Harm Reduction
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 29
Harm Reduction
Has anyone heard of the "Harm Reduction" approach to alcohol use? I was just reading about it and never heard of it before. I'm on day 13 by the way.. Here is a quote from I was just reading:
Harm reduction
* Is pragmatic: and accepts that the use of alcohol is a common and enduring feature of human experience. It acknowledges that, while carrying risks, alcohol use provides the drinker with benefits that must be taken into account if responses to drinking are to be effective. Harm reduction recognizes that containment and reduction of alcohol-related harms is a more feasible option than efforts to eliminate alcohol use entirely.
* Prioritizes goals: harm reduction responses to drinking incorporate the notion of a hierarchy of goals, with the immediate focus on proactively engaging individuals, targeting groups, and communities to address their most compelling needs through the provision of accessible and user friendly services. Achieving the most immediate realistic goals is viewed as an essential first step toward risk-free drinking, or, if appropriate, abstinence.
* Has humanist values: the drinker's decision to drink alcohol is accepted as fact. No moral judgment is made either to condemn or to support use of alcohol. The dignity and rights of the drinker are respected, and services endeavor to be "user friendly" in the way they operate. Harm reduction approaches also recognize that, for many, dependent drinking is a long term feature of their lives and that responses to drinking have to accept this.
Harm reduction
* Is pragmatic: and accepts that the use of alcohol is a common and enduring feature of human experience. It acknowledges that, while carrying risks, alcohol use provides the drinker with benefits that must be taken into account if responses to drinking are to be effective. Harm reduction recognizes that containment and reduction of alcohol-related harms is a more feasible option than efforts to eliminate alcohol use entirely.
* Prioritizes goals: harm reduction responses to drinking incorporate the notion of a hierarchy of goals, with the immediate focus on proactively engaging individuals, targeting groups, and communities to address their most compelling needs through the provision of accessible and user friendly services. Achieving the most immediate realistic goals is viewed as an essential first step toward risk-free drinking, or, if appropriate, abstinence.
* Has humanist values: the drinker's decision to drink alcohol is accepted as fact. No moral judgment is made either to condemn or to support use of alcohol. The dignity and rights of the drinker are respected, and services endeavor to be "user friendly" in the way they operate. Harm reduction approaches also recognize that, for many, dependent drinking is a long term feature of their lives and that responses to drinking have to accept this.
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
Unless I read it wrong, it looks like moderation as an approach. BTW I don't drink alcohol. I think that may work for one in a million but only if they do it up front and manage to reduce the consumption. However toying with drinking again for one who already got sober for more than six months or a year is relapse waiting to happen in most cases. I wouldn't dare to test the premise myself. I am either all the way on, or all the way off, no in between. Did I mention I am a non-drinker? 
New to Real Life
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: I come in Peaces
Posts: 2,071
I rubbernecked on the harm reduction ***** group for a couple of days b/c I find it interesting.
I think it really 'feeds the dysfunction'. Placing far more weight on alcohol that is deserved in a healthy life.
I think it really 'feeds the dysfunction'. Placing far more weight on alcohol that is deserved in a healthy life.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,899
I used harm-reduction with the goal of complete sobriety.
I would try to limit how much I drank and for how long I would drink on a single occasion . Increase the abstinence time between drinking until I'm not drinking anymore.
It worked for me one time as I drank less for shorter periods and with greater and greater time between drinking until I did not drink anymore.
I would try to limit how much I drank and for how long I would drink on a single occasion . Increase the abstinence time between drinking until I'm not drinking anymore.
It worked for me one time as I drank less for shorter periods and with greater and greater time between drinking until I did not drink anymore.
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 609
Maybe it is okay for people at an earlier stage of alcohol abuse, or in a 'binge drinking' pattern as is becoming so coming these days among young people, male and female, but not necessarily 'alcoholic'.
Like many things, sounds cool in theory maybe, but I doubt it would have worked in practice for me. If I drink again, I simply would not know the risks and consequences. I'm all for minimizing the damage of a relapse if it occurs, but I don't accept relapses as part of recovery, abstinence is the best and probably the only real viable solution for me.
I'm not talking here about whether or not to go *cold turkey* to withdraw, going cold turkey isn't safe for all and best to discuss your situation with a doctor, having a medically supervised detox if necessary.
Like many things, sounds cool in theory maybe, but I doubt it would have worked in practice for me. If I drink again, I simply would not know the risks and consequences. I'm all for minimizing the damage of a relapse if it occurs, but I don't accept relapses as part of recovery, abstinence is the best and probably the only real viable solution for me.
