BDL

Hello

I posted a few weeks ago trying to figure out where to start in my situation with my alcoholic bf. I have taken some advise and found a local al anon group that i plan to attend this week. My dilemmas continue and I try to address with to him some issues. We just got back from a pretty nice thanksgiving getaway at a cabin. I feel like everything is fine when we both have escaped reality. Once i start addressing the "real" issues, i get the defensive, mean, alcoholic. My biggest issue is that about 9 months ago he got a DUI. It is his 2nd one in less than 3 years. He has not rec'd any type of court date and the argument is me asking him to call the court, check in, take care of it, deal with it, and move on! His argument is that why should he rush the court? he will deal with it when the court sends him a date, until then he doesn't want to think about it. In the meantime, he continues to drive (with no drivers license), and often times while he's drinking in the vehicle, or when he's been drinking. This conversation is the death of me, because it's never a good time to discuss these issues, and I always end up as the bad guy who ruins a dinner, or relaxing time, or a car ride, or <insert "inopportune" time here>.

This evening, over dinner, the conversation started on the same subject, same argument, and same outcome. I'm the bad person who ruins things. This time i just didn't want to let it go, i wanted so badly for him to give me some hope. I wanted him to tell me that he cares enough about both of us to take care of these issues. I wanted him to give me something to fight for as i clearly pointed out that our future is in jeopardy. INstead, i got a very angry, very defensive man who told me to leave his s* alone. He got his things and grabbed his 18 pack of beer from the fridge, and left telling me on his way out that he was going to go home and get drunk. "i'm going to go home and get drunk because i'm sick of hearing this s*" He feels that I'm nagging and "on his case", and he doesn't agree that his situation has any effect or have anything to do with me.

I stil here, broken hearted wondering why I"m still in this? There is nothing here for me. He doesn't have a job, he doesn't obey or respect the law, he doesn't want to face reality, he doesn't show any interest in a future with me. Yet, he tells me he wants to be with me, he doesn't want to break up, in his moments he's affectionate, and organized, and extremely smart.

I feel so lonely, it's not something i can easily talk to my family or friends about, most don't even know that i"m in this. I"m a successful, doing well in my career and the overall in my life and i know that is hard for him. I cover expenses to all our entertainment because i keep in mind that he's on a budget. He's extremely sensitive whenever i bring this up, so again another major thing (elephant in the room) that we can't discuss because it might set him off. Truth is, i do it because i care about him, us, and I don't do it because i have any type of agenda.

In any case, i'm sure many of you can relate. I know that my bf is in so deep that at this point it's going to take a rock bottom moment for him to change or want to change. I am SO incredibly scared to be in the picutre when that occurs. I'm not sure i'm ready to be there to deal with a death of an innocent person from a car accident while he was drunk driving, or another arrest and jail time, or watching him head to the hospital from the effects of alcohol like i watched my dad go through time and and time again. At the same time, i'm afraid if I leave him - that it will make matters worse for him. I know this is a common dilemma and i'm wondering how you that can relate found the strength to choose the right thing to do. Did any of you stay and succeed? Did any of you stay only to witness a rockbottom that changed your life and ultimately making the situation worse? Rockbottom seems to be what everyone says needs to happen, i just don't know if it's best to be there or not when it happens. I"m so incredibly lost.

SoaringSpirits

The issue here is not his rock bottom, it's yours.

How far are you willing to go down the rabbit hole with him?

choublak

I have to wonder if he is lying about not receiving any information about a court date...

In any case, he'll be spending several years in jail if he keeps this up.

It continues to amaze me how so many addicts believe they are immune to the police.

BDL

Wow... such a powerful question and statement, i had not thought of this in this perspective... thank you for that reality check.

I'm not sure i can even answer that in this moment, but you have given me so much to think about.

How naive i was to not think that i, too, need a rock bottom......

thank you

BDL

I have wondered about the court date too, but he's been fixated on the fact that when he was released from the DUI they told him it would take "up to 3 years" to receive a court date, because that's how behind the court system was. I picked up him and he showed me his paperwork and there wasn't any info on dates on there. But, i do have my doubts, 9 months is a LONG time.

I have told him that Jail is the only thing he can result in, i have even had nightmares about this. It's so outside of how i was raised and what i believe in.

My dad, an alcoholic, his whole life always felt immune to the police. My bf reminds me of him in that regard. They are convinced that the police is evil and the judicial system is against them. I simply don't understand.

Thumper

I'll never understand either. I have determined that alcoholics believe whatever they need to believe that will allow them to continue to drink and carry on as if nothing is wrong. I chalk that up to brain changes and part of the addictive process. Denial is powerful. Anyone that interfers with their drinking is against them, including us if it comes down to it.

FWIW you are nagging him. He is an adult and he has made a decision on how to handle his affairs and you don't like his decision. Instead of taking that information and deciding if he is the kind of person you want as a partner, you try and change him. By reasoning, explaining, pointing things out, educating, trying to talk until he 'gets it', blah blah blah. Also known as nagging. Been there done that. Denail is powerful on both sides of the fence. I did not want to accept his bahavior (ie him) as he was and I did not want to leave so I nagged.

