Financial Deadbeatism: Long
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Financial Deadbeatism: Long
OK, I know I'm opening myself up to exactly what I need to hear. But I'm so angry right now, I'll just live with it--bring it on.
As you know, I'm still living with AH. I really do feel very much at peace most of the time. I detach with love, I don't get in his business, I enjoy the now, etc. etc.
I've stopped enabling in MOST areas except the financial ones... and that's what's prompting this post.
I have had a GREAT two quarters and have the high of knowing I can pay off all my credit card bills in February (which were incurred by expenses related to his mother moving next door to us--too long to explain).
So, I was tinkering with the idea of treating myself to a kitchen update: nothing outrageous--but enough to get it out of the 70s. AH was psyched, too. He's the cook in the family, so I was going to let him pick the range, etc. and I would pick the cabinets.
Well I've started to have pre-buyers remorse because I know I really can't afford it. Yesterday I determined that I really need to wait until I've paid off AHs business debts (yes, that's right, he doesn't have the money to pay off his own debts, so I'm stuck with a really large HEL and commercial loan because I foolishly cosigned shortly after he relapsed..ok that's another long story).
So, he called me, drunk, from the parking lot of Home Depot and said that he had found a range, and he was all excited. I simply reminded him that buying the range is premature because we're not replacing a range. We're replacing a wall-oven and cooktop so we have to get new cabinets and new countertop. He got all miffed, said something about how we're not communicating properly and then said this:
"Here I thought I was being magnanimous in buying the range."
!!! HE's being MAGNANIMOUS buying HIMSELF a range instead of allowing ME to pay for it??? Wow. Sorry, it just set me off big time. I didn't say it on the phone, because he's drunk and because I just wasn't up for a fight, so that's why I'm posting.. GRRR!!!
I guess the bottom line is, he just doesn't see what he does! And how he thinks! He gets mad at his brother when his brother doesn't thank him for a meal, he feels his brother just expects it--but he does the SAME thing. I'll say every month, "Hey, I'm going to the bank to pay your business loan, " and he'll say, "OK, see you later!"
I KNOW what you are thinking--so, I should just stop paying his bills. The thing is twofold: 1st, it will ruin my credit if I stop paying (and he surely doesn't care about that); and 2nd, I just get mad because he doesn't feel the responsibility to man up!! So, if I did make him hand over any money that he could pay towards his debts, he'd look at it as DOING ME A FAVOR. That's what gets me mad.
Sometimes the alcoholism is the big thing, but then the trigger moments are things that are tangential. I remember my mother saying that she didn't divorce my abusively alcoholic father until he started cheating on her. Adultery was her big trigger. For me, I just think it's the money thing. It is so emblematic of a bad character and lack of integrity.
Anything you say back to me I know is deserved. I'm thinking it all myself. But I still had to vent anyway.
As you know, I'm still living with AH. I really do feel very much at peace most of the time. I detach with love, I don't get in his business, I enjoy the now, etc. etc.
I've stopped enabling in MOST areas except the financial ones... and that's what's prompting this post.
I have had a GREAT two quarters and have the high of knowing I can pay off all my credit card bills in February (which were incurred by expenses related to his mother moving next door to us--too long to explain).
So, I was tinkering with the idea of treating myself to a kitchen update: nothing outrageous--but enough to get it out of the 70s. AH was psyched, too. He's the cook in the family, so I was going to let him pick the range, etc. and I would pick the cabinets.
Well I've started to have pre-buyers remorse because I know I really can't afford it. Yesterday I determined that I really need to wait until I've paid off AHs business debts (yes, that's right, he doesn't have the money to pay off his own debts, so I'm stuck with a really large HEL and commercial loan because I foolishly cosigned shortly after he relapsed..ok that's another long story).
So, he called me, drunk, from the parking lot of Home Depot and said that he had found a range, and he was all excited. I simply reminded him that buying the range is premature because we're not replacing a range. We're replacing a wall-oven and cooktop so we have to get new cabinets and new countertop. He got all miffed, said something about how we're not communicating properly and then said this:
"Here I thought I was being magnanimous in buying the range."
