Do I forgive Blackout Cheating?
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 8
Do I forgive Blackout Cheating?
Last Friday night, my partner went out with his friend Alice. They had drinks and got drunk. I am a male and my partner is a male as well!!
They got really drunk and at the bar, Alice met a guy and he wanted to take her home.
My Partner was with them so he went over too.
They all did a line of Cocaine. My partner does not usually take drugs.
He doesn't drink all the time but when he does he doesn't stop and has blackouts.
Alice started sleeping with the random guy and my partner said he had a blackout and hardly remembers the night after the club but he keeps getting flashes and he remembers being naked. Watching Alice having sex with this man. He crawled into the bed with them. He kissed Alice even though girls do nothing for him. He than proceeded to touch the male's private probably in hopes the guy would do something with him. That's the just of it.
He came clean to me about it five days later. (after testing the waters and revealing a little at a time and a few lies in between until the water was safe!) He said, he was trying to piece it all together and that he didn't want to tell me. He had to!
The relationship before hand is picture perfect! We have an amazing place together. We're always together. We are best friends. Both Monogamous and we both love each other very much. I just about broke it off even though no sex or oral sex was involved with him. He cried out loud that he told me the truth because he loves me and wants to get through this together. His mom sat me down and said that on her side, when they drink, blackouts happen so she has not drank in over thirty years and that her son (my bf) shouldn't drink if he blackouts.
I feel like I can forgive....What do I do? I do love him and he was honest and sincere. He said he wants to spend his life with me and will do anything to earn my trust back.
Does anyone know if blackout cheating is a valid excuse? He's working on not drinking at all now because of this.
Yours Truly, AC
They got really drunk and at the bar, Alice met a guy and he wanted to take her home.
My Partner was with them so he went over too.
They all did a line of Cocaine. My partner does not usually take drugs.
He doesn't drink all the time but when he does he doesn't stop and has blackouts.
Alice started sleeping with the random guy and my partner said he had a blackout and hardly remembers the night after the club but he keeps getting flashes and he remembers being naked. Watching Alice having sex with this man. He crawled into the bed with them. He kissed Alice even though girls do nothing for him. He than proceeded to touch the male's private probably in hopes the guy would do something with him. That's the just of it.
He came clean to me about it five days later. (after testing the waters and revealing a little at a time and a few lies in between until the water was safe!) He said, he was trying to piece it all together and that he didn't want to tell me. He had to!
The relationship before hand is picture perfect! We have an amazing place together. We're always together. We are best friends. Both Monogamous and we both love each other very much. I just about broke it off even though no sex or oral sex was involved with him. He cried out loud that he told me the truth because he loves me and wants to get through this together. His mom sat me down and said that on her side, when they drink, blackouts happen so she has not drank in over thirty years and that her son (my bf) shouldn't drink if he blackouts.
I feel like I can forgive....What do I do? I do love him and he was honest and sincere. He said he wants to spend his life with me and will do anything to earn my trust back.
Does anyone know if blackout cheating is a valid excuse? He's working on not drinking at all now because of this.
Yours Truly, AC
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
As a recovering alcoholic who blacked out and who cheated, I don't think blacking out is a "get off free" card.
My first husband divorced me, and rightfully so.
Alcohol is no excuse.
How much do you want to lower your bar of standards?
Cheating is a deal-breaker for me.
My first husband divorced me, and rightfully so.
Alcohol is no excuse.
How much do you want to lower your bar of standards?
Cheating is a deal-breaker for me.
Journey To Me
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Kyle, Texas
Posts: 395
As the others have said. Alcohol or not there is no excuse for him to place himself in such a situation that would allow a total lack of judgment. You have to be very honest with yourself. If you honestly feel you can forgive him and move on with no resentments then maybe it is worth a try. However, Freedom does bring up a good point. How much is too much? Make yourself some boundaries. What is the line that if crossed would be too far? Remember you cannot change him. What are you willing to live with? After setting those boundaries for yourself stay firm on them otherwise you may easily lose yourself in unhappiness not realizing how you had gotten in that place.
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I guess the question is -- do you?
