denial (again)
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Saltburn UK
Posts: 278
denial (again)
In an exchange yesterday R repeated her story of why she last bought Vodka, it was brought on by something I said. The only time she ever has a drink is when I stress her out.
The bottle she was referring to was the last in the line of a 3 week period of madness which has brought things to a head for me, and it's the reason I'm on here-and very grateful for everyones support.
There have been times when I thought we were having a nice day together, no stress, no external issues to wind her up, I go out for a couple of hours, come back and she's drunk-so what was my input there?
I then remembered the best example of R's drinking without me being the catalyst.
R has a daughter by a previous marriage who lives in London. She met a S African guy and they were to get married in S Africa in 2005. Because there had been drink related incidents prior to this I decided it was best that I stayed back with our two daughters. We were away the day R was to fly to London from here (N England) for the connecting flight to JoBurg.
I found out some days later that R had been barred from flying to London because she was deemed to be drunk at the airport. Her daughter and everyone were mortified and had to fly out without her.
She did make the flight the following day.
The evening of the wedding she had a fall out with her family on the way back from the reception, and dissapeared from the grooms parents house.
Something was said which upset her. She was in Wellkom-a long way from JoBurg.
She walked out and slept somewhere in a field (S Africa-wild animals!) then made her way to JoBurg and flew home alone. Meanwhile the whole family were looking for her.
She has never accepted that this behaviour was lunacy-it took 6 months for her daughter to speak to her.
Now how did I cause all that?
Sorry this is so long.
The bottle she was referring to was the last in the line of a 3 week period of madness which has brought things to a head for me, and it's the reason I'm on here-and very grateful for everyones support.
There have been times when I thought we were having a nice day together, no stress, no external issues to wind her up, I go out for a couple of hours, come back and she's drunk-so what was my input there?
I then remembered the best example of R's drinking without me being the catalyst.
R has a daughter by a previous marriage who lives in London. She met a S African guy and they were to get married in S Africa in 2005. Because there had been drink related incidents prior to this I decided it was best that I stayed back with our two daughters. We were away the day R was to fly to London from here (N England) for the connecting flight to JoBurg.
I found out some days later that R had been barred from flying to London because she was deemed to be drunk at the airport. Her daughter and everyone were mortified and had to fly out without her.
She did make the flight the following day.
The evening of the wedding she had a fall out with her family on the way back from the reception, and dissapeared from the grooms parents house.
Something was said which upset her. She was in Wellkom-a long way from JoBurg.
She walked out and slept somewhere in a field (S Africa-wild animals!) then made her way to JoBurg and flew home alone. Meanwhile the whole family were looking for her.
She has never accepted that this behaviour was lunacy-it took 6 months for her daughter to speak to her.
Now how did I cause all that?
Sorry this is so long.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Realizing that it was never "me, myself and I" that "caused" the behavior was a big one for me. I had been walking on eggshells for so long to try and make sure that I did not do something that would lead to my loved one drinking.
It was hard for me though to also realize that my reaction (in terms of how I chose to act) to any behavior on the addicts part was mine alone too.
In other words when I accepted I was not at fault for the drinking, I had to realize he was not at fault for my controlling and other crazy making behavior.
It was a relief though for me to put the puzzle pieces into place.
It was hard for me though to also realize that my reaction (in terms of how I chose to act) to any behavior on the addicts part was mine alone too.
In other words when I accepted I was not at fault for the drinking, I had to realize he was not at fault for my controlling and other crazy making behavior.
It was a relief though for me to put the puzzle pieces into place.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
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Of course it's all your fault Painterman... if it wasn't, then *gasp* she'd have to actually look at herself and she can't have that can she?
She's doing what alcoholics do. Blaming others, projecting, deflecting, rationalizing, justifying and in my experience they are masters at it.
I am sorry you're having to be subjected to this. Is it possible for you to stay elsewhere or have her stay elsewhere? It sounds like living under the same roof and being subjected to her verbal abuse is really an untenable situation for you.
I know how difficult it is to live with an A and I tried for years to do the "detachment" thing. I was unable to do it. What I needed I realized was complete separation so that I could have peace in my home.
