Aa=na
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newark,NJ
Posts: 62
Aa=na
What are the differences between working this step the NA way versus the AA? I am trying to work it the AA way but am not so into it? Basically my sponsor gave me sheets with boxes to put down resentments , my part in them, reasons, then I have to fill out fears of mine. Is the NA way the same?
Thanks
Thanks
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
I've been an NA member since I began doing step work, so I have no experience with step work in AA. But based on what I've read and heard, there is a difference. I thought you were an NA member that attended NA meetings? Why would an NA sponsor have you doing AA step work?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newark,NJ
Posts: 62
Hey Gmoney. My sponsor goes to both NA and AA (not uncommon in my area) he worked the steps in a 12 week AA workshop which he says helped him tremendously. He said he prefferred to work the steps the AA way. I said I didn't think that was for me but I would give it a try. We did 1 and 2 both ways. Am not sure if i'm gonna dump him as a sponsor or not. If he won't do the steps the NA way i prob will.
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
Oh...okay. I understand now. Have you read Step 4 in NA literature? That might give you an idea of how NA does it...or you can get yourself a Step Working Guide from an NA group or the ASC in your area.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
My first sponsor was AA, and my current one is NA. I am NA. I found the AA sheets confusing, but that may be due to how she instructed me. I was better able to address my issues using the NA method, step working guide, etc.
Whatever means allow you to get honest with yourself, ferret out the "exact nature of your wrongs" and move forward are the way to go.
Personally, I have found it most productive for me to choose a program that works for me, and to apply myself to it, rather than pick and choose etc. Because my nature is to dissect, and make excuses for not moving forward and working my steps, etc. Under the guise of "concerns" etc, I am just finding ways of avoiding facing reality. If I can draw attention off of MY part, and focus it on something outside of myself...I'll do it.
I just didn't understand the language etc of the AA worksheets and my sponsor couldn't really explain them. She said I didn't need to understand them, just do them.
I relapsed and she fired me and I started over with a new sponsor. Reading "how it works and why" helps.
Whatever means allow you to get honest with yourself, ferret out the "exact nature of your wrongs" and move forward are the way to go.
Personally, I have found it most productive for me to choose a program that works for me, and to apply myself to it, rather than pick and choose etc. Because my nature is to dissect, and make excuses for not moving forward and working my steps, etc. Under the guise of "concerns" etc, I am just finding ways of avoiding facing reality. If I can draw attention off of MY part, and focus it on something outside of myself...I'll do it.
I just didn't understand the language etc of the AA worksheets and my sponsor couldn't really explain them. She said I didn't need to understand them, just do them.
I relapsed and she fired me and I started over with a new sponsor. Reading "how it works and why" helps.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newark,NJ
Posts: 62
Yeah, what happenned with me wasn't so clear. I had an NA sponsor who moved out of the area and suggested one of his sponsees for me. I knew the guy and had seen him at some meetings. When I asked him to sponsor me I knew he went to some AA meetings but thought he was mostly NA. As time went on I learned the opposite. At first it didn't bother me, then when he started pushing the big book on me it became an issue. We worked steps 1 and 2 out of the NA workbook, step 3 was more of a discussion no real material used. For step 4 he gave me the sheets for the AA step and obviously this is an issue. I have learned recently he is just in AA no longer attends NA meetings. Obviously this have to be addressed. I have 6 months clean and he's been my sponsor since i hit 30 days and we get along well. It's a pain to have to change sponsors but i'll prob have to.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
True.AA is worked out of the big book of AA. No worksheets needed. More information is obtained through conversation. My experience. The steps can be done in 1 day, or broken up, for me there was no time to waste. First time was 2 days, second was 4 days in a 2 week period.
Evolving Addict
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New York State
Posts: 3,067
Sugarbear...after reading your post, I could help but recall some things I've read in NA literature in regard to information, conversation and rate of recovery. I won't qoute this one, but it talks about how the information we recieve (very often) can come from misinformed people. I've found this to be true before and during recovery. For me, this is why it is so very important to remember that we all come to an understanding of the program for ourselves..and my experience shows that the literature is best source for information about the NA program. Just like you say you had no time to waste, I was of the mindset that I had to get it right this time...no matter how long it took...my life depended on it.
