The "Sober Saint"

Old 12-04-2011, 11:11 AM
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The "Sober Saint"

It took my ex months of treating me like an emotional punching bag, kicking me out of the house, my moving across the state and a particularly intense fight calling me every name in the book...for him to stop drinking.

Granted, I'm not perfect...but his life spun out of control.

Now I've been living for several months in a new city with a new job. We have stayed in touch but its been very rocky.

After the last major blow-up, I cut contact. He announced he was joining AA and within a few weeks his messages/emails/texts sounded like they were from a completely different person.

I agreed to visit with him recently and was there when he picked up his 30-day sober "coin" (chip?). I explained to him BEFORE this visit that due to the emotional damage I have sustained...I need us to go very, VERY slow. Our lives are very different now...baby steps please. He agreed.

During the visit we had a wonderful time but he still had episodes of intense insecurity. Still, he looks great and in general, managed daily stressors in a much more positive way.

Now I'm back in my city. We agreed to visit again over Christmas. However, not but DAYS back...he is pushing me on moving back in with him, getting MARRIED and having KIDS.

I became completely enraged...and lost it. 30 days sober and he wants to talk about MARRIAGE!!?? He accused me of being an angry person...unstable...rude...selfish.

From a raging drunk, he now talks about "faith, hope and love"..."seeing the light"...and "peace." I feel like he's in a "honeymoon" phase of recovery...the "sober saint." I feel like he had an epiphany, "woke up"...got his life together...and now expects me to just act like everything is fine and we need to pick up where we left off.

I am DEEPLY damaged from our relationship. However, I still care for him...he was my best friend. I don't want to push him away but I feel that he is not respecting my need to heal. I have told him this...he doesn't want to hear it.

Anyone else have experience with this? What happens after 30 days? Anything I should expect? Am I being selfish???
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:17 AM
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What was that thing about no sudden changes?
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:24 AM
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HUGE red flags!!! He is more interested in getting back with you than he is about sobriety. If it were me....time to go no contact.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:30 AM
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Sigh...

Can I first say, it feels *wonderful* to get some feedback on this...

Maybe spending time IS sending the wrong message. I suppose I AM being selfish on that end...I truly enjoy the time when I feel like I have my best friend back. Its great to laugh and joke again!

But yes, when he went in to talk about marriage on the phone yesterday...all the bells in my head went off.

I don't want to be the reason that he throws up his hands and says, "Well, this isn't worth it! We have no future, where's my bottle!"

Of course, I know I can't control this...

But what is a healthy and compassionate way of setting these boundaries and understandings? How can I say this?

Truth is, I don't enjoy where I am and what I'm doing right now. I largely ran away to this place because I am in so much pain. That's embarrassing to say...but its true. So, it's hard to just bask in my present enjoyment...because this move was a sorry excuse for a solution....

Thanks everyone!
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:38 AM
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It's your life and you are, of course, free to do whatever you want, but...where you are and what you are doing is a million times better than marrying and having children with an alcoholic. He is nowhere near ready to even consider those things. He needs AT LEAST a year of good solid recovery under his belt before he should even begin to think of those things. And you should demand AT LEAST that much and probably more since you already know what life is like with him when he drinks.

Spend this time working on your own issues. Make improvements in your own situation, which is really the only thing you have any control over anyway. If you are happy with your life, what he offers, along with what you already know, won't look so attractive. No one can make us happy except ourselves.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RedCandle View Post
Sigh...

Can I first say, it feels *wonderful* to get some feedback on this...

Maybe spending time IS sending the wrong message. I suppose I AM being selfish on that end...I truly enjoy the time when I feel like I have my best friend back. Its great to laugh and joke again!

But yes, when he went in to talk about marriage on the phone yesterday...all the bells in my head went off.

I don't want to be the reason that he throws up his hands and says, "Well, this isn't worth it! We have no future, where's my bottle!"

Of course, I know I can't control this...

But what is a healthy and compassionate way of setting these boundaries and understandings? How can I say this?

Truth is, I don't enjoy where I am and what I'm doing right now. I largely ran away to this place because I am in so much pain. That's embarrassing to say...but its true. So, it's hard to just bask in my present enjoyment...because this move was a sorry excuse for a solution....

