Trouble with Intimate Relationships - Newcomer
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Trouble with Intimate Relationships - Newcomer
I'm new to these forums, but what a relief to find a community of adult children of alcoholics! I went to a few Al-Anon meetings when I was a teenager, but it was against the will of both of my parents, so I didn't last long there. I'm in individual therapy, but have never done group therapy.
I'm an adult daughter of an alcoholic father and I'm in my late 20s. I've had two serious romantic relationships in my life - the first one ending with the man cheating on me, the second one ending because of what I think are counterdependent/love avoider issues on his part. However, I also think that I'm a co-dependent/love addict. I believe the most recent relationship ended because he was afraid that I would leave him first (but duh...you can't find a more loyal person than a child of an alcoholic!)
My question to any other adult daughters of alcoholics is, do you have trouble sustaining long-term relationships? I feel like men leave me just like my father did. Even though my dad never left me physically, he was never there emotionally. I discovered his alcoholism when I was eight and since then it has been a long battle of people-pleasing, trying to set boundaries, manipulating my behavior to try and stop him from drinking, running, avoiding, confronting (to no avail) and finally, detaching and limiting our interactions.
I recently fell in love with a man that is similar to my father in many ways. There were even a few red flags for alcoholism, but I knew that I needed to learn more about him before I brought my baggage into the relationship. I've been working in therapy to try and understand the red flags for men that will abandon me, cheat on me, turn into alcoholics, etc....but I just don't feel like I'm making any progress. I keep finding men who leave.
I want to have a fulfilling romantic relationship and I'm curious as to how fellow adult children of alcoholics have dealt with these issues of intimacy.
I'm an adult daughter of an alcoholic father and I'm in my late 20s. I've had two serious romantic relationships in my life - the first one ending with the man cheating on me, the second one ending because of what I think are counterdependent/love avoider issues on his part. However, I also think that I'm a co-dependent/love addict. I believe the most recent relationship ended because he was afraid that I would leave him first (but duh...you can't find a more loyal person than a child of an alcoholic!)
My question to any other adult daughters of alcoholics is, do you have trouble sustaining long-term relationships? I feel like men leave me just like my father did. Even though my dad never left me physically, he was never there emotionally. I discovered his alcoholism when I was eight and since then it has been a long battle of people-pleasing, trying to set boundaries, manipulating my behavior to try and stop him from drinking, running, avoiding, confronting (to no avail) and finally, detaching and limiting our interactions.
I recently fell in love with a man that is similar to my father in many ways. There were even a few red flags for alcoholism, but I knew that I needed to learn more about him before I brought my baggage into the relationship. I've been working in therapy to try and understand the red flags for men that will abandon me, cheat on me, turn into alcoholics, etc....but I just don't feel like I'm making any progress. I keep finding men who leave.
I want to have a fulfilling romantic relationship and I'm curious as to how fellow adult children of alcoholics have dealt with these issues of intimacy.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Hi welcome.
Well I can say that as a daughter of an abusive alcoholic father I have had a long term marriage with my high school sweetheart. Not that we haven't had any issues but yes it can be done. In my case not without much help from my HP, Jesus. I know we would have never lasted without God in our lives. It was very stressful for my husband, and still is occasionally. One example, I probably have Post Stress syndrome, like when he drops something and gets angry my heart pounds and it's dreadful. He has learned to reassure me and leave me alone. And a million other things like that.
It does take work. This is a great place to start that work. Good luck.
Well I can say that as a daughter of an abusive alcoholic father I have had a long term marriage with my high school sweetheart. Not that we haven't had any issues but yes it can be done. In my case not without much help from my HP, Jesus. I know we would have never lasted without God in our lives. It was very stressful for my husband, and still is occasionally. One example, I probably have Post Stress syndrome, like when he drops something and gets angry my heart pounds and it's dreadful. He has learned to reassure me and leave me alone. And a million other things like that.
It does take work. This is a great place to start that work. Good luck.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
((CRandall))
Welcome to our SR family!
I am an adult child also ~ I spent 17 yrs with an alcoholic/addict/gambling husband - finally left because I wanted something healthier!
I did many years of work to help ME become healthier, not so co-dependent, to be free of my childhood issues and the issues of living in that mess for those long years. It wasn't easy but it was worth it.
I am now married to a wonderful healthy man! He is also an adult child of an alcoholic, so he understands a lot of the things I went thru.