Because what it all boils down to is -- you're the one who are going to have to live with the consequences of your decision. Nobody else is.
"I was drunk" is an excuse that doesn't work for me. My AXH threatened to kill me and our children when he was drunk. I am of the firm opinion that while alcohol certainly removes inhibitions, and while long-term alcohol use certainly rots your brain, it does not cause you to do things that are contrary to your personality/beliefs/traits/whathaveyou.
You can't get me drunk enough to cheat on the person I love or threaten to harm my children. It's not possible.
What I see in your situation is a good opportunity for you to have a talk about what you expect out of the person you're going to share the rest of your life with. And if I had that talk, I would most definitely include "I expect my husband to not drink if he has a tendency to do really dumbass things when he drinks."
But even beyond that -- I don't know of people who drink until they black out without having an addiction problem. And that's what I would start by addressing. And from where I'm sitting now, that conversation would include stating my boundaries: I will not be involved with an actively drinking alcoholic.
Because what it all boils down to is -- you're the one who are going to have to live with the consequences of your decision. Nobody else is.
"I was drunk" is an excuse that doesn't work for me. My AXH threatened to kill me and our children when he was drunk. I am of the firm opinion that while alcohol certainly removes inhibitions, and while long-term alcohol use certainly rots your brain, it does not cause you to do things that are contrary to your personality/beliefs/traits/whathaveyou.
You can't get me drunk enough to cheat on the person I love or threaten to harm my children. It's not possible.
What I see in your situation is a good opportunity for you to have a talk about what you expect out of the person you're going to share the rest of your life with. And if I had that talk, I would most definitely include "I expect my husband to not drink if he has a tendency to do really dumbass things when he drinks."
But even beyond that -- I don't know of people who drink until they black out without having an addiction problem. And that's what I would start by addressing. And from where I'm sitting now, that conversation would include stating my boundaries: I will not be involved with an actively drinking alcoholic.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 8
Thank you guys so much for your posts 
I never realized that his drinking really was an issue until recently. A few years ago I know he had some drug issues but has been clean since of course this incident.
I've known he is not himself when he drinks. Not at all. Night and day personality change.
I'm just torn but I thank you all for your comments
I never realized that his drinking really was an issue until recently. A few years ago I know he had some drug issues but has been clean since of course this incident.I've known he is not himself when he drinks. Not at all. Night and day personality change.
I'm just torn but I thank you all for your comments
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
in my experience successful relationships are a very individual thing: there are no "shoulds". I have known people who outwardly seem to have very sucesssful relationships where either one or both partners are not monogamous, either with the overt or "turning a blind eye" stance of the other partner. Of course only they could say if the relationships were really successful for them, outward appearances are not the whole story.
forgiveness sounds like somethig we do for the "offender" but in reality it is a letting go of this bothering us, it is for us. it is different to absolution or forgetting. it also has nothing to do with whether we find the behaviour tolerable or whether we trust them not to do it again. so if you are asking whether him being drunk is a reasonabke excuse and means it won't happen again? well that rather depends on whether he gets drunk again, no? if you are asking whether you can tolerate, get over, and trust that he won't do this again, or live with the uncertainty (or possibility) that he will, only you can decide that: you get to define what a succesful relationship means to you, and whether this is a deal-breaker for you or not. there are no "shoulds" where that is involved.
I have cheated in a past relationship and FWIW, although alcohol was involved, I knew what I was doing, I didn't forget I was in a relationship, I felt aggrieved (because my partner was cheating openly) and there was an element of "f*ck it - I don't care about the consequences", I am entitled to this fun now.
forgiveness sounds like somethig we do for the "offender" but in reality it is a letting go of this bothering us, it is for us. it is different to absolution or forgetting. it also has nothing to do with whether we find the behaviour tolerable or whether we trust them not to do it again. so if you are asking whether him being drunk is a reasonabke excuse and means it won't happen again? well that rather depends on whether he gets drunk again, no? if you are asking whether you can tolerate, get over, and trust that he won't do this again, or live with the uncertainty (or possibility) that he will, only you can decide that: you get to define what a succesful relationship means to you, and whether this is a deal-breaker for you or not. there are no "shoulds" where that is involved.