When I was in your position I stayed. I stayed for many years and I eventually quit nagging so there was less friction in the house/relationship but I did not accept or respect the reality (his or mine). I held on to a fantasy. He fed this with all the right words but none of the actions. This lead to all sorts of unhealthy patterns, confusion, resentment, and eventually my bottom. During this time his drinking slowly increased.

We divorced. That was 2 years ago. He did spiral down further after that but today he is in treatment and has been since January. My life is soooo much better. My children have struggled but they are no longer growing up in a family drowning in alcohol. I am working very hard to make sure they have one healthy parent - the one I can control - myself. I have no idea if he'll maintain recovery but I have zero doubt that if I would not have left, we'd both be living the exact same life we were 2.5yrs ago - only a little worse.

dollydo

Alcoholics live in a world of make believe. They are unable to face the world on its own terms, thus, they are not productive thinkers, they are avoiders, they think the tooth fairy is going to sweep down and poof everything will be ok. That is not reality based thinking.

He has nothing to offer you, zero, nada and most likely never will. Don't you think that you deserve a better life than what he has to offer? I do.

Until you hit your bottom and work on your enabling and codependency issues nothing will change.

choublak

Let's see: he's already had two DUI's in the past three years, and now he drives intoxicated, with a suspended license? Depending on where you live, the police in the area likely know who he is, they know his car, and already "have it out for him". When (yes when, not if) he gets stopped again by the police, they will charge him with a 3rd DUI and driving with a suspended license, probably among a laundry list of other charges. He will have more than just his court date to think about. He won't be able to pull off "I don't want to think about it now" with the police. A 3rd DUI could land him in jail for up to five years, depending on the state you live in. So even if what you say doesn't make any difference with him, more jail time and charges await him.

vujade

But what does staying do for YOU? Why are you concerned more about his well-being than your own? (And I know those seem like a harsh questions, but they come from a place of personally living your reality and having to ask myself the same things.)

Where he takes his life is HIS choice - and although you might not feel that he truly understands the consequences of his choices, it won't make a difference to keep trying to explain it (and chances are, he knows anyway). No matter what you feel like you might save him from, if it wants it bad enough, he will lie, cheat, steal and sneak to get it. Don't think that you being around to save him from himself is really going to save HIM...it may just save that particular moment. In the meantime, you are sacrificing SELF for him. And he might say the right stuff at the right time when you need a little stroking to stay in the game. But believe me, he doesn't feel gratitude for what you do and his main priority is HIM.

You ask where rock bottom is. Although no one could possibly answer that question, the fact is, if you keep catching him before he truly hits it, he will never get there. The biggest problem is, as Soaring Spirits alluded to, if you get too wrapped up in focusing on HIS rock bottom...you won't be as worried as you should about your own.

I noticed in your last paragraph that you are the child of an alcoholic (ACOA). Now is your chance to change your path. If you don't want to live through it again...then don't. You don't have to. But right now, that is where you are headed.

nodaybut2day

Hold on...he's jobless, irresponsible, deluded and in denial, hangs out at home getting drunk (and mean) while you foot the bill and it's "hard for him"? Wow, poor little him.


How is HIS fate and HIS life YOUR responsibility?

I strongly recommend looking at the man's ACTIONS and forgetting his WORDS. Those are so easily uttered and then quickly forgotten. What do his actions tell you? Is he interested in recovery? Is he interested in finding a job to contribute to the household expenses? Has he done anything to indicate he places the relationship above his beloved booze?

This man may be sweet and smart at times, but he's also mean and drunk at many other times. You simply cannot separate the two parts and if you are to remain in this relationship, you'll need to accept him fully and completely, just as he is today...because this is exactly the person he wants to be at the moment. Now, is he the man you want to spend the rest of your life with?

To answer your initial question, IMO, rock bottom (for me) was when the pain of staying was greater than the pain of leaving.

Keep posting!

Learn2Live

Yes, I can, many times over and I was miserable, sick, panic-stricken all the time, never any peace.

I hate it when they hit "rock-bottom" and I'm there because I tend to be free-falling with them when they hit. And usually, their definition of "rock-bottom" is not the same as mine.

I understand. I had to learn to trust my instincts and get away from those kinds of people.

IMO, that's really not your problem.

Sticking around the first time damn near killed me. I only crawled out from under the wreckage with help to escape from my family. And the doctors and therapists who helped put me back together again. I'm still suffering from the fall-out of sticking around while someone else freefalls in addiction and alcoholism. The second time I stayed, I went nearly insane. The third time I stayed, I was a little stronger and better at this game and was able to maintain healthy distances when I needed to. No, I was never successful at anything related to those relationships.

