Between a Rock and a Hard Place
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
Posts: 59
Between a Rock and a Hard Place
As my wife climbs the road to recovery, there are pitfalls, set-backs, pick-ups and surges forward at time, I keep a safe distance, getting closer to her when it is progressing and pull-back when it goes awry. (Me and my Girls moved out in February during a crazy period of constant drinking and failed rehab, we have between our rental house and the family house dependent on the level and period of sobriety)
This is for my own emotional protection (and that of the children) and I was always told by every professional and programme that an alcoholic must experience the consequences of their addiction. To me it was enabling if she didn’t understand that she could lose her family if she did not stop.
My wife is saying that if I want to support her I must be there as a loving husband, move back in properly, not just odd times. If I don't want to, she says move on, but get off the fence.
Part of me wants to move back in, but, part of me is sh*t scared. When there is recovery is it wrong if I pull away at each set back major set-back. She says she would not expect us to stay if she starts drinking again.
One of her friends, a recovering alcoholic (Non-AA) agrees with my wife’s position, but takes it one step further, (that one step no codie ever wants to hear): That my wife needs that love and support from me to succeed. She even asks “Do you Love her?” but doesn’t quite go as far as saying, “If you love her enough you’d move back in”. I tell her it contradicts everything I was ever told. I tell her if love could cure addiction there would be no addicts.
I should add that during this hour my wife candidly shared how much she needs to get sober working her new program (LifeRing meetings) because if she goes back to drinking in the manner she did previously she will probably end up dead. She talked about imagining going to the tool shed and finding “something” as she could not stand the depression. She told me how she had been disappointed to be found by me in the morning still alive after the overdose in March.
This left me stunned and those who have read my threads and my earlier Reefbreakbda posts will know we lived and breathed suicide attempts before in this family,
I ask her to clarify what she is asking. She says she understands she needs to get sober for herself and it is not dependent on me, but just that it will be easier with us.
So you see where I am, come full circle, doubting everything. Sitting on the fence and getting pressure to get down on one side or the other.
Thoughts anyone?
This is for my own emotional protection (and that of the children) and I was always told by every professional and programme that an alcoholic must experience the consequences of their addiction. To me it was enabling if she didn’t understand that she could lose her family if she did not stop.
My wife is saying that if I want to support her I must be there as a loving husband, move back in properly, not just odd times. If I don't want to, she says move on, but get off the fence.
Part of me wants to move back in, but, part of me is sh*t scared. When there is recovery is it wrong if I pull away at each set back major set-back. She says she would not expect us to stay if she starts drinking again.
One of her friends, a recovering alcoholic (Non-AA) agrees with my wife’s position, but takes it one step further, (that one step no codie ever wants to hear): That my wife needs that love and support from me to succeed. She even asks “Do you Love her?” but doesn’t quite go as far as saying, “If you love her enough you’d move back in”. I tell her it contradicts everything I was ever told. I tell her if love could cure addiction there would be no addicts.
I should add that during this hour my wife candidly shared how much she needs to get sober working her new program (LifeRing meetings) because if she goes back to drinking in the manner she did previously she will probably end up dead. She talked about imagining going to the tool shed and finding “something” as she could not stand the depression. She told me how she had been disappointed to be found by me in the morning still alive after the overdose in March.
This left me stunned and those who have read my threads and my earlier Reefbreakbda posts will know we lived and breathed suicide attempts before in this family,
I ask her to clarify what she is asking. She says she understands she needs to get sober for herself and it is not dependent on me, but just that it will be easier with us.
So you see where I am, come full circle, doubting everything. Sitting on the fence and getting pressure to get down on one side or the other.
Thoughts anyone?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 588
I am very sorry you are having this tough, tough time. I wish you well.
I have no experience with recovery so I cannot share or offer any thoughts that may be useful to you. I'm sure someone will be along soon that can be helpful.
I have no experience with recovery so I cannot share or offer any thoughts that may be useful to you. I'm sure someone will be along soon that can be helpful.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 2,391
Just like she needs her recovery, you need yours. Trust your instincts. If you're not ready to move back in, don't do it.
She sounds like she's trying to manipulate you.
Basically, it sounds like the exact things I would say to people to get them to do what I wanted them to.
Pay attention to what she says and not what she does.
I've been clean and sober over 5 years and am married to a normie. We work on own programs.
She sounds like she's trying to manipulate you.
Basically, it sounds like the exact things I would say to people to get them to do what I wanted them to.
Pay attention to what she says and not what she does.
I've been clean and sober over 5 years and am married to a normie. We work on own programs.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 43
So sorry for your difficult situation.
My experience was that every time my AH would plead to move back home after insisting that it was the only way he could stay sober, he would just start the cycle all over again as soon as we were all living under the same roof. At first he would start out appearing sober but sometimes within hours he would gradually begin acting odd once more and eventually it would just get worse and worse. All while making sure there was no real evidence that his drinking had resumed so he could prolong his stay.
When were weren’t living together and when he seemed to be making an effort, we would spend more time together, go out to eat with the kids or go to a movie - and he would spend more time at the house. All done to reinforce his efforts and to subtly give him encouragement. However, if he started behaving strangely, it was easy to go our separate ways without the ultimatums and arguments that would always result every time I had to ask him move back out once more. Another dramatic upheaval neither the kids or I needed anymore of, we had been through enough. Also, considering what is in the best interest of our children was very important to me as well - considering if or when he moved back in, would he add to their stability and happiness, or watch it crumble once more?