In my early days of recovery I attended both AA and NA and met a number of AA members that promoted what is called in NA, "microwave step work." One such AA member would talk about how he guided a sponsee through all 12 steps during a walk home from a meeting! I found that facinating but wondered how an addict could be "searching and fearless" (as required in step 4) in such a brief amount of time...not to mention "thorough" as NA literature tells us we must be in all of the steps. Then there was the reading thats shared in every NA meeting that says, "This sounds like a big order, and we can't do it all at once. We didn't become addicted in one day, so remember - easy does it."
By the way...that AA oldtimer that took his sponsee thru the steps during a walk home - he drank again after 23 years sober. I saw him recently and he told me that he has 3 months from the bottle and starting all over. Is there a connection? I doubt it, but (for me) one thing is for sure: we differ in degree of sickness and rate of recovery. There's no perfect method of doing step work (regardless of fellowship). The real key is what we are willing to do and allowing others to help.
G
In my early days of recovery I attended both AA and NA and met a number of AA members that promoted what is called in NA, "microwave step work." One such AA member would talk about how he guided a sponsee through all 12 steps during a walk home from a meeting! I found that facinating but wondered how an addict could be "searching and fearless" (as required in step 4) in such a brief amount of time...not to mention "thorough" as NA literature tells us we must be in all of the steps. Then there was the reading thats shared in every NA meeting that says, "This sounds like a big order, and we can't do it all at once. We didn't become addicted in one day, so remember - easy does it."
By the way...that AA oldtimer that took his sponsee thru the steps during a walk home - he drank again after 23 years sober. I saw him recently and he told me that he has 3 months from the bottle and starting all over. Is there a connection? I doubt it, but (for me) one thing is for sure: we differ in degree of sickness and rate of recovery. There's no perfect method of doing step work (regardless of fellowship). The real key is what we are willing to do and allowing others to help.
G
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Newark,NJ
Posts: 62
A little Ironic, I actually got a strictly NA sponsor a few months after I posted this. He told me their is no official NA way to do step 4 and we worked it in a group using AA charts and the big book.
Grateful to be free
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,680
jive, I am glad that you arrived at a purposeful way to do step 4. That is what matters most.
In my experience of both addiction and recovery, in and out of 12 step...alcoholism and drug addiction are NOT the same. The issues of addiction is, but I think that alsoholism has some issues that are unique to alcoholism and that has shown up to me in the BB, AA meetings and the time during which I had an AA sponsor.
If we use the disease approach, then maybe it can be likened to the situation of there being various types of cancers or even diabetes. TypeI diabetes, type II, insalin dependent, etc, or cancers...some are slow growing, others aggressive etc.
Similar but not exactly the same type of treatments neccessary to address all cases.
If they were exactly the same, there would have been no reason or impetus for NA to have formed at all. But some differences were recognized and forming NA and NA literature addressed some of these.
I don't think there is a wrong way to recover. If what you do brings about recovery..then it's the right thing for you to be doing.
Arguing methodology is a stimulating pastime, but meanwhile some people lose themselves shopping for the ultimate recovery method.
There are miracle cures of physical disease and disability brought about by prayer, and I am sure that there are cases of liberation from addiction that stem from the same.
Some of us find relief in intense inpatient rehab, others by quieting life and communing with nature, exercise and diet changes.
My first sponsor was AA and was taking me through the steps the way she was taken through them. It didn't "take" with me.
the words in NA literature talking about it not being as important how we do it as the fact that we do it, helped me. I did as NA suggested, picked up paper, prayed for honesty and began to write.
For a long time I was derailed by the discussions of which method of recovery was "better". because of course I wanted to do the best one, the one most likely to fix me quick...and that "search" kept me from doing what I needed to be doing.
