Mariacombat

Hi everyone,*
I really need some advice from people who are or have been in a similar situation as mine, so I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read me! I am writing from Spain.

I've been dating my boyfriend now for 1year and 8 months. He's a recovering addict and will have been sober for 3 years the 25th august. He goes to group therapy twice per week and is extremely aware of the importance of it and follows almost all the advice he's given. He's also very much in touch with a couple of other recovering addicts from the group and the group therapist.

A part from being an addict, he's also bipolar and takes lithium.*

He has had 2 divorces and has 4 children, 2 from each wife. The youngest is 4yrs and the eldest is 17yrs. My boyfriend is 37yrs. I *am 35, divorced and have 0 children.

I knew his mother for 3 years before I met him and she set us up.*

The first year has been really up and down, his biggest problem was accepting that he was in a relationship. He would say that we're just friends and that he could never get married or have children again (he's had a vasectomy). That's always been fine with me as I don't want children and have also been told I probably couldn't have them anyway. I have read up and spoken to a therapist friend of mine who lives in South Africa about bipolar and also about addiction. I think I understand it pretty well and I'm very comfortable with it and accept it happily as I'm a very tranquil person and things don't get to me easily. I know I'm in love with him, I would spend the rest of my life with him, but his happiness and what is best for him is my main priority.

My boyfriend is a millionaire, I am not a millionaire, but have my own business and have my own *villa with pool and live more than a comfortable lifestyle. I am certainly not interested in his money, his mother set us up and I didn't even know who he was when I met him and liked him.
Both his ex-wives come from farm and lower class backgrounds and went with him for his money. He told me this and i suspect is true as they never worked and try to get more money off him all the time through court cases or blackmail.

I think and am pretty sure that he's becoming dependent on his group therapist. Ever since I've known him I have thought it strange that they have a friendship outside work. His therapist is 51 years old and also a recovering alcoholic. She's divorced with two kids in their late 20's, one is an addict and is in prison and the other is not an addict and has a healthy relationship with his girlfriend. The therapist has been clean for 18 years.

They speak on the phone almost every day, there's a small group of about 4 or 5 of them ( from the group therapy main group)that go on cruises and holidays together about 3 times a year or more. This group consists of the therapist, 2 women in their 50's (one married, the other divorced) and sometimes a guy in his late 50's who's also married.
The last trip they made was a 10 day cruise on my boyfriend's boat with my boyfriend. I am not allowed to go on these trips as I'm not an addict.
What is most upsetting about this particular trip on his boat is that in march he told me that he wouldn't take the boat out this year because it's too expensive to run and his businesses are not going well. Also his latest ex- wife is fighting through courts to get more money and he doesn't want it to look like he can afford to give her more by the judge seeing that he goes on expensive holidays... Well, in May he tells me he is taking the boat out with his friends and therapist just for 4 days somewhere close. I questioned if it was his idea or someone elses... He never lies to me and his expression was like he'd just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar! I reminded him of his responsibilities and told him that I thought his friends might be taking a bit of advantage of him. He replied that sometimes he had to do things because he had a commitment and that it benefitted him too sometimes. It went from a 4 day trip to a 10 day cruise!
I know that taking the boat out was the therapist's encouragement and that she even made him buy her a 1,500€ loewe handbag!!
He's soft and so easily manipulated, it's scary to see. She should be advising him not to spend his money right now! But mainly, shouldn't he be keeping his therapy to group sessions? And is it right that she goes to stay about 3 weekends per year in his house, they go out for dinners ( he always pays) and yesterday he told me they were going to buy a dog together! Yes, splitting the time -15 days each but they live in different cities 2 hours away from each other!
He's afraid of flying and wanted to take me to Rome for my birthday in September, but we discussed it and I I said that I didn't think he was ready to face that fear yet. This would be our first time away together (without his children) and that I thought we should just go for a short break not too far in the car, so that it was an enjoyable time for us both. Well, he mentioned it to the therapist who told him he should go to Rome (so he's booked it for 4 days) and then I find out that she's been trying to convince him to go on a cruise in November where he would have to catch a plane! Of course, if he comes to Rome with me he has no excuse not to go on that trip with her and their two other friends! Even if I get to go to Rome, I don't think it's a good idea for him right now.*
It seems to me like she's manipulating him and he's depending on her. He phones her to consult everything he does - if he should have the kids that weekend, if he should take that meeting at work... He even called her the other day because his stomach was hurting and when he couldn't get hold of her he became all anxious! *
I am not talking with him right now because it was yesterday that he told me he was going to buy a dog with her and we had an argument over the phone about it. He was extremely defensive telling me he didn't know why I would be so upset that he didn't need my permission to buy a dog. I asked him if he thought it was healthy to buy a dog with his therapist and he said he didn't see anything wrong. Acting in denial. He has huge responsibilities and commitments in his life. I told him I didn't think buying a dog was a good thing for him right now and he answered " who are you, my therapist?" all sarcastically.

