Tuffgirl

Someone give me the big you-know-what slap here because I am engaging in the crazy train ride of trying to reason and rationalize with an alcoholic.

Seriously - tough love PUUUULEASE!

Someone come up here and kick my butt for not taking my own advice and asking myself WHY AM I STILL TALKING?!!! @%&&$~!

Got.to.shut.up.now.



PS this sucks, did I mention that?!!!

dollydo

Maybe you have learned your lesson? No contact is put in place to protect you, to allow you to heal, to become emotionally stable, to move on with your life in harmony and peace.

You are getting divorced, you have any attorney, so all conversations should be handled by the attorneys. You have nothing that you need to talk to him about, it's over.

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and go no contact.....for you....

KittyCopes

Walk away...if you are having an argument/discussion/debate with an A who has been drinking, you are talking to a crazy person who is not listening to you, not saying what HE means and probably won't even remember the conversation. It is a waste of time and breath and only opens you up to hearing things he probably doesn't mean and that will stick with you for ages.

Close the door, put on ear buds, get out of the house...but walk away.

HUGS.

Kitty

GettingBy

WAIST?!?! Why Am I Still Talking!!! I love it!! Good one Tuff Girl!

I had a huge AhA moment yesterday. I learned so much about myself. I saw "me". I saw my hurt/pain - and began to finally see how deep my pain ran. And that it started from childhood!! Long before AH. Huh, surprise, surprise.

And then it all started to make sense. All this time - I've been searching for someone/something to heal me, make me feel better, make me feel loved and worthy. I've been looking for external validation - but it's nobody else's job to heal me. It's got to come from within me.

And it hit me... I've been looking for AH to make me feel better... which he is not capable of doing. He's hurt/broken/scared/sick lost himself. In fact, his brokeness and the way he has treated me has done more harm than good for me (well, except for the fact that his behavior/treatment got me into AL-anon - THANK GOD!).

So, when I "right fight"... I'm looking for validation of my opinions. That I'm smart. I'm capable. I'm right. Now, that's not to say that you should never have a discussion about right/wrong/etc - you just shouldn't have it with someone who is not capable of listening/reasoning. An active alcoholic, as I have come to understand, is in a perpetual state of feeling "under attack." The default reaction is to be defensive, deflect, and attack back. And there isn't a g-d thing I am going to do to change that. I can have love, compassion, show understanding for their thoughts/opinions... but they are probably still going to default to "I'm right. You're wrong."

So... I accept. I let go... and I move on. Ah, then I am at peace again.

Thanks for letting me share,
Shannon

Carol Star

4 years post divorce I am reading all my recovery books again- Women Who Love Too Much- whoa an eyeopener.....p. 254 Cultivate what I need for MYSELF..... oh yeah......cultivate my playful side.....p.255 " the less you need a partner the better partner you become and the healthier one you will attract....."...."and be attracted to...".

Carol Star

My doc said being with an alcoholic is like "having a beautiful, red, racecar with no engine in it...."

Freedom1990

Unfasten your seatbelt and get off the ride.

Carol Star

Sorry I have had some caffiene; but here is more from Women Who Love Too Much- 1.Go for help, 2.Make your recovery #1., 3. Find a support group, 4. Develop your spirituality with daily practice, 5. Stop managing and controlling him, 6. Learn not to get hooked into the games, 7. Courageously face your own shortcomings and problems, 8. Cultivate what needs to be developed in yourself, 9. Become selfish, 10. Share with others what you have experienced and learned.....and of course it applies to our fellow SR FELLOWS too....

wanttobehealthy

I've told myself the following when I am tempted lately to try and have anything resembling a sane conversation with AH or when I feel the urge to defend, rationalize, justify etc....

I tell myself that it's normal to be inclined, as a sane, rational person, to want to have a sane rational conversation with someone else. But then I remind myself that it has NEVER worked in the past to try and have that type of talk with AH and that the nature of the disease makes it (whether he drinks or not) so that he can't have a rational conversation.

I am not saying I can always stop myself in the moment BUT when I do stop and tell myself these facts above, it helps jolt me out of "but I MUST say this to him" mode...