!!! HE's being MAGNANIMOUS buying HIMSELF a range instead of allowing ME to pay for it??? Wow. Sorry, it just set me off big time. I didn't say it on the phone, because he's drunk and because I just wasn't up for a fight, so that's why I'm posting.. GRRR!!!
I guess the bottom line is, he just doesn't see what he does! And how he thinks! He gets mad at his brother when his brother doesn't thank him for a meal, he feels his brother just expects it--but he does the SAME thing. I'll say every month, "Hey, I'm going to the bank to pay your business loan, " and he'll say, "OK, see you later!"
I KNOW what you are thinking--so, I should just stop paying his bills. The thing is twofold: 1st, it will ruin my credit if I stop paying (and he surely doesn't care about that); and 2nd, I just get mad because he doesn't feel the responsibility to man up!! So, if I did make him hand over any money that he could pay towards his debts, he'd look at it as DOING ME A FAVOR. That's what gets me mad.
Sometimes the alcoholism is the big thing, but then the trigger moments are things that are tangential. I remember my mother saying that she didn't divorce my abusively alcoholic father until he started cheating on her. Adultery was her big trigger. For me, I just think it's the money thing. It is so emblematic of a bad character and lack of integrity.
Anything you say back to me I know is deserved. I'm thinking it all myself. But I still had to vent anyway.
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
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ummmm, 
Vent away, Solomio. XAH was always surprised too, when I wasn't over-the-roof-thrilled with his generous offer to do what he wanted to do / buy what he wanted for himself - but usually with him it was with my money. (Oh, how could I be so callous, so venal, couldn't I see he was doing this for me??! Yep, I always wanted a new fish tank and fish instead of heat when it's 20 below. Bleaaaah.)
Nothing really constructive to say, so :ghug3
Vent away, Solomio. XAH was always surprised too, when I wasn't over-the-roof-thrilled with his generous offer to do what he wanted to do / buy what he wanted for himself - but usually with him it was with my money. (Oh, how could I be so callous, so venal, couldn't I see he was doing this for me??! Yep, I always wanted a new fish tank and fish instead of heat when it's 20 below. Bleaaaah.)Nothing really constructive to say, so :ghug3
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Originally Posted by anvilhead 
is this the life you want to be living? or is the life you have simply resigned yourself to live?
Well, I looked it up:
Resignation: a submissive unresisting attitude; passive acquiescence
I actually couldn't find any good definition of "acceptance" that would fit this situation:
The act or process of accepting.
2. The state of being accepted or acceptable.
3. Favorable reception; approval.
4. Belief in something; agreement.
His not at least making some effort to be a partner in his debt repayment is unacceptable. I do not approve of it. I do not believe that this is something I can agree to--yet that's exactly what I've been doing.
So, to your point, I guess I'm resigned to it. But I'm not! Or, if I am, I shouldn't be!
Acceptance, in terms of the Serenity Prayer, says "accept the things I cannot change." It doesn't say to accept anything that comes your way. It says to change the things you can.
Thanks for letting me think this through
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
He's financially irresponsible, has a sense of entitlement, and is an active alcoholic.
Just what are you getting out of the current situation? You wouldn't keep doing what you're doing if there wasn't some sort of payoff for you.
Personally I prefer the simple life I live alone, uncluttered from the insanity of someone's alcoholism.
Sending you hugs of support.
Just what are you getting out of the current situation? You wouldn't keep doing what you're doing if there wasn't some sort of payoff for you.
Personally I prefer the simple life I live alone, uncluttered from the insanity of someone's alcoholism.
Sending you hugs of support.
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
how about this one from wikipedia....
Acceptance is a person's agreement to experience a situation, to follow a process or condition (often a negative or uncomfortable situation) without attempting to change it, protest, or exit.
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
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((SoloMio))
Hate you are in this situation - it isn't a fun place to be ~
a relationship should have both partners working together ~ good for both parties ~
A good question to ask yourself is "Is this relationship mutual beneficial?"
I understand not wanting to ruin your credit - but is your "Credit" worth your Serenity?
Only you can answer that question. . .
