::sigh:: "Me too."
Digitally Remastered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Samsara
Posts: 102
::sigh:: "Me too."
Before I go maudlin let me wish all o' you guys a Happy Thanksgiving!
Went out this morning for coffee and then to get some reading materials for my trip for the Holidays. Found a book on ADoA's (for my beloved, S.O. - and doesn't it always work out that way?) and my friend said: "You're one too!" [I am in AA and she wants me to get to Al-Anon when I have gotten through my steps.]
I considered it and she was right. She was even more right when I read the freaking thing. Have only glanced and made note on a few pertinent parts but I'm nailed. It's me. I was in Alateen in H.S. and I thought it was because of my Dad. BUT...I have discovered that with my Mom being an ADoA and with HER behaviors and marrying my (current) Dad 16 years ago, it's as applicable to her - the entire family has been affected!
"Intense fear of drawing attention to oneself." One of the characteristics I had no idea of, but kept me in paralyzing fear my entire adult life. Even in AA I thought I would DIE if I ever *had* to share.
One part I read a little while ago and started crying to the point my SO asked me what was wrong...It was a flowchart comparing how a non-alcoholic family vs alcoholic family will affect a child in trauma. SO, long story short...I've been in "chronic shock" with unresolved emotions. [AA has helped with that - thank God I was an alcoholic...hehe. I know that sounds funny, but how else would I have found recovery I was in such denial that my whole upbringing was dysfunctional.]
I knew on a superficial layer it was dysfunctional but to just see, in black and white, how dysfunctionally it affected ME was a bit on the shock value side. So great. NOW, when I go away for the Holidays INTO this situation of dysfunction and stay sober too...I am VERY grateful for this forum.
[I'm hanging in the AA forum usually but since I don't believe in coincidences there was a reason THIS morning, of all mornings I found this book, identified it, and remembered this forum was here....all when in 2 days I'll be headed back to the Lion's den so to speak.]
Can anyone give me some pointers/experience? Mom is a control freak who enjoys dispensing unsolicited and very unwelcome advice on matters she has no knowledge. We don't speak of white elephants. Dad pretty much stays *numb* [drunk] and isolated. I love them both very much and if I weren't an alcoholic in recovery I'd stay drunk the whole time - as is my pattern when I am there. That, however, is no longer a solution for me anymore.
I appreciate ALL responses.
Digits
Went out this morning for coffee and then to get some reading materials for my trip for the Holidays. Found a book on ADoA's (for my beloved, S.O. - and doesn't it always work out that way?) and my friend said: "You're one too!" [I am in AA and she wants me to get to Al-Anon when I have gotten through my steps.]
I considered it and she was right. She was even more right when I read the freaking thing. Have only glanced and made note on a few pertinent parts but I'm nailed. It's me. I was in Alateen in H.S. and I thought it was because of my Dad. BUT...I have discovered that with my Mom being an ADoA and with HER behaviors and marrying my (current) Dad 16 years ago, it's as applicable to her - the entire family has been affected!
"Intense fear of drawing attention to oneself." One of the characteristics I had no idea of, but kept me in paralyzing fear my entire adult life. Even in AA I thought I would DIE if I ever *had* to share.
One part I read a little while ago and started crying to the point my SO asked me what was wrong...It was a flowchart comparing how a non-alcoholic family vs alcoholic family will affect a child in trauma. SO, long story short...I've been in "chronic shock" with unresolved emotions. [AA has helped with that - thank God I was an alcoholic...hehe. I know that sounds funny, but how else would I have found recovery I was in such denial that my whole upbringing was dysfunctional.]
I knew on a superficial layer it was dysfunctional but to just see, in black and white, how dysfunctionally it affected ME was a bit on the shock value side. So great. NOW, when I go away for the Holidays INTO this situation of dysfunction and stay sober too...I am VERY grateful for this forum.
[I'm hanging in the AA forum usually but since I don't believe in coincidences there was a reason THIS morning, of all mornings I found this book, identified it, and remembered this forum was here....all when in 2 days I'll be headed back to the Lion's den so to speak.]
Can anyone give me some pointers/experience? Mom is a control freak who enjoys dispensing unsolicited and very unwelcome advice on matters she has no knowledge. We don't speak of white elephants. Dad pretty much stays *numb* [drunk] and isolated. I love them both very much and if I weren't an alcoholic in recovery I'd stay drunk the whole time - as is my pattern when I am there. That, however, is no longer a solution for me anymore.
I appreciate ALL responses.
Digits
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Digits,
In so many ways we are the same. I started Alanon with a chip on my shoulder and after some time I started seeing the same character defects in me that are in the AA members.
SURPRISE!! In a lot of ways I am blessed to be a codie vs and addict but I will always be the child of an alcoholic.