Recovery tells us "If you want something different, do something different" "If you keep doing what you have always done, you will keep getting what you have always got"
Please hang out here, attend some al-anon meetings, read recovery literature, and keep reaching out for help!
Don't give up before the miracles happen - You deserve them!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
Welcome to our SR family!
I am an adult child also ~ I spent 17 yrs with an alcoholic/addict/gambling husband - finally left because I wanted something healthier!
I did many years of work to help ME become healthier, not so co-dependent, to be free of my childhood issues and the issues of living in that mess for those long years. It wasn't easy but it was worth it.
I am now married to a wonderful healthy man! He is also an adult child of an alcoholic, so he understands a lot of the things I went thru.
Recovery tells us "If you want something different, do something different" "If you keep doing what you have always done, you will keep getting what you have always got"
Please hang out here, attend some al-anon meetings, read recovery literature, and keep reaching out for help!
Don't give up before the miracles happen - You deserve them!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Kialua 
I had to laugh at that out loud. How true, isn't it? 
Rita - thank you for the support and affirmation that I am doing the right thing by trying to change things.
I'm most interested in recovery literature right now. When I first began therapy about four years ago the first book my therapist gave me was "Perfect Daughters." It was my "aha" moment and I knew that I needed to keep up therapy and explore my issues of co-dependency. My fear of abandonment issues are not only related to my father's alcoholism, but my mother's choice of him over me and my safety (she's a co-dependent as well, obviously). Additionally, I am adopted, which only compounds the abandonment issue.
What other recovery literature has helped you all cope and change your thinking patterns? I've learned that it is really hard for me to ask for things in a romantic relationship. I think that stems from never wanting to "rock the boat" with my dad and just wanting to please him. My thinking is that if I don't ask for things, the other person will be happy and thus, I will be happy. This wasn't helped any by the cheating relationship I had, where I thought that if I just did what he wanted, he wouldn't hurt me anymore. I also have problems with physical intimacy. I get the sense that men want to move quicker than I do, when what I want is to hear those three little words before we have sex. I want the guarantee that they aren't going to leave, and my thinking is that if they love me truly, they won't leave. I also would rather please them and don't get much satisfaction when they try to please me, sexually. I'm always worried about what they will think.
Does this all sound familiar?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia MO
Posts: 1,127
Crandall,
Welcome to you, so sorry for all you are going through.
My mom is an alcoholic (40+ years) also, she cheated first, my dad fed up with her cheating and drinking became a serial cheater (still going strong at 78), I hate that he does this, I told him it was "ate up", "wrong", and "dangerous", he has no plans to change, I have made a personal vow that I will never be like that, and I certainly will not raise my son to think that bed-post notching is manly.
From a guys perspective, you have to get your self-esteem back, you have to stand up for yourself, tell him what you need from him and from the relationship, make him chase you at least a little, most guys will treat you only as well as they have to. Good men like strong confident women, It's a real turnoff to have a needy, clingy, partner who is always afraid you are going to leave them.
You can do this, the sticking point is that it means not being in a relationship until you love yourself as much as you want someone to love you.
I hope you figure it out, best of luck to you,
Bill
Welcome to you, so sorry for all you are going through.
My mom is an alcoholic (40+ years) also, she cheated first, my dad fed up with her cheating and drinking became a serial cheater (still going strong at 78), I hate that he does this, I told him it was "ate up", "wrong", and "dangerous", he has no plans to change, I have made a personal vow that I will never be like that, and I certainly will not raise my son to think that bed-post notching is manly.
From a guys perspective, you have to get your self-esteem back, you have to stand up for yourself, tell him what you need from him and from the relationship, make him chase you at least a little, most guys will treat you only as well as they have to. Good men like strong confident women, It's a real turnoff to have a needy, clingy, partner who is always afraid you are going to leave them.
You can do this, the sticking point is that it means not being in a relationship until you love yourself as much as you want someone to love you.
I hope you figure it out, best of luck to you,
Bill
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Willybluedog
You can do this, the sticking point is that it means not being in a relationship until you love yourself as much as you want someone to love you.
I have worked a lot on my self-esteem issues in my individual therapy work. I still think I have more work to do, but it is better than it used to be.