For me, it wasn't - so I lost my house, had my paycheck garnished (twice!), filled bankruptcy - survived and started over actually three years ago this month. It wasn't easy - but I finally reached a point where living in cardboard box on the side of the road would be better than what I was living in and dealing with -
But my friend - vent away - walk your path - seek guidance from your HP - you will know what is right for you - somehow we always do!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
Hate you are in this situation - it isn't a fun place to be ~
a relationship should have both partners working together ~ good for both parties ~
A good question to ask yourself is "Is this relationship mutual beneficial?"
I understand not wanting to ruin your credit - but is your "Credit" worth your Serenity?
Only you can answer that question. . .
For me, it wasn't - so I lost my house, had my paycheck garnished (twice!), filled bankruptcy - survived and started over actually three years ago this month. It wasn't easy - but I finally reached a point where living in cardboard box on the side of the road would be better than what I was living in and dealing with -
But my friend - vent away - walk your path - seek guidance from your HP - you will know what is right for you - somehow we always do!
PINK HUGS,
Rita
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
this thread was all about PROTEST - not that that's WRONG, but it conflicts with the concept of acceptance. and to me, world famous psychologist that i am (not!), your PROTEST about the range is really your PROTEST over the whole damn thing, only the range, or the recycle, or the stain on the recliner is the safer outlet.
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Originally Posted by anvilhead
that's usually how it goes...it's not the BIG thing that causes us to blow out stack, but something simple and safe. that's just what i suspect from my vantage point at this end of the bandwith! 
it's not the range, it's his sense of entitlement about the range. it's that he was drunk when he called. (that bothered you because you mentioned it, not just that he called from Home Depot, but that he called, DRUNK and happened to be AT home depot). it's that you've done all this work to get the finances in order, and he could give a **** less. it's that you started thinking about YOUR dream kitchen, and this asshat goes and finds a range that is incompatible and you don't even have plans drafted yet. it's that he doesn't get it. that he never WILL get it. that he's unteachable. that he has the emotional intelligence of a 7 year old. that all you want is a full fledged partner and you got THIS instead.........
or something like that............
it's not the range, it's his sense of entitlement about the range. it's that he was drunk when he called. (that bothered you because you mentioned it, not just that he called from Home Depot, but that he called, DRUNK and happened to be AT home depot). it's that you've done all this work to get the finances in order, and he could give a **** less. it's that you started thinking about YOUR dream kitchen, and this asshat goes and finds a range that is incompatible and you don't even have plans drafted yet. it's that he doesn't get it. that he never WILL get it. that he's unteachable. that he has the emotional intelligence of a 7 year old. that all you want is a full fledged partner and you got THIS instead.........
or something like that............
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
You will continue to do what you are doing, until YOU, and only YOU decide this isn't how YOU really want to live.
If you really want to do something nice for you, why not take a little of that money and go away for a weekend, take your best friend, or your sister go experience a little bit of life away from the alkie. Away from the drama and daily chaos, it might lighten your burden just a bit. You certainly deserve it.
Personally, I would not be putting money into a home at this time. I would pay the debt off first. I have a feeling that your financial issues, ( and add the alcoholism) may be leading up to "the straw that breaks the camel's back". Sounds like a deal breaking situation is on the horizon. ( IMHO) I know I got tired of being on the alkie's "clean up committee"
Embrace you, life is short my friend, sending warm thoughts your way)))))
If you really want to do something nice for you, why not take a little of that money and go away for a weekend, take your best friend, or your sister go experience a little bit of life away from the alkie. Away from the drama and daily chaos, it might lighten your burden just a bit. You certainly deserve it.
Personally, I would not be putting money into a home at this time. I would pay the debt off first. I have a feeling that your financial issues, ( and add the alcoholism) may be leading up to "the straw that breaks the camel's back". Sounds like a deal breaking situation is on the horizon. ( IMHO) I know I got tired of being on the alkie's "clean up committee"
Embrace you, life is short my friend, sending warm thoughts your way)))))
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
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I understand some of what you're feeling. My AW and I have run up huge credit card debt, which we've managed to mostly pay off. The problem is, I can't quite figure out where all of it's going, and she doesn't seem to be able to comprehend the problem... or refuses to accept it.