I know and am positive that it's not a sexual relationship they have and that he's definitely not interested in her in that way. He's manipulating her to get an "easy life" without having to face the group with his issues all the time but he's depending on her now and it's scaring me. Talking about their relationship is a taboo and he defends her like crazy all the time. She doesn't like that he's in a relationship. She tells him that he can't be in a relationship with anyone because of how he is. I can sense that she envies me, no matter how nice and welcoming I try to be with her. I am planning to confront my boyfriend with this subject and prepared for him to probably attack me back saying I'm evil and trying to destroy his treatment by being jealous of his therapist. I also know that if he tells her, she will stop him from seeing me altogether. But I think that he's in big danger and could probably relapse *if she let's him down sometime. He sees her as the one who practically saved his life and is so scared of relapsing.... Its his biggest fear, of course. How can I tell him that the same person he thinks saved him is probably going to kill him?*
Please help... Sometimes I feel I should fight her and not let her win, but I have to think of me and my happiness too and watching her manipulate him and taking away a his self control and security is killing me inside. He can do this with group therapy and the right support, he doesn't need to depend on anyone, he just needs to be given the confidence. I'm afraid that if I stay with him in this situation I'll be the one picking up the pieces when she lets him down one day.*

Thanking you in advance for your time, advice and thoughts!

TakingCharge999

Hi Mariacombat,

The man sounds like a lot of drama and stress.

Are you going to therapy?

I recommend the book "Codependent no more" by Melody Beatty.

Welcome to SR!

Mariacombat

Hi Anvilhead,
Thanks so much for your reply. It's a real eye opener on me and how I view things. I am so glad I posted here.
I have a comfortable lifestyle, but I am also in love with him. I prefer to lose what I have than him. But I'm afraid that I won't have the strength to fight her... Or, as you say, maybe I'm just not accepting his life. But I lobe his children, his life and I feel I do accept it, but I am not sure his therapist is helping? Do you think I'm the problem?
Thanks for honesty

Mariacombat

Hi takingcharge999,

It is a lot of baggage but I'm fine with his life and issues, it's just the situation with the therapist... Isn't group therapy the best because it prevents addicts from depending on a person?

Thanks for the advice about the book... How do I know if Am I a codependent?

Mariacombat

Hi again takingcharge999,

I am not going to therapy. I suggested it to my bf who mentioned it to his therapist who said that I wouldn't benefit from going to the family group therapy because I met my bf as a recovering addict and that most family members there had been with the addict while they were active.
She suggested I talk to her or my bf if I need help or advice...

TakingCharge999

Hi again Maria!

Oh by therapist I mean, individual counseling, someone not related at all to the group you know or to your boyfriend. Having one has made a difference in my life...


From Nancy Wesson´s website:

CODEPENDENCY
What Is It? How Do I Know If I am Codependent and Relationships?