I'm not talking here about whether or not to go *cold turkey* to withdraw, going cold turkey isn't safe for all and best to discuss your situation with a doctor, having a medically supervised detox if necessary.
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
Might work as a community-based approach to drug and alcohol related problems. I don't see it as an individual solution to alcoholism.
Seems to me, LSZ, you are still thinking that alcohol, in moderation perhaps, will remain part of your life.
Seems to me, LSZ, you are still thinking that alcohol, in moderation perhaps, will remain part of your life.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 29
I guess I am just interested. I have quit for years before. And have drank for years. I am on day 13 now, and really makes me sad to even "think" of the idea that I am NEVER going to have a beer again. I ALWAYS self limited, by having 6 then stopping. (Except on rare occasions) I dunno. Guess I'm really confused. Just read this off one of the Harm Reduction sites:
BABY STEPS MOVE MOUNTAINS
Harm reduction works on the premise that it is easier to get people to make small changes than to get them to make big changes. Because of this it is possible to have a far greater positive impact on society by getting a large number of people to make small positive changes than by getting only a few people to make big changes. It is easier and far more effective to get people to use seat belts than to eliminate the automobile and driving entirely. It is easier and far more effective to get people to have safe sex than to attempt to make people stop having sex entirely. And it is easier and far more effective to teach people how to plan their drinking and drink safely than to try and eliminate recreational intoxication entirely. Prohibition and coerced abstinence do not work. Harm reduction does.
WHY A HARM REDUCTION APPROACH TO ALCOHOL IS NEEDED
Traditional approaches to alcohol problems which are based on AA and the 12 step model are wonderful resources for the people that they work for. However, these abstinence-based 12 step programs have relatively low success rates--it is estimated that anywhere from 60 to 95 percent of clients who enter such programs either drop out or otherwise fail to maintain abstinence from alcohol. Moreover, the NIAAA tells us that only around 7 percent of people who suffer from an Alcohol Use Disorder will seek treatment in any given year.
By way of contrast, simple and sane harm reduction approaches ranging from seatbelts in automobiles to condoms for safe sex save countless lives every day of the week. This is because many people who would never consider giving up activities like driving or sex are willing to take simple steps to make these activities safer. HAMS is a revolutionary new approach to alcohol problems which brings the harm reduction approach to people who drink alcohol. HAMS fills a giant gap left by other programs by offering a realistic and pragmatic program which addresses the needs of people who are either unwilling or able to abstain from alcohol. Harm reduction saves lives when abstinence-only programs fail
BABY STEPS MOVE MOUNTAINS
Harm reduction works on the premise that it is easier to get people to make small changes than to get them to make big changes. Because of this it is possible to have a far greater positive impact on society by getting a large number of people to make small positive changes than by getting only a few people to make big changes. It is easier and far more effective to get people to use seat belts than to eliminate the automobile and driving entirely. It is easier and far more effective to get people to have safe sex than to attempt to make people stop having sex entirely. And it is easier and far more effective to teach people how to plan their drinking and drink safely than to try and eliminate recreational intoxication entirely. Prohibition and coerced abstinence do not work. Harm reduction does.
WHY A HARM REDUCTION APPROACH TO ALCOHOL IS NEEDED
Traditional approaches to alcohol problems which are based on AA and the 12 step model are wonderful resources for the people that they work for. However, these abstinence-based 12 step programs have relatively low success rates--it is estimated that anywhere from 60 to 95 percent of clients who enter such programs either drop out or otherwise fail to maintain abstinence from alcohol. Moreover, the NIAAA tells us that only around 7 percent of people who suffer from an Alcohol Use Disorder will seek treatment in any given year.
By way of contrast, simple and sane harm reduction approaches ranging from seatbelts in automobiles to condoms for safe sex save countless lives every day of the week. This is because many people who would never consider giving up activities like driving or sex are willing to take simple steps to make these activities safer. HAMS is a revolutionary new approach to alcohol problems which brings the harm reduction approach to people who drink alcohol. HAMS fills a giant gap left by other programs by offering a realistic and pragmatic program which addresses the needs of people who are either unwilling or able to abstain from alcohol. Harm reduction saves lives when abstinence-only programs fail
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by doggonecarl 
Might work as a community-based approach to drug and alcohol related problems. I don't see it as an individual solution to alcoholism.
Seems to me, LSZ, you are still thinking that alcohol, in moderation perhaps, will remain part of your life.
Seems to me, LSZ, you are still thinking that alcohol, in moderation perhaps, will remain part of your life.