I still get confused when self appointed online sponsors rush in and start telling me how I should be doing my recovery. And when AA people and non 12 step people come in and critique my NA program...not THE NA program, but MY NA program.
When a person asks for advice and experience, that is one thing, but when one is just talking about their experience and others rush in and start taking my inventory and the inventory of my sponsor...I find that very hard to close my ears to. It's something I am working on. Praying for their recovery, and getting on with my own.
In my experience of both addiction and recovery, in and out of 12 step...alcoholism and drug addiction are NOT the same. The issues of addiction is, but I think that alsoholism has some issues that are unique to alcoholism and that has shown up to me in the BB, AA meetings and the time during which I had an AA sponsor.
If we use the disease approach, then maybe it can be likened to the situation of there being various types of cancers or even diabetes. TypeI diabetes, type II, insalin dependent, etc, or cancers...some are slow growing, others aggressive etc.
Similar but not exactly the same type of treatments neccessary to address all cases.
If they were exactly the same, there would have been no reason or impetus for NA to have formed at all. But some differences were recognized and forming NA and NA literature addressed some of these.
I don't think there is a wrong way to recover. If what you do brings about recovery..then it's the right thing for you to be doing.
Arguing methodology is a stimulating pastime, but meanwhile some people lose themselves shopping for the ultimate recovery method.
There are miracle cures of physical disease and disability brought about by prayer, and I am sure that there are cases of liberation from addiction that stem from the same.
Some of us find relief in intense inpatient rehab, others by quieting life and communing with nature, exercise and diet changes.
My first sponsor was AA and was taking me through the steps the way she was taken through them. It didn't "take" with me.
the words in NA literature talking about it not being as important how we do it as the fact that we do it, helped me. I did as NA suggested, picked up paper, prayed for honesty and began to write.
For a long time I was derailed by the discussions of which method of recovery was "better". because of course I wanted to do the best one, the one most likely to fix me quick...and that "search" kept me from doing what I needed to be doing.
I still get confused when self appointed online sponsors rush in and start telling me how I should be doing my recovery. And when AA people and non 12 step people come in and critique my NA program...not THE NA program, but MY NA program.
When a person asks for advice and experience, that is one thing, but when one is just talking about their experience and others rush in and start taking my inventory and the inventory of my sponsor...I find that very hard to close my ears to. It's something I am working on. Praying for their recovery, and getting on with my own.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: boston, ma
Posts: 1
step 4 difference? difference in general
I was in AA for 16 years. I did step 4 in an AWOL , a faster way of doing it.. and i was past of a big book step study group.. I was involved in another fellowship that my sponsor did steps out of the big book. I did a step 4 with him as well. At 16.5 years i went to an NA meeting and heard a clear message of NA recovery. I have recently completed the 4th step out of the step working guide. just as a little back ground
that being said.. in the beginning of the book. it says the only way to do the steps is alone.. and so.. i do NOT recommend just getting the step working guide and looking thru it.. I know people who have relapsed by doing this. you really should go thru it with a qualified person.
my experience and the experience of people who i value their opinion says that it really doesnt matter how you do the steps. as long as the person qualified. this means that if your sponsor in AA and has not done NA steps, that person has no business leading you thru the NA process. and if your sponsor in NA and really only NA, that person most likely will not be doing steps thru the big book. However if your sponsor is doing both fellowships. It is my experience that they usually think there is no real difference in the fellowships.
this is not true.
AA is a substance specific program. NA is about the disease of addiction. which means that we deal with obsession and compulsion and the MANY ways in which the disease of addiction can manifest.
drugs are only a symptom of the disease.