I have cheated in a past relationship and FWIW, although alcohol was involved, I knew what I was doing, I didn't forget I was in a relationship, I felt aggrieved (because my partner was cheating openly) and there was an element of "f*ck it - I don't care about the consequences", I am entitled to this fun now.
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England
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I kinda think most people deserve a second chance. But that's it...just one.
But every situation and solution is different. It doesn't really matter what anyone else says or thinks, it will be down to you to decide if this man is worth giving a second chance to.
The fact that he told you means he's at least willing to be honest. Do you feel like he's being honest with you and is he accepting of your reaction to this news or trying to manipulate your reactions?
But every situation and solution is different. It doesn't really matter what anyone else says or thinks, it will be down to you to decide if this man is worth giving a second chance to.
The fact that he told you means he's at least willing to be honest. Do you feel like he's being honest with you and is he accepting of your reaction to this news or trying to manipulate your reactions?
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
I'll add this to the great thoughts already offered... I too used to say that my stbxAH "wasn't himself" when he was drinking.... but truth be told that WAS still him. It was him, being addicted, under the influence, choosing a lifestyle that was incompatible with what he claimed he wanted.
So, your bf, who blacks out when he drinks and uses drugs (even just once) clearly has a problem and his behaviors when he's under the influence aren't solely bc of the substances. You don't accidentally cheat when you're drunk/high. That's something you have to have some level of awareness about doing.
I think that as others have said it boils down to what can you live with? Chances are this isn't the first or last time this will happen and chances are also that whatever blackouts you think you know about there are probably many more that have occured that you don't know of. And I say this with empathy bc I thought I knew my AH so so well and it turns out that for as much as I thought I saw it all, there was so so so much more going on behind the scenes.
Take care of yourself...
So, your bf, who blacks out when he drinks and uses drugs (even just once) clearly has a problem and his behaviors when he's under the influence aren't solely bc of the substances. You don't accidentally cheat when you're drunk/high. That's something you have to have some level of awareness about doing.
I think that as others have said it boils down to what can you live with? Chances are this isn't the first or last time this will happen and chances are also that whatever blackouts you think you know about there are probably many more that have occured that you don't know of. And I say this with empathy bc I thought I knew my AH so so well and it turns out that for as much as I thought I saw it all, there was so so so much more going on behind the scenes.
Take care of yourself...
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Chicago
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I'm not sure I agree with the "did it once probably did it before / will do it again" theory. On two occasions in the years when I was in the depth of my own drinking life, I cheated (well technically we were broken up both times). Both times I was completely blackout drunk, the second time for two days straight. To this day, my memories of those events are swiss cheese.
After the second time, three years after the first, my AW (gf at the time) made it beyond crystal clear that she would not tolerate it again. I knew it was true, and I also knew that if I continued drinking that way I could not promise her "never again." I don't blame the drinking for my character defect but I do know that I am highly impulsive and do very stupid things when I am in that state. My fear of a next time, and the inevitable consequences - and the complete disgust I felt with myself and what I had done (for reasons not worth discussing here) - were big motivating factors in me getting sober. I never, ever wanted to be that out of control again. That, my friend, was my bottom.
I'm not sure what my point is, except that I hope your BF does some soul searching to decide what has to change so that he can say with confidence "never again." Frankly, if he has blackouts, I agree with the pp's that say "never again" means never, ever drinking to that point. Whatever deep or not-so-deep psychological issues caused him to do what he did, the only thing he can really control are his own actions and the only way he can remain always in control of his actions is to get sober. I knew it, he probably knows it too.
What he chooses to do now is out of your control.
That's all I got.
After the second time, three years after the first, my AW (gf at the time) made it beyond crystal clear that she would not tolerate it again. I knew it was true, and I also knew that if I continued drinking that way I could not promise her "never again." I don't blame the drinking for my character defect but I do know that I am highly impulsive and do very stupid things when I am in that state. My fear of a next time, and the inevitable consequences - and the complete disgust I felt with myself and what I had done (for reasons not worth discussing here) - were big motivating factors in me getting sober. I never, ever wanted to be that out of control again. That, my friend, was my bottom.