Questions & Answers: True or False

Without even realizing that it is happening, I find myself focusing on others needs even at my own expense.
When it is my turn to receive help from others I usually decline, as I am uneasy when others focus their attention on me.
I have many times taken pride in the fact that I am a "helper" with others, and I can easily postpone or deny my own needs.
I feel the best about myself when I am giving advice and/or handling a crisis situation.
Many times I have waited for others to take care of me in return, only to discover that it is never my turn.
Sometimes I am so focused on one person that I can only think about that person and how to help them.
I take good care of my friends. Most people like me because of what I can do for them.

If you answered true to most of the above questions, you are very likely codependent. To be codependent is to be skilled in the art of taking care of other people rather than of yourself.

If You are Codependent, Typically You:

Have a long history of focusing your thoughts and behavior on other people.
Are a "people pleaser" and will do almost anything to get the approval of others.
Seem very competent on the outside but on the inside feel quite needy, helpless, or perhaps nothing at all.
Have experienced abuse or emotional neglect as a child.
Are outwardly focused towards others, and know very little about how to direct your own life from your own sense of self

The codependent's self-concept has developed around the needs of others instead of developing in it's own right. As children, most codependents felt responsible for other family members' feelings or behavior. If a family member was unhappy or in trouble, the codependent child came to believe that it was his or her job to "fix it." Later as an adult, others came to depend upon this person for help, especially in crisis. This person, who was and is always so good at helping others, is you, the codependent.


Psychotherapy/Counseling
How psychotherapy can help you


In psychotherapy, you talk about yourself, express your own feelings and thoughts, and discuss life experiences. You identify the changes you need to make to increase your happiness and with the support of the psychotherapist, you go about making these life changes. You develop healthy, positive self-esteem, self acceptance, and a stronger sense of self.

In psychotherapy, it has been my experience that most people make profound life changes for the better as they learn to lead life from the inside out. That is many people learn how to direct their life according to what is best for them. Many of these life changes are in the form of more rewarding relationships, meaningful work, and the simple everyday enjoyment of life.

vujade

That might be a good indication...

I know this is so hard...so confusing. I certainly have put myself in some gut-wrenching situations. But that comment you made pierced my heart for you. I don't know that it is such a healthy thing to be in a relationship where not only would you give up yourself and what you have worked so hard for...but that you should even be in a position to have to think about that.

One thing I have learned through my own recovery is that when I focus on my own self, my own needs, my own recovery...I begin to trust myself more and more. And I now realize that when something FEELS wrong to me, I can trust that feeling.

Welcome to SR! This is an amazing community with wonderful people. Check out the stickies at the top of the forum. Check out the recommended readings. There is great peace to be had in life!

TakingCharge999

I can only talk from my own experience... group therapy helps me a great deal, BUT the therapist places good boundaries and she is not a "friend" nor encourages the group therapy PATIENTS to do things together as leisure. The topics are private and we meet once a month and the therapist is aware of what everyone says, guides the session, makes sure everyone understands how to provide feedback to others and if someone is inappropriate or out of the line she points it out.

I also know others who depend on their therapist in an unhealthy way, my mom was in therapy for 10! long years, including group therapy but there were no deep changes. Nowadays therapy shouldn´t last that long, 1 or 2 years at most (according to the therapists I know socially, anyway).


So in short the dynamic you described of that group is VERY UNHEALTHY! but it is not your role to "fix" it...

Mariacombat

Dear takingcharge999,

I am definitely codependent! Wow! Thanks so much for that... I guess this is a big thing to learn in my life... Also the last thing he needs in his life, i guess...

It answers everything! Thanks so much. Im quite emotional now. I'm extremely grateful, thanks.

Mariacombat

Thank you Vujade, thank you takingcharge999,

Seems like I have to think about myself more and worry about me. I have been neglecting my business lately because I've been thinking and putting him first.
Time to get my act together or I'll lose everything...

Thanks again! This is a great place

Mariacombat

Just one more question, if its ok....

Should i tell my bf that I'm codependent?

