I Find the Subject of "Families" Confusing
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,068
I Find the Subject of "Families" Confusing
I am a mom and grandma (amongst other things). I am very confused about the "role" (for lack of better word) of families in one's life.
I always thought families were groups of people who came together, bonded together and had things in common.
As a mom, I thought it was my job to help my kids survive. Same thing with the grandkid (whom I was a surrogate parent to) . . .
I did not expect that you could raise children who would have basic core values different from your own.
The entire point of childrearing is to "train" your children in the art of survival and to indoctrinate them along the lines of your values.
If you are a "good parent," then you have basic common sense and don't train your kids to drink Driano or a bottle of vodka in one serving.
How the kids can then "follow their own paths" and do crazy, unproductive, self-destructive things is puzzling at best and crazymaking at worst.
I believe "we are all on our own paths," but as I said, I am a mom and grandma and thought I could instill basic values that would serve my children, into their lives.
What I have concluded is that the kids might as well have been raised by wolves . . .the parenting served no useful purpose.
And I have NO IDEA what the point of a family might be.
I always thought families were groups of people who came together, bonded together and had things in common.
As a mom, I thought it was my job to help my kids survive. Same thing with the grandkid (whom I was a surrogate parent to) . . .
I did not expect that you could raise children who would have basic core values different from your own.
The entire point of childrearing is to "train" your children in the art of survival and to indoctrinate them along the lines of your values.
If you are a "good parent," then you have basic common sense and don't train your kids to drink Driano or a bottle of vodka in one serving.
How the kids can then "follow their own paths" and do crazy, unproductive, self-destructive things is puzzling at best and crazymaking at worst.
I believe "we are all on our own paths," but as I said, I am a mom and grandma and thought I could instill basic values that would serve my children, into their lives.
What I have concluded is that the kids might as well have been raised by wolves . . .the parenting served no useful purpose.
And I have NO IDEA what the point of a family might be.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Well, we all have expectations of how things *should* be. Sometimes, our expectations are met, sometimes they aren't. Life's funny that way. I have found that how I react to my expectations not being met makes all the difference in my life.
L
L
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia MO
Posts: 1,127
IMO the difference is outside influences, I am 49 and when we were growing up there were 4 TV channes and AM radio, you not only had your parents looking over your shoulder, but every other mom in the neighborhood and the beat cop who knew everybody.
A teachers word was law and you got paddled for acting up, and if you got paddled at school you got the belt at home.
You did not sit on the couch after school and play games on the gameboy by yourself, you played outside with friends, real friends, not facebook friends.
We went to church and bible school on Sunday and behaved appropriately.
I won't say it was better, because some parents went overboard, but it was certainly more structured.
Now kids have 300 channels on tv and they think the Kardashians and the idiots on Jersey Shore are the people to emulate.
All you can do is keep the faith, teach critical lessons everyday, and hope hope hope some of it sticks with them.
Stepping down off my soapbox now.
Bill
A teachers word was law and you got paddled for acting up, and if you got paddled at school you got the belt at home.
You did not sit on the couch after school and play games on the gameboy by yourself, you played outside with friends, real friends, not facebook friends.
We went to church and bible school on Sunday and behaved appropriately.
I won't say it was better, because some parents went overboard, but it was certainly more structured.
Now kids have 300 channels on tv and they think the Kardashians and the idiots on Jersey Shore are the people to emulate.
All you can do is keep the faith, teach critical lessons everyday, and hope hope hope some of it sticks with them.
Stepping down off my soapbox now.
Bill
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Litchfield Park, AZ
Posts: 317
Originally Posted by seek 
The entire point of childrearing is to "train" your children in the art of survival and to indoctrinate them along the lines of your values.
I'm a father and a grandfather. I'm not going to claim to be a great father, even though I have a "Worlds Greatest Dad" talking Father's Day card on top of my computer that says I am.
I guess I always saw kids more like "little people," than like lumps of clay to be molded and manipulated. Heck, if anything, they manipulated me more than I manipulated them.
Right out of the womb, they have their own personalities. The same genetic material, but sisters who couldn't be more different. One who walked a year before she talked, one who talked (in complete sentences) months before she walked. (The early talker turned out to be the athletic one).
And then there's my granddaughter, who changes and grows between every visit. She completely ignored me for the first three years of her life, but now she's delighted to see me!
I'm sure there are all kinds of people out there who would rather get the exact things they asked for on their Christmas list...but I kind of like being surprised by what's in the package.
