MrsDalloway

Hi! I am new here and so glad I found you all!!

I have been sober for 2 years. My BF has been sober for almost a year. Pre-my sobriety, I cheated and lied to him. I got sober, got help and have been on the straight and narrow ever since. I found out, pre his sobriety, that he had been cheating on me with the mother of his daughter for a long time.

I gave him no ultimatum, I just left. We were separated for 4 months. He went to rehab and has been sober since then (September 2010). We have both been in therapy, separately and together. I went into therapy knowing that it probably wouldn't work out, but I didn't want to have any regrets.

One of my boundaries was that he had to let me know when/if he was contacting his daughter's mother or if he saw them. I found out that three weeks ago (sober 9 months, couples therapy 6 months), through facebook, that the three of them went to the zoo together. There was a pic of the three of them. I know she has a boyfriend and that nothing happened with my BF physically, but he was supposed to tell me if she even called, let alone taking them to the zoo.

I was so disappointed. I thought we were working through all the lying? Am I being unrealistic about my expectations of him with only 10 months of sobriety? Unrealistic in general in regards to his character?

2 weeks later I found some emails (all innocent about their daughter) that he didn't tell me about. Am I asking too much that he keep me informed? Or I should just butt the hell out of it and if he is cheating, it will come out eventually.

Am I just being naive? Does the lying EVER change? I believe in his want/desire to change, but it is like he is incapable of doing it all the way, at this point. He still feels like he is protecting his ass somehow.

I am despondent. I feel like a crazy person. Any advice?

wicked

Mrs. Dalloway,

I wonder if you expect your boyfriend to never see his child again?
Or at least while he is in a relationship with you?

OH wait, I see, you want to know. I get it now. Yes, I would want to know about any contact they had if he had cheated on me with her.

He has never mentioned in therapy about wanting to see his daughter?
Maybe visitation could be worked out between them. Since my ex(alcoholic) is the father of my children, I wanted to be there or my mother in law be there to care for them if he was drunk. It certainly wasnt about being with him.

The fact that he lies about seeing his daughter with her mother would be a big problem for me. HUGE!

I am in recovery too, (alcoholic) and if he is sober but not actively recovering he is still in an alcoholic mindset, the drama, the lies, separate lives.

I hope you are going to AlAnon, so you can concentrate on what you want from this relationship.

One of my boundaries was that he had to let me know when/if he was contacting his daughter's mother or if he saw them.

What are the consequences to not respecting your boundary?

Beth

GettingBy

Hi and welcome!!!

Here's a question - what's your boundary and what do YOU want if the boundary is crossed? You said you wanted him to let you know if/when he was contacting her or saw them - he must have agreed, right? Well, now you've found out that he will contact them/see them and not tell you. He's going to do what he's going to do. No amount of rules will stop that. So, now what do you want? Can you live with him meeting up with her and him not possibly not telling you? She is his daughter's mother - so she's not going away, ever. You have to figure out what YOU want and what you can live with. Trying to control him is not the answer, ever.

Give it some time. Think about it - think about why it is that the whole situation bugs you and then see what you can do to protect/honor you.

Are you working an AA recovery program? If so, maybe chatting about this with your sponsor would help!

Take what you like!
Shannon

MrsDalloway

The consequence was that we would cease seeing each other. That obviously has not happened. Uggh.

He hasn't mentioned wanting to see his daughter all that much. In fact, I think he has no idea what to do with her. He pays over and above his child support, though, so he isn't a deadbeat in that way. I am trying to detach from his relationship with her.

I understand that he will be seeing the mother because of the daughter. I used to try to encourage the relationship, but he clearly showed me that isn't what he wanted and he is unsure of how he wants that relationship to be. I am trying to let him own it.

I just feel like we are moving backwards, towards where we used to be, with the separate lives. We are also long distance until I finish graduate school in December, which doesn't help any of this at all.

He is in therapy, but not working a specific 12 step program. I haven't done al anon yet, but I am def not opposed. Something needs to change. My life feels so out of my control.

Thank you for responding to me. It is nice to know that I am not alone.

ETA: I feel like I will be in this relationship forever, no matter what he does. I don't feel strong enough to leave. I don't want to leave. I feel like we have gone forward so much, but I think it may not ever be enough.

What do I want if the boundary is broken again? Ideally, I would leave and not look back. My past indicates that that is a near impossibility. I know I can't control him. I KNOW THAT. But I keep trying in some way. Uggghhhh.

m1k3

I think one of the hardest things to understand about boundaries is that they are not for the other person. They are for us. So was this really a boundary, if he does this than I will do that, or an attempt to control him, if you do this I will then I'm going to ......

Control never works, ever.

So, IMO, be easy on yourself, think about what you want out of this and then decide what is best for you.

Your friend,

GettingBy

Nothing is impossible. No situation is hopeless. You my dear have so much control over your own happiness - it's within you. Al-anon is a great place to start to work on you. To get your strength back and see what you really want for YOU.

