alcohol or personality issue?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 110
alcohol or personality issue?
just for myself...here's something I would appreciate feedback.
It is pretty much established that behaviors like lying, manipulating, denial, blaming others..are all standard for the alcoholics in our lives.
IF they never took a drink to start with, are these issues that are there and independent of the addiction? If someone remains in recovery, do they tend to "heal" from many of these? or are they things that will remain?
One dispute happened, of course, while bf was drunk, that made me glimpse something else that really upset me, at the same time as it might have offered understanding. He frequently talked about providing beer to his stepkids, at home, which he framed as protecting them from being out and getting drunk. That bothered me, in itself.
It was something else, though, that came through, because he was almost fixated on saying HOW MUCH THEY LOVED HIM. The same thing was said, about some younger kids, because he gave them treats like ice cream. The main focus was not on the kids or their needs, but it was more like the whole thing revolved around his own obsession with being loved. Even if (to me), the love wasn't real.. but he was buying the love. To fill HIS NEED. And that scared me a lot. At least with the older ones... he seemed incapable of realizing that he was harming them by introducing them to addiction of either beer or pot. As long as they "loved" him.. it was justified and a positive.
I know, I am not responsible for fixing this, anymore than I am responsible or capable of fixing his drinking.
Another scary thing is the impulsiveness and anger. He gets angry FAST, lets it fester and escalate, and tends to act on it without any thinking.
After talking to him yesterday, it seems likely that he is going to do the detaching (hopefully not in a hostile way), and it won't be an issue of him trying to apologize, and try to keep me hooked into a relationship. That may be the best thing, and allow me to let go from both ends.
I don't know what will happen from here, and am not worried about it, either way. I just wanted your views on the idea that if he did stop drinking, would he tend to hang on to the personality issues? And, how much do those personality issues LEAD to that first drink and long term use?
It is pretty much established that behaviors like lying, manipulating, denial, blaming others..are all standard for the alcoholics in our lives.
IF they never took a drink to start with, are these issues that are there and independent of the addiction? If someone remains in recovery, do they tend to "heal" from many of these? or are they things that will remain?
One dispute happened, of course, while bf was drunk, that made me glimpse something else that really upset me, at the same time as it might have offered understanding. He frequently talked about providing beer to his stepkids, at home, which he framed as protecting them from being out and getting drunk. That bothered me, in itself.
It was something else, though, that came through, because he was almost fixated on saying HOW MUCH THEY LOVED HIM. The same thing was said, about some younger kids, because he gave them treats like ice cream. The main focus was not on the kids or their needs, but it was more like the whole thing revolved around his own obsession with being loved. Even if (to me), the love wasn't real.. but he was buying the love. To fill HIS NEED. And that scared me a lot. At least with the older ones... he seemed incapable of realizing that he was harming them by introducing them to addiction of either beer or pot. As long as they "loved" him.. it was justified and a positive.
I know, I am not responsible for fixing this, anymore than I am responsible or capable of fixing his drinking.
Another scary thing is the impulsiveness and anger. He gets angry FAST, lets it fester and escalate, and tends to act on it without any thinking.
After talking to him yesterday, it seems likely that he is going to do the detaching (hopefully not in a hostile way), and it won't be an issue of him trying to apologize, and try to keep me hooked into a relationship. That may be the best thing, and allow me to let go from both ends.
I don't know what will happen from here, and am not worried about it, either way. I just wanted your views on the idea that if he did stop drinking, would he tend to hang on to the personality issues? And, how much do those personality issues LEAD to that first drink and long term use?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 95
"Self-centeredness, selfishness - that we think is the root of our problem." The big book discusses the self-centered fear that drives addiction. "Lack of power" is described as the dilemma. It's also noted that alcoholics are driven by "a hundred forms of fear," and those fears usually revolve around the intense separateness/isolation they feel. The 12 steps are specifically designed to address the precise underlying malady you're describing. Add in fellowship with others they identify with and a new life philosphy that emphasizes being of service to others - and miracles happen. There is hope, and a solution, and I've seen it first-hand. Good luck.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
I suggest his behavior depends on the quality of his recovery program. Some of us work hard on our behavior, some go through the motions. No real answer can be given. You can see his actions and listen to what he says. Does he do what he says (walk the talk)?