I know I should get out of the marriage, but I don't see any way to do it without ruining myself financially.
I think there are many who post here in a similar situation. Knowing what we should do is easier than actually doing it.
I know I should get out of the marriage, but I don't see any way to do it without ruining myself financially.
I think there are many who post here in a similar situation. Knowing what we should do is easier than actually doing it.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I agree things get complicated but if you have huge credit card debt (or any debt) with a partner that is not working with you to solve it you are already balancing on financial ruin and getting in deeper instead of getting out.
Financially speaking you need a long term plan. By you I don't have any specific poster in mind - just general 'you'. For me if the plan included the alcoholic, it got nowhere. Our finances remained exactly the same year after year - which was always in debt and lots of stress barerly squeaking by or coming up short. I had to hide and protect money just to pay bills. We were unable to move forward financially. No goals were ever met. No security. The finances keep people stuck a long time and I feel so fortunate that I had a job all along so I had an income.
I found that my financial security increased greatly as a single parent of four kids even with all that daycare cost and everything on my own then it ever was trying to work with an alcoholic partner. I have the same exact job and no raises.
Financial goals aren't just about budgeting the money but about ability to make plans that better your life and follow through. Security. All sorts of decisions and follow through - working as a team in the game of life. Addicts are on team alcohol. Team alcohol destroys financial security and planning.
Financially speaking you need a long term plan. By you I don't have any specific poster in mind - just general 'you'. For me if the plan included the alcoholic, it got nowhere. Our finances remained exactly the same year after year - which was always in debt and lots of stress barerly squeaking by or coming up short. I had to hide and protect money just to pay bills. We were unable to move forward financially. No goals were ever met. No security. The finances keep people stuck a long time and I feel so fortunate that I had a job all along so I had an income.
I found that my financial security increased greatly as a single parent of four kids even with all that daycare cost and everything on my own then it ever was trying to work with an alcoholic partner. I have the same exact job and no raises.
Financial goals aren't just about budgeting the money but about ability to make plans that better your life and follow through. Security. All sorts of decisions and follow through - working as a team in the game of life. Addicts are on team alcohol. Team alcohol destroys financial security and planning.
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Solomio...
Thank you for sharing all of this with us. And Anvilhead - thank you for your wonderful wisdom.
I remember raging on and on about all the terrible things my AH was doing to me. I was frustrated beyond words - I mean seriously, couldn't he see how selfish and inconsiderate his behavior was? In a word - no. Why? Because no matter how much I bitched, I chose to continue to bail him out of his messes. I chose to tolerate the unacceptable. I chose to sit around and not take responsibility for my part.
That I think was the hardest pill to swallow - the Big Fat Pill called Responsibility. I was not (much to my dismay) a helpless victim to the disease. I volunteered my money and my time to keep up the charade so everyone would see us as the perfect family.
When I stopped my part - the charade quickly fell to pieces. I could no longer ignore/deny the unacceptable. I learned that "acceptance" does NOT equal ACCEPTABLE. It just means - I live in reality of what is. I stop trying to change/control all the people, places, things around me. I work on changing me and point myself into the direction I want my life to go.
It took me some time to truly figure out what MY direction really was. Hell, I think I first had to accept the fact that my direction really didn't include my AH in it. Once I accepted him for exactly who he was though - I KNEW without a doubt that I didn't want him as a partner anymore. I couldn't afford (physically, emotionally, financially!) to have him as my partner anymore. As MsPinkAcres said, I would prefer a cardboard box under a bridge to living with my AH ever again.
The first step in the process is getting the focus back on me. Everytime I feel myself spin - I *know* it's because I'm mis-focused. I'm looking at someone/something else - and chances are pretty good that I'm out of control because I'm trying to change them.
SEnding you warm thoughts and prayers!
Shannon
Thank you for sharing all of this with us. And Anvilhead - thank you for your wonderful wisdom.
I remember raging on and on about all the terrible things my AH was doing to me. I was frustrated beyond words - I mean seriously, couldn't he see how selfish and inconsiderate his behavior was? In a word - no. Why? Because no matter how much I bitched, I chose to continue to bail him out of his messes. I chose to tolerate the unacceptable. I chose to sit around and not take responsibility for my part.
