Social drinking vs Problem Drinking
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Social drinking vs Problem Drinking
Hello All,
I am new to this forum and seek some help from people who might be able to understand where I am coming from. Being a 24 year old who does not drink or do drugs with alcholic parents leaves me feeling pretty alone. It's typical for a 24 year old to drink with friends but its never been my norm.
I started dating a wonderful guy about a year ago. Things are great between us except one major thing. He "enjoys " drinking. He grew up in a family where its bloody marys in the am, afternoon cocktails, wine with dinner, party drinking at night. I grew up in the chaos of a family of alcholics that turned me off from the very idea of drinking often.
It has been something of an issue between us from the get go. He had many nights out where he drank to the point of blacking out and I had to be the one there to help. An absolute memory lane trip to my childhood. We had many talks about it. We recently moved into a new apartment and his sister is currently staying with us while she finishes up college. She too will drink every single day off she has.
I can not wrap my head around what is harmless and not worth worrying about and what is a problem. I feel a twinge of annoyance anytime we are having a great day together and he will say " lets grab a drink" or " i'd love a martini tonight when i get home" For me it has never been a source of relaxing. I dont understand it. When I try to talk about it he will get very mad and say i'm exaggerating. And really, no harm does come from someone coming home and enjoying a cocktail after work. its just not for me. I dont understand why every single day off has to include at least one drink.
Does this come from being an adult child of an alcoholic or should I consider the possibiltiy that the person clostest to me may have a problem?
Thank you for you thoughts !
I am new to this forum and seek some help from people who might be able to understand where I am coming from. Being a 24 year old who does not drink or do drugs with alcholic parents leaves me feeling pretty alone. It's typical for a 24 year old to drink with friends but its never been my norm.
I started dating a wonderful guy about a year ago. Things are great between us except one major thing. He "enjoys " drinking. He grew up in a family where its bloody marys in the am, afternoon cocktails, wine with dinner, party drinking at night. I grew up in the chaos of a family of alcholics that turned me off from the very idea of drinking often.
It has been something of an issue between us from the get go. He had many nights out where he drank to the point of blacking out and I had to be the one there to help. An absolute memory lane trip to my childhood. We had many talks about it. We recently moved into a new apartment and his sister is currently staying with us while she finishes up college. She too will drink every single day off she has.
I can not wrap my head around what is harmless and not worth worrying about and what is a problem. I feel a twinge of annoyance anytime we are having a great day together and he will say " lets grab a drink" or " i'd love a martini tonight when i get home" For me it has never been a source of relaxing. I dont understand it. When I try to talk about it he will get very mad and say i'm exaggerating. And really, no harm does come from someone coming home and enjoying a cocktail after work. its just not for me. I dont understand why every single day off has to include at least one drink.
Does this come from being an adult child of an alcoholic or should I consider the possibiltiy that the person clostest to me may have a problem?
Thank you for you thoughts !
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Midwest
Posts: 30
I'm glad you found the SR boards -- you've come to the right place! One thing that stood out to me in your post is that you say his drinking has been an issue in your relationship from the get go. I ended up marrying an alcoholic, and the only "red-flag" in our relationship during the 3 years we dated was his drinking. Blacking out from drinking is NEVER normal. That indicates alcohol abuse.
I think you have to consider YOUR feelings and what YOUR comfort level is. Having twinges of annoyance when he says he wants to stop for a drink is something you should pay attention to, because his current behavior will surely indicate his future behavior.
Have you ever gone to an Al-Anon meeting? You may find it helpful, coming from a FOO (Family Of Origin) affected by alcoholism.
Keep coming back with your questions!
YB
I think you have to consider YOUR feelings and what YOUR comfort level is. Having twinges of annoyance when he says he wants to stop for a drink is something you should pay attention to, because his current behavior will surely indicate his future behavior.
Have you ever gone to an Al-Anon meeting? You may find it helpful, coming from a FOO (Family Of Origin) affected by alcoholism.
Keep coming back with your questions!
YB
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thank you so much yellowbirdy for taking the time to respond.
First off I have been to a few alanon meetings. Very few. I haven't found one that I feel completely comfortable with yet, but i'm in the process.
It's awful between my boyfriend and I when it comes to this because in every single other aspect of our relationship its wonderful. I can talk for days on end about how I feel to him about this topic but he will turn around and do the same. As if he's educating me on " normal " drinking. He thinks he can teach me to feel comfortable around social drinking. I have considered this possibility to be true. This makes me feel wrong to judge him. We had discussed it so many times over that I don't know how I would bring it up once more.