With out that I might not know what I know today!
Hugs,
JT
In so many ways we are the same. I started Alanon with a chip on my shoulder and after some time I started seeing the same character defects in me that are in the AA members.
SURPRISE!! In a lot of ways I am blessed to be a codie vs and addict but I will always be the child of an alcoholic.
With out that I might not know what I know today!
Hugs,
JT
Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 610
Digits,
I was pretty shocked to realise that I had the characteristics as well. I always thought that what I went through was pretty normal and that I was making a big deal out of nothing if I even considered it unhealthy.
There is a strange kind of mixed emotions for me when I think of my family. Its as if the people who I thought I knew are not those people at all and I wonder if I really know them. Then there is a great relief in knowing that I don't have to fall into the cycle of blame anymore because I am now aware that it is happening.
Its also quite sad for me sometimes because in a way I'm grieving the family I thought I had. I see the same old routines and I know I don't belong anymore. I can't buy into it in the same way that I used to and that can get lonely in family type gatherings.
AA is meeting my needs at the moment as far as understanding and support goes. It's not easy to see my family differently, but it sure beats the alternative - getting caught up in the cycle.
Another positive benefit is that I don't manipulate as much to get that understanding and support from them anymore so I have a far better chance of accepting them just as they are and loving them all the same.
Amy
I was pretty shocked to realise that I had the characteristics as well. I always thought that what I went through was pretty normal and that I was making a big deal out of nothing if I even considered it unhealthy.
There is a strange kind of mixed emotions for me when I think of my family. Its as if the people who I thought I knew are not those people at all and I wonder if I really know them. Then there is a great relief in knowing that I don't have to fall into the cycle of blame anymore because I am now aware that it is happening.
Its also quite sad for me sometimes because in a way I'm grieving the family I thought I had. I see the same old routines and I know I don't belong anymore. I can't buy into it in the same way that I used to and that can get lonely in family type gatherings.
AA is meeting my needs at the moment as far as understanding and support goes. It's not easy to see my family differently, but it sure beats the alternative - getting caught up in the cycle.
Another positive benefit is that I don't manipulate as much to get that understanding and support from them anymore so I have a far better chance of accepting them just as they are and loving them all the same.
Amy
Digitally Remastered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Samsara
Posts: 102
JT & Amy-.
Thank you for responding. That's very comforting to know I am not alone. Even in AA [my alcoholism- I should say], although it *did* feel like I was *coming home* to people who understood me and could see that they were so much like me...some things did keep me insecure even in AA...
- Like not being able to share [extreme fear...paralyzing. I considered medication.]
- Intense fear of not being validated ["You're really not one of us.]
- Feeling guilt over establishing my boundaries. [I couldn't do it.]
- So scared and worried my sponsor wouldn't like me if she knew the *real* truth about me.
The qualities here and in the book I am reading...I can see branching out ESPECIALLY starting when I got to AA [when I had no alcohol to keep me numb] anymore. I guess because I have just gotten wind of this yesterday at Thansgiving dinner, when I saw my Mom...I felt like a 10 year old again...insecure, stupid, worthless...
She corrected my pronunciation of a 4 syllable medical term because I have called it "doo-wad-ENUM" and not "doo-O-DEE-num" my whole life...since I learned the term in the 6th grade. I don't know which way is right but it concerns me so much I have TRIED to not look it up in the dictionary - and that right there....my concern over it [hence why I have always been a perfectionist, knowing she'd be right there to correct me] tells me that I AM sick in the form of ADoA.
But then something kicks in when she said: "...and then I have back surgery..." KNOWING that my sister has newly disgnosed scoliosis and may really have to have "back surgery" someday, THIS did make me very angry. [She had an audience and she really shines with an audience....sucking up sympathy through manipulation] So I said: "What Mom? You have to have a cyst drained?" She said "Yes." So I stated clearly my opinion: "I wouldn't think of the term 'surgery' when having a cyst drained." She replied that because she will have stitches it's surgery.
:: Ding ding - Round two:: It's either keep my mouth shut and in silence co-sign her crap OR sit in silence and take a verbal beating or take a verbal beating. I have absolutely no answers on how to deal with her...and she's just the ADoA [compulsiveness, worships success & intellect and has an opinion on everything, creates crisis, lives in reactor mode, etc...etc... and since I am one too, IN a 12 step program I am genuinely lost when I get around her.]
As a teenager, our fights were famous. Yelling was normal [as the REAL issues were not discussed.] I was told things like "Deal with it" or "Get over it" or "Whatever" when I'd cry... "Put on a happy face" was *my* mantra. If you argue with her it's not just an argument....you are now her enemy for life and though she will be friendly to you, it's this way she can keep you close so she can *teach* you the error of your ways. [Take more pock shots at you, as you grapple to try to understand your own footing.]
