Do they ever recover?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 23
Do they ever recover?
I've have a lurked here for awhile but I have a couple of questions I want to run by everyone.
I've been married to my AW for 30 years give or take. She's been a functional A for about the last 4. Most of the day she is the caring and loving woman that I married But early in the evening when the bottle comes out all bets are off. Where she was generally happy and pleasant before she becomes sullen, angry and depressed. And on those special occasions she can Be verbally abusive towards me. At these times she is daring me to argue with her, loves to play mind games, and blames me for all of her problems. Sound familiar?
My first question deals with the vast majority of posts I have seen here. From what I have seen it appears that the only success stories are from people who finally had enough and left. I haven't seen many stories of being able to help your significant other through therapy and somehow rebuilding a life together. Has anyone been able to successfully do that or is this just a waiting game until (if ever) I finally reach my threshold?
Second question deals with my daughters ages 9 and 14. If I do leave what are the odds of my getting them? My AW cleans up pretty well and as I said is functional.
Any thoughts on either question are eagerly appreciated.
I've been married to my AW for 30 years give or take. She's been a functional A for about the last 4. Most of the day she is the caring and loving woman that I married But early in the evening when the bottle comes out all bets are off. Where she was generally happy and pleasant before she becomes sullen, angry and depressed. And on those special occasions she can Be verbally abusive towards me. At these times she is daring me to argue with her, loves to play mind games, and blames me for all of her problems. Sound familiar?
My first question deals with the vast majority of posts I have seen here. From what I have seen it appears that the only success stories are from people who finally had enough and left. I haven't seen many stories of being able to help your significant other through therapy and somehow rebuilding a life together. Has anyone been able to successfully do that or is this just a waiting game until (if ever) I finally reach my threshold?
Second question deals with my daughters ages 9 and 14. If I do leave what are the odds of my getting them? My AW cleans up pretty well and as I said is functional.
Any thoughts on either question are eagerly appreciated.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 451
Little Apple
Visit a sight called empoweredrecovery .. there is a free, downloadable book called the ER Recovery Guide to Resolving an Alcoholic Relationship or something like that. It helped me to understand all the dynamics in the relationship so I can make the choice for my own recovery to find happiness. I can't change my ABF, I can't even seem to get him to understand how much pain he causes me with his love of alcohol.
In the Empowered Recovery book basically the author, Doug (I forget his last name) says there are two choices to absolving an AR and they are to live with the alcoholic only if they seek recovery and stop drinking or two to leave the situation. Eventually the relationship will be resolved and the longer you take to resolve it, the harder it is going to be. It provided me great insight into my own faults in allowing myself to accept so little for myself in the form of a relationship.
Hope that info can help you some.
Visit a sight called empoweredrecovery .. there is a free, downloadable book called the ER Recovery Guide to Resolving an Alcoholic Relationship or something like that. It helped me to understand all the dynamics in the relationship so I can make the choice for my own recovery to find happiness. I can't change my ABF, I can't even seem to get him to understand how much pain he causes me with his love of alcohol.
In the Empowered Recovery book basically the author, Doug (I forget his last name) says there are two choices to absolving an AR and they are to live with the alcoholic only if they seek recovery and stop drinking or two to leave the situation. Eventually the relationship will be resolved and the longer you take to resolve it, the harder it is going to be. It provided me great insight into my own faults in allowing myself to accept so little for myself in the form of a relationship.
Hope that info can help you some.
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,964
I am recovered of my obsession to drink because once I drink any alcohol, my physical allergy creates a situation where I can't stop consuming (many) more. I am recovered but not cured. My recovery is based on my spiritual conditioning. I attend a 12 step program. They are available for family members, too. I know many relationships saved when partners are focused on themselves.
Peace to you
Peace to you
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 218
As a sober member of AA, I have seen many relationships that have seemed to "recover" through sobriety and usually AA and Alanon. But as an alcoholic, I had to be willing to go to any lengths for sobriety, and no amount of begging or pleading by anyone would help until I was ready.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
Little Apple, I am in a similar place, except that my AW is not really abusive when drunk. She does, however, become quite defensive and hostile if Daughter or I confront her about her drinking. We've also been married 30 years, but she is no longer the person I married. Her drinking has grown gradually worse over the last three or four years.
She drinks a little every day, and two or three times a week she drinks herself into a stupor. She's fallen several times, and broke her ankle late last year.