I came to be on this forum tonight because before I left for work I said to my roommate and good friend " when you guys get home and he wants to start drinking can you maybe suggest helping to set up the new apartment instead?" assuming that this being the night before his day off he would want a drink. Go figure hes passed out on the couch right now. Makes me sick.
First off I have been to a few alanon meetings. Very few. I haven't found one that I feel completely comfortable with yet, but i'm in the process.
It's awful between my boyfriend and I when it comes to this because in every single other aspect of our relationship its wonderful. I can talk for days on end about how I feel to him about this topic but he will turn around and do the same. As if he's educating me on " normal " drinking. He thinks he can teach me to feel comfortable around social drinking. I have considered this possibility to be true. This makes me feel wrong to judge him. We had discussed it so many times over that I don't know how I would bring it up once more.
I came to be on this forum tonight because before I left for work I said to my roommate and good friend " when you guys get home and he wants to start drinking can you maybe suggest helping to set up the new apartment instead?" assuming that this being the night before his day off he would want a drink. Go figure hes passed out on the couch right now. Makes me sick.
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Location: Seattle, WA
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If he is blacking out or drinking all day long, I would say that there may be an issue. It is not your job to taking care of him. You need to take care of yourself first.
Al-Anon is helpful as well. I can be really honest about how I abstain from drinking and how I am really feeling about the issues that my recovering alcholic husband is going through. But as well, it has been helpful to just hear from adult children of alcoholics in my Al-Anon group. We learn from each other.
I have been ordering some used self-help books from Amazon (lower cost) to help me with different issues in my life. I normally will look at the reviews as well as a description for the self-help book.
Here is a link to amazon:
Amazon.com: children of alcoholics
Al-Anon is helpful as well. I can be really honest about how I abstain from drinking and how I am really feeling about the issues that my recovering alcholic husband is going through. But as well, it has been helpful to just hear from adult children of alcoholics in my Al-Anon group. We learn from each other.
I have been ordering some used self-help books from Amazon (lower cost) to help me with different issues in my life. I normally will look at the reviews as well as a description for the self-help book.
Here is a link to amazon:
Amazon.com: children of alcoholics
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
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prettyviolets,
I worry in talking about this issue that I may be exaggerating. I am trying to understand if its merely in my head or if what I am seeing from him is not normal.
Good example. I went to school for musical theater, I was so excited when one of my favorite shows was on tour in my city. We made a big plan to do dinner and see the show. As we were getting ready he ended up having two drinks. For no good reason. We had a fabulous night planned. He ended up falling asleep in the middle of a show I spent 150 dollars per ticket on. how sad
I worry in talking about this issue that I may be exaggerating. I am trying to understand if its merely in my head or if what I am seeing from him is not normal.
Good example. I went to school for musical theater, I was so excited when one of my favorite shows was on tour in my city. We made a big plan to do dinner and see the show. As we were getting ready he ended up having two drinks. For no good reason. We had a fabulous night planned. He ended up falling asleep in the middle of a show I spent 150 dollars per ticket on. how sad
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: The Midwest
Posts: 30
newone87,
Sometimes it takes a while to find a good fit with an Al-Anon meeting group. I know that if you stick with it you will find the right one.
Those of us affected by alcoholism often feel like we are exaggerating a problem. We tell ourselves is it really THAT BAD? This is denial (something which I am very familiar with). The situations you speak of with your ABF (Alcoholic Boy Friend) -- the perfectly good evenings that are ruined, feeling sick because he is passed out yet again, worrying if he is going to drink--these aren't the norm for healthy relationships. They are the norm for those in a relationship with an alcoholic. In my own situation, it did not get better over time. As it has been said, the only change you can make is the change that happens within yourself.
It sounds to me like your ABF does not yet recognize he has an abusive relationship with alcohol. Until he makes the decision that he wants to change, there is no amount of talking, pleading, begging, etc. on your part that will convince him otherwise.
I find it helpful to remember what I've learned in Al-Anon and on the SR boards in dealing with my AH:
I didn't CAUSE it.
I cannot CONTROL it.
I cannot CURE it.
Keep posting your questions. Keep coming back. I know it's a difficult confusing time. People are here to help you.
YB
Sometimes it takes a while to find a good fit with an Al-Anon meeting group. I know that if you stick with it you will find the right one.
Those of us affected by alcoholism often feel like we are exaggerating a problem. We tell ourselves is it really THAT BAD? This is denial (something which I am very familiar with). The situations you speak of with your ABF (Alcoholic Boy Friend) -- the perfectly good evenings that are ruined, feeling sick because he is passed out yet again, worrying if he is going to drink--these aren't the norm for healthy relationships. They are the norm for those in a relationship with an alcoholic. In my own situation, it did not get better over time. As it has been said, the only change you can make is the change that happens within yourself.
