choublak

I can't help but notice how many people in here would drive their alcoholic loved ones around when they lost their licenses, etc.

That is one ground rule that I have. Now, my BF hasn't (yet) had any problems with losing his license and needing transportation, but should it happen, I will not be driving him anywhere. He can take the bus. I have told him this, he said, "I wouldn't expect you to drive me around" but regardless of what he says, he knows the deal.

Let the alcoholic with no license take the bus. Seriously.

duqld1717

With all due respect, you won't drive him around if he lost his license but you will take him back time after time even though you know another binge is on the horizon and you told him you don't like it but he does it anyway. Its the same thing and enabling is enabling no matter what form it takes.

Thumper

My xah never lost his license but I did plenty of enabling of various forms.

Some of it was done in the name of helping him. You know - providing him with opportunity and resources to succeed. Rush in and do a good deed, save the day, blah blah blah. I could so why not?

Some of it was done because I wanted to be kind and loving. I wanted to make his life easy. I had (have) a bit of trouble figuring how to show and/or give love in a healthy way. If I make life easy for someone, if I sacrifice, if I arrange things so they are happy, fix things for them, that was love. It was scary not to do that. So of course I did a lot of enabling for my alcoholic husband, who for his own reasons fell into a dependent roll very easily. I look back and see this dynamic as particularly damaging to both him and I individually and to our relationship as a whole.

Eventually I did a lot of enabling because it made my life easier. It was a way of surviving and this fueled anger and resentment on my part. I also enabled by default because we shared a house and children and there were certain standards that I insisted on when it come to my home and my children and I was enabling him in the process.

I was deep in the dance of alcoholism/codependency and so until I hit my bottom I didn't see any other option but to continue on. I had sort of vanished into this alcoholic relationship.

By way of 'advice' I will share that I had a lot of ground rules when I first met my A. They slipped away one by one, like grains of sand clutched in my hand. I hardly noticed until I looked down and my hand was nearly empty. Be careful and take care of yourself. Write your boundaries/ground rules/values down. Understand them, read them often, add to them when needed, protect them, and never let them go.

mhealer3

fault-finding could go on forever with no good results.
clearly we're each entitled to create our own boundaries in life,
based simply on what works for us.
that's God Himself giving us that free choice. (it's even free choice to choose Him.)
but asking God 2 be your help, is the best free choice you'll ever make.
it's not necessary for me(or you) 2 apologize to any human being for how i/(you) handle my/(your) life,
'cause people r each screwed up in their own way, & are not my judge.
the fallacy that someone else-- besides God-- can tell me how 2 live, is ludicrous.
therefore be taking the Good part--in all this advice--that is useable to you,
and discard the rest...knowing that God will filter it 4 u if u ask Him.
for no man can Save another man, yet neither can he judge the heart(only the actions).
the word of man saves not,
but the Word of God has power 2 Save forever.
come home to the ONE WHO LOVES U.
God allowed Jesus 2 lay down His Life
so that we'd have Salvation.
it's not about self-righteousness, but GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, Amen praise God.

Thlayli

Depending on where people live the bus may not be an option. Transportation is a real problem in my community. It's dangerous to walk on hilly, curving roads with no sidewalks, busses run every 2 hours at the most and don't come to some areas, there is one cab company and the wait can be anywhere from 10-45 minutes.

I'm very, very thankful that I live right in town so I can go car-free just for the exercise if I so choose

DaveO

Would you drive him to a recovery program if he had no license?

choublak

No.

choublak

Was he an alcoholic when you first started dating?

I have them hanging up on my walls in my house.

Thumper

Neither one of us identified him as such but looking back - yes.

We were together 16 years. He was a binge drinker when we first met. That progressed to light daily drinking (2-3 beers) with occasional binges. This felt like a big improvement because 2-3 beers is nothing compared to getting completely obliterated. Woo - lets marry him! Eventually the binges went away but the daily drinking increased (6 pack, sometimes more). There were peaks and valleys so to speak. Things would improve for awhile (surrounding some life event) but then when things went back to 'normal' it was always just a little bit worse. He was drinking a lot (18-24) every day when we divorced. Not so high on the 'functional' scale at that point. He continued to drink, even more intensely, for another year and then checked himself into a long term inpatient treatment program and is in some kind of sober living environment now.