I, too, have wondered if there is any way to force her into a program, but everything I read here and on other websites says it's not likely to work unless she wants to quit.
My current plan is to work on keeping myself sane and holding things together until our daughter (19) moves out. After that, if AW hasn't had a revelation, I will most likely begin moving toward a divorce.
This is probably not a perfect plan, but it's all I got right now.
Good luck, and keep posting. There are many helpful people here.
She drinks a little every day, and two or three times a week she drinks herself into a stupor. She's fallen several times, and broke her ankle late last year.
I, too, have wondered if there is any way to force her into a program, but everything I read here and on other websites says it's not likely to work unless she wants to quit.
My current plan is to work on keeping myself sane and holding things together until our daughter (19) moves out. After that, if AW hasn't had a revelation, I will most likely begin moving toward a divorce.
This is probably not a perfect plan, but it's all I got right now.
Good luck, and keep posting. There are many helpful people here.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by LittleApple 
My first question deals with the vast majority of posts I have seen here. From what I have seen it appears that the only success stories are from people who finally had enough and left. I haven't seen many stories of being able to help your significant other through therapy and somehow rebuilding a life together. Has anyone been able to successfully do that or is this just a waiting game until (if ever) I finally reach my threshold?
Second question deals with my daughters ages 9 and 14. If I do leave what are the odds of my getting them? My AW cleans up pretty well and as I said is functional.
Any thoughts on either question are eagerly appreciated.
Second question deals with my daughters ages 9 and 14. If I do leave what are the odds of my getting them? My AW cleans up pretty well and as I said is functional.
Any thoughts on either question are eagerly appreciated.
I highly recommend attending some open AA meetings as well as Al-Anon meetings. You'll find couples who have managed to stay together throughout the recovery process but it takes a real strong commitment on both sides to focus on their own recovery. We on this side of the equation use the term "recovery" to describe our own path to recovering from the effects of living with an addict/alcoholic. It takes its toll on everyone...hence the term "family disease".
I can't answer the question about your daughters - that is a good lawyer question! But I can say that at their ages, they are well aware of what is going on in your home and experiencing their own sense of alcoholic induced chaos.
Read as much as you can about alcoholism and do get a consultation with a lawyer on your options. Even if you do nothing - the education is often a relief...just knowing there is another way can get us through the day, month, or even years.
Welcome and keep coming back!
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
I agree with Tuffgirl.
First the 3 c's. You didn't cause it, you can't cure it, you can't control it. So what I recommend is to go to al-anon and start working your own recovery. You can have a success story whether or not she does.
I left my AW of 38 years back in late May of this year and started al-anon. I am in a much better place now. Both of my adult daughters as well as myself have set boundaries on what we would consider acceptable behavior, this was done to protect us not to control my wife. She has started rehab and is actually starting to look like she is getting it. I hope my wife gets better and I would prefer for us to be able to recover our marriage. I am at a point in my recovery though that I can accept either outcome. I just need to practice patience and let her manage her own recovery. It will either work or it won't but I don't own that problem anymore.
I don't know if that counts as a success story but it works for me. I am in a good place and she is working towards being in a good place. Don't know what it means for 'us' but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Your friend,
First the 3 c's. You didn't cause it, you can't cure it, you can't control it. So what I recommend is to go to al-anon and start working your own recovery. You can have a success story whether or not she does.
I left my AW of 38 years back in late May of this year and started al-anon. I am in a much better place now. Both of my adult daughters as well as myself have set boundaries on what we would consider acceptable behavior, this was done to protect us not to control my wife. She has started rehab and is actually starting to look like she is getting it. I hope my wife gets better and I would prefer for us to be able to recover our marriage. I am at a point in my recovery though that I can accept either outcome. I just need to practice patience and let her manage her own recovery. It will either work or it won't but I don't own that problem anymore.
I don't know if that counts as a success story but it works for me. I am in a good place and she is working towards being in a good place. Don't know what it means for 'us' but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Your friend,
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 23
Thank you all of the encouragement and kind words. Tuffgirl, you are right about my daughters. I know for a fact my 14 year old has been effected by all of this and am very worried about how this will effect them in the future. I have downloaded the EmpoweredRecovery.com book and read the first few chapters. It also talks about how one of my primary goals should be protecting my children. I have been so inward focused that I haven't really thought hard about that.
It's going to be a long tough road but one I feel I better start down sooner than later. Thanks again for the support!