It sounds to me like your ABF does not yet recognize he has an abusive relationship with alcohol. Until he makes the decision that he wants to change, there is no amount of talking, pleading, begging, etc. on your part that will convince him otherwise.
I find it helpful to remember what I've learned in Al-Anon and on the SR boards in dealing with my AH:
I didn't CAUSE it.
I cannot CONTROL it.
I cannot CURE it.
Keep posting your questions. Keep coming back. I know it's a difficult confusing time. People are here to help you.
YB
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I struggled with this when I was dating my husband and early into our marriage.
I am not a big drinker, drink occasionally (like one to two drinks every few months), and don't have a lot of friends who enjoy drinking, even when we were in our 20s.
I did not grow up with alcoholism in my immediate family, but I think both my parents did.
I also struggled because my exH had a different "view" on alcohol, and so I just thought it was me being sheltered that was the problem.
I am in the process of realizing something though. My husband "talked" a lot about his substance use, getting better etc, especially right after a blackout, pass out etc. He talked a lot about getting better.
His behaviors though never indicated a true desire to get better.
I started to get better when I started to believe his behaviors and not his words.
I am not a big drinker, drink occasionally (like one to two drinks every few months), and don't have a lot of friends who enjoy drinking, even when we were in our 20s.
I did not grow up with alcoholism in my immediate family, but I think both my parents did.
I also struggled because my exH had a different "view" on alcohol, and so I just thought it was me being sheltered that was the problem.
I am in the process of realizing something though. My husband "talked" a lot about his substance use, getting better etc, especially right after a blackout, pass out etc. He talked a lot about getting better.
His behaviors though never indicated a true desire to get better.
I started to get better when I started to believe his behaviors and not his words.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
NewOne, it doesn't matter if he has a problem with his drinking, you do. Whether or not he is a social drinker, problem drinker or alcoholic doesn't matter. If you are not comfortable with his drinking and he is not willing to change then there is a problem with your relationship. I don't have anything to offer other than only you can decide what is right for you.
Your friend,
Your friend,
Programmaddict
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: God's Hands
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Originally Posted by newone87 
He had many nights out where he drank to the point of blacking out and I had to be the one there to help.
The red, bolded language quoted above is very strong evidence of adopting a codependent stance of protecting a loved one from the consequences of their actions which is typical for the friends and relatives of alcoholics.
I have found the Al-Anon recovery program to make this behavior clear to myself and to present healthy choices and and the support necessary to make them.
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Thank you everyone for your responses. I truly appreciate your words.
I feel like a walking cliche in that I have an alcoholic family and now i'm involved with someone where drinking is such a big thing. You would think i'd know better.
Just to clear up my story a little more, our not seeing eye to eye on this matter stems from his family introducing him to alcohol at a very young age. As if they were european and sipping wine at dinner was going to be a normal thing. His parents are very very wealthy and well to do. It's looked at as a classy past time.
Then you look at my family. Alcohol has ruined most everything. There is no glitz and glamour.
I am peacefully sitting here doing some work and his sister just came in to say " who wants to make cocktails in an hour." It's wednesday afternoon , i'm up to my ears in work, no thanks. Maybe i'm just really lame.
If someone could help me find a way to start this comvo with him with a different approach than I already have I would appreciate that. He gets legit angry with me when the topic comes up.
I feel like a walking cliche in that I have an alcoholic family and now i'm involved with someone where drinking is such a big thing. You would think i'd know better.
Just to clear up my story a little more, our not seeing eye to eye on this matter stems from his family introducing him to alcohol at a very young age. As if they were european and sipping wine at dinner was going to be a normal thing. His parents are very very wealthy and well to do. It's looked at as a classy past time.
Then you look at my family. Alcohol has ruined most everything. There is no glitz and glamour.
I am peacefully sitting here doing some work and his sister just came in to say " who wants to make cocktails in an hour." It's wednesday afternoon , i'm up to my ears in work, no thanks. Maybe i'm just really lame.
If someone could help me find a way to start this comvo with him with a different approach than I already have I would appreciate that. He gets legit angry with me when the topic comes up.
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Do you guys live together or are you still dating?
It's funny, I didn't grow up with alcoholic parents and I still find myself getting annoyed with people who have to get wasted all the time. I always have. It's just kinda lame.
He's being a bit lame by getting *angry* when you try to bring it up. Yeah, his family does drink a whole lot. And him blacking out when you're trying to have a nice evening is tiresome. And then he's like, "Yeah, no, this is normal," which, #1 No it isn't and #2. Who cares? You don't like it.