In my most recent relationship, I did let him chase me, and we dated for a good month and half with him as the pursuer. Then he asked me to be his girlfriend and we got in a good routine of dates and having fun together. After another month, I felt like we were getting closer, emotionally, so I wanted to up our contact - we didn't always talk every day, but I wanted to. I didn't know how to ask and I was really struggling with how to bring it up. But before I could ask, he decided to end the relationship. I think he is a counterdependent/love avoidant because he came on strong, said all these things about the future and how he wanted a long-term relationship, but then after a wonderful weekend where he started opening up more emotionally, he ended the relationship and has not contacted me since. There were a few red flags, such as him being unwilling to go to a friend's birthday party because he thought that was a level of seriousness in our relationship and he didn't think we were there yet. I was understanding and told him that it upset me, but that we could put that off for a while. He didn't have a problem introducing me to his friends, though. The biggest red flag, I think was when he said that he wasn't going to get hurt. I think he made sure of it.
Well that was long! I think I was attracted to a counterdependent because I am a codependent. I think I played that role (along with the "hero" role) in my childhood as a daughter of an alcoholic. The end of this relationship has really hurt me, because it was so sudden and he really seemed in this for the long haul. I know I really feared abandonment once we became exclusive, but I was trying SO hard to not let that anxiety take over. It didn't work that well, but I think I hid it as best I could. I know I needed to feel secure before we took things to the next level, sexually, but I didn't know how to express that well without scaring him. I don't think he needed "love" to be intimate, but I feel like I do, because I think that if I have love the abandoning won't happen. Does anyone else feel that way?
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
As far as reading materials - I truly enjoy and learn a lot from the Daily reading books - ODAT in Al-Anon, Courage to Change and my favorite is How Al-Anon Works. . .
Several folks on here like Co-Dependent No More & Getting Them Sober.
I don't believe most men, need to be "in love" to be intimate, as where most women need that personal attachment before allowing their guard down for a physical relationship ~ we just look at physical intimacy different.
It's a process learning to be healthy - I have "slips" and have to up my recovery tools so I can maintain those non codependent thought processes.
It's work - but I'm worth it! and so are you!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
Several folks on here like Co-Dependent No More & Getting Them Sober.
I don't believe most men, need to be "in love" to be intimate, as where most women need that personal attachment before allowing their guard down for a physical relationship ~ we just look at physical intimacy different.
It's a process learning to be healthy - I have "slips" and have to up my recovery tools so I can maintain those non codependent thought processes.
It's work - but I'm worth it! and so are you!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Thanks, I'll check out Co-Dependent No More. Sounds like it is something I would benefit from!
I agree that men look at sex differently than women, so I guess it takes the right man to understand and be patient. Guess I haven't found the right one yet!
I agree that men look at sex differently than women, so I guess it takes the right man to understand and be patient. Guess I haven't found the right one yet!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia MO
Posts: 1,127
If you realy want to dig into the differences between how men and women think, then read Women are from Venus Men are from Mars by John Gray, he also has a column on the Creators Syndicate website under advice.
The right guy will wait until you are ready, and the right guy won't cheat on you either.
My first wife was spoiled rotten, I took good care of her, I helped her get her masters degree (edited papers, helped with homework, did all the chores around the house etc.) and when she graduated she started having an affair with a co-worker, and told me it was because I had'nt grown as a person, yeah right.
After my divorce I dated lots of women, but did not get intimate with anyone for almost a year, I wanted to make sure I met the right woman, and got intimate for the right reasons.
Well I have been married to her 13 years now and have had no desire to cheat on her.
The problem is most men (me included when I was in my teens and early twenties) see sex as "just sex" no emotional involvement required, and some men never mature out of that phase.
My dad is a serial adulterer, and at 78 he shows no signs of slowing down, he has zero emotional attachments to the women her has sex with, according to him the widows he has sex with are just grateful for the attention, when he told me that I told him that I felt sorry for him, he just does not get it.
I know I fell in love with my wifes personality and brain as much as the rest of her, you would not look at her from a distance and say she's a "10", but she is one of those women who you spend 5 minutes with and you know how great she is.
You need someone who is crazy about "the whole you", that person will be the love of your life.
Anyway, I hope you find the right person for you, maybe eharmony or match.com, my wife and I met through the personal ads, we wrote letters back and forth for awhile, then phone calls, me knew alot about each other before we even met.
Best of luck to you, if you want to kick this around I will be glad to listen or talk.