It's going to be a long tough road but one I feel I better start down sooner than later. Thanks again for the support!
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Your 14 yo is old enough to start ala-teen, I would recommend that and al-anon for you. It' seems like it might be time for you to start working on making yourself and your family sane again.
Your friend,
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 451
Little by little, day by day, as we start to recognize our own shortcomings and why we have allowed this to happen in our lives and why we have chosen to accept such a bad relationship for ourselves, only then can we become strong enough to do what is the right choice for us.
When there are kids involved, the process needs to be thought about with extra attention given to how they are seeing the situation as well.
My 19 month old son KNOWS that the beer bottles in the house are dads. He picks them up and gives them to him, not me, but HIM. So, on some level he understands what is going on. He also gets very moody, anxious and sad when his dad is drinking and we are arguing. He gets anxious being dropped off at the babysitters when times around the house are tense. Children, especially older children, know what is going on. It is a parent's job to protect their livelihood. That has to be the primary focus IMO.
Keep posting, re-read what you post, keep getting the support and open up to people in your life you CAN trust.
You WILL make it out of the darkness!
When there are kids involved, the process needs to be thought about with extra attention given to how they are seeing the situation as well.
My 19 month old son KNOWS that the beer bottles in the house are dads. He picks them up and gives them to him, not me, but HIM. So, on some level he understands what is going on. He also gets very moody, anxious and sad when his dad is drinking and we are arguing. He gets anxious being dropped off at the babysitters when times around the house are tense. Children, especially older children, know what is going on. It is a parent's job to protect their livelihood. That has to be the primary focus IMO.
Keep posting, re-read what you post, keep getting the support and open up to people in your life you CAN trust.
You WILL make it out of the darkness!
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to the SR family!
Pull out the keyboard and make yourself at home by reading and posting as much as possible. We understand!
This is one of my favorite links. It contains steps that helped me while living with active alcoholism from my spouse.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
I also recommend checking with a lawyer (most will give you a free consultation) to answer questions about your legal rights according to your community.
Pull out the keyboard and make yourself at home by reading and posting as much as possible. We understand!
This is one of my favorite links. It contains steps that helped me while living with active alcoholism from my spouse.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...l-problem.html
I also recommend checking with a lawyer (most will give you a free consultation) to answer questions about your legal rights according to your community.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
It's been my personal experience, from being around the rooms of AA since 1986, the odds are not good for long-term recovery. Within my AA group, my former sponsor is coming up on 30 years, my current sponsor celebrated 30 years recently, I have 21 years, there is one fellow with 5, and one with almost 3. The rest tend to come and go, and it's the "revolving door" you will often hear AAers talk about. We're lucky to see someone make it to a year.
Recovery is hard work. It is not for wussies!
Recovery is hard work. It is not for wussies!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by Freedom1990
It's been my personal experience, from being around the rooms of AA since 1986, the odds are not good for long-term recovery...The rest tend to come and go, and it's the "revolving door" you will often hear AAers talk about. We're lucky to see someone make it to a year.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by AVRT
That's because nobody ever tells those "chronic relapsers" to stop doing the same thing over and over again, and to try something other than to just keep coming back. The odds for long-term recovery are good if people use an approach that is amenable to their temperament.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 293
Hello Apple,
My first question deals with the vast majority of posts I have seen here. From what I have seen it appears that the only success stories are from people who finally had enough and left. I haven't seen many stories of being able to help your significant other through therapy and somehow rebuilding a life together. Has anyone been able to successfully do that or is this just a waiting game until (if ever) I finally reach my threshold?
I do think it's possible (your first question), but I think it has to happen "organically."
I have seen it happen a lot in my family and my extended family. My parents have been married over 50 years (my father has been sober for 25 years). My uncles and aunts, most of them have been married 50 and 60 years, majority of those years in sobriety (not necessarily "recovery.") Of course these relationships are far from perfect. Ideally, if they sought recovery (in addition to sobriety), I think their marriages would improve significantly. I think they see it as "The drinking has stopped. Problem solved." Therefore, they still have issues and problems. And because "recovery" (e.g. 12-steps, therapy, etc.) wasn't part of their sobriety, there have been challenges from both the addict and the non-addict/codie (especially from the non-addict!) However, what I can say is that I see a lot of genuine love, compassion, and caring in my parents' marriage and my extended family members' marriages in which alcohol addiction was present (both actively and in sobriety).
