seek

I don't know if this is typical or not, but in my family somehow the alcoholics have succeeded in maligning other people so that they come off smelling like roses and the other people are suspect . . . it's very twisted.

What makes it work is that there are enough people in the family that don't want conflict, don't want to get involved, or whatever - it is hard to explain the exact dynamic. It makes my head spin to think about it.

It's like reverse world where they are normal and everyone else is crazy - and a lot of people believe they are normal (it all looks normal on the outside - no one knows what is really going on . . .except a few and those people are marginalized as "crazy" . . .

I feel bad for a young relative who just seems so full of rage and confused - no suggestions can be made because it is too unbearable for him to face the truth about his parent . . . he doesn't want to hear it . . .yet he is so hurt. I want to reach out and "fix," in the sense of nurturing . . .but it's too painful for him. I have to stand by and watch him suffer, which kills me. I would like to suggest Alanon, but it is way too sore a subject to raise at the moment - he rejects all "help" -

There are other weird dynamics but I am constantly amazed how the A's come out smelling like roses - on the surface.

The young adult said one older relative had no repercussions from the heavy drinking all of these years - except for the stroke!!! See how things are twisted and minimized. Even a stroke is not considered a real effect of the alcoholism . . .

I was in a bad place today because I got lashed out on by the hurting young adult and I was not prepared . . . it's hard to always have to walk on eggshells and "be prepared" for rage and fury . . . my sin was that I had told the A they did not look good a few days ago and they said I was trashing them . . .when really I was just saying it out of concern and not wanting to collude with the "everything is fine" facade. The A told the young adult that I was just attacking them when that is not what happened at all . . . so the triangulation was inappropriate . . .I couldn't defend myself to the young adult because I didn't want to continue the triangulation and talk about the A to the young adult . . .

So sad.

Then, tonight, I decided to call a very distant relative and I didn't even know this person drank and they appeared to be drunk on the phone.

Are there any sober people left in the world?

I am taking care of myself now and praying for everyone concerned and trying not to feel "gotten" by the alcoholic. One part of me wants to call her and say, "How dare you tell "x" that I attacked you. What are you trying to do?" But I have FINALLY learned it is FUTILE to try to work things out or "talk sense" to an alcoholic. So I have learned something after all of these years!

Thanks for listening! I needed to vent, even though it probably did not make a whole lot of sense.

lillamy

I think that's fairly typical in alcoholic families, unfortunately.

I grew up with a family that included an aunt and uncle who are both alcoholics. One of their children has become the helper, who is always there to assist them, drove the father to work when he lost his license, etc. The other child married a woman who put her foot down and said, "We are not going to be part of this dysfunction; I did not marry your parents, and I'll be d**ned if I'll let them and their addiction run my life!"

Guess who's the evil witch in the family lore? Yup. Her. Because she doesn't care about family. And she's so high and mighty she can't be bothered.

And since I started admitting to people that my husband was an alcoholic, I have not met ONE person who's said, "Oh wow -- an alcoholic?" Everyone I've talked to has had a family member (father, grandmother, cousin, aunt, daughter) with addiction problems. It's outrageous, and heartbreaking.

posiesperson

I think that was the most difficult part of my childhood: the "mindf*&k." That is, what was presented as real was not, and what was dismissed as malarkey was some really terrible stuff. There was no alcoholism in my immediate family, but wow, the effects of the disease were and are very present.

posie

choublak

Interesting. Alcoholism runs in my mom's side of the family, she is one of 12 siblings. Eleven of them are on earth and one is in heaven after driving drunk and crashing his car into a tree. He was 24 years old. Six of the other males are recovering alcoholics. But the communication about alcoholism in our family has always been very open and honest. It simply is what it is.

My boyfriend, on the other hand, an alcoholic, has a family who is very hush-hush about the alcoholism that runs in his family. His paternal grandfather died an alcoholic in denial, of a heart attack caused by the effects of alcoholism, he was only 56. This grandfather was, and still is, the relative nobody talks about. My boyfriend actually told me that his grandfather had died of a "fluke heart attack". So very little had been said about the man. Then when my boyfriend's father learned how serious his (my BF) drinking problems were, he says "I can show you my father's death certificate, he died of an alcohol-related heart attack" and starts telling stories about how his father drove drunk and was in a head-on collision and fled the scene, and the police came to their house looking for him. My BF asks his dad, "why are you telling me all this just now?" and his dad was like, "well I didn't think the details were that important".

Alcoholism is genetic and families with the gene should talk about it. People in my mom's family wouldn't dare try and sugarcoat what alcoholism is and what it's about, probably out of respect for my one uncle who ended up getting himself killed because of it. Yet people in my bf's family, if this grandfather is even mentioned, say crap like, "oh, he died of a heart attack, but he had...other health problems". As if the "a-word" (alcoholic) is a bad word. It's just a little weird, to me.

seek

Yes, there is a definitely a stigma and a lot of sugarcoating, denial and secrets. My mother, a kind of a dry-drunk personality, but not literally . . . always identifies with the dysfunctional people in the family and "feels sorry for them." The healthy people are maligned or thought of as just "strong."

One of my sibs is a raging alkie and is in recovery. There is no doubting what his issue is, but the context is not acknowledged in the family and it is never discussed, at all, ever.

The alkies I affiliated with were all "functional" so it was not easy to identify, especially not in a hard-drinking/partying on weekends type of culture . . . just considered "normal." I guess getting DUI's is now considered "normal," because I see actual insurance commercials where that say, "If you don't have a DUI, we can get you super low rates."

I thought my children were just experiencing "normal" early adult fun times, had no idea anyone had wandered into the land of alcoholism . . .I wasn't exposed to it, so it was easy not to know . . . I thought the behavior I saw was just immaturity, selfishness, maybe narcissistic (and still may be) . . . didn't know it was alcoholism, but now, in retrospect, lots of the horribly mean things my daughter did I now think of as a mean drunk kind of thing . . .and I also thought she would "learn" to be different because she was exposed to a lot of healthy stuff (including Alateen as a young teenager) . . .

With her son, my grandson, I have no idea if he is just partying or heading in a dangerous direction . . . I feel terrible that he has been exposed to "stinking thinking" . . . If I had known this was going on, I would have tried, at least, to educate him . . . now it is too much of a sore subject and I am looked on as the crazy person and his mom is normal . . . I guess he feels he has to protect her and pick a side . . .don't know . . . but just a sad state of affairs, all-around.

No one talks about alcoholism in the general population that I know . . .if I say I am dealing with a family member who has a problem there is no real acknowledgement or sharing. I think people are ashamed or in denial.

choublak

Haha, I have seen those commercials...

SoaringSpirits

That's so typical in an alcoholic family. You are right, it makes your head spin.

The first time I ever met my husband's grandmother, she was complaining about her son (my husband's father) who was a raging alcoholic. She lived with her son (yuck). She sat and smoked one of the 4 packs of cigarettes she'd smoke daily, complaining bitterly about her drunken son and how he had ruined his life and hers with drinking.

When I offered a polite "Yes, it certainly sounds like he has a problem with alcohol, I'm so sorry," my husband's grandmother instantly turned on me and screamed (insert your best old southern granny 60-year chainsmoking voice here) "How dare you say that! My son has a RIGHT to drink!"

Huh? It was the first of many mind-numbing exchanges with members of my husband's family. Nice people, but way messed up. My father in law literally drank himself to death over the 19 years since this exchange, but nobody ever called him an alcoholic or attributed his demise or death in any way to booze. The disease is just so deeply entrenched in families, it really screws with people's minds. My husband is now also exercising his right to drink. Sad.