I'm not sure what my point is, except that I hope your BF does some soul searching to decide what has to change so that he can say with confidence "never again." Frankly, if he has blackouts, I agree with the pp's that say "never again" means never, ever drinking to that point. Whatever deep or not-so-deep psychological issues caused him to do what he did, the only thing he can really control are his own actions and the only way he can remain always in control of his actions is to get sober. I knew it, he probably knows it too.
What he chooses to do now is out of your control.
That's all I got.
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Garfild- Just to be clear, I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but in my own observations/opinion, poor behavior choices usually aren't isolated incidents. And even if the bf doesn't remember it, I'm guessing if blackout style drinking is something that happens more than never, then there's a good possibility that cheating under the influence could well have occurred more than this one time that he remembers. I don't think cheating is an accident and I don't think one gets to a point of having the cheating occur without a great deal of stinking thinking leading up to it (which in my mind is probably the real culprit of the cheating behavior).
I am sure there are people who cheat once or twice and never do it again and I am equally sure that in a majority of cases it happens far more often than that.
And to the OP, even if it was "just one time" it's okay if that's one too many times for you. Cheating is a non-negotiable in my book- blackout or not and you have every right to be upset.
I am sure there are people who cheat once or twice and never do it again and I am equally sure that in a majority of cases it happens far more often than that.
And to the OP, even if it was "just one time" it's okay if that's one too many times for you. Cheating is a non-negotiable in my book- blackout or not and you have every right to be upset.
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Been there 2 rotten times with binged out his mind ABF some years ago. Forgave and 3 years later had next saga spewed at me. Took 6 months for me to speak to him after that.
Told him, "try for a 3rd time and it will be hell, mayhem and your worst nightmare come true." The feelings of such misery and unworthiness, being put aside for a creepy, totally stupid, permanently sloshed bike to hundreds of low life must be a fingernail from suicide.
I wait for the day or night he picks up a drink and it starts the usual chain reaction, and that precise minute will be the actual time I will be totally free of him and his problems.
Told him, "try for a 3rd time and it will be hell, mayhem and your worst nightmare come true." The feelings of such misery and unworthiness, being put aside for a creepy, totally stupid, permanently sloshed bike to hundreds of low life must be a fingernail from suicide.
I wait for the day or night he picks up a drink and it starts the usual chain reaction, and that precise minute will be the actual time I will be totally free of him and his problems.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy 
And to the OP, even if it was "just one time" it's okay if that's one too many times for you. Cheating is a non-negotiable in my book- blackout or not and you have every right to be upset.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Originally Posted by Jadmack25
I wait for the day or night he picks up a drink and it starts the usual chain reaction, and that precise minute will be the actual time I will be totally free of him and his problems.
Jadmack, I wish that for you, I have only the vaguest idea of the harms I caused but at the time I needed to change and I needed someone to force my hand, so to speak. The fear of destroying my life was enough for me.
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also - on the blackout front - whilst soemone's recollection of things afterwards may be very sketchy, that doesn't mean that they weren't completely aware of their actions at the time.
The ability to mentally process and make decisions is entirely different to the ability to accurately file those actions as memories and successfully retrieve them. my ex could hold lucid converstations, recognise people he knew, remember where he lived and navigate his way home, and do many other things that required a fairly high order of functioning, but be unable to recollect those things later. people who have memory disorders are able to undertake complex decision making processes.
The ability to mentally process and make decisions is entirely different to the ability to accurately file those actions as memories and successfully retrieve them. my ex could hold lucid converstations, recognise people he knew, remember where he lived and navigate his way home, and do many other things that required a fairly high order of functioning, but be unable to recollect those things later. people who have memory disorders are able to undertake complex decision making processes.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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It is SO HARD from out here, for any of us to say what is forgivable or not forgivable. I'm personally in the "cheating is a dealbreaker" group. I can't see any relationship working when there is no trust.