Thanks everyone!
If the bolded was really his reason for drinking again, then that shows where his priorities lie. HE is responsible for his sobriety, and nothing you do should be blamed for it if he falls.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:47 AM
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Thanks Suki...

I suppose I was just so thrilled when he announced he was going to AA that maybe I'm partially to blame for getting hopes up. Honestly, I never thought he'd go a day without a drink and in a million years...I never thought I'd see him go 30 days...

I genuinely miss my best friend but I will follow your advice. Thank you.

You know what is so terrible? (and this...I just need to vent...) When he launches into talking about our "future"...and I start to feel my blood boil...I often wish there was something I could do or say that would (if even for a moment) make him feel the pain that he caused me. Sometimes I think that if he could feel that feeling...he would understand why I don't want to blissfully dream about the future. Just typing that makes me feel like a monster. Who in their sane mind wants others to feel pain?! I don't want to hurt anyone...but I don't think I'm doing a good job managing this....
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by HopefulWifeHere View Post
If the bolded was really his reason for drinking again, then that shows where his priorities lie. HE is responsible for his sobriety, and nothing you do should be blamed for it if he falls.
Yes...you're absolutely right. I made this point to him, "You can't blame me for any relapses" and he stated that he doesn't need my help to stay sober...that's his job.

It's really a terrible thing. I care and I want to help...but I know that help can also hurt. I'm trying to learn where that line is...and I genuinely appreciate the advice.

Are there any phrases/words/conversations that one should AVOID during this time period? Are their healthy conversations to have?
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by RedCandle View Post
But what is a healthy and compassionate way of setting these boundaries and understandings? How can I say this?
How about "I am not ready to talk about marriage now. I would like to date for awhile and see how things go."

That seems very honest and gentle to me. How you follow up on that depends on how he responds. If he starts in with more blaming, accusations, manipulations, guilt trips, poor me type of stuff he is probably not ready for a relationship IMO.

I used to confuse compassionate with giving in. Being compassionate does not mean that I cave on my needs/boundaries. Being compassionate does not mean that I give someone else what they want even if it is not what I want.

I have actually tried to take that word out of my thinking. When I am 'compassionate' I very much want to fix someone else. I want to do whatever is necessary to make them feel better and my boundaries come tumbling down. Now I use words like tender and gentle. I can be true to myself and keep my boundaries strong, yet be gentle and tender in my message. It took a lot of work for me to get to this place. I have to take time to process and think things through before hand (so I've learned to say I need to talk about this later). I need that processing time to sort it all out otherwise their discomfort/suffering very much becomes my own and I get desperate to fix it. Their discomfort is not mine. I do not need to fix it. Short gentle messages is what I stick to. Sometimes I even rehearse them.
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:22 PM
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If you do not go NO CONTACT, and the 'subject' of 'marriage' and 'your future together' does come up.

A simple answer:

"Since we are both working on OURSELVES, this subject needs to be put ton the shelf for at least a year."

Then change the subject completely. Repeat the above when he tries to go back to it and he will, lol Become a broken record.

Easier just to go NO CONTACT. That gives him ALL the space to work on HIMSELF.

J M H O

Love and hugs,
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:17 PM
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Can you explain to me how "no contact" is defined? Is it 100% silent treatment, no response to anything??

I try to treat people as I would want to be treated and I think I'd be pretty hurt if I got the "silent treatment"...

What are the parameters?

I want to be supportive of his recovery...but no, I don't want him to take that support the wrong way..
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RedCandle View Post
What happens after 30 days? Anything I should expect? Am I being selfish???
After 30 days it's easy to mistake "no longer perpetually shooting myself in the foot" for sobriety. AA recommends that people not make major changes or get involved in a new relationship for the first year. The reason for this is that it takes up to 18 months for the brain to recover from the damage drinking has caused, and romatic relationships are a distraction from the hard work it takes to get and stay sober. As a practical matter, many do re-engage in romantic relationships in early sobriety, not always with horrible outcomes, but the odds are against success. My advice would be to keep separate living arrangements for the first year, and be very clear that he is in early sobriety - he is far from sober. If he values his sobriety he will make that his priority for the next few months.