My SO quit smoking and she said congratulations to him yesterday. I said, "I'm glad his mood swings have subsided. He's doing really well." Mom said: "::sarcastic snort:: I don't understand any of that. I had no problem quitting. I just decided one day to put them down and did."
She has a comment for everything and WILL correct you on your way of thinking. If your opinion is different from hers she will get angry and hypervigilant in trying to correct you. Even if you pretend to *give in* for the sake of peace she'll quiz you unti she is satisfied you do, indeed, now have learned the great lesson she has taught you. [I learned how to lie REALLY well as a teenager, as a result of this training.]
Please....does anyone have any hints on how to deal with people like this? AA, damned....I need a crash course in AlAnon or something now.
Thanks a lot,
Digits
Thank you for responding. That's very comforting to know I am not alone. Even in AA [my alcoholism- I should say], although it *did* feel like I was *coming home* to people who understood me and could see that they were so much like me...some things did keep me insecure even in AA...
- Like not being able to share [extreme fear...paralyzing. I considered medication.]
- Intense fear of not being validated ["You're really not one of us.]
- Feeling guilt over establishing my boundaries. [I couldn't do it.]
- So scared and worried my sponsor wouldn't like me if she knew the *real* truth about me.
The qualities here and in the book I am reading...I can see branching out ESPECIALLY starting when I got to AA [when I had no alcohol to keep me numb] anymore. I guess because I have just gotten wind of this yesterday at Thansgiving dinner, when I saw my Mom...I felt like a 10 year old again...insecure, stupid, worthless...
She corrected my pronunciation of a 4 syllable medical term because I have called it "doo-wad-ENUM" and not "doo-O-DEE-num" my whole life...since I learned the term in the 6th grade. I don't know which way is right but it concerns me so much I have TRIED to not look it up in the dictionary - and that right there....my concern over it [hence why I have always been a perfectionist, knowing she'd be right there to correct me] tells me that I AM sick in the form of ADoA.
But then something kicks in when she said: "...and then I have back surgery..." KNOWING that my sister has newly disgnosed scoliosis and may really have to have "back surgery" someday, THIS did make me very angry. [She had an audience and she really shines with an audience....sucking up sympathy through manipulation] So I said: "What Mom? You have to have a cyst drained?" She said "Yes." So I stated clearly my opinion: "I wouldn't think of the term 'surgery' when having a cyst drained." She replied that because she will have stitches it's surgery.
:: Ding ding - Round two:: It's either keep my mouth shut and in silence co-sign her crap OR sit in silence and take a verbal beating or take a verbal beating. I have absolutely no answers on how to deal with her...and she's just the ADoA [compulsiveness, worships success & intellect and has an opinion on everything, creates crisis, lives in reactor mode, etc...etc... and since I am one too, IN a 12 step program I am genuinely lost when I get around her.]
As a teenager, our fights were famous. Yelling was normal [as the REAL issues were not discussed.] I was told things like "Deal with it" or "Get over it" or "Whatever" when I'd cry... "Put on a happy face" was *my* mantra. If you argue with her it's not just an argument....you are now her enemy for life and though she will be friendly to you, it's this way she can keep you close so she can *teach* you the error of your ways. [Take more pock shots at you, as you grapple to try to understand your own footing.]
My SO quit smoking and she said congratulations to him yesterday. I said, "I'm glad his mood swings have subsided. He's doing really well." Mom said: "::sarcastic snort:: I don't understand any of that. I had no problem quitting. I just decided one day to put them down and did."
She has a comment for everything and WILL correct you on your way of thinking. If your opinion is different from hers she will get angry and hypervigilant in trying to correct you. Even if you pretend to *give in* for the sake of peace she'll quiz you unti she is satisfied you do, indeed, now have learned the great lesson she has taught you. [I learned how to lie REALLY well as a teenager, as a result of this training.]
Please....does anyone have any hints on how to deal with people like this? AA, damned....I need a crash course in AlAnon or something now.
Thanks a lot,
Digits
Supply Manager
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cleaverville
Posts: 2,898
Ahh the holidays..aren't they great?? All that family togetherness.
So you say your mom is in reactor mode? It sounds like you are too. I must say that is one of the first things I had to give up...reacting.
Just because you don't respond does not mean you agree...or cosign her BS. She is the way she is. You cannot change her and the sooner you can see that the happier you will be.
There is a quote in the BB about acceptance. I paraphrase, but when you are bothered it is because a person, place or thing is not as you think it should be. When you accept that person, place or thing as it is today, that is when you find peace again. You cannot change her or anyone else. The only one you can change is you and your own attitudes.