You don't have to make a decision about him and your relationship today, or even tomorrow. Just keep plugging and chugging... and you WILL get better, I promise!!


So... what do you want today? A fancy coffee? A pedicure? Give yourself a break and treat yourself to something special. You deserve it!

wicked

Not alone here. There are many here who really get it! Wow, I still have to work it out all the time.

When my life feels out of control, it is usually because I am trying to control something or someone else besides me.

Sigh......Like now, my daughter has things she should be doing for school, is she doing it? Will she do it? Can I do it online? Should I do it online? Dammit.
This is her education and she has choices to make. Not me.

Beth

marie1960

Wanting him to tell you everytime the ex calls or he calls her is quite an unnecesary expectation. Don't mean to sound cruel, but perhaps some matters regarding the child simply are not your business. Part of co-parenting is communication, and I hope for the welfare of the child they remain amicable. Needing to know when she calls, sounds rather controlling to me. (again, i do not mean to sound cruel)

What I don't understand is his reason to lie. That casts a shadow of doubt over the situation. That would upset and disappoint me also.

Twelve years ago I was engaged to be married. We were to have a New Year's Eve destination wedding. He had two young children, that would not be attending. I encouraged him to go to his homestate for Christmas, spend some quality time with his kids, and family before the wedding. Knowing it was so important for the kids to be with their dad at Christmas. Well...... guess what.......????????????

The kids mom magically reappears, tells him she wants her family unit back, and he must have too, because he stayed. The End.

I know that is not an encouraging story, but it is real life. It truly goes to show you that you just never know what is really going on in someone else's head. I truly felt like I was run over by a bus.

Congratulations on your sobriety, wish you all the best in sorting out this matter. You are not crazy at all, just human.

24Years

Is he having second thoughts about wanting time with his daughter? Would the daughter be comfortable with her dad (alone) if she isn't used to seeing him? These are questions that cross my mind while reading your posts.

The sneakiness on his part would bother me, huge.

Tuffgirl

Sounds to be like a big trust issue, versus a control issue (of course, there is always a little bit of that in the mix regardless).

I have a new husband and the father of my girls and his girlfriend in my life...I thought given we are all grown ups this would be easy. I was so wrong about that, and there was not cheating going on anywhere. My new husband was jealous of my relationship with the girls Dad. His girlfriend was jealous of his relationship with me. And so on...I began to just accept this was human nature and there wasn't much I could do about it, since it really wasn't my problem to begin with.

IMHO, I think learning to let this one go - including the emotions attached to it based on the previous cheating - and let him be a grown up who can make his own decisions is the best course of action. First of all, having to check in with you about his whereabouts regarding this family...and believe me they may be divorced but they are still a family in the loosest sense of the word when their are kids in the picture...is a bit condescending to my ears. And I may be projecting here but that is how I felt when my RAH tries to set boundaries like that. I am not a child; I can manage my relationship with the father of my daughters to protect their best interests (which is the utmost priority here). My ex's girlfriend tried to do the same thing with him. It undermines our (me and the Ex) ability to co-parent successfully.

So that's my story - I don't think it was as much about sobriety or addiction as it is about the human nature to be jealous and territorial of one's loved one. My personal thought here: If you stay in the picture, make her an ally and you'll not feel threatened.

Freedom1990

How important is your sobriety to you?

I can guarantee with 100% accuracy, based on my own experience, that if you don't keep your eyes on you and start with Alanon, your sobriety will be lost somewhere along the way.

I was stubborn and didn't listen to those who warned me against a relationship early in my sobriety.

So I relation-hopped, ended up falling badly for another guy in recovery and the end result was I drank again after four years clean/sober.

I was so enmeshed that I didn't know where I ended and he began.

It was not worth it. I ended up binge-drinking over a two month period before I finally gt sick and tired of being sick and tired again.

21 years later he's married to an active alcoholic and they are both busy pickling themselves with drugs/alcohol.

Today I protect my recovery like the precious seed that it is in my hand.

MrsDalloway

Freedom, my sobriety is VERY important to me. I am in therapy. I am actively working on it ALL THE TIME. As I'm sure you know, it preoccupies so much of my thoughts. We were dating while both of us got sober, so I am not sure what the rules are for breaking up a relationship already in progress.

Tuffgirl, I totally get the stepfamily dynamic. And prior to me finding out BF cheated on me with his daughter's mother for 2 1/2 years, I was ALL FOR SHARED PARENTING. I even encouraged him to go on a "family" vacation with his daugher and her mother and her mother's family because I totally got it. And then I come to find out he is sleeping with her the whole time. So that shiz got nixxed. Yes of course they will have to be together at some point, but in no way shape or form is it appropriate for him to be alone with her. It also gives his daughter the wrong message about her parents relationship. He agreed to those terms. I am all for a relationship with his daughter and in no way hinder that. The rules of our relationship are: if either of our exes contacts us, we tell the other person, which I follow. He hasn't. Bottom line. In my eyes, it is about respect for me, because him being with this person caused so much pain in our relationship. I was NEVER territorial or jealous before I found out about the cheating, I had no reason to be. Like I said, I was naive enough to think he was just going on vacation "for his daughter" and that's how committed I was to him "raising" his daughter. There are many, many, many ways to parent that don't involve them talking often on the phone or him going to the zoo with them.