You don't cause her to drink no matter what you do. Her inability to cope with life and her unwillingness to seek help for her disease is what causes her to drink. You do NOT need to change your life to accommodate her and this is a lesson I wish I'd learned earlier; I stopped asking my AH to pitch in, I stopped saying how I felt, I stopped asking for what I needed, I offered to quit drinking with AH and I drank with him to try and find a "connection", I gave up my interests, I picked them back up, I lied to friends and family for him and I told the truth. Bottom line is that NOTHING I did or didn't do made a difference. The A in our lives is the one who needs to make choices to change their lives. All that you and I can do is figure out what we can do to change our lives for the better but know that whatever decision that is is neither going to hurt or help our A get better. All that will help the A get better is THEIR choice to do so.
She's doing what alcoholics do. Blaming others, projecting, deflecting, rationalizing, justifying and in my experience they are masters at it.
I am sorry you're having to be subjected to this. Is it possible for you to stay elsewhere or have her stay elsewhere? It sounds like living under the same roof and being subjected to her verbal abuse is really an untenable situation for you.
I know how difficult it is to live with an A and I tried for years to do the "detachment" thing. I was unable to do it. What I needed I realized was complete separation so that I could have peace in my home.
You don't cause her to drink no matter what you do. Her inability to cope with life and her unwillingness to seek help for her disease is what causes her to drink. You do NOT need to change your life to accommodate her and this is a lesson I wish I'd learned earlier; I stopped asking my AH to pitch in, I stopped saying how I felt, I stopped asking for what I needed, I offered to quit drinking with AH and I drank with him to try and find a "connection", I gave up my interests, I picked them back up, I lied to friends and family for him and I told the truth. Bottom line is that NOTHING I did or didn't do made a difference. The A in our lives is the one who needs to make choices to change their lives. All that you and I can do is figure out what we can do to change our lives for the better but know that whatever decision that is is neither going to hurt or help our A get better. All that will help the A get better is THEIR choice to do so.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Saltburn UK
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wanttobehealthy, thanks for that-I have reached the point where I can see it-very objectively- and R now realises that. She has gone silent, so it feels like one of those 'whose going to break first' situations. As you say, in the centre of that is a complete unwillingness to look at herself. I'm currently ignoring it, but of course a festering bad feeling can't go on forever-apart from anything else it's making me very tired physically and emotionally- but I am very aware of the need to take care of myself.
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
Originally Posted by painterman 
wanttobehealthy, thanks for that-I have reached the point where I can see it-very objectively- and R now realises that. She has gone silent, so it feels like one of those 'whose going to break first' situations. As you say, in the centre of that is a complete unwillingness to look at herself. I'm currently ignoring it, but of course a festering bad feeling can't go on forever-apart from anything else it's making me very tired physically and emotionally- but I am very aware of the need to take care of myself.
It's obvious she's not ready to change, and the entire household is affected.
What are you getting out of the relationship, because at some level it still is working for you, else it wouldn't be the way it is?
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
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Originally Posted by painterman
I suppose I'm putting off the big issues like selling the house and buying another and all the financial implications, I just feel too tired to contemplate that at present.
My 33-year-old AD is no longer welcome in my home after turning the household upside down in less than a month.
I took her in after a lengthy jail sentence for felony drug charges because her then husband had had enough, filed for divorce, and she had nowhere to go.
I finally hit a bottom the day I came home early to a house reeking of pot, my stereo up full blast, and her in bed with some man I had never seen before (and who later went to prison for molesting two 8-year-old girls).
That was the end of the line for me, and out the door she went.
I was exhausted in every sense of the word, and that wasn't going to get any better while she was still under my roof.
Just my own personal experience living with an active A.
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Join Date: Dec 2010
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I finally ended things with XABF while he was away at rehab. That was when I finally had the space to actually think, and breathe, and make decisions, and live... And that's when I realized how far downhill things had gone.
Meanwhile he constantly called my cell phone every time he could con someone else out of enough quarters, and all the calls were about him and the things that I needed to do for him since he was in rehab for me.
Even when he was in rehab I didn't get complete distance from him like I needed, but I got enough of it to realize that contact with him was bad for my health. It's very difficult dealing with an active alcoholic.
Meanwhile he constantly called my cell phone every time he could con someone else out of enough quarters, and all the calls were about him and the things that I needed to do for him since he was in rehab for me.
Even when he was in rehab I didn't get complete distance from him like I needed, but I got enough of it to realize that contact with him was bad for my health. It's very difficult dealing with an active alcoholic.