Bill
The right guy will wait until you are ready, and the right guy won't cheat on you either.
My first wife was spoiled rotten, I took good care of her, I helped her get her masters degree (edited papers, helped with homework, did all the chores around the house etc.) and when she graduated she started having an affair with a co-worker, and told me it was because I had'nt grown as a person, yeah right.
After my divorce I dated lots of women, but did not get intimate with anyone for almost a year, I wanted to make sure I met the right woman, and got intimate for the right reasons.
Well I have been married to her 13 years now and have had no desire to cheat on her.
The problem is most men (me included when I was in my teens and early twenties) see sex as "just sex" no emotional involvement required, and some men never mature out of that phase.
My dad is a serial adulterer, and at 78 he shows no signs of slowing down, he has zero emotional attachments to the women her has sex with, according to him the widows he has sex with are just grateful for the attention, when he told me that I told him that I felt sorry for him, he just does not get it.
I know I fell in love with my wifes personality and brain as much as the rest of her, you would not look at her from a distance and say she's a "10", but she is one of those women who you spend 5 minutes with and you know how great she is.
You need someone who is crazy about "the whole you", that person will be the love of your life.
Anyway, I hope you find the right person for you, maybe eharmony or match.com, my wife and I met through the personal ads, we wrote letters back and forth for awhile, then phone calls, me knew alot about each other before we even met.
Best of luck to you, if you want to kick this around I will be glad to listen or talk.
Bill
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
I appreciate all the feedback and good advice. I'm also reading a book called Adoption Healing (I'm adopted in addition to being the daughter of an alcoholic).
My biggest fear is abandonment, and I know that it has both to do with being adopted and being emotionally abandoned by my alcoholic father when I was living at home. It takes me at least a year to get over a romantic relationship, because the pain of rejection just reminds me of the rejection from my father, mainly, but I'm also learning that even though I don't consciously remember being separated from my birthmother, it did happen and I felt it at the time.
I feel very much alone in this because I don't know anyone who has a similar experience (being adopted and a daughter of an alcoholic). I feel like the only solution is being in a romantic relationship where that person will promise never to leave me and will truly mean it. But then in a way that also scares me, because what if the wrong person promises to stay? It is like I want to be close to someone, but then I fear it at the same time. Sort of like I both want and fear that my dad will stop drinking. Because if he quits drinking now, why couldn't he have done that when I was a kid? The damage has been done.
My biggest fear is abandonment, and I know that it has both to do with being adopted and being emotionally abandoned by my alcoholic father when I was living at home. It takes me at least a year to get over a romantic relationship, because the pain of rejection just reminds me of the rejection from my father, mainly, but I'm also learning that even though I don't consciously remember being separated from my birthmother, it did happen and I felt it at the time.
I feel very much alone in this because I don't know anyone who has a similar experience (being adopted and a daughter of an alcoholic). I feel like the only solution is being in a romantic relationship where that person will promise never to leave me and will truly mean it. But then in a way that also scares me, because what if the wrong person promises to stay? It is like I want to be close to someone, but then I fear it at the same time. Sort of like I both want and fear that my dad will stop drinking. Because if he quits drinking now, why couldn't he have done that when I was a kid? The damage has been done.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Well now is good time to work on you. Looks like you are really trying to do that with the books and reaching out here. Keep up with that, and try some meetings if you haven't. There is so much to learn on this forum, read some older posts and find someone interesting to read their history and follow their trials and tribulation and triumphs.
It's very insightful that you are pulled into being loyal before you know if it's the right person. Take some time for yourself and leave dating alone for a time while you find out who you are. You will be happier and so will your future dates.
Maybe you could try to re frame your abandonment thinking:
• Your alcoholic father didn't choose to leave you, alcoholism chose him. Some people can slam back the brewskies and hard liquor with no problem others can't.
• And your birth father (and mother) chose what they thought would be a better life, not to punish you by abandoning you. (I'm sure you've heard that before but there is some truth in that despite how it turned out.)
• Have you looked to your higher power yet? That can sometimes feel like God abandoning you too, but he is waiting for your love.
Life is a gamble, where we are born, what families we have, etc., but make the most of it you possibly can. Good luck.
It's very insightful that you are pulled into being loyal before you know if it's the right person. Take some time for yourself and leave dating alone for a time while you find out who you are. You will be happier and so will your future dates.
