an extreme + upsetting story, the child is not yours, you weren't there + you weren't asked for advice . . . IMHO, it's not really your concern.

Learn2Live

Although I understand and appreciate your response, I must disagree and request feedback from others who have some ES&H that may be related. She is a child who is under my care every other weekend, and who stays in my home. While she is here, I am responsible for her and her well-being. This type of behavior is not acceptable to me and I need to communicate this to her. If she cannot or will not agree to these rules, she may not visit at or stay in my home. I will be communicating this boundary to her before she sleeps in my home again. Thanks for your response.

Learn2Live

Thanks Bluemoon. Although I understand and appreciate your response, I must disagree and request feedback from others who have some ES&H that may be related. She is a child who is under my care every other weekend, and who stays in my home. While she is here, I am responsible for her and her well-being. This type of behavior is not acceptable to me and I need to communicate this to her. If she cannot or will not agree to these rules, she may not visit at or stay in my home. I will be communicating this boundary to her before she sleeps in my home again. Thanks for your response.

BlueMoon

Ah! I did not understand that part!

The only ES+H I have is to say I have a g-daughter who was VERY much like that from age 2yo til about 12yo . . . she could go from angel to TERROR in a split second . . .
no advice unfortunately - just that I know it's frustrating + scary -
and I think the boundary is a good idea!

best wishes!
Blue

Learn2Live

Thank you Blue. Did she ever doing anything so drastic? To me, she was threatening him to allow herself to be hit by a bus going 60 MPH, unless he did what she wanted, right away. (I live on a major route, heavy bus traffic, at least every 5 minutes, which the kids both KNOW).

Learn2Live

Oh, and also, forgot to add, he did ask me my advice on how to handle this. I was holding off on that until I had time to think about it, and run it by some peeps. He is a very matter-of-fact person who will just say "Don't ever do that again." I personally have to maintain certain boundaries, as I indicated before. Hope I'm not explaining too much. Thank you again.

TakingCharge999

Hi L2L
I got no experience but this kind of behavior seems extreme and if I was in your place I would consult a child therapist. It is very serious. I would also be worried if any child acted that way(made me remember all the suicide threats F&F go through when in the end they are just manipulation techniques).
Hugs to you.

laurie6781

J M H O

This child has learned whether from both Mommy and Daddy or one or the other, from an early age ........................................ that if she THROWS A TEMPER TANTRUM she will get her way.

I would suggest that you and BF sit down and set up some "House Rules" to be explained to the children, many times if necessary that this how they WILL behave in your home.

I also wonder if she has had any counseling since the divorce.

This is a tricky situation and I sure do not envy you. However, it just be that yu have to go back to the basics.

Your house, your rules.

Love and hugs,

jOSE2

L2L, I had this experience with my now XAH daughters,(especially the youngest )when they were not at my home,they were living with their AM,who left them constantly going out drinking.Of course I didnt realise this until I started to delve a bit deeper into her mother's behaviour. The youngest daughter was rude,lied,started stealing things from my home,took me for granted,had high expectations that other people should drop what they were doing to appease her.

I in the end started to lay bounderies down,which of course she didnt like,she wasnt taught about other peoples bounderies, in the end by the time she was about 19 years old I refused her into my home, sorry to say she is now a drinker herself-(cant say if she's A,thats not my place to state whether she is or not)The other daughter is somewhat the same too.

As I a not with my now XAH ,I do not have him or his family members causing me chaos in my home and life,but I do have sympathy with you,and understand where you are coming from.As They are not your children,for myself, I think being all on the same hymn sheet concerning bouderies, when she comes into/visit your home would be a good thing.

All best wishes, maybe someone else may come along to help you on this topic
Jose2

Thumper

IMO his is the same thing as kicking and screaming in the grocery store for a candy bar.

Since this is very dangerous I would walk out there and physically drag her off the street and she sure as heck would not get what she wanted at the end of it.

I have a hard time with my 10yo too. Last night he threw (literally) a ton of stuff out of his room and beat a hole in his door :sigh: However - he is not going to get his way and get what he was throwing a fit about.

So much about parenting is out smarting and out lasting them - and some kids are very very persistent and determined. My 10yo is to say the least and it sounds like she is too.

Laurie's idea about going over the rules and consequences is a good one. Extremely clear and consistent expectations (and what happens when they are not met) really pay off in the long run. Consistency and routine/schedules are NOT my strong suite. Ugh.