FindingPeace1

I so feel you on that question!
The fascinating thing is that codependency work teaches us that its not about him! You can tell YOU that you are codependent.

So what does that mean for you? Read Melody Beattie's books and read the stickies (permanent posts) at the top of the main friends and family forum page. Google codependency. Start to learn what it means and how to heal.

Do I think your RABF (recovering alcoholic boyfriend) has an unhealthy relationship with his therapist? Umm, if she's getting him to buy her handbags (yikes!)? Yes. Do you need to tell him that? No. You need to tell you that.

What does that mean for you? Is a person that is a recovering addict, with other issues a good mate for you? If he were not going to change or grow but be just as he is with his issues just as they are.

You get to decide that.

Many of us have learned that loving someone is not enough to make a relationship work. Eventually, many of us have started to review if they treat us as we want to be treated. If they make healthy choices that work for us, regardless of how much we love them. We look at what our bottom lines are of behavior - what we can accept and what we can't. Then we accept our partners as is and choose to be with them or not.

Some of us stay and work on setting boundaries around unhealthy behavior, keeping it out of our lives as much as we can while staying with our partners.
Some of us decide we can't accept their behaviors and we accept they aren't interested in change.

Stick around. We are glad you are here.

yours,
fp

Babyblue

Sounds like a therapist or counselor with very poor boundaries. I missed the part about the handbag. Oh my.

As for telling him, you do what feels right for YOU and how you will progress.

You know him best.

wellnowwhat

I am not going to therapy. I suggested it to my bf who mentioned it to his therapist who said that I wouldn't benefit from going to the family group therapy because I met my bf as a recovering addict and that most family members there had been with the addict while they were active.
She suggested I talk to her or my bf if I need help or advice...

There were several red flags in your story, in my eyes. This was one. I don't think any therapist would say this, and you don't know if she did or not, you have your BF's word. He may be saying this to protect his relationship with his therapist. If he is still exhibiting dry drunk behaviours and still affected by his addictions enough that he needs therapy, then it is likely that you need help with how this relationship may affect you.

The cruises and holidays seem "off" to me as something desirable for a group in therapy. A cruise or holiday is not a "retreat" as offered by some organizations.

And he should not be buying her gifts, in my mind, or sharing a dog.

I think, with alcoholics, you will be a distant 2nd or 3rd place while they are active and while they recover, until their recovery is completely part of who they now are. I don't read that your BF is healthy (based on what you said).

Please keep reading, consider Alanon if there is a group there or online, keep posting, see a counsellor or therapist independent of your BF, and just generally keep working on you.

Wishing you both the best.

Mariacombat

I love SR! All your comments are so helpful! I just one day you have made so much make sense in my life!
I am spending The weekend away with him and his kids. Yesterday he mentioned to me that his mother and his sister didn't seem to care much for his therapist lately and he aked me if I had any thoughts about why. I know his mother doesn't like his therapist for various reasons (his Mother's 81): the therapist encourages him to go on holidays, he has to drive 2 hours to therapy every week (she worries about the car and accidents), she doesn't have good manners when she stays with them....
I just tole him that it was probably to do with the driving. She's always worried and needs him to call when he's arrived somewhere.
He told me that he couldn't have his mother making his life difficult with his treatment and therapist, said the therapist was really upset and hurt about it. He also said that he was thinking of leaving the house he shares with his mother (she's only there in the day time) and that would I talk to her and put in a good word for his therapist. He also told me he would ask hid mother to call the therapist and tell her she loved her!

In the same conversation he said he hadn't been well lately, that the group have been telling him and that he should probably spend more time this week in group therapies. I really supported it and encouraged that decision by saying I would stay with his kids that week. (his kids are on hols with him for the month).

I mentioned to him that maybe he wad relying and depending too much on his therapist only. He defended himself saying that wasn't correct, that he called others in the group as well for things but that lots of times I probably didn't know.