Maybe you could try to re frame your abandonment thinking:
• Your alcoholic father didn't choose to leave you, alcoholism chose him. Some people can slam back the brewskies and hard liquor with no problem others can't.
• And your birth father (and mother) chose what they thought would be a better life, not to punish you by abandoning you. (I'm sure you've heard that before but there is some truth in that despite how it turned out.)
• Have you looked to your higher power yet? That can sometimes feel like God abandoning you too, but he is waiting for your love.
Life is a gamble, where we are born, what families we have, etc., but make the most of it you possibly can. Good luck.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Originally Posted by CRandall
...I both want and fear that my dad will stop drinking. Because if he quits drinking now, why couldn't he have done that when I was a kid? The damage has been done.
My best friend split with her husband while their kids were young and now he is shaping up but she feels the same way. He destroyed his marriage and really negatively impacted the kids. So why bother with him now even if he is cleaning up.
Sad.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by Kialua
Maybe you could try to re frame your abandonment thinking:
• Your alcoholic father didn't choose to leave you, alcoholism chose him. Some people can slam back the brewskies and hard liquor with no problem others can't.
• And your birth father (and mother) chose what they thought would be a better life, not to punish you by abandoning you. (I'm sure you've heard that before but there is some truth in that despite how it turned out.)
• Have you looked to your higher power yet? That can sometimes feel like God abandoning you too, but he is waiting for your love.
• Your alcoholic father didn't choose to leave you, alcoholism chose him. Some people can slam back the brewskies and hard liquor with no problem others can't.
• And your birth father (and mother) chose what they thought would be a better life, not to punish you by abandoning you. (I'm sure you've heard that before but there is some truth in that despite how it turned out.)
• Have you looked to your higher power yet? That can sometimes feel like God abandoning you too, but he is waiting for your love.
I think that, honestly, the place where I need more work now is in the adoption healing. At least, I think that will be the more painful area right now. I met my birthmother ten years ago and we have a stable friendship. I wonder if there are forums out there like this for adoptees?
I'm a religious person, but my relationship with God is every-evolving. I'm mad at him a lot, I guess. I pray daily, but maybe the way I am going about it is wrong. I pray for happiness and for Him to relieve my fear of abandonment, but it just doesn't seem to be working. I'd love to believe in miracles, but I don't feel like He's shown me one! I'd love to follow the plan He has for me, I just wish I knew what it was!
Thanks all, I'm going to attend my first Al-Anon meeting in 13 years in January and I chose one that is specifically for adult children of alcoholics. Unfortunately, traveling for the holidays will prevent me from going any sooner.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Columbia MO
Posts: 1,127
Dear CRandalL,
Please consider reading Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsh.
This book was was a game changer for me. I was always asking God if you love me like the bible says then why did you let me be beaten so often as a child, while did he allow me to be sexually assaulted, verbally assualted by my mother, bullied for years with no adult ever coming to my aid. It gave me answers to many of my questions, not always answers that I like but at least I had what I thought were rational answers to my questions.
Best of luck,
Bill
Please consider reading Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsh.
This book was was a game changer for me. I was always asking God if you love me like the bible says then why did you let me be beaten so often as a child, while did he allow me to be sexually assaulted, verbally assualted by my mother, bullied for years with no adult ever coming to my aid. It gave me answers to many of my questions, not always answers that I like but at least I had what I thought were rational answers to my questions.
Best of luck,
Bill
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,437
Yes that is a great book and great place to start. Well worth a try. True we don't always get answers we like, but they are answers.
When I googled
adoptee forum abandonment it had a lot and the first one was this one:
forums.adoption.com › Community › Forums
Not sure what help they offer with healing past hurts so Al anon might still be a better bet. Glad you have that scheduled.
When I googled
adoptee forum abandonment it had a lot and the first one was this one:
forums.adoption.com › Community › Forums
Not sure what help they offer with healing past hurts so Al anon might still be a better bet. Glad you have that scheduled.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 18
Just bought Conversations with God on Amazon! That is just what I need, I think. My train of thought is often like the one you described, Bill.
I've been searching the adoption forums but I haven't found anything similar to this one, so I think I'm going to stick to finding solace with you guys and at the Al-Anon meetings.
I've been searching the adoption forums but I haven't found anything similar to this one, so I think I'm going to stick to finding solace with you guys and at the Al-Anon meetings.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