What I am learning here (and wishing it didn't have to be so glaringly, blatantly clear)..that with an alcoholic, dishonestly (even non deliberate) is a core problem. If nothing else, an alcoholic is lying to THEMSELF, when they block out/ deny the severity of their problem. There is a mindblowing disconnect...they blackout, they have 6 DUIs, but will swear up and down, that they don't have a problem, they are just a social drinker, what's the big deal?? In order to defend what they do, the only option seems to be, deflecting blame for either incidents or ongoing behavior..to the closest available person.
If my xabf is not honest with me, then the burden falls back to me, to define if it is a one time transgression, which I might "forgive"...or it can be my own denial of what is REALLY GOING ON. You are the only person who can answer that, for yourself.
I would also be asking myself the brutal question, not of the explicit details of who did/did not kiss/have sex with who...BUT who made the choice of picking up that drink, in the first place, and thus winding up in that room? If one isn't drinking, then no blackout happens.
They say nothing stops an alcoholic until they make the choice to admit to the problem, and what the full consequences have already been. They have to hit rock bottom. And get help, FOR THEMSELVES. Not for you or me. Is this really his rock bottom? or yours, in terms of what you accept or don't?
I hear your pain and confusion, and trust me, I am living it as well, no matter what the details are. And I am sending you a hug, that you find your own right answer.
What I am learning here (and wishing it didn't have to be so glaringly, blatantly clear)..that with an alcoholic, dishonestly (even non deliberate) is a core problem. If nothing else, an alcoholic is lying to THEMSELF, when they block out/ deny the severity of their problem. There is a mindblowing disconnect...they blackout, they have 6 DUIs, but will swear up and down, that they don't have a problem, they are just a social drinker, what's the big deal?? In order to defend what they do, the only option seems to be, deflecting blame for either incidents or ongoing behavior..to the closest available person.
If my xabf is not honest with me, then the burden falls back to me, to define if it is a one time transgression, which I might "forgive"...or it can be my own denial of what is REALLY GOING ON. You are the only person who can answer that, for yourself.
I would also be asking myself the brutal question, not of the explicit details of who did/did not kiss/have sex with who...BUT who made the choice of picking up that drink, in the first place, and thus winding up in that room? If one isn't drinking, then no blackout happens.
They say nothing stops an alcoholic until they make the choice to admit to the problem, and what the full consequences have already been. They have to hit rock bottom. And get help, FOR THEMSELVES. Not for you or me. Is this really his rock bottom? or yours, in terms of what you accept or don't?
I hear your pain and confusion, and trust me, I am living it as well, no matter what the details are. And I am sending you a hug, that you find your own right answer.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Wow!! I thank all of you so much for your words of advice and your wisdome. Bless you all!!
At this point in time I have everyone's opinion in consideration and engraved in my mind so that I don't become naieve.
We went to a Couples Counsellor/Psychologist yesterday.
In the session, he fully admitted to having a drinking problem and he wants to seek help.
I'm 29, he's 25 and he's in University currently taking Psychology.
It took him this situation to realize that I was basically going to leave him.
He said he is willing to fix everything. When he is sober, he is very compassionate, caring, loving and never violent. When he drinks he is sloppy, sometimes does things he wont even remember. One night after a night out on the town we went for a late night bite and the next morning he didn't even remember us being there. I have witnessed the blackouts first hand. I should have stepped up and said something sooner. I guess I was in denial as well.
He has asked me for help. I want to help him. I am only allowing this one time because I left many others before that have done similar things and I loved those people too but I love myself more to destroy my life over and over.
I am going to give him this one chance and opportunity and if there are any slip ups, I know that his apology wasn't sincere but if he continues on they path of not drinking, continues to succeed in his Masters at University and continues to show me the love he does everyday, than I will be there.
I have a big heart, a very forgiving heart.
Since I have agreed to stay, I have also agreed to not be vindictive (which is not me), and also to not bring this up so we can focus on the future and not a night of bad decisions.
I am not a perfect Human being. I have made errors as well but I too believe if all the other times, nothing happened (he is with me at all times usually except that night) and when he is sober we are like best friends. Laughing, loving, caring...peaceful, I will be there now to help him.