I would say it's not really your job to figure out whether he's a bona fide alcoholic or not. He drinks too much for you and is a pain in the ass about it, that much you know. There are plenty of people who tone down their drinking for a partner, either because the partner has bad memories or just because the partner's not a drinker.
But instead of listening to you and saying, "That's cool, I'll have a smoothie instead," he's decided to get all jerky about it. I'm sorry, but that's really not okay.
Maybe you can have a quiet talk sometime, maybe with a therapist, and you can let him know how you feel.
It's funny, I didn't grow up with alcoholic parents and I still find myself getting annoyed with people who have to get wasted all the time. I always have. It's just kinda lame.
He's being a bit lame by getting *angry* when you try to bring it up. Yeah, his family does drink a whole lot. And him blacking out when you're trying to have a nice evening is tiresome. And then he's like, "Yeah, no, this is normal," which, #1 No it isn't and #2. Who cares? You don't like it.
I would say it's not really your job to figure out whether he's a bona fide alcoholic or not. He drinks too much for you and is a pain in the ass about it, that much you know. There are plenty of people who tone down their drinking for a partner, either because the partner has bad memories or just because the partner's not a drinker.
But instead of listening to you and saying, "That's cool, I'll have a smoothie instead," he's decided to get all jerky about it. I'm sorry, but that's really not okay.
Maybe you can have a quiet talk sometime, maybe with a therapist, and you can let him know how you feel.
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Originally Posted by newone87
If someone could help me find a way to start this comvo with him with a different approach than I already have I would appreciate that. He gets legit angry with me when the topic comes up.
Denial is very common in alcoholism. It's the only way an alcoholic can continue to drink.
You might as well be talking to the wall, hon.
Sending you hugs of support.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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Just a flash of thought...
is there ANY alcoholic on the planet (active one) who seriously knows, or tells someone at the front door of a relationship...
"I am an alcoholic, and I think what I do is totally normal". ???
1- they don't think THEY are the alcoholic
2- in the beginning of a relationship, it seems ALWAYS "just a couple of social drinks"
3- it is just a matter of time before you witness the reality of passed out, etc..and YOU wake up to the "no, this is NOT normal stuff".
4- you bring it up...they get defensive
I'm still kinda in the reality sinking in phase, and also the OMG, do I really have to LEAVE THIS PERSON, because there really is no alternative phase.
is there ANY alcoholic on the planet (active one) who seriously knows, or tells someone at the front door of a relationship...
"I am an alcoholic, and I think what I do is totally normal". ???
1- they don't think THEY are the alcoholic
2- in the beginning of a relationship, it seems ALWAYS "just a couple of social drinks"
3- it is just a matter of time before you witness the reality of passed out, etc..and YOU wake up to the "no, this is NOT normal stuff".
4- you bring it up...they get defensive
I'm still kinda in the reality sinking in phase, and also the OMG, do I really have to LEAVE THIS PERSON, because there really is no alternative phase.
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Originally Posted by newone87
It's awful between my boyfriend and I when it comes to this because in every single other aspect of our relationship its wonderful.
If I could go back in time, knowing what I know now, I would have moved on before I spent 20 years of my life trying to change that "one thing" about him that I didn't like. I would have moved on before I brought two children into the mess. I would have moved on before I sacrificed so much at the altar of a relationship that was probably doomed from the start.
I was once young and in love with a "problem drinker." I figured it was something he would grow out of. I figured the love we had for each other was enough to get us through anything. I figured having a loving wife and children would be more important to him than alcohol. I was wrong, on all counts.
You don't have to settle for someone whose behavior bothers you. You don't have to settle for someone who has very different values than you do. You don't have to settle for someone who is "almost" what you want in a partner. And you don't have to justify settling with "no relationship is perfect," either.
L
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Join Date: Jul 2011
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Originally Posted by Freedom1990
I don't think there is a different approach as he will get angry regardless. He's protecting his drinking at all costs, including backing you off of the subject by getting angry.
Denial is very common in alcoholism. It's the only way an alcoholic can continue to drink.
You might as well be talking to the wall, hon.
Sending you hugs of support.
Denial is very common in alcoholism. It's the only way an alcoholic can continue to drink.
You might as well be talking to the wall, hon.
Sending you hugs of support.
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 10
Besides the few times where blackouts happened, it has never been in complete excess in a single night. It's more the regularity of it. THe fact that martinis are the norm in my house every night while watching tv or whatever.