Excellent

m1k3

Slightly OT, but I took this to mean that you have alcoholics hanging up on the walls of your house. The mental picture made me LOL.


Your friend,

changeschoices

I'm ashamed to say that I spent almost a year driving my XABF around because he lost his license due to DUI. I drove him to work, I drove him to AA meetings, I drove him on errands, I drove him to his probation appointments. He never paid me a dime in gas, and he dumped me two months ago to focus on his recovery in AA, which he has since abandoned.

Now he is eligible to get his license back, but he doesn't have to $500 to do so yet. In addition, his car is completely dead since he didn't start it up or maintain it when he lost his license and took it off the road. I don't know if it's even repairable at this point, and he is so in debt he is filing bankruptcy, so I don't know how he'd be able to get another car.

He started a new job after he dumped me and he has to take the bus. His daily commute is about 5 hours/day. We spoke recently and he is exhausted and miserable, and very worried about getting his car back on the road before winter, since he has to do a lot of walking outdoors during his commute.

I think if I had not enabled him for a year, driving him around to the point where I was exhausted, bleeding money on gasoline, and resentful, he wouldn't have had the big pillow underneath him. I know he is miserable now, but maybe it's a reality check that will ultimately help him.

I helped him because I wanted to be supportive. All I did was delay the painful consequences of his DUI and alcoholism.

Thumper

:rotfxko

OMG that made me laugh! Like we were talking about some kind of psycho collection. Did you have this one for a long time? Hmm yes...and this one, was he an alcoholic when you started dating? Ahh...I see.

choublak

Was that really necessary?

wellnowwhat

With all due respect, you won't drive him around if he lost his license but you will take him back time after time even though you know another binge is on the horizon and you told him you don't like it but he does it anyway. Its the same thing and enabling is enabling no matter what form it takes.

While I still live with my AH I am fairly happy. I do not feel enabling because I don't fix his consequences, I don't lie for him, I don't cover for him and I am comfortable with the boundries I have set: no drunk driving, stay employed, no abuse of any kind, no drunk drama, no arrests; these are the biggies. I would leave over any of these.

I have not set the boundry of no drinking. He's not about to get recovery at this point, and I'm not ready to leave at this point. But make no mistake, he knows I don't like his drinking (but I no longer nag or chastise him about it) and he knows I know he drinks although he is a closet drinker. I feel that for the most part I've successively detached from this behaviour and can enjoy my life regardless.

For clarity: my AH is a quiet daily drinker, not a binger.

From reading the quote, and the many "thank you's", it seems the consensus is that unless you leave the active alcoholic (and go no contact?) that every thing else is enabling?

Is there no other option?

GettingBy

Thumper and Mike...

THANK YOU for the laugh this morning!! I desperately needed to find my sense of humor today. That was perfect!!

GettingBy

MY thank you was because I felt that Duq's post succinctly pointed out that there are sooo many different forms of enabling. Some of us may have clear boundaries on something that we know for certain to be enabling, but have many other behaviors that are enabling too... though we may not even realize it!! Passing judgement on what others may or may not do - does not help anyone reach recovery. Love and compassion and understanding for each person, flaws and all, are what helps bring us together!

I am, like you Wellnowwhat, still living with my active AH. I am taking this time to pour my heart and soul in ME and my recovery - and what I have learned is that my enabling runs deep. There were alot of obvious, "shootin' fish in a barrel" kind of actions that were easy to eliminate (ie. no nagging, asking him to not drink, drinking with him, scolding him for his behavior, etc).... but there are also subtle things I do that keep me engaged in the dance. My reactions to his bait - I used to fight back for myself - now I do my best to not react, but sometimes it's filled with sassy attitude (ah, I'm still part of the problem and giving him someone to blame!). So, I want to keep working on me to make sure that I am not enabling him. I do this, not for him, but for me.... so that I can look at myself with dignity and pride and know that I did the very best I could.

I love you all - thanks for letting me share!
Shannon

LaTeeDa

There are as many options as there are people. I can only share my feelings about it.

I view detachment as a temporary step, not a permanent solution. This is because I want more out of a relationship than that. Detaching is a way to bring more peace into my life in less than ideal circumstances. But, I didn't want a marriage based on detachment. To me, that's kind of an oxymoron.