Best wishes to you!!
Are you in your own program?? You can focus on you, move on if and when you outgrow him...
Best wishes to you!!
Are you in your own program?? You can focus on you, move on if and when you outgrow him...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 110
sugarbear, this site is the closest I can come to being in a program. I don't have a vehicle.
One blessing I have is that this relationship is maybe 5-6 months, and we both are well past having kids. I can't imagine those who have coped for 20+ yrs with a spouse. There is far less of an investment to walk away from.
Not to say it does not HURT LIKE HELL...but I am better off. On the other hand..I am not going to hold him unaccountable for encouraging me to believe we had a real future.
and I can "do" this program with people all over the world and in my pjs.
One blessing I have is that this relationship is maybe 5-6 months, and we both are well past having kids. I can't imagine those who have coped for 20+ yrs with a spouse. There is far less of an investment to walk away from.
Not to say it does not HURT LIKE HELL...but I am better off. On the other hand..I am not going to hold him unaccountable for encouraging me to believe we had a real future.
and I can "do" this program with people all over the world and in my pjs.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: hot as heck, az
Posts: 142
I can only speak from my limited experience with my AGF who is in rehab. The comparison to where/who she was before she went in, and who she presents as now are a lot different. Before you couldn't trust her - if her lips were moving she was lying. Now she is making efforts to be more trustworthy and honest. in her addiction she was very self centered and egotistical - she lied about it and got away with it for awhile, which made her think somehow it was OK as long as she didn't get caught. Now she is very remorseful for the tornado path she left through lives while she was using. She recognizes rationalization as one of her biggest enemy when it comes to relapse. She is a better version of the person I knew; her eyes are bright, she laughs at herself, shows an interest in the world.
When she was using, even if I didn't know it, there was something about her that was shifty. It got bigger as her problem did, to the point where I knew I didn't want to be with that person whom I couldn't trust.
What remains are her core issues of poor self esteem. She often thinks people are mad at her when there's no reason to think that. I guess that is part of the self centered nature of addiction. She is beginning to deal with her own issues growing up in an alcoholic and abusive home. She has difficulty articulating her feelings and first instinct is to shut down.
Granted this is all her when she is in a safe, substance free environment. What she'll do all remains to be seen once she steps down to transitional, then eventually (if all goes well) back home. The other piece that's different is that I've been working on my stuff in Alanon, so that I keep my side of the street clean, instead of trying to manage hers.
When she was using, even if I didn't know it, there was something about her that was shifty. It got bigger as her problem did, to the point where I knew I didn't want to be with that person whom I couldn't trust.
What remains are her core issues of poor self esteem. She often thinks people are mad at her when there's no reason to think that. I guess that is part of the self centered nature of addiction. She is beginning to deal with her own issues growing up in an alcoholic and abusive home. She has difficulty articulating her feelings and first instinct is to shut down.
Granted this is all her when she is in a safe, substance free environment. What she'll do all remains to be seen once she steps down to transitional, then eventually (if all goes well) back home. The other piece that's different is that I've been working on my stuff in Alanon, so that I keep my side of the street clean, instead of trying to manage hers.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
I believe I had all of my character defects long before I had my first drink. The drinking amplified them ten fold. Will they remain? I believe some of them will to some extent but if I continue to work on myself they will slowly get better in time.
I still have many character defects and I believe I always will. Heck, it seems like some went away and new ones cropped up! Today I choose to act differently (on good days
than I did in the past.
I still have many character defects and I believe I always will. Heck, it seems like some went away and new ones cropped up! Today I choose to act differently (on good days
than I did in the past.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
It was a simple question. This is a great supportive site.
I turned to drinking & drugs to cope with my codependency issues. I fell for my exhusband before he tried to take my life. I understand hurting and pain, in many realms.
I wish you well in life.
I turned to drinking & drugs to cope with my codependency issues. I fell for my exhusband before he tried to take my life. I understand hurting and pain, in many realms.