As a result of my experiences with alcoholism, I truly believe that I am powerless over other people, including my children. Especially my children. But the thing is...I think that makes the world a more interesting place. Even if sometimes that means the things that they do terrify you.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 338
“We are responsible for the process we use in parenting, not the outcome. Our children have free will and can choose their own paths, even destructive ones. We can guide but we can’t control. Sometimes all we can do is pray”
I love this quote and don't even remember where I got it from. I hope it gives you some hope that as a parent you did the best you could to instill your values into their lives. Darn that free will that allows them to choose a path-even one that leads them away from how they were raised. But deep down inside I think they all want to eventually head home and know they are loved.
I love this quote and don't even remember where I got it from. I hope it gives you some hope that as a parent you did the best you could to instill your values into their lives. Darn that free will that allows them to choose a path-even one that leads them away from how they were raised. But deep down inside I think they all want to eventually head home and know they are loved.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
This is a very interesting thread and a lot to ponder as I consider myself and DS. DS is 7, so much younger than your grandson, Seek. Though it’s going so fast; sometimes I think I’ll blink and he’ll be grown up…
I personally see my role of parent as being something of a guide. I’m here to shelter and love DS as he explores the world and his place in it. I try to encourage his honesty, curiosity and compassion, and point out interesting stuff to check out and, often, he’ll lead me to interesting stuff to explore. This world is an amazing, beautiful mystery / adventure / travel if we let it be. DS is his own person, with his own wants, needs and desires; his path could take him some where new and amazing, or it could lead him to something familiar.
I try to teach him skills and information that I hope will help him make good choices. I try to keep him safe and teach him what he needs to know to be safe, or to know when risks are … not acceptable, because risk isn’t necessarily a bad thing … but, I don’t know… calculated, worthwhile, hmmm. I’m also trying very hard to be aware of when my sheltering needs to take a step back, because that role will change (has changed) as he gets older.
Of course, I’m saying this long before he becomes a teenager and his decisions start having the potential to seriously limit his course through life. . . Will I feel the same if he decides that high school is not for him and wants to drop out? Or shows signs of becoming an alcoholic like his father? Maybe, because part of being a guide is trying to keep the path in sight, or at least the general idea of a destination, and offering tools needed to get there.
Family. That’s another topic. And alcoholism changes the dynamics so much. My Family is everything I think a family should be: loving, caring, supportive, sheltering, able to gently encourage each other to be the best we can be. XAH’s family on the other hand confuses me. “You’ll always be family, TheUncertainty. What’s your phone number? And address?” (When neither has changed in years…) We lived (live) in the same city as them and, while still married to XAH, I saw my sister who lives 2000+ miles away more often than I saw XSIL. That’s not family to me; but it’s how their family operates. *shrug*
Thanks for letting me think onscreen.
I personally see my role of parent as being something of a guide. I’m here to shelter and love DS as he explores the world and his place in it. I try to encourage his honesty, curiosity and compassion, and point out interesting stuff to check out and, often, he’ll lead me to interesting stuff to explore. This world is an amazing, beautiful mystery / adventure / travel if we let it be. DS is his own person, with his own wants, needs and desires; his path could take him some where new and amazing, or it could lead him to something familiar.
I try to teach him skills and information that I hope will help him make good choices. I try to keep him safe and teach him what he needs to know to be safe, or to know when risks are … not acceptable, because risk isn’t necessarily a bad thing … but, I don’t know… calculated, worthwhile, hmmm. I’m also trying very hard to be aware of when my sheltering needs to take a step back, because that role will change (has changed) as he gets older.
Of course, I’m saying this long before he becomes a teenager and his decisions start having the potential to seriously limit his course through life. . . Will I feel the same if he decides that high school is not for him and wants to drop out? Or shows signs of becoming an alcoholic like his father? Maybe, because part of being a guide is trying to keep the path in sight, or at least the general idea of a destination, and offering tools needed to get there.
Family. That’s another topic. And alcoholism changes the dynamics so much. My Family is everything I think a family should be: loving, caring, supportive, sheltering, able to gently encourage each other to be the best we can be. XAH’s family on the other hand confuses me. “You’ll always be family, TheUncertainty. What’s your phone number? And address?” (When neither has changed in years…) We lived (live) in the same city as them and, while still married to XAH, I saw my sister who lives 2000+ miles away more often than I saw XSIL. That’s not family to me; but it’s how their family operates. *shrug*
Thanks for letting me think onscreen.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
I like this:
On Children
Kahlil Gibran
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.