(But, along the way in these marriages, many of the children got hurt. Some of these scars are lifelong. I have a bunch of them! Alcoholism hurts a lot of people, not just the addicted, unfortunately.)
Second question deals with my daughters ages 9 and 14. If I do leave what are the odds of my getting them? My AW cleans up pretty well and as I said is functional.
I'd seek the advice of a mediator or attorney specializing in family law in your state.
I hope your AW finds recovery. I hope you and your children can heal (living in such close proximity to alcohol addiction is so toxic). Protecting them, being their number one advocate and being the healthy parent in their lives are the most important thing. In order to do this, you need to take care of you, Apple! This forum is a great place for support (and lots of wisdom)!
My first question deals with the vast majority of posts I have seen here. From what I have seen it appears that the only success stories are from people who finally had enough and left. I haven't seen many stories of being able to help your significant other through therapy and somehow rebuilding a life together. Has anyone been able to successfully do that or is this just a waiting game until (if ever) I finally reach my threshold?
I do think it's possible (your first question), but I think it has to happen "organically."
I have seen it happen a lot in my family and my extended family. My parents have been married over 50 years (my father has been sober for 25 years). My uncles and aunts, most of them have been married 50 and 60 years, majority of those years in sobriety (not necessarily "recovery.") Of course these relationships are far from perfect. Ideally, if they sought recovery (in addition to sobriety), I think their marriages would improve significantly. I think they see it as "The drinking has stopped. Problem solved." Therefore, they still have issues and problems. And because "recovery" (e.g. 12-steps, therapy, etc.) wasn't part of their sobriety, there have been challenges from both the addict and the non-addict/codie (especially from the non-addict!) However, what I can say is that I see a lot of genuine love, compassion, and caring in my parents' marriage and my extended family members' marriages in which alcohol addiction was present (both actively and in sobriety).
(But, along the way in these marriages, many of the children got hurt. Some of these scars are lifelong. I have a bunch of them! Alcoholism hurts a lot of people, not just the addicted, unfortunately.)
Second question deals with my daughters ages 9 and 14. If I do leave what are the odds of my getting them? My AW cleans up pretty well and as I said is functional.
I'd seek the advice of a mediator or attorney specializing in family law in your state.
I hope your AW finds recovery. I hope you and your children can heal (living in such close proximity to alcohol addiction is so toxic). Protecting them, being their number one advocate and being the healthy parent in their lives are the most important thing. In order to do this, you need to take care of you, Apple! This forum is a great place for support (and lots of wisdom)!
Last edited by yorkiegirl; 08-10-2011 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Shortened
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by LawMama
I disagree. I think it is because alcohol is cunning, baffling, and powerful. Throughout the ages, the recovery rate with ANY program has been low. Glad you found a program that works for you, though.
For the record, neither I nor anyone in my family has used the Saint Jude program, nor do I have any vested interest in it.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: California, USA
Posts: 293
I find 12-steps very useful
If indeed alcoholism is a "disease" is there any disease that has a 100% cure rate? And what do we mean by "curing" addiction? Is addiction a chronic condition that has to be managed or can it ever be fully "cured?"
In my family, eventually most of those who suffer from alcohol addiction quit. Sadly, a few do not. The majority, however, remain sober for most/rest of their lives. They are still "afflicted" with alcoholism since they can not ever drink alcohol socially or casually. To me, "a cure" would mean that one is no longer addicted to alcohol and therefore would be able to drink alcohol socially and casually, although I am not an M.D. who specializes in addiction. Is that what we mean by "cure?" (I have heard of programs that advocate "controlled drinking." I'm not sure if they are still around or not).
I used to be adverse to 12-steps *until* I saw how it works for some people. (I guess it works if they work it, as the saying goes.) I used to think that my family members who stopped drinking on their own were amazing. I still think they are amazing, but I also realize now that in addition to quitting alcohol, they need to address some of the underlying psychological/family issues that drove them to drink (or that made them handle their issues by drinking alcohol) and thus undertake recovery, not just sobriety. *And* those around them who are not alcohol addicts could also use recovery as well.