Working steps thru the NA step working guide is much more indepth than any other way I have done it.. it is slower yes. that is true. however the relief is more powerful. They say START the steps as soon as you are ready.. on the other hand THIS IS NOT A RACE!! not something to be rushed. You may run into something that you are not ready for. and if your are not ready, if you do not have a clear and strong enough relationship with your higher power AND your sponsor, u might find yourself in trouble. its important to trust your sponsor with this step. but that means to investigate their recovery.. how strong is it? or is it not strong? i find that people who do both fellowships can be more confused. Such as saying I am an alcoholic and addict.. IN NA we consider alcohol a drug, so the phrase alcoholic and an addict is redundant. its like saying I am a German Shepard and a dog.. or I am a ford and a car.
I trust my sponsor in a very deep way. I was able to share everything about myself with him.. but i was able to do this because i was able to work the first three steps in a deep way with him. and thru that process i came to a stronger relationship with my higher power.
Because my sponsor was more clear about the disease of addiction, he was able to guide me in a better way, in a way that was more than drugs, so more stuff was able to be revealed thru the fourth step process.
In NA we write all the steps, not just 4 and 8. in the NA literature, it says that we write the steps because it can unlock things that just talking or theorizing about will not do. You will have it written down in black and white, or whatever color pen u use.LOL.. stuff came out for me in my fourth step and writing the other steps that would not have come out just by talking about it. talking about things, you can say. well i didn't really say that. or i meant this/ that or whatever.. when u write the steps you can explore more thoroughly what u mean and you go deeper in order to reveal more things.
That never happened with the AA process because I didnt write steps 1, 2 and 3.
I AA they used to talk about and i believe its in the AA literature that we want to make a firm foundation. not on a bed of sand. so if u are just talking about the first three steps. I dont think its a very firm foundation. it can be firm, but maybe not firm enough.. its really up to the individual and the person sponsoring you. However.. this has just been my experience.
I did the 4th step in AA with some worksheets, but they werent very clear about what i was supposed to do. the guidance wasnt very strong either..IN NA with the step working guide and the other sponsor I had in NA the questions asked thru the 4th step were VERY clear. and so it became very thorough.
the 4th step is supposed to fearless and thorough. If it doesnt seem thorough enough to you, or not clear enough what is expected of you, or you dont trust your sponsor somehow. I would not go thru it .. its better to wait until you have a qualified person..
my other question.. just throwing it out there.. IF you are a member of NA why why why would you be doing steps thru AA literature? we have our own literature. NA has been around long enough that there are sufficient ways of doing it without AA literature.. it seems like it would be a confusing message. I am not anti AA by the way. I am simply pro NA.. and I do have experience with both fellowships as I have said.
According to NA literature the purpose of the fourth step is to clear up confusion and contradiction. therefore if you are in one fellowship and doing steps thru another fellowships literature, that would be conflicting and confusing..
thank u.
E
that being said.. in the beginning of the book. it says the only way to do the steps is alone.. and so.. i do NOT recommend just getting the step working guide and looking thru it.. I know people who have relapsed by doing this. you really should go thru it with a qualified person.
my experience and the experience of people who i value their opinion says that it really doesnt matter how you do the steps. as long as the person qualified. this means that if your sponsor in AA and has not done NA steps, that person has no business leading you thru the NA process. and if your sponsor in NA and really only NA, that person most likely will not be doing steps thru the big book. However if your sponsor is doing both fellowships. It is my experience that they usually think there is no real difference in the fellowships.
this is not true.
AA is a substance specific program. NA is about the disease of addiction. which means that we deal with obsession and compulsion and the MANY ways in which the disease of addiction can manifest.
drugs are only a symptom of the disease.
Working steps thru the NA step working guide is much more indepth than any other way I have done it.. it is slower yes. that is true. however the relief is more powerful. They say START the steps as soon as you are ready.. on the other hand THIS IS NOT A RACE!! not something to be rushed. You may run into something that you are not ready for. and if your are not ready, if you do not have a clear and strong enough relationship with your higher power AND your sponsor, u might find yourself in trouble. its important to trust your sponsor with this step. but that means to investigate their recovery.. how strong is it? or is it not strong? i find that people who do both fellowships can be more confused. Such as saying I am an alcoholic and addict.. IN NA we consider alcohol a drug, so the phrase alcoholic and an addict is redundant. its like saying I am a German Shepard and a dog.. or I am a ford and a car.