On Children
Kahlil Gibran
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Long Branch, NJ
Posts: 253
Originally Posted by Pelican
I like this:
On Children
Kahlil Gibran
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.
On Children
Kahlil Gibran
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts,
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them,
but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children
as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might
that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer's hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.
Beat me to it. I have this saved, and as I started reading this thread I was thinking I should post it. So I quoted you instead. It bears repeating.
To thine own self be true.
Join Date: May 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 5,924
The concept of families is not really that complicated. Families are a social construct that provides for biological reproduction; feeding, clothing, and sheltering children; teaching survival and social skills; and introducing and eventually "releasing" the children into adulthood and the world. Families also function to provide members of society with companionship and support.
It's really very simple. It's the way you THINK about them that causes your "confusion." I don't think you are confused at all.
You're making a value statement about your grandson. You are judging him. Because he is not doing it YOUR way, he is an animal. You are not better than he is.
It's really very simple. It's the way you THINK about them that causes your "confusion." I don't think you are confused at all.
What I have concluded is that the kids might as well have been raised by wolves . . .the parenting served no useful purpose.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,068
I don't appreciate the nasty attacks . . .No, of course I am not better than my grandson or anyone. I see the divinity in all of us - you made a judgment about me.
Families as a social construct is not helpful to me, but thanks for sharing.
Families as a social construct is not helpful to me, but thanks for sharing.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Aren't all judgments value judgments? Best to not judge at all in my opinion and accept reality for what it is. Easier said than done of course.
Her grandson is her grandson, no more, no less.
Seek, I think I remember you saying something about Buddhism, is this true?
Her grandson is her grandson, no more, no less.
Seek, I think I remember you saying something about Buddhism, is this true?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,068
I do value the Gibran sentiment . . .in practice, it can be difficult to hold that idea as you are dealing with the mundane.
My family has come together through this crisis so that is a good thing. There are other gifts that I believe are yet to be realized.
I am holding the intention for great healing and spiritual emergence - everyone sees families differently - despite what one poster said, I am "confused" about the notion - I think I get to decide that for myself - kind of "co-dependent," now that I think of it for someone else to tell me what I think or how I feel . . .and not helpful.
My family has come together through this crisis so that is a good thing. There are other gifts that I believe are yet to be realized.
I am holding the intention for great healing and spiritual emergence - everyone sees families differently - despite what one poster said, I am "confused" about the notion - I think I get to decide that for myself - kind of "co-dependent," now that I think of it for someone else to tell me what I think or how I feel . . .and not helpful.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by Learn2Live
The concept of families is not really that complicated. Families are a social construct that provides for biological reproduction; feeding, clothing, and sheltering children; teaching survival and social skills; and introducing and eventually "releasing" the children into adulthood and the world. Families also function to provide members of society with companionship and support.
It's really very simple. It's the way you THINK about them that causes your "confusion." I don't think you are confused at all.
You're making a value statement about your grandson. You are judging him. Because he is not doing it YOUR way, he is an animal. You are not better than he is.
It's really very simple. It's the way you THINK about them that causes your "confusion." I don't think you are confused at all.
You're making a value statement about your grandson. You are judging him. Because he is not doing it YOUR way, he is an animal. You are not better than he is.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
What I have in mind is that your attachment to finding a resolution to this crisis is the cause of your suffering. Letting go of the attachment does not mean that you give up caring or compassion or that you shut your self out of the family. It simply means that you acknowledge that you do not have control over what is going to happen and how the others will react and that it is not your responsibility. It means allowing events unfold as they will at their own pace, which to be honest, they will anyway. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen.
It also means that you can focus of nurturing your spirit so that you can ease your suffering and by example ease the suffering of others in the family.
I hope this makes sense and is of some use.
Your friend,
It also means that you can focus of nurturing your spirit so that you can ease your suffering and by example ease the suffering of others in the family.
I hope this makes sense and is of some use.
Your friend,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by Chino
Your family just came through a crisis. What does that mean to you?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212
I don't have children, myself, but was a child 
and I agree that families ARE confusing. Perhaps the most confusing thing we are faced with in life. Suffice it to say that any preconceived notions of what a family 'should' be will only serve to nurture this confusion. All we can hope for is that our parents and siblings do their best by us, and we in turn do our best by them and our children.
and I agree that families ARE confusing. Perhaps the most confusing thing we are faced with in life. Suffice it to say that any preconceived notions of what a family 'should' be will only serve to nurture this confusion. All we can hope for is that our parents and siblings do their best by us, and we in turn do our best by them and our children.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