Well, at least he might think about it. I still have to think about me and whether this is healthy for me, right? But I love him so much. For the first time in
my life I now understand the words in all the love songs! It really does feel like a physical pain in the heart...

I think he is in "active" behaviour right now...

All your messages are tremendous help, thank you!!

Hugs to all!

gowest

I am glad that you are learning so much about codependency and addiction here at SR.

As a point of reference, if a licensed therapist did what his therapist was doing they could be brought in front of the board of review and would most likely be censured or something more serious.

What you will learn is that the poor relationship he has with his therapist is his business - not yours.

You can't change it.

His mother is right and she can't change it.

Do you really want to have to tell half-truths (lying) to him about what his mother says regarding his therapist?
How does that make you feel?

Do you really want to spend YOUR time watching his children when it is his responsibility (even though you love them)?

I'm sorry you are in so much pain. Keep reading and welcome to SR.

m1k3

Maria, one of the big things your here on this board is:
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.

Doesn't matter if it's his drinking or his relationship with his therapist or whatever. He is responsibe for his own problems.

So, the big question is what are you going to do to improve the quality of your life. You wouldn't be here if you were content with how things are going. Since your life is being affected by someone else's use of alcohol I would recommend Al-Anon. I know my life has improved greatly since I began attending meetings. And Al-Anon is about you. It is not about him and it is not about learning how to live with an A. It is about giving you the tools and support on how to use them to allow you to reach a place where your life is yours again and you are happy with wheee you are, where ever that may be.

Your friend,

Mariacombat

Yeah... Put on paper like that, it's not the "cv" many would pick out of the bunch! But, of course, a part from all this history he has, there's him: A kind,loving, considerate, generous, extremely thoughtful, funny, kind, intelligent, sensitive guy... Who values life and everyone around him. It's what you all say though, he has his life as it is and if I want to be part of it I have to adjust to it, he's the one with the commitments, the routine...
He said that the summer messes up his routine, that it stresses him out and he needs to get back on track with himself and his routine. We've agreed to spend less time with eachother so we can each have our space. Wed and thurs his away in therapy, frid and sats we spend together and sun, mon and tues we leave as "open". We invite eachother to spend any of them together if we fancy it... See how it goes.

This space will do me good to get on track with myself, my life and to see if I really want to and can accept everything that comes with him.

All your comments are marvellous, they have certainly helped me to focus on myself. That's what I'm going to do. I'll keep on reading the posts and sticky's here and let you know how I get on!! Thanks so much SR... Xxxxx

TakingCharge999

Hola Mariacombat, (I am from Mexico.. )

I don´t know, I imagine you enjoying your life with someone without so much baggage.

Someone like you, without children, with hobbies and interests and freedom, someone who can make you one of his priorities in his life... someone as available as you.

In therapy I am learning what I receive has to be equal to what I give.

I am probably projecting here, as my parents divorced when I was 3. My dad did took care of bills and paid my University but that does not make you a father. I did go out with him and his "new" wife, along with my sister, but he never spent time alone with ME. Fast forward 26 years and this huge void is still coming up in therapy. Wounds like these go deep, more so because at that age you have no words to understand how you feel. Its just raw emotional abandonment.

There is a small kid who is 4 years old who is wondering why he or she is not good enough for his dad to be around. I would think a man who is kind, loving, considerate, generous, extremely thoughtful, funny, kind, intelligent, sensitive has his kids as no. 1 priority in his life (just after getting his act together - stop looking for Mommy figures elsewhere)?

What will happen if you have kids with him. He will have kids then leave and get someone else, just as he has done twice already. Or do you think he will be different with you?

I hope you don´t take this as offensive I just wonder how his 2 divorces and 4 kids and his time spent with other people are seen lightly, perhaps it is not a big deal to him but it IS a big deal. He did not learn anything after his first divorce, had to repeat the story all over again.

There are 6 people out there he has hurt, we don´t know about the wives but there are 4 kids who need to feel important for their dad and I just don´t see it.