Rayn, I am trying to detach from it all. The super sleuth sh*t is driving me batty. If he cheats on me, I will find out somehow, bottom line. (Mrs. Dalloway is my favorite literary character

24years, he is VERY unsure about his relationship with his daughter. He works out of state and never gets to see her or his son from a different mother. His daughter was a surprise and came at a point in his life where he was really drinking and partying. Now sober, he is trying to renegotiate what a relationship looks like.

Ogilve

I always wanted Clarissa to marry Mr. Walsh and not Mr. D; oh well.

Co-parenting is really tough. I would probably be plagued by degrees of insecurity if my husband/partner/whoever had cheated on me with the mother of his children, regardless of any other issues (addiction).

I'm new to the board and to many of the ideas here, but from my own experience, I believe that boundaries cannot be a means to control others. My boundaries are in place in order to keep me and my children safe. Since they are critical in that way, there aren't second chances; in my situation, if my partner gets drunk and gets in my face, yelling at me (which he's never done and would never do sober, yet he can't see that alcohol is a problem... makes my head spin...), I'm taking a break and leaving for the night with our children. Each and every time. I can't and don't wish to control him; simply to keep the rest of us sane and safe.

Was there an agreed-on action on your part for if the boundary was crossed? Have you told him how insecure his actions make you?

LifeRecovery

MrsDalloway-

I married and lived with a person with problem drinking for just over five years. I was working my own recovery from an eating disorder that whole time (prior to the marriage also). I was aware of his problem with alcohol the whole marriage, but in my true codependent format I figured if I took it on as my problem it would get addressed and fixed. I am pretty sure my recovery from the eating disorder was over way before I thought it was, but I could not figure out what was "wrong" with our relationshp...so I just figured it was me. Duh!

I was just after our fifth anniversary that I was approached by a private investigator that my husband was having an affair with a friend of mine (who I also believe may struggle with alcohol). It was devestating.

On the other hand it was the best thing that ever happened to me. It got me out of denial about what was mine and what was his. It happened on a Sunday, by Monday I was at my first Al-Anon meeting. I had been resistant to going prior to that...because I thought the problems were all mine. His use of substances had not occurred to me as impacting our relationship.

I know Al-Anon is about living with an alcoholic/problem drinker, but the info applies to all aspects of my life. I had a good support system in place before, but Al-Anon helped me to figure out boundaries, helped me to sort through what was mine and what was not etc, helped me to figure out what was mine in terms of control (the affair and his alcohol use were not mine I realize now and never were). In addition the reading from Al-Anon helped me come to terms that my relationship with a loved one living with the disease of alcoholism, and that unfortunately those relationship are often flawed in fairly predictable fashions, which can include affairs.

This did not make it easier for me, and I still struggle with coming to terms with those items, the ending of our relationship, a new level of responsibility to love myself, have fun etc. However because of Al-Anon I did not feel alone, about either the alcohol use or the affair and I learned tools to help me address both.

I also have some great books and support on affairs specifically if you are interested please individually message me. As strange as it sounds Al-Anon has been the biggest support for both topics though that at least in my case were intertwined (I think).

Wow this is long. One last quick note. It is always a safe and good plan to take care of yourself. Thanks for sticking with me and let me know if I can be of assistance in any way.

skippernlilg

I know I'm uncomfortable with the compartmentalizing that alcoholics do. They tuck away a corner of their lives as a 'safe place' (to them) just in case they need to protect their alcoholism. Sometimes, that safe place can make other people around them untrusting of them.

If you're sitting back and you're uncomfortable with this situation, you may need to sit back a lot further to see the whole picture before making any decisions. That's what I did.

Also, in keeping with the them of boundaries. Remember, you get to say what yours are. You felt in danger when you moved them before and accepted unacceptable behavior; however, you have the power to say what is and is not your boundary at any given time. If you can't be around this, don't be around it. We can't use that as a weapon, though.

gowest

I believe you feel crazy because he LIED and you know it.

I do believe that wanting to know about their contact is controlling.
I understand why you asked, you didn't want to be lied to. You didn't want to be suspicious.

But the simple reality is that whether or not your boundary was a controlling one, he did lie.

Can you live with lying?
Now?
Later?
Only for 1 year?
Only for 5 years?

I don't lie any more about anything. It is much harder than it sounds but it is doable. If I don't want to disclose information that is what I say.

I wouldn't stay with someone who I knew was lying to me.
I did that with a "R"AB
Never again.
It made me despondent. It made me feel like a crazy person.

I learned through Alanon that I could never ever stop anyone else from lying.
I learned through Alanon that I could leave at the first lie.

Good luck