The other thing is that, at least in the US, marriage includes financial responsibility. No matter how detached I was, my financial situation was more or less at the mercy of the alcoholic. He had every right to spend "our" money on whatever he wanted, and he did.

Different things work for different people. What's important is figuring out what works for you.

L

Freedom1990

My policy/boundary is I have an alcohol-free home. There is no wiggling or bargaining on that one.

That's exactly why the AD went out the front door, I changed the locks, and got a restraining order on her.

For me, and this is just my view, living with an active alcoholic is enabling. It's tolerating what I consider intolerable. It's saying it's okay to drink in my home, and that just doesn't work for me.

For you it's different.

I think the options are many.

m1k3

My experience. I have been married 36 years. She has been an active alcoholic the last 15 of them. She probably was before but at that time the drinking wasn't really a problem.

I left because I could not deal with it any more, it was killing me. She started off as a quiet drinker, even a happy drinker in the beginning. However it kept getting worse and worse. Getting mean and nasty, started drinking at all times of the day, drinking and driving (not much of that thank god) and she finally ended up in the emergency room because we found here unconscious with a bottle of pills and an empty bottle of Xanax. She was put in the behavioral care unit for a week and told to attend AA and rehab.

She did that, quit drinking and seemed to be getting better until she decided she didn't need that anymore. Her idiot Dr had given her ambien to help her sleep and she soon figured out this was as good as booze. For the first several years she only took them in the evening and at night. So, things were too bad and the sleeping pills didn't bring out the meanness like the booze did but she would get the equivalent of a drinking blackout on occasion. Last fall we went on vacation to a carribean island and she announced she wanted to drink again. Things started to go done hill after that. I didn't notice that she had been drinking that much, especially compared to before, but the combination of sleeping pills and booze lead to more and more blackouts. She finally went on a 6 day blackout binge. She had been babysitting for our one daughter and didn't even know what day it was and that she was supposed to be baby sitting. I had reached the end of my rope and moved out a couple of weeks later. Both adult daughters cut off contact with her and cut off her contact with the grandkids. She finally put her self into rehab and completed the program although there was a so-called suicide attempt in the middle of that which ended her back up in the behavioral care unit. She has completed the program and seems to be sticking with her rehab but at this point at least for me it doesn't really matter. Our marriage is over because I can never trust her again. I am not looking at divorce at this point because I am going to focus on my recovery for at least a year before I make any decisions, unless she goes active again. My one daughter who lives half way across the country has opened some limited contact with her mother and the one who lives locally has not.

The reason I am going through all this is because alcoholism is a progressive disease and unless the A goes into and sticks with a program it will get worse. You too can have the fun of emergency room visits, a naked drunken spouse passed out in any part of the house, passed out on the couch with a bowl of spaghetti spilled in their lap and a half chewed bit still in their mouth, finding food burning to a crisp and the A either passed out or they forgot they were cooking and didn't notice the smoke.

Read the things a normie doesn't know thread to get a glimpse into your probable future.

As they say an alcoholic either ends up in recovery, in jail or in the grave.

Welcome to your future.

wellnowwhat

Passing judgement on what others may or may not do - does not help anyone reach recovery.

I hope no one thinks I was doing this. Not my intention at all.

(This is why I like going through the questions from Step Study. When reading something it is almost always interpreted differently by each person there.)

My interpretion of the response was "if you are with the alcoholic, you are enabling" and I was surprised by that. While I try not to fix my AH, or prevent his bottom, etc., I don't like to think that unless I leave I am harming him. Hence my question. I had not considered my decision not to leave him as selfish.

I do try to focus on me and my behaviours and reactions and my recovery.

And it is not a "real" marriage anymore. I've grieved and let go of that already. I am not ready right now for a more real relationship with anyone else so the housemates thing is fine with me. It seems fine with him, too. We are polite, helpful to each other, etc. but not husband/wife anymore. For now, it seems to work.

Re financial matters: he leaves every decision to me. Refuses to participate. I explain what I do and why and where we are and he seems fine with it. And I try to be as honest and fair as I know how to be. He has a breathalyzer on his car and no access to other vehicles, so I don't worry about drunk driving.