I trust my sponsor in a very deep way. I was able to share everything about myself with him.. but i was able to do this because i was able to work the first three steps in a deep way with him. and thru that process i came to a stronger relationship with my higher power.
Because my sponsor was more clear about the disease of addiction, he was able to guide me in a better way, in a way that was more than drugs, so more stuff was able to be revealed thru the fourth step process.
In NA we write all the steps, not just 4 and 8. in the NA literature, it says that we write the steps because it can unlock things that just talking or theorizing about will not do. You will have it written down in black and white, or whatever color pen u use.LOL.. stuff came out for me in my fourth step and writing the other steps that would not have come out just by talking about it. talking about things, you can say. well i didn't really say that. or i meant this/ that or whatever.. when u write the steps you can explore more thoroughly what u mean and you go deeper in order to reveal more things.
That never happened with the AA process because I didnt write steps 1, 2 and 3.
I AA they used to talk about and i believe its in the AA literature that we want to make a firm foundation. not on a bed of sand. so if u are just talking about the first three steps. I dont think its a very firm foundation. it can be firm, but maybe not firm enough.. its really up to the individual and the person sponsoring you. However.. this has just been my experience.
I did the 4th step in AA with some worksheets, but they werent very clear about what i was supposed to do. the guidance wasnt very strong either..IN NA with the step working guide and the other sponsor I had in NA the questions asked thru the 4th step were VERY clear. and so it became very thorough.
the 4th step is supposed to fearless and thorough. If it doesnt seem thorough enough to you, or not clear enough what is expected of you, or you dont trust your sponsor somehow. I would not go thru it .. its better to wait until you have a qualified person..
my other question.. just throwing it out there.. IF you are a member of NA why why why would you be doing steps thru AA literature? we have our own literature. NA has been around long enough that there are sufficient ways of doing it without AA literature.. it seems like it would be a confusing message. I am not anti AA by the way. I am simply pro NA.. and I do have experience with both fellowships as I have said.
According to NA literature the purpose of the fourth step is to clear up confusion and contradiction. therefore if you are in one fellowship and doing steps thru another fellowships literature, that would be conflicting and confusing..
thank u.
E
everything is already ok
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Melbourne Victoria Australia
Posts: 19,789
Old thread but a goodie!
There is time to do what we need to do, there is lawyas time. The thing for me is to be practicing the steps. I have never stopped since I first started some years ago and am here reading this as I am doing yet another step 4.
The thing about doing it from NA Literarure is that it applies to me and for me it is more detailed.
I never worry how long any step takes so long as I am in the process (practicing the steps).
There is time to do what we need to do, there is lawyas time. The thing for me is to be practicing the steps. I have never stopped since I first started some years ago and am here reading this as I am doing yet another step 4.
The thing about doing it from NA Literarure is that it applies to me and for me it is more detailed.
I never worry how long any step takes so long as I am in the process (practicing the steps).
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 94
Have you ever tried REBT to understand WHY you are an addict/alcoholic/whatever one can obsess about to actually change your behavior? There are steps to rationally assess the cost/benefit of anything that is excessive or controlling one's life. Of course the change has to come first in the mind -whatever method works. Oh, and it has to be for some desired goal (i.e. being a healthy happy member of society vs a wasted selfish destructive scumbag)
Modern Cognitive Behavioral Therapy did not really get started until the late 50's or early 60's with Beck and Ellis (each one claimed inception) Anyway, it's just a more superior method of self help and concrete analysis of one's problem behavior.Oh Well (favorite song by Peter Green) - covered by many many artists.
Modern Cognitive Behavioral Therapy did not really get started until the late 50's or early 60's with Beck and Ellis (each one claimed inception) Anyway, it's just a more superior method of self help and concrete analysis of one's problem behavior.Oh Well (favorite song by Peter Green) - covered by many many artists.
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