I guess I am feeling like a descision today to NEVER have a beer again, something I truly love to have, is too much for me. And that if I can say have just a 6 pack every Friday night or something it solves alot of my problems. One, it is a healthy, frankly massive, reduction in my beer intake. And secondly, I could "look forward" to it during the week, which is part of what has really had me down these past two weeks of not drinking beer.
I guess my question to anyone willingto answer is, if I were to successfully stick to such a regiment, NEVER drinking during the week, drinking Friday or Saturday night or Both, permanently. (And never go beyond that) Is that a problem? If it is , then why is it a problem?
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,380
I used to drink on just Friday and Saturday nights in the beginning too. Unfortunately I'd proceed to drink more than most people would in a week.
I thought a 6 pack both nights would be a reasonable goal too (even tho that was, even back then, over recommended moderate levels).
I never seemed to manage to stick to that tho.
Let me hit you with another question LSZ - and I mean no disrespect - but you first signed up here in 2009.
That suggests a long struggle to me.
You've tried to institute some control in the last year at least - I've read your posts.
If you could maintain this regimen, why haven't you done that so far?
D
I thought a 6 pack both nights would be a reasonable goal too (even tho that was, even back then, over recommended moderate levels).
I never seemed to manage to stick to that tho.
Let me hit you with another question LSZ - and I mean no disrespect - but you first signed up here in 2009.
That suggests a long struggle to me.
You've tried to institute some control in the last year at least - I've read your posts.
If you could maintain this regimen, why haven't you done that so far?
D
Last edited by Dee74; 12-08-2011 at 12:50 PM. Reason: typo
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
Originally Posted by LSZ
I guess my question to anyone willingto answer is, if I were to successfully stick to such a regiment, NEVER drinking during the week, drinking Friday or Saturday night or Both, permanently. (And never go beyond that) Is that a problem? If it is , then why is it a problem?
But I wouldn't bet on it. Despite your stretches of abstinence, I think the pattern of your most recent drinking tells me how your drinking has progressed. In a post back in October you said you drank 6 to 8 beers a night and more on weekends. That's where the bar is set, LSZ. Not at twice a week. But hey, if you can get that monster back in the box and drink moderately, more power to you. I couldn't.
I was a daily drinker; drank for over 30 years. But I'm free now. Free of worrying when I will be able to drink, wondering how much I will drink, free of having to ensure I always had enough to drink. Free of alcohol. I can't tell you how much that is a blessing to me.
I hope I haven't come off as too harsh. This is a Sober Recovery site. Not a Harm Reduction site. Not a do-you-think-I-can-drink-moderately? site. We promote sobriety because that is the solution that worked for us. I can give advice for what worked for me. I will support what works to keep you sober. I won't tell you I think moderation will work for you. But you are free to try that experiment yourself.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,146
Worth giving it a try if you feel the need to, LSZ.
I tried the harm reduction approach to limit the damage I did and the amounts I drank for many years, and I can modestly claim to be far ahead of the crowd that now is proposing the same. Often I would succeed in only having to get out of bed to puke twice instead of 4x like the night before, and amazingly I acheived 100% on not wrecking the car every single night after I wrecked the car. I experienced many solid successes with my harm reduction program.
Better is better, as they say. The problem with better is that you may find it as I did to not be good enough.
Harm Reduction was begun by and for those who wanted to drink more than the drinking guidelines set forth by Moderation Management. These are people who get very drunk often but want to feel they are doing something about their problem. If they have someone in their lives demanding they shape up the drunk can claim they are following a program to get better, without changing their drinking patterns at all.
Goals are set and not met and that's ok, because trying is better than not trying, and goal adjustment to fit any week's drinking requirements is always an option.
You might consider joining their ***** forum for a while and read how it's going for people and decide if you want the same for yourself. You'll find people extremely relieved they found a 'program' that allows them to drink as much as they want to drink. And if they can stay out of the hospital or jail most months then it's better.
Yay for better.
I tried the harm reduction approach to limit the damage I did and the amounts I drank for many years, and I can modestly claim to be far ahead of the crowd that now is proposing the same. Often I would succeed in only having to get out of bed to puke twice instead of 4x like the night before, and amazingly I acheived 100% on not wrecking the car every single night after I wrecked the car. I experienced many solid successes with my harm reduction program.
Better is better, as they say. The problem with better is that you may find it as I did to not be good enough.
Harm Reduction was begun by and for those who wanted to drink more than the drinking guidelines set forth by Moderation Management. These are people who get very drunk often but want to feel they are doing something about their problem. If they have someone in their lives demanding they shape up the drunk can claim they are following a program to get better, without changing their drinking patterns at all.