As for marriage - that's in the category of delusional thinking at this stage of the game.
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:39 PM
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Eddie...wow...18 months...I did not know that!

Are there resources where I can read up on this? I know there are al anon groups...but I'm not sure I'm ready for that. Any good reading I can do on relationships and recovery?
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Old 12-04-2011, 03:55 PM
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I became a broken record when I separated from my now XAH. "If you're still sober and I'm still single in a couple years, then we'll talk." Over and over and over. I don't think I believed it myself at first, but after saying it a couple (hundred) times, it sunk in.

He had no clue how hurt I was ... and ours was not an abusive marriage. I also repeated that I needed time and space. Time and space. And to please leave me alone.

We've been separated for 2 years, and the divorce was final a year ago yesterday. I have no desire to get back together with him, and now that there's distance and time, I can see that even though he was my best friend, there's no way in hell I'm going through that again.

Be gentle with yourself and I agree - he's just in the honeymoon of early sobriety. More time needed!
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by RedCandle View Post
Eddie...wow...18 months...I did not know that!

Are there resources where I can read up on this? I know there are al anon groups...but I'm not sure I'm ready for that. Any good reading I can do on relationships and recovery?
A great book that I picked up right after rehab is Under the Influence by Milam - it's a little dated (originally came out in the 80's) but it covers the physiology of addiction and recovery. It opened my eyes, and helped me understand that what I was experiencing was normal and part of the healing process. And the hard part was thinking "18 months!? are you kidding me!" but the truth is that the healing is quickest in early sobriety and trails off. By 6-9 months you are pretty much back but your circuitry and the neurochemistry takes time to get back, and it's not something you notice on a day to day basis but for sure you can look back over the course of months and see changes in mental acuity, rentention of information, etc. UIT closes with a lot on diet and how that affects ones recovery - I personally am a little skeptical of that but I unreservedly recommend the book. It costs $8 new in paperback - worth every penny imo.
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:09 PM
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Thanks Eddie...I'll look for it.

When he confronts me about the immediate future, marriage, etc....do you have any specific advice about how I can diffuse or what I need to say?

Someone on here mentioned "no contact"...but I'm not sure what that means.

I find myself blowing up with frustration. What's the best way to deal?
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:13 PM
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Hi Red!

My live-in boyfriend of 10 years' alcoholism began spiraling out of control about 18 months ago. Just at 6 months ago, he moved out of state, got sober, and we stayed in touch. Right when he was about 45 days sober, he also started talking about 'moving back home'.

I panicked on the inside. I knew neither of us was ready. But I also knew it wasn't my job to tell him he wasn't ready. His sobriety is up to him.

So, when I talked to him, I said, "As much as I'd love for us to be reunited, I feel I have a lot of resentments and things to work out on my end before we can talk about something like that. Please try to be patient with me."

And he seemed to accept that pretty well. It's the truth, after all.

I'm still working on my end, and he on his. He tried to go 'no contact' with me at first, but he broke no contact within a week. I've never asked for no contact with him, but I have set boundaries. I will not accept phone calls from anyone after 9 p.m. (the drunk hour for some reason in my life), and no one drinks in my home. If RABF were to relapse, I'd have other boundaries, too.

I wish you well!!
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:08 AM
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No contact is exactly what it sounds like. No talking, no interaction. The ultimate in "space."

It gives one a break from the constant quacking and pleading of the A.
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:02 PM
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Well, if you feel you must define No Contact, then ask yourself what would really help you...perhaps you would feel comfortable telling him that you do not want any contact for X number of months (6,9,12?) and that afterwards, he can call you and then you can consider whether you want to speak with him again. Give yourself some time and space...there's no harm in it. If you two are "meant to be", then it'll happen.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:03 PM
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Dear Redcandle, so sorry for all you are going through, but I am really glad you got yourself out of the situation at least "physically".

Are you in therapy, if not please consider it, also something that really helped me recently was to write down all the injuries you received (mental and physical), I felt like I got all the poison out of my system.

Please consider al-anon, it will give you a safe place to share with people who have been in the same situations.

Best of luck to you,

Bill
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