That I think was the hardest pill to swallow - the Big Fat Pill called Responsibility. I was not (much to my dismay) a helpless victim to the disease. I volunteered my money and my time to keep up the charade so everyone would see us as the perfect family.
When I stopped my part - the charade quickly fell to pieces. I could no longer ignore/deny the unacceptable. I learned that "acceptance" does NOT equal ACCEPTABLE. It just means - I live in reality of what is. I stop trying to change/control all the people, places, things around me. I work on changing me and point myself into the direction I want my life to go.
It took me some time to truly figure out what MY direction really was. Hell, I think I first had to accept the fact that my direction really didn't include my AH in it. Once I accepted him for exactly who he was though - I KNEW without a doubt that I didn't want him as a partner anymore. I couldn't afford (physically, emotionally, financially!) to have him as my partner anymore. As MsPinkAcres said, I would prefer a cardboard box under a bridge to living with my AH ever again.
The first step in the process is getting the focus back on me. Everytime I feel myself spin - I *know* it's because I'm mis-focused. I'm looking at someone/something else - and chances are pretty good that I'm out of control because I'm trying to change them.
SEnding you warm thoughts and prayers!
Shannon
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Quebec
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Yup, I totally get it. Really, I do. During my marriage to XAH, he probably cost me above and beyond 100K, which I earned dancing in a strip club, while he whined and b*tched at home about what was wrong with me and gave himself presents for being so damn wonderful.
If affected me so much that even to this day, when I get my paycheck and pay off my bills, daycare or give my parents money for rent/food etc, I feel empowered. I get a kick out of paying stuff and stashing away money because I CAN and no one will ever take that away from.
I know you're peeved. I would be too. Now what's the next step for you? I'm a woman of action and when I feel in turmoil about something, my first reaction is "How do I change this for myself?"
If affected me so much that even to this day, when I get my paycheck and pay off my bills, daycare or give my parents money for rent/food etc, I feel empowered. I get a kick out of paying stuff and stashing away money because I CAN and no one will ever take that away from.
I know you're peeved. I would be too. Now what's the next step for you? I'm a woman of action and when I feel in turmoil about something, my first reaction is "How do I change this for myself?"
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
I decided to file personal bankruptcy last year following my divorce from my AH. I had co-signed a car loan with him. I had allowed him to abuse my credit for years. I had also discovered forged loans he had made in my name.
Before I made that big decision of bankruptcy, I had to look at what my life would be like if I didn't continue throwing money into that black hole of debt. The voice of my divorce attorney kept ringing in my head at the end of each month "you will never get out of this debt if you continue to only make the minimum payments each month. Pelican, you will still be paying this debt in 20 years".
I finally looked at the reality of how much money I was throwing into that black hole, just to keep my good credit rating. I had never been late on a payment, ever. Yet, I didn't have room for a sniffle or a sneeze in our day to day living.
I had to accept that my credit rating wasn't going to keep me warm at night and protect me from a financial crisis if I lost my job.
I looked at how much I was paying towards the debt each month and realized I could be spending that money each month on building a better today and future for myself and my children.
I made my decision to black mark my credit rating today to provide for my future.
Sending you encouragement and support as you make your choices.
Before I made that big decision of bankruptcy, I had to look at what my life would be like if I didn't continue throwing money into that black hole of debt. The voice of my divorce attorney kept ringing in my head at the end of each month "you will never get out of this debt if you continue to only make the minimum payments each month. Pelican, you will still be paying this debt in 20 years".
I finally looked at the reality of how much money I was throwing into that black hole, just to keep my good credit rating. I had never been late on a payment, ever. Yet, I didn't have room for a sniffle or a sneeze in our day to day living.
I had to accept that my credit rating wasn't going to keep me warm at night and protect me from a financial crisis if I lost my job.
I looked at how much I was paying towards the debt each month and realized I could be spending that money each month on building a better today and future for myself and my children.
I made my decision to black mark my credit rating today to provide for my future.
Sending you encouragement and support as you make your choices.
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I have to second everyone's view on this subject Solomio.