Goals are set and not met and that's ok, because trying is better than not trying, and goal adjustment to fit any week's drinking requirements is always an option.
You might consider joining their ***** forum for a while and read how it's going for people and decide if you want the same for yourself. You'll find people extremely relieved they found a 'program' that allows them to drink as much as they want to drink. And if they can stay out of the hospital or jail most months then it's better.
Yay for better.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,476
Originally Posted by Dee74
You've to institute some control in the last year at least - I've read your posts.
If you could maintain this regimen, why haven't you done that so far?
If you could maintain this regimen, why haven't you done that so far?
If I were to try to maintain drinking on weekends only, my mind would begin obsessing immediately and my brain-power would be spent thinking about drinking on the weekend. I will never go that route again.
By the way, my large city has a Harm Reduction program for both drugs and alcohol. As a Community based program, it is fantastic. It helps to keep addicts as safe as possible. It also helps to prevent crime and keeps needles and paraphenalia out of the neighborhoods. There is a Needle-Exchange program as well. The hope, of course, is that the addicts will make a decision to live a sober life.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Singapore
Posts: 737
Harm Reduction, Moderation Management, hell any method that promotes moderating my drinking would be a completely torturous way to try and live, for me anyway. When I drink it happens until I'm out cold, and even passed out loaded I would be dreaming about the drink that's waiting for me once I wake up.
I think that someone who admits they need a management program to help them moderate a substance is a person already beyond the need for such experiments. Lending a conscious effort to something, i.e. giving it so much added attention in order to keep it under control, that tells me that the substance in question has already proven to have a person out of control. A bit redundant to keep wishing I could dance along the edge of a cliff I've already fallen from. Just MHO.
I think that someone who admits they need a management program to help them moderate a substance is a person already beyond the need for such experiments. Lending a conscious effort to something, i.e. giving it so much added attention in order to keep it under control, that tells me that the substance in question has already proven to have a person out of control. A bit redundant to keep wishing I could dance along the edge of a cliff I've already fallen from. Just MHO.
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,476
Ontario Harm Reduction Distribution Program
OHRDP provides harm reduction materials for people who use injection drugs including cookers, alcohol swabs, tourniquets, acidifier, sterile water and filters. Studies show that the sharing of drug preparation equipment is a vector for the transmission of blood borne pathogens including HIV and hepatitis C. The distribution of sterile, single use equipment, is used as an intervention to decrease the transmission of disease and risk taking behaviours, and increase positive health outcomes. OHRDP offers education, learning opportunities, knowledge transfer, current literature and evidence based research to support the people working tirelessly in the field to make a difference, to stop the spread of disease, and to increase the quality of life for those living with substance use challenges.
OHRDP provides harm reduction materials for people who use injection drugs including cookers, alcohol swabs, tourniquets, acidifier, sterile water and filters. Studies show that the sharing of drug preparation equipment is a vector for the transmission of blood borne pathogens including HIV and hepatitis C. The distribution of sterile, single use equipment, is used as an intervention to decrease the transmission of disease and risk taking behaviours, and increase positive health outcomes. OHRDP offers education, learning opportunities, knowledge transfer, current literature and evidence based research to support the people working tirelessly in the field to make a difference, to stop the spread of disease, and to increase the quality of life for those living with substance use challenges.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by gaffo
I prefer the simplicity of abstinence. It is terrifying to contemplate but it is the ultimate response to that evil AV monkey in my head.
My main desire is excelerated weight loss. My body already feels different in 14 days.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
May be you're not an alcoholic LSZ, although some of what you've said in this thread contradicts what you said here in the past. It's for you to decide.
May be this will help.
Twenty Questions of AA That helped decide I was alcoholic Help for Alcoholics alcoholism addiction treatment and recovery
May be this will help.
Twenty Questions of AA That helped decide I was alcoholic Help for Alcoholics alcoholism addiction treatment and recovery
Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,701
If you really want to try moderation or harm reduction, why have 6 beers a day? It sounds like you are just going till your reach your capacity. It sounds like you are drinking as much as you can handle and then claiming it is a "limit."
Harm Reduction is not a bad idea. It might be a good place to start--so why not limit yourself to the amount a non-alcoholic would drink (one or two). If that that is too much, why not try three?
Harm Reduction is not a bad idea. It might be a good place to start--so why not limit yourself to the amount a non-alcoholic would drink (one or two). If that that is too much, why not try three?
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