Rockbottom can take a long, long time. My dad is at rockbottom now and is 75 years old, has cancer, heart disease, lung disease, and liver damage from his drinking and smoking lifestyle of 40, 50, or 65+ years, however you want to look at it.

I've learned that looking at life and the world through a shared lens with an alcoholic or an addict makes me feel this way too. I got my own set of glasses and let others get their own too. My life is so much better when I do not allow that dysfunction and sickness into my life. There is just so much sick sick baggage associated with associating with alcoholics and addicts. I truly hope you get away from him.

jessiec

Hugs, honey. Glad you are here. I have to ask, if he is without a job, is he driving your car filled with your gas?

BDL

No, he has a small income from his severance. He drives his truck, which he fills up with his own money. I don't pay for any of his expenses other than our entertainment (vacation, dinning, etc).

I also do not let him drive my car - EVER. I also do not get in the truck with him when he drives it. Anytime we go anywhere, we take my car and i drive. It's also pretty tiresome!

BDL

[QUOTE=nodaybut2day;3186372]Hold on...he's jobless, irresponsible, deluded and in denial, hangs out at home getting drunk (and mean) while you foot the bill and it's "hard for him"? Wow, poor little him.

Right??? So pathetic when i read that back.

BDL

wow, really? How is being with a significant other who is unemployed remotely resemble an escort? Yes, he is an alcoholic. Yes, I pay for our outings sometimes. Yes, he was laid off like many other americans. I'm not paying him to be with me. I don't buy his beer. I don't pay for his rent. I don't pay for his bills. I'm a tough situation, and I'm hurting. There is feelings involved here, I'm in this forum trying to find support, not low blows.

chronsweet

... sounds like the ABF I dream of getting away from every single day. The one I had a child with (who suffers from my poor choices). I was in a healthy relationship and I know the difference in being with an Alcoholic, it is so so sick! I don't mean that in a good way either (remember when we used to use sic to mean really really good stuff).

My boyfriend was jobless for 3.5 years while he USED me. I finally got him a job because I was tired of footing the bill for EVERYTHING. IMO, a real man wouldn't feel good letting his g/f foot the entertainment and outing costs. My bf of over 4 years who I have a son with has bought me ONE BOTTLE of perfume as a gift our entire relationship. He doesn't buy his own son anything. Why??? BECAUSE ALL HIS MONEY GOES TO, you guessed it, ALCOHOL!!!!!!!! Your bf sounds a lot like mine. He doesn't have a problem taking and accepting things from you. Is this SERIOUSLY what you want from a RELATIONSHIP?

My mom told me all about my current bf and his intentions and how I was better than that and wouldn't be accepting of the situation in the long run. OMG, how I wish I would have listened. She tried telling me before I gave birth that he was a loser and a user. OMG, how I wish I would have listened. Sometimes we just don't want to face the truth because we truly wish this Alcoholic/addictive person would just change FOR US. Truth is, they just don't want to. I asked my bf this last weekend if he was ever going to be able to work on his alcoholism. I did it in a way to try to gauge where he was at, but not start an argument (I am OVER arguments, they get NOWHERE). His answer in so many words is that he doesn't have a problem and can't really see himself quitting anytime soon (he drinks EVERYDAY and has for longer than I have known him). So my question to myself is how fast can I save to get away from this madness.

BDL

well thanks for clarifying. I think of the word escort as a person who is paid for sex, and yes i took offense to that. I see your point and used the term significant as a general reference. I'm just trying to figure out this situation....

quitforme79

"I'm not sure i'm ready to be there to deal with a death of an innocent person from a car accident while he was drunk driving, or another arrest and jail time, or watching him head to the hospital from the effects of alcohol like i watched my dad go through time and and time again. At the same time, i'm afraid if I leave him - that it will make matters worse for him".

In this one paragraph I see your dad and your bf...where are YOU my dear?(except putting up with all the bs) I too grew up in an alcoholic home so we accept henious behavior when other people would walk away after one incident not even half as bad. I know it's hard but you can't help him or change him. Please consider taking care of yourself. You may find that once your remove yourself from this situation that life is pretty darn good and that happy healthy relationships are possible. You do not have to live like you did when you were young. I wish you all the best xoxo

BDL

Thanks everyone for your support and feedback. I"m really just trying to figure all of this out, and it's nice to get this reality check - i need it. I am going to my first Al-anon meeting tomorrow, and think that is something that will give me the push i need to do what i "know" i need to do.... i appreciate all of you who take the time to share your stories and offer advise, i sincerely take it all in.

BlueMoon

hi BDL - 2 more cents here a book called "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drew - full of excellent + PRACTICAL + NON-judgemental advice for coping/dealing with an alcoholic partner -
it has helped me tremendously over the years (+years +years )
that and Al-anon!!!

I am learning that the best thing I can do for my AH, our relationship and ME is to put ME FIRST - hardest damned thing I've ever had to learn to do! I have to learn to take care of ME - or there simply isn't anything else.

Take it One Day at a Time + Keep Coming Back!
Blue