I wish you well in life.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
Just wanted to add that for me my character defects did not go away because I put the drink down. They got better (some even went away!) afterI worked the steps and because honest for the first time in my life. It took some time, it's not like they just went away because I wasn't drunk any more.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California
Posts: 693
I had a counseling session this morning and discussed this topic with the therapist. One big issue in my 16 year marriage has been a serious lack of emotional intimacy with my husband from day one. It's all woven together, the alcohol and the other problems. My husband could get into recovery in a big way, but the hard work is really looking deeply at yourself. He may not be capable of this, and I have to face that and also let go of the outcome of our marriage.
It's crazy making and you feel like a dog chasing your tail if you spend too much time analyzing it all. I find it helpful to look at the mechanics of our marriage and personalities but can't spend tons of time doing so because a lot of it makes no rational sense. The only thing that does make sense is making sure I can move forward in a healthy way that works for me. I can't do the work for him, character flaws or no, only he can make that happen.
It's crazy making and you feel like a dog chasing your tail if you spend too much time analyzing it all. I find it helpful to look at the mechanics of our marriage and personalities but can't spend tons of time doing so because a lot of it makes no rational sense. The only thing that does make sense is making sure I can move forward in a healthy way that works for me. I can't do the work for him, character flaws or no, only he can make that happen.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
Just my own experience, here... my AW was paranoid and fearful and obsessive before her drinking became a problem, and they've gotten worse as her alcoholism has progressed. The dishonesty, however, seems to be a new thing. It would appear to be a symptom of her defensiveness and denial when confronted about the drinking.
Of course, she may have been lying to me about other things all these years, and I just never caught on. Hard to say.
Of course, she may have been lying to me about other things all these years, and I just never caught on. Hard to say.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 119
I read a saying on here that has helped me alot.....if you ring the alcohol out of an azzhat, you're still left with an azzhat.
That thought has kept me strong in leaving my XABF. I don't think he has ever or will ever be honest with himself or take responsibility for his life.
That thought has kept me strong in leaving my XABF. I don't think he has ever or will ever be honest with himself or take responsibility for his life.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
For me I had to stop trying to seperate that stuff out because it kept me in denial.
Once I realized that the reason behind my loved ones behavior did not matter, the behavior met up against a boundary of mine that I was not comfortable with it helped me to break free.
When I kept blaming it on the use of alcohol, I kept me stuck in what he used to be like before alcohol became part of his relationship, and thus part of my relationship with him. Then I would get so focused on getting alcohol out of the equation that I never took care of myself or truly treated my loved one (or myself) with the respect that we both deserved as human beings.
Sorry that is pretty convoluted but in a nutshell once I stopped trying to find the reason behind the behavior I stopped being so crazy.
Once I realized that the reason behind my loved ones behavior did not matter, the behavior met up against a boundary of mine that I was not comfortable with it helped me to break free.
When I kept blaming it on the use of alcohol, I kept me stuck in what he used to be like before alcohol became part of his relationship, and thus part of my relationship with him. Then I would get so focused on getting alcohol out of the equation that I never took care of myself or truly treated my loved one (or myself) with the respect that we both deserved as human beings.
Sorry that is pretty convoluted but in a nutshell once I stopped trying to find the reason behind the behavior I stopped being so crazy.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Chronic alcohol consumption literally poisons the mind, and causes severe personality distortions. In my case, I can't even understand some of the thoughts and perceptions I had while actively drinking. They are just too bizarre and illogical for words. I was a seething ball of hatred and rage by the end. Once I quit, though, after about three or four months, most of the major personality distortions went away, including anger, paranoia, and horrific depression.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I don't know. Are you willing to stick around and find out?
My AXH swore up and down that he was a changed man while he was in rehab. And then he went back to drinking. The lying, neediness, manipulation, never went away. It was just less nasty when he was in rehab.
My AXH swore up and down that he was a changed man while he was in rehab. And then he went back to drinking. The lying, neediness, manipulation, never went away. It was just less nasty when he was in rehab.
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