I myself don't work the 12-steps, I have never formally worked the steps, and I don't have a sponsor (and don't plan to get a sponsor). I do, however, read some of the 12-step literature I find helpful (the serenity prayer is a big one), go to meetings when I can (to meditate, to soak up some good ES&H of others, and to take a moment for myself and hear myself breathe). When I first saw/read the 12 steps (not so much the traditions), I realized that I had done pretty much all 12 steps (not systematically) even before I had gotten to Alanon without ever knowing that that's what I had been doing. The 12-steps packages nicely and in a structured way "lessons for living." I find it quite helpful, regardless of the alcohol addicts in my life (who are all sober). Going to Alanon, for me, serves as a refresher and reminder to be a good human being. It makes me feel good.
I love high probabilities. High probabilities (especially in terms of disease cure rates) give me a lot of hope, as well as a good gauge for assessment for treatment (e.g. cancer, diabetes, hypertension, alcohol addiction, etc.). However, if my own individual situation is not part of those statistics, it doesn't really mean anything. I am not discounting these statistics. They are useful. If AA works for some people, even if it's a tiny minority, I think it's great for that tiny minority!
I wish recovery for everyone and hope each of you and your loved ones can find a method that works for you.
In my family, eventually most of those who suffer from alcohol addiction quit. Sadly, a few do not. The majority, however, remain sober for most/rest of their lives. They are still "afflicted" with alcoholism since they can not ever drink alcohol socially or casually. To me, "a cure" would mean that one is no longer addicted to alcohol and therefore would be able to drink alcohol socially and casually, although I am not an M.D. who specializes in addiction. Is that what we mean by "cure?" (I have heard of programs that advocate "controlled drinking." I'm not sure if they are still around or not).
I used to be adverse to 12-steps *until* I saw how it works for some people. (I guess it works if they work it, as the saying goes.) I used to think that my family members who stopped drinking on their own were amazing. I still think they are amazing, but I also realize now that in addition to quitting alcohol, they need to address some of the underlying psychological/family issues that drove them to drink (or that made them handle their issues by drinking alcohol) and thus undertake recovery, not just sobriety. *And* those around them who are not alcohol addicts could also use recovery as well.
I myself don't work the 12-steps, I have never formally worked the steps, and I don't have a sponsor (and don't plan to get a sponsor). I do, however, read some of the 12-step literature I find helpful (the serenity prayer is a big one), go to meetings when I can (to meditate, to soak up some good ES&H of others, and to take a moment for myself and hear myself breathe). When I first saw/read the 12 steps (not so much the traditions), I realized that I had done pretty much all 12 steps (not systematically) even before I had gotten to Alanon without ever knowing that that's what I had been doing. The 12-steps packages nicely and in a structured way "lessons for living." I find it quite helpful, regardless of the alcohol addicts in my life (who are all sober). Going to Alanon, for me, serves as a refresher and reminder to be a good human being. It makes me feel good.
I love high probabilities. High probabilities (especially in terms of disease cure rates) give me a lot of hope, as well as a good gauge for assessment for treatment (e.g. cancer, diabetes, hypertension, alcohol addiction, etc.). However, if my own individual situation is not part of those statistics, it doesn't really mean anything. I am not discounting these statistics. They are useful. If AA works for some people, even if it's a tiny minority, I think it's great for that tiny minority!
I wish recovery for everyone and hope each of you and your loved ones can find a method that works for you.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: « USA » Recovered with AVRT (Rational Recovery) ___________
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl
If indeed alcoholism is a "disease" is there any disease that has a 100% cure rate? And what do we mean by "curing" addiction? Is addiction a chronic condition that has to be managed or can it ever be fully "cured?"
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl
In my family, eventually most of those who suffer from alcohol addiction quit. Sadly, a few do not. The majority, however, remain sober for most/rest of their lives.I used to think that my family members who stopped drinking on their own were amazing.
Originally Posted by yorkiegirl
I myself don't work the 12-steps, I have never formally worked the steps, and I don't have a sponsor (and don't plan to get a sponsor). I do, however, read some of the 12-step literature I find helpful (the serenity prayer is a big one), go to meetings when I can (to meditate, to soak up some good ES&H of others, and to take a moment for myself and hear myself breathe).
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
Never. Unless they want to, and according to your post she doesn't want to. You will be waiting for this to happen until one of you dies unless she decides she wants to be sober.
Besides, you don't live with her sober, you live with her as an alcoholic and that's not changing any time soon. You can't change her. If this is the life you want keep leading it. If it isn't, face reality and change it.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
Besides, you don't live with her sober, you live with her as an alcoholic and that's not changing any time soon. You can't change her. If this is the life you want keep leading it. If it isn't, face reality and change it.
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
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