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Location: Western US
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
Of course it's all your fault Painterman... if it wasn't, then *gasp* she'd have to actually look at herself and she can't have that can she?
She's doing what alcoholics do. Blaming others, projecting, deflecting, rationalizing, justifying and in my experience they are masters at it.
She's doing what alcoholics do. Blaming others, projecting, deflecting, rationalizing, justifying and in my experience they are masters at it.
Painterman
When I would confront my ex about his trips to buy cigarettes that took six hours and doused him with eau de Beam, he would say well you had a 'tone' when you were talking to me. WTF? Tone? Sounds like you must have that 'tone' too or something. I am sure you know better, just as I did. It is hard not to let it get to you. I'm so sorry you are still going through this.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
My AW has confided in me that she hates our daughter's boyfriend. She's been moping around a lot lately, and during her latest drunk tried to pick a fight with the boyfriend over something trivial.
I think it boils down to jealousy. AW is a very clingy, needy person, and she resents the fact that Daughter is now grown and doesn't hang around the house all the time. I warned AW that if she forces daughter to choose between her and her boyfriend, AW is likely to lose.
Lately, AW and Daughter have been fighting a lot about AW's drinking. (Daughter still thinks she can shame her into quitting). If AW continues attacking the boyfriend, I'm not sure how long Daughter will tolerate it.
It's just one more straw. AW the catatonic drunk is one thing, but AW who picks fights and makes everybody miserable is another.
I think it boils down to jealousy. AW is a very clingy, needy person, and she resents the fact that Daughter is now grown and doesn't hang around the house all the time. I warned AW that if she forces daughter to choose between her and her boyfriend, AW is likely to lose.
Lately, AW and Daughter have been fighting a lot about AW's drinking. (Daughter still thinks she can shame her into quitting). If AW continues attacking the boyfriend, I'm not sure how long Daughter will tolerate it.
It's just one more straw. AW the catatonic drunk is one thing, but AW who picks fights and makes everybody miserable is another.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Alcoholism is called "the disease of denial" because it permeates an alcoholics' crazy thinking. I've been sober a long time and still have to question myself from time to time and ask if my thinking is clouded by denial. It helps to understand that there's nothing you or anyone can do to change this deluded thinking.
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
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Painterman- Do i get where you're coming from about not wanting to deal with selling your house and the financial implications of leaving... I am right there with you.
Worry about all the details kept me stuck in a miserable marriage for a long time. I still am fearful and uncertain what will happen financially and with our house but I reached a point where I finally said my kids and I don't deserve this and I told AH that he needed to leave. I also told him, here's the financial situation so you can't go off and rent an apt bc there's no money to do that and so figure out where you will stay.
He did.
I am not working and when unemployment runs out, if I haven't found a job, keeping my house won't be an option. But I'll tackle that when I get to it. For now I am grateful for having AH out of the house so I can think clearly and enjoy life with our young daughters (6 and 3).
I thoroughly understand the dread of dealing with all the detail stuff and practical/financial stuff involved with separating. I thought it would be too much to deal with and I put off separating for a long time bc of what I feared. Truthfully, it is a huge pain to deal with all of it BUT it is far less miserable than I feared AND the benefit of the peace that I have at home is well worth the annoyance of dealing with details...
Not telling you what to do-- just sharing my experience and letting you know I have been very much where you are and can empathize with what you're saying is holding you back.
Hang in there.
Worry about all the details kept me stuck in a miserable marriage for a long time. I still am fearful and uncertain what will happen financially and with our house but I reached a point where I finally said my kids and I don't deserve this and I told AH that he needed to leave. I also told him, here's the financial situation so you can't go off and rent an apt bc there's no money to do that and so figure out where you will stay.
He did.
I am not working and when unemployment runs out, if I haven't found a job, keeping my house won't be an option. But I'll tackle that when I get to it. For now I am grateful for having AH out of the house so I can think clearly and enjoy life with our young daughters (6 and 3).
I thoroughly understand the dread of dealing with all the detail stuff and practical/financial stuff involved with separating. I thought it would be too much to deal with and I put off separating for a long time bc of what I feared. Truthfully, it is a huge pain to deal with all of it BUT it is far less miserable than I feared AND the benefit of the peace that I have at home is well worth the annoyance of dealing with details...
Not telling you what to do-- just sharing my experience and letting you know I have been very much where you are and can empathize with what you're saying is holding you back.
Hang in there.
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