The other thing is my 10yo is not a good problem solver in general and when he gets upset he goes from zero to 60 and explodes - lacking the impuslve control and problem solving skills to find a better way. He also tries to bully me. He thought that huge hissy fit was going to get him out of a consequence. Um no. So, part of what I am trying to do (and he has a counselor) is learn problem sovling skills that are functional. Coping skills that help him calm down.

She clearly had a problem. If she is willing to talk about it to you or her dad, part of the approach could be to teach her what to do instead of having a screaming fit in the street. How do we solve problems, negotiate, get our needs and wants discussed and met. How do we handle our anger and disappointment? She probably doesn't know how. Then, on some minor things - give in if she approaches it correctly. If she gets upset and handles it correctly acknowledge that for her. Easier said then done. I try this and it is hard because he is so oppostional that he just covers his ears and refuses to talk even if I'm paying him a compliment.

Oh, one last thing I have learned. If zI go haywire the problem is no longer theirs. It is the mine. The kids sit back and think "Wow, look at her head spin. She is UPSET. She has a problem. Me? I'm just watching the show." So I try very hard to remain calm. They calm down sooner because they mirror that frustration and upset, and the problem remains theirs, not mine. Not sure if that is going on for yours situation but it is huge for my house so thought I'd share.

Learn2Live

Thank you TC, yes, that was/is my plan, to ask an acquaintance who is a child therapist. I also found it distressing, to say the least. The F&F suicide stories is exactly what I thought of too, I just want to make sure I am not overreacting (I don't think I am but wanted other people's perception to make sure). Thank you again TC, you are very intuitive

XXXXXXXXXX

How long have you been with her father? Is the relationship new? Is he the "A" in your life?

When I first moved in with X, his son (8) was there most of the time. Since X spent alot of this time with alcohol, and his mother spent her time working, I became a surrogate parent pretty quickly.

I found that dss really tried boundries in the beginning. He was jealous of time A and I spent together. He would do insane things for attention, from throwing a rock through the window to flushing $100 down the toilet. It took alot of time for things to get cohesive.

m1k3

L2L, what were the consequences of her action? When my girls were about that age the typical result of behavior similar to that would be you were grounded until you wrote a paper explaining why you thought what you did was wrong. It got them to think about what happened. The paper also had to have correct spelling and grammar appropriate to their grade level. Sometimes we got papers explaining why they thought what they did was not wrong and if the explanation was good enough it was accepted. The paper always was followed with a discussion so everyone had a chance to present their point of view.

Don't know if this helps or not.

Your friend,

dancingnow

L2L I hear your concern and also your desire to maintain boundaries.

When my AH was no longer living with us and confusion still reigned, I finally realized how boundaryless we had lived and were still living, I had to learn how to set boundaries for myself while at the same time teaching my children about setting boundaries and respecting other's boundaries. They didn't want to hear no, they didn't want to wait, they didn't want to recognize that I was a person with wants and needs of my own.

IMO it's so confusing to kids to hear what they're supposed to do and see it done differently from the adults in their lives - A's and non A's.

Only similar story I can relate is when my 14 yo didn't like what I was saying about taking care of some of her responsibilities before she could get together with friends. It ended with her storming away, going to her room, climbing out the window and wandering aimlessly toward who knows where with no shoes and no jacket in freezing weather.

That behavior is not going to get her out of taking care of her responsibilities.

Patiently, I work with my kids, letting them know I hear them and I do my best to be there for them but I won't pay the consequences for inappropriate behavior or choices.

11 years old, deciding to stand in the street to get Dad's attention - well, she did get dad's attention. Perhaps she needs to be gently taught about the consequences that could have occurred by the choice SHE made. Perhaps she also needs more empathy about what she is dealing with as she is only 11.

IMO it helps to teach my kids what are alternative choices to getting what you want and if those choices (asking nicely as she did) don't get you what you want immediately than what can we do - learn more about patience, have more consideration for others, compromise, change expectations. A child can start learning about these things but keep in mind, us grownups, have our own issues and there's no telling how it will work out.