We went to visit his family in vermont a few weeks ago. It was only second time meeting them. I happen to have been getting over strep at the time so one night I opted to stay in the bedroom and relax while he caught up with his hometown friends. Totally content with this. At one point he came upstairs and said " so we're going to go downtown for a bit. " "oh ok no problem have fun " " but I wont be able ot make it back tonight because everyone will be too drunk to drive."
really?
I know I sound like a fool. These stories I have shared add up to something that is just not right. I am struggling with knowing that I am a person who tries to help people ( like my mom ) He openly admitted that his family is out of control with drinking. I want things to change before we get in more deep . We do live together at this point and i'm worried that this will turn into a very large problem in the future.
only since reading what people have to say on this site have I been coming around to the fact that if he cant stop after i say it bothers me than this is a legit problem.
We went to visit his family in vermont a few weeks ago. It was only second time meeting them. I happen to have been getting over strep at the time so one night I opted to stay in the bedroom and relax while he caught up with his hometown friends. Totally content with this. At one point he came upstairs and said " so we're going to go downtown for a bit. " "oh ok no problem have fun " " but I wont be able ot make it back tonight because everyone will be too drunk to drive."
really?
I know I sound like a fool. These stories I have shared add up to something that is just not right. I am struggling with knowing that I am a person who tries to help people ( like my mom ) He openly admitted that his family is out of control with drinking. I want things to change before we get in more deep . We do live together at this point and i'm worried that this will turn into a very large problem in the future.
only since reading what people have to say on this site have I been coming around to the fact that if he cant stop after i say it bothers me than this is a legit problem.
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Originally Posted by newone87
only since reading what people have to say on this site have I been coming around to the fact that if he cant stop after i say it bothers me than this is a legit problem.
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I was brought up during the time period where kids learned to make the drinks around 12 years old. My parents partied alot and all of their friends drank. Once we kids grew up and married it was totally acceptable and expected we would drink. While there was occasionally someone who would get totally out of hand, for the most part it was considered 'social drinking.'
When I met my X he was the love of my life. I knew from the beginning he was a heavy drinker but he NEVER showed signs of being drunk. My family loved him and never saw him get out of control. We would go out and everyone would fix 'one for the road'. (Many years ago this was acceptable behavior).
Fast forward.....after about 15 years of marriage his drinking got way out of control. Because I came from a family where drinking was acceptable it took me a very long time to realize exactly what the problem was. Alcoholism can disguise itself in many ways. We stayed married for 23 years and both of our kids have addiction/alcohol problems.
He is now sober (did not work a program) but we have been thru h*ll with his struggles as well as the kids. When we first married he never blacked out, acted out of line, showed signs of being drunk. Over the years, though, as the drinking increased it totally changed his personality. Whatever minor issues you are seeing now will most definately be magnified the longer it continues. And it sounds like his family is pretty out of control as well.
When I met my X he was the love of my life. I knew from the beginning he was a heavy drinker but he NEVER showed signs of being drunk. My family loved him and never saw him get out of control. We would go out and everyone would fix 'one for the road'. (Many years ago this was acceptable behavior).
Fast forward.....after about 15 years of marriage his drinking got way out of control. Because I came from a family where drinking was acceptable it took me a very long time to realize exactly what the problem was. Alcoholism can disguise itself in many ways. We stayed married for 23 years and both of our kids have addiction/alcohol problems.
He is now sober (did not work a program) but we have been thru h*ll with his struggles as well as the kids. When we first married he never blacked out, acted out of line, showed signs of being drunk. Over the years, though, as the drinking increased it totally changed his personality. Whatever minor issues you are seeing now will most definately be magnified the longer it continues. And it sounds like his family is pretty out of control as well.
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It took me awhile to realize it was a legit problem when it impacted me in a way I did not like. Regardless if someone else described it as a problem or not. When I realized my feelings in my relationship had equal weight, healing really started for me.
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Originally Posted by newone87
Does this come from being an adult child of an alcoholic or should I consider the possibiltiy that the person clostest to me may have a problem?
Thank you for you thoughts !
Thank you for you thoughts !
I'm from a family with no visible history of alcoholism (or any other elephant-in-the-livingroom type problem that I've been able to think of). I did binge drink for a few years from about 19-22. Except for that time of my life I rarely drink (I'm 42, wouldn't keep alcohol in my home if it weren't for AH and only have a couple of drinks a month typically). I also have close friends that binge drink. I still wonder if I don't have a skewed perception of daily drinking because what I've seen in my life with alcohol is more of an all-or-nothing.
It sounds to me like you could really benefit from some short-term counseling just to explore your feelings about this particular topic. A good counselor could help you cut through BS you don't even know is there so that you can be honest with YOURSELF.
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