What jumped out at me in your post was 'I was tinkering with the idea of treating myself to a kitchen update'.
I for myself, found it better never to tinker with an idea about updating anything for my home or anything else concerning my newly recovering XH,(as in a 3 year period of him living back with me )which in total was roughly about 16 months,
I refused to pay his bank loans and did not involve him in any of my plans for rejuvinating any home improvements,he was so unreliable on all fronts. This made him very angry,I kept strong on my bounderies.
He has now been gone almost now abt 16 months,since then I have redecorated my home, bought new furniture,have money in my back account,and a new car, and not acountable to anyone,and best of all have my peace of mind back,and going to Al-anon I slowly but surely am getting some semblence of sanity back into my life.
I have been through all the bankruptsy stuff,and never thought there would be a time when I ever thought I would get through all that,and that taught me a big lesson,that I would never take on anyone elses financial problems which they incurred,I would pay for my part which back then I may have played in it ,but not theirs.
All my best wishes and we all come to a decison that is in our own best interests
Serenity Prayer- God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The Courage to change the things I can
And the Courage to know the difference
What jumped out at me in your post was 'I was tinkering with the idea of treating myself to a kitchen update'.
I for myself, found it better never to tinker with an idea about updating anything for my home or anything else concerning my newly recovering XH,(as in a 3 year period of him living back with me )which in total was roughly about 16 months,
I refused to pay his bank loans and did not involve him in any of my plans for rejuvinating any home improvements,he was so unreliable on all fronts. This made him very angry,I kept strong on my bounderies.
He has now been gone almost now abt 16 months,since then I have redecorated my home, bought new furniture,have money in my back account,and a new car, and not acountable to anyone,and best of all have my peace of mind back,and going to Al-anon I slowly but surely am getting some semblence of sanity back into my life.
I have been through all the bankruptsy stuff,and never thought there would be a time when I ever thought I would get through all that,and that taught me a big lesson,that I would never take on anyone elses financial problems which they incurred,I would pay for my part which back then I may have played in it ,but not theirs.
All my best wishes and we all come to a decison that is in our own best interests
Serenity Prayer- God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change
The Courage to change the things I can
And the Courage to know the difference
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
As long as you are with him, letting him feed off of you, you will never stop the financial bleeding. It is simple math. To stop the bleeding, you must stop paying off his debt, his mothers housing and his day to day expenses.
For whatever reason you have chosen to enable him, possibly for life. I would be lieing if I said I understand the why, cause I don't. Yet, I do understand one thing, this is your choice, and if you continue this financial enabling you have no room to complain.....as you have made the choice.
I wish you the best...Dolly
For whatever reason you have chosen to enable him, possibly for life. I would be lieing if I said I understand the why, cause I don't. Yet, I do understand one thing, this is your choice, and if you continue this financial enabling you have no room to complain.....as you have made the choice.
I wish you the best...Dolly
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Anvil "that he has the emotional intelligence of a 7 year old. that all you want is a full fledged partner and you got THIS instead........."
what a great freaking quote once again! YES, this is the epitome of all that is wrong with an A relationship. They JUST don't get it. NEVER will get it. And I CAN NEVER live my life with someone who doesn't GET IT.
I am still with A, but am constantly thinking about my exit strategy and plan.
SOLOMIO - My Abf has about the same level of responsibility and integrity as your AH does and it seriously drives me crazy. I can't compute it in my brain because I would never in a million years shirk my responsibility, to my son, to my home, to myself. A partner is supposed to be someone who you share and work towards common goals with. Not just a person you can 'put up with' while you live your life on different wavelengths.
what a great freaking quote once again! YES, this is the epitome of all that is wrong with an A relationship. They JUST don't get it. NEVER will get it. And I CAN NEVER live my life with someone who doesn't GET IT.
I am still with A, but am constantly thinking about my exit strategy and plan.
SOLOMIO - My Abf has about the same level of responsibility and integrity as your AH does and it seriously drives me crazy. I can't compute it in my brain because I would never in a million years shirk my responsibility, to my son, to my home, to myself. A partner is supposed to be someone who you share and work towards common goals with. Not just a person you can 'put up with' while you live your life on different wavelengths.
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