This post makes me a little uncomfortable as I try only to tell of my own experiences and not tell folks what to do but it was the only way I could relate my experience as a mom.

m1k3

One other thing that happened because of the writing. When they were teenagers we often had the big teenage issues, fights, defiance, etc. It wasn't unusual for us to wake up the next morning and find a note shoved under our bedroom door with either an apology and/or an explanation.

wellnowwhat

She asked him two times "normally," over the course of about an hour, and each time she asked, he explained to her that he could not do it right away, and that she would have to wait.

One of my daughters has a poor sense of time, and is incredibly impatient. With her we found out that in our interactions with her it helped if we became more specific and avoided an open-ended "later" type of answer. If we could be more specific and say, "not now, I am in the middle of ....., but ask me again at XX p.m. or in half an hour" she would be much better. And of course, we would try to hold up our end of things.

This worked better in our requests for her as well, e.g. "o.k. Could you please have the table set for dinner by 6:30, we'll eat at 20 to 7". and then let it go.

We also limited how many times we would say things to: "mention once, ask twice, no third: grounding begins". This way she knew we would not keep asking for her to complete the job. The "ask twice" often took the form of "o.k., this is two, please....".

When we were consistent with this, a lot of little battles never became big battles.

As for standing in the road, yikes! I am sure glad she never did that. This same daughter was prone to tantrums, etc. even into teenage years. My response was that I would not deal with her in that frame of mind. When she was over the tantrum (and I mean really over, often the next day), she would be called into the livingroom and we'd talk about what started it, any damage resulting from it, the consequences and a reminder that a tantrum isn't going to change anything. Having said that, I don't know what I would have done other than stop traffic and lead her to a room for a grounding in that case. And then a trip to a doctor and counsellor to be sure that there isn't more at play here.

Parenting isn't for weenies, even if they are not yours, or maybe, especially if they are not yours!

I hope you find solutions that work for you.

jOSE2

Just to add ,

I rang social services about this particular daughter ,.and I was told as she wasnt my kin and that it would be up to her own mother and father to initiate therapy for her, I spoke and ?? suggested therapy for XAh daughter,to her father,he told me there was nothing wrong with her. So for me it was a dead end on that score.So I had to let go of it, though I did continue to consistanly keep to my bounderies with her on visits,I saw this particular daughter a few years ago ,and she told me she used me and my home to get what she wanted.(I was quite taken-a back,but not in the least surprised)

Though this is my Experience,and other peoples experiences with none kin children have worked out wonderful for them.

Jose2

Learn2Live

Thank you Laurie6781, for the ideas and feedback.

I think so too. So, I am not foolish enough to believe that anything I can do or say will reverse or correct this, but I was thinking perhaps there is some basic parenting here, in addition to setting my own boundaries with her, that may help her in the future. I do like your idea about the rules:

I have been doing this with them as "issues" occur (hasn't been often) and had already been planning on having a discussion with them about the way they speak to their father in my home, that is, like dirt. The way I feel about it is, if they want to do that elsewhere, that is their problem, but in my home I expect a certain level of courtesy and respect. I may sound like a prude but that is what it takes for me to be comfortable with them in my home.

Just as an example, they do not ever ask for things from him, they order him to do things they want and he "complies" and gets them whatever they want. From my perspective, I see Enabling, because they are over the age of 10 and are quite capable of doing these things themselves. From his perspective, he does not get to see them very often so he likes to do things for them, which I greatly appreciate and respect. It's just that I don't like to see and hear him being ordered around by children. Any other ideas of things I might talk to them about at the same time would be appreciated, especially since it would help to not just single out her road behavior the other day.

No, neither of them have. It's not so much a lack of child divorce counseling that concerns me, because she has been extremely mature and well-adjusted all through the divorce. She really is a cool kid. Which is part of the reason I want to work on this and try to help her. I don't want to see this turn into what I think it could turn into (ACOA issues). If I can do or say anything to prevent that from happening, I think it is worth the effort.

I agree; I am sure she is not going to like me very much when I explain to her my expectations.

Yep. Took me a LONG time to figure this one out but so true.

Thank you again. I appreciate your responses.

Learn2Live

Wow Jose2, thank you for sharing that. I really needed to hear that other people have gone through this sort of thing too.

Yes, their mother also has a long history of alcohol and drug abuse. Which worries me on many levels.

Wonder where she learned that?

Right, which I hope neither of them gets to.

I know exactly what this means, and am grateful to have had that experience.

It is nice to have someone there who understands.

Not sure what you mean here because you have helped me on this topic; thank you so much!