The psychologist will be helping us through this ordeal as well as support from friends and family (he told everyone, his family friends because he wants everyone to help him in any way they can) i.e. not offering him a drink and just being supportive.
Much Love to all of you for your words and for your stories and experiences. I know every case is very different but my guard is up and if it is let down....I love myself enough to not endure that pain.
At this point in time I have everyone's opinion in consideration and engraved in my mind so that I don't become naieve.
We went to a Couples Counsellor/Psychologist yesterday.
In the session, he fully admitted to having a drinking problem and he wants to seek help.
I'm 29, he's 25 and he's in University currently taking Psychology.
It took him this situation to realize that I was basically going to leave him.
He said he is willing to fix everything. When he is sober, he is very compassionate, caring, loving and never violent. When he drinks he is sloppy, sometimes does things he wont even remember. One night after a night out on the town we went for a late night bite and the next morning he didn't even remember us being there. I have witnessed the blackouts first hand. I should have stepped up and said something sooner. I guess I was in denial as well.
He has asked me for help. I want to help him. I am only allowing this one time because I left many others before that have done similar things and I loved those people too but I love myself more to destroy my life over and over.
I am going to give him this one chance and opportunity and if there are any slip ups, I know that his apology wasn't sincere but if he continues on they path of not drinking, continues to succeed in his Masters at University and continues to show me the love he does everyday, than I will be there.
I have a big heart, a very forgiving heart.
Since I have agreed to stay, I have also agreed to not be vindictive (which is not me), and also to not bring this up so we can focus on the future and not a night of bad decisions.
I am not a perfect Human being. I have made errors as well but I too believe if all the other times, nothing happened (he is with me at all times usually except that night) and when he is sober we are like best friends. Laughing, loving, caring...peaceful, I will be there now to help him.
The psychologist will be helping us through this ordeal as well as support from friends and family (he told everyone, his family friends because he wants everyone to help him in any way they can) i.e. not offering him a drink and just being supportive.
Much Love to all of you for your words and for your stories and experiences. I know every case is very different but my guard is up and if it is let down....I love myself enough to not endure that pain.
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Justa-
I had resigned myself to my exAH drinking but was not addressing it either.
The affair ripped off the band-aid of denial.
We started marriage counseling, and I already had individual counseling in place. His affair was what (thankfully) got me into the doors of Al-Anon.
All of them helped me immensely. I did a lot of reading on addiction, and affairs. I had boundaries (finally) in place for myself, and though we are not together any longer it feels good to me that I tried as hard as I could. When a boundary was broken there was no turning back and it was over.
Having places to vent just for me was very important as I was trying to work out things for me and for my relationship. I wish you the best.
I had resigned myself to my exAH drinking but was not addressing it either.
The affair ripped off the band-aid of denial.
We started marriage counseling, and I already had individual counseling in place. His affair was what (thankfully) got me into the doors of Al-Anon.
All of them helped me immensely. I did a lot of reading on addiction, and affairs. I had boundaries (finally) in place for myself, and though we are not together any longer it feels good to me that I tried as hard as I could. When a boundary was broken there was no turning back and it was over.
Having places to vent just for me was very important as I was trying to work out things for me and for my relationship. I wish you the best.
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I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, but here is how I would handle it if someone pulled this on me. I would say to them:
You are blaming the cheating on alcohol and drugs instead of yourself? Very well, then, I can handle that, but realize what you have just done by blaming it on the booze and drugs: you have permanently rescinded your drinking and using license if you want me to stay with you.
I have only one question for you: What is your plan for your future use of alcohol and drugs? Are you going to drink or use again in this lifetime, or are you not?
If not, I'm willing to overlook this, but if you have so much as one sip, line, puff, or "relapse" you are back on the hook one-hundred percent, and this relationship is over, no second chances. The same goes for any further cheating.
The choice is yours.
I have only one question for you: What is your plan for your future use of alcohol and drugs? Are you going to drink or use again in this lifetime, or are you not?
If not, I'm willing to overlook this, but if you have so much as one sip, line, puff, or "relapse" you are back on the hook one-hundred percent, and this relationship is over, no second chances. The same goes for any further cheating.
The choice is yours.
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