Big hugs being sent your way... It's hard, I know...

Tuffgirl

Thanks everyone. I know it. But I still get hooked. He hurt me and he caught me off guard and I am reeling and its ok to feel that. I know I don't need to continue to try to express myself to someone who doesn't care. I am shutting up now.

I promise.

Hold me to it, SR friends! This thread I am bookmarking for daily read-throughs.

Thumper

:codiepolice

Some day it will click and then all those words will just be :chatter wind in your ear. They won't stick. It is a process. I manage it only because I mostly still refuse to talk to him. We almost always just email when we need to exchange info.

Here is a cute puppy to make your day today a teeny tiny bit lighter.

Linkmeister

It happens to the best of us, TuffGirl.

When I was shutting down my computer last night, an email from the ex slipped through my security wall. Yes, I deleted it without reading but the email itself triggered me for the rest of the night. Stupid maybe, but it goes to show we can still get hooked in.

I kept telling myself (and the pup) that it was only an email, that I didn't read it, that I have other more important things in life to be concerned with, that his actions no longer rule mine or my life. Sure, it was unsettling but today is another day and I keep telling myself that he has no control over me.........

Hugs from me & the pup coming your way........

searchbug

maybe some of it is conditioning to us, that as normal persons (usually women but not always)... that problems are solved by discussion. At least that is how I see things.
But discussion involves both logic and honesty on both parts. And it is very hard to see how most (probably all) alcoholics have neither of those tools in their life. They live by denial that alcohol screws them up, and the thinking process.
Catch 22. I have big issues with it, myself.

CatsPajamas

When I was first making the huge changes to disentangle myself from my marriage to a very unhealthy man, I had to have constant reminders to do things differently.

I actually put sticky notes everywhere - by the phone, my computer, even the front door. Each was a reminder that my ex was toxic for me and any communication was going to be harmful.

One of my stickies had these words:

Oh
Wow
Really
Huh
You Don't Say
How 'Bout that

For those times I had to have a conversation with him about something. Those 6 statements kept me from engaging, and from being sucked in.

Good luck. Change takes time, but there is light and life and happiness and healthy stuff on the other side!

Linkmeister

I have a copy of an Alateen reading by my computer, by my phone and in my wallet, copied REALLY large so I can see it-all about fishing, baiting the hook, catching a fish, etc. It hit home with me because I do love to fish.

It reminds me that I don't need to take the bait from the EX. It has helped and still helps me not to get "hooked" into his drama.

Carol Star

By the grace of God I just got to a point of not wanting to hurt myself further by engaging with the XAH. I just stopped. Just for me. One day, email, text, phonecall at a time until it just stopped. It stopped.

Tuffgirl

I am slowly recognizing the value in stopping because I am only hurting myself and we are talking sideways anyway, so trying to talk is absolutely pointless. My kids and I have been through enough.

I am debating now the "do I pursue some financial return" or "do I walk away with my debt and call it a painful and expensive lesson learned"? and I am giving myself some time to think about it. I will not be rushed into life altering decisions...

PS I am still feeling dizzy but now its because this little puppy is running circles through my house at top speed - and that is a delightful dizzy feeling! ; )

BobbyJ

Rationalizing with an alcoholic.:rotfxko:rotfxko:rotfxko:rotfxko

Now just teach that puppy of yours to talk and you will have it made!

xoxoxo

LaTeeDa

TG, you are wise to give yourself time contemplate it. Being reactionary is usually costly when it comes to divorce.

My advice, for what it's worth, is to pursue what you are entitled to under the laws of your state. Nothing more, nothing less. Trying to get more in order to get revenge is tempting. Giving up what you are legally entitled to in order to avoid conflict can also be tempting. Neither will likely be best for you in the long run. That's just my two cents.

L

Tuffgirl

Part of me - a big part actually - wants to accept way less than I know I deserve just to get out from underneath this drama and go on with my life. Is that bad? I can afford to do it that way - just sign, walk, and never look back. One credit card to pay off. Never have to lay eyes on him again.

The other part says - no - go after what you are rightfully owed and negotiate. But heck, how does one negotiate with an angry alcoholic??!!!