From my viewpoint you have been very smart and it seems you are adding yourself to someone´s messed up life, instead of creating yours (which could be way more satisfying, rich, interesting, relaxing)... anyway I am glad you are taking more time for yourself.....

Hope none of this sounded offensive, take it with a grain of salt as I have never been married (but I know well the feeling of growing up, becoming a woman and having your dad fooling around somewhere else, and acting as if its no big deal)

Mariacombat

Hola takingcharge999!

Thank you for your post, of course you haven't offended me, I really appreciate your thoughts and I'm sorry to hear the sad story about your dad... I hope you come to terms with it through therapy and you grow positively from it.

From my original post, it sounds like all my bf does is go on holidays and spend time with his therapist... That's because that's the part that's been bugging me.
He does see his children, as much and as often as he can. By law the little ones spend every 2nd weekends with him, he would see them much more often if he was allowed to. He loves them dearly and spends all his time with them when they are with him. No one gets in the way of that... I love them too and they love me, so we all spend time together. The little kids only really know their father with me, his ex wouldn't let him see them and blackmails him. He had to fight for them. When he won the rights to see them I was already part of his life.

The older kids, 17 and 15 live with their mum but stay with him as they choose now. Most weekends they go to see him and in the week occasionally. His son has spent most of the summer with him out of his own choice. They get on really well with me too and always ask if I'm going to be coming to the different things they plan. So we are like a happy family when we're together. He has lots of time for them. I would never expect him to have to "choose" between me or them. He can have both! I'm included in everything and I never feel excluded or "an outsider". If we ever do split up, I'll be losing a family, not just a boyfriend.
I've been told it would be very difficult for me to have children and he's had a vasectomy, so the thought of having children together isn't in either of our minds.

He's bipolar and was only diagnosed 3 years ago. They are very insecure and easily manipulated people. His ex wives went after him for his money and still continue! He got married very young the first time and the second time the wife definitely trapped him by falling pregnant. He's catholic and did what he thought was the right thing by marrying her and trying to make the relationship work. At the time he was actively an addict, so you can get the picture.. *It went from bad to worse.*
He's scared of making another mistake with me, so he's careful and won't throw himself at the relationship. His biggest fear is relapsing and a broken heart could create that. This is how I see his history, we all have one and we all deserve a second chance. I'm not with him to be the "angel" to guard and protect him. I have fallen in love with him and I am weighing up the good and the bad... Being here has opened my eyes to "thinking the right way" can I be with him as the situation is if it was this way forever?*

The wonderful part is that we had a chat last Sunday. I told him my thoughts about the therapist and everything mentioned here. It was amazing! He listened and debated his view and considered my feelings. He explained that the therapist was extremely important in his life, but that so was I. He said that he would make an effort to contact others in the group more often, instead of always turning to her.*
He cares about me and my feelings and will do things differently when he can,but that he can't and wont change the way it is.*
I was really impressed with his response and feel so much better for talking to him. He will maintain his relationships and trips but will bare me and my feelings in mind and try to do things differently when he can.
I never wanted him to change, I just was concerned about the relationship with the therapist and now I see that he's in some control of it and that he's also aware of me.

I feel really happy and want this to work, but have already started thinking more of myself and doing my things.*
Even in just a few days I feel the difference! I'm happier with my work, I feel more relaxed and organised in my life. I've been making plans with friends... and he's just as fine! In fact, there seems to be less pressure already! It's fab. I'm going to Madrid for a few days tomorrow to spend time with my family, it coincides with his children coming, but I'll see them tonight and the following weekend... *I feel as if I have my own life, not just living in his! *I think that before I sort of had a little bit of resentment because I did so much for him and his life... I always put him first and subconsciously this created an expectation which I had no right to have. Now, I realise that he loves me for me... He wants me to have my life, he have his life and be together with our independence. He doesn't "need" me and I don't "need" him. We are together because we want to.*

It's really wonderful and its all thanks to you and all at SR- thank you!!*