Ya know I have no problems today with either of my parents but I am still 10 years old again when I am around them. I think that is totally normal.
Take it easy and Keep it Simple!
Hugs,
JT
So you say your mom is in reactor mode? It sounds like you are too. I must say that is one of the first things I had to give up...reacting.
Just because you don't respond does not mean you agree...or cosign her BS. She is the way she is. You cannot change her and the sooner you can see that the happier you will be.
There is a quote in the BB about acceptance. I paraphrase, but when you are bothered it is because a person, place or thing is not as you think it should be. When you accept that person, place or thing as it is today, that is when you find peace again. You cannot change her or anyone else. The only one you can change is you and your own attitudes.
Ya know I have no problems today with either of my parents but I am still 10 years old again when I am around them. I think that is totally normal.
Take it easy and Keep it Simple!
Hugs,
JT
Member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hanging from the edge of my pink cloud
Posts: 15
Dang it!!! I hate the "not reacting back" thing. (not really, but old habits die hard) JT what you said is so true. But if I don't want to play that game anymore, I need to not play the game anymore. So, I have to NOT take each thing they say personally, (but it is always all about me, right? tehe) and allow it to just "be".
I was lecturing my A (just 'cause I'm tryin', don't mean I always do it right!) about how allowing his sis her own feelings doesn't mean he agrees and doesn't mean he needs to defend himself or get mad as they are just "her" feelings and that is OK and then a little light went on that maybe I should be listening to what I was saying and try to work that out for MY life. TADA Well, not quite, but it does help when I feel that feeling to shed a different light on it. I also remember a counsellor telling me to come up with difusing phrases to keep things on track when involved in a disagreement and they do help. Things like "that's nice that you were able to do that" Period, end of sentence...acknowledges their need to be heard without opening a can of worms...then roll your eyes AFTER you turn around. Good luck this holiday weekend.
I was lecturing my A (just 'cause I'm tryin', don't mean I always do it right!) about how allowing his sis her own feelings doesn't mean he agrees and doesn't mean he needs to defend himself or get mad as they are just "her" feelings and that is OK and then a little light went on that maybe I should be listening to what I was saying and try to work that out for MY life. TADA Well, not quite, but it does help when I feel that feeling to shed a different light on it. I also remember a counsellor telling me to come up with difusing phrases to keep things on track when involved in a disagreement and they do help. Things like "that's nice that you were able to do that" Period, end of sentence...acknowledges their need to be heard without opening a can of worms...then roll your eyes AFTER you turn around. Good luck this holiday weekend.
Digitally Remastered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Samsara
Posts: 102
Originally posted by Just Tired
Just because you don't respond does not mean you agree...or cosign her BS. She is the way she is. You cannot change her and the sooner you can see that the happier you will be.
Just because you don't respond does not mean you agree...or cosign her BS. She is the way she is. You cannot change her and the sooner you can see that the happier you will be.
Of course that now comes as a big *duh* but...what can I say. When she talks I feed it. I know that Al-Anon is probably going to be a lot more difficult than AA, for me because I am not *really* the ADoaA but, like I told my sponsor, more like the SCoaA [small child of an alcoholic] as I am starting to now progressively emotionally/mentally age.
When I put the alcohol down I wasn't 13 like some AAers say you are when you started drinking...I was 5 due to an incident that stunted me in all areas that could be affected. In short, it never occured to me to NOT respond to *mommy.* [I'm 5, mommy talks and I respond.]
I still have a very self-centered view of myself in the domain where the family is concerned...like not just having my needs met but my wants met too. [Typical, like a child.] This wouldn't be such a bad thing, as dysfunctional as *we* are but now that I'm sober I see it as unhealthy and because maybe now I am emotionally 6 around the parents [when i said 10 maybe i was giving too much credit to myself, heh!] I have a hard time making a connection between the two. [6 yr old mentality of *me me me* and *my needs* and *my wants* versus *being an adult in recovery.*]
Isn't THIS funny....I REALLY did think that AA would solve my reactionary stance when it came to my mom/grandmother. [UNTIL I understood really the branches of alcoholism I guess it made sense; ie, when I discovered another aspect of my sickness -ADoA.]
Ya know JT....I think you might get a kick out of this: When I first read your post I reacted just like I would have reacted to my mother. I didn't like it at all! I wanted to get on here and say something like "Abuse is unacceptable!" But alas...Even my sponsor has said things that I didn't like at first. Invariably, if I know it to be true I get to accepting it....eventually.
I really just wish I didn't feel she was stealing pieces of me when she berates me. I do not know how to deal with that. I am not kidding when I say I have no clue. Good hint though Closer: "That's nice that you were able to do that."
Thanks.
Digits
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