I always told my AH that all he had to do was to stop drinking for an extended period of time (approx 4 to 6 months) and moving back home would be serious consideration. The trick always was determining if he had really stopped drinking - or just saying he had like so many times before, while trying to hide it.
My experience was that every time my AH would plead to move back home after insisting that it was the only way he could stay sober, he would just start the cycle all over again as soon as we were all living under the same roof. At first he would start out appearing sober but sometimes within hours he would gradually begin acting odd once more and eventually it would just get worse and worse. All while making sure there was no real evidence that his drinking had resumed so he could prolong his stay.
When were weren’t living together and when he seemed to be making an effort, we would spend more time together, go out to eat with the kids or go to a movie - and he would spend more time at the house. All done to reinforce his efforts and to subtly give him encouragement. However, if he started behaving strangely, it was easy to go our separate ways without the ultimatums and arguments that would always result every time I had to ask him move back out once more. Another dramatic upheaval neither the kids or I needed anymore of, we had been through enough. Also, considering what is in the best interest of our children was very important to me as well - considering if or when he moved back in, would he add to their stability and happiness, or watch it crumble once more?
I always told my AH that all he had to do was to stop drinking for an extended period of time (approx 4 to 6 months) and moving back home would be serious consideration. The trick always was determining if he had really stopped drinking - or just saying he had like so many times before, while trying to hide it.
A jug fills drop by drop
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 6,784
Why are her needs more important than yours?
Of course her life will get easier- what about yours? will YOUR life get easier?
Even if the rest of the world agreed with your wife that wouldn't make it OK for you.
Trust your gut, protect yourself and the girls. If you go back, what are you teaching them? how would you feel if one of them was all grown up, had a partner that behaved like your wife. And after much effort she finally got out. How would you feel if she went back to that home??
Your kids are going to follow your example...
Of course her life will get easier- what about yours? will YOUR life get easier?
Even if the rest of the world agreed with your wife that wouldn't make it OK for you.
Trust your gut, protect yourself and the girls. If you go back, what are you teaching them? how would you feel if one of them was all grown up, had a partner that behaved like your wife. And after much effort she finally got out. How would you feel if she went back to that home??
Your kids are going to follow your example...
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hi ValJester,
I have to agree with TC....what do YOU want to do? In my humble opinion, you are not "sitting on a fence", you are just doing what you need to do to protect yourself and your children while she struggles with early addiction.
I am not in your shoes, but if I were, I would make sure that she had at least 1 year of good, solid recovery before considering moving back in with her.
Please take good care of yourself. Hugs and prayers for you, your children, and your wife.
HG
I have to agree with TC....what do YOU want to do? In my humble opinion, you are not "sitting on a fence", you are just doing what you need to do to protect yourself and your children while she struggles with early addiction.
I am not in your shoes, but if I were, I would make sure that she had at least 1 year of good, solid recovery before considering moving back in with her.
Please take good care of yourself. Hugs and prayers for you, your children, and your wife.
HG
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Val, get down off the fence when you choose to get down. Get down on the side of the fence that you choose to get down on based on what's right for you and your girls.
It doesn't have to be decided today. Take it easy on your self and trust yourself and your inner wisdom. You will make the right decision when you are ready to make it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. So, if waiting is right for you at this time then wait because you choose to wait and you are aware that now is not the time to make this decision.
((((hugs))))
Your friend,
It doesn't have to be decided today. Take it easy on your self and trust yourself and your inner wisdom. You will make the right decision when you are ready to make it. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. So, if waiting is right for you at this time then wait because you choose to wait and you are aware that now is not the time to make this decision.
((((hugs))))
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
I can't offer you any real advice, but I can relate to some of the guilt you seem to be feeling, or made to feel by others.
In my case, it comes from my daughter (18). Several times, after drinking incidents with AW, Daughter has asked me if I still love AW. If I say yes, she says "Really?", as though she doubts me. I'm pretty sure that AW has complained to her that I don't love her any more, leading daughter to think that I'm the reason AW drinks.
A few weeks ago, Daughter got angry and had a confrontation with AW about drinking, threatening to move out if she didn't stop. AW angrily agreed to stop, but it only lasted a week. Now Daughter is doubting her own resolve, telling me that she thinks we need to be "less controlling", and maybe AW will stop on her own. We backed off and stopped badgering AW, but the drinking is still getting worse.
The bottom line is that I've begun the process of detaching, but daughter has not. She still thinks we can do something to make AW stop, even though she's not willing to stop.
I hope you can resolve your situation so that you and your children can be healthy. In my opinion, that's your most important consideration.
In my case, it comes from my daughter (18). Several times, after drinking incidents with AW, Daughter has asked me if I still love AW. If I say yes, she says "Really?", as though she doubts me. I'm pretty sure that AW has complained to her that I don't love her any more, leading daughter to think that I'm the reason AW drinks.
A few weeks ago, Daughter got angry and had a confrontation with AW about drinking, threatening to move out if she didn't stop. AW angrily agreed to stop, but it only lasted a week. Now Daughter is doubting her own resolve, telling me that she thinks we need to be "less controlling", and maybe AW will stop on her own. We backed off and stopped badgering AW, but the drinking is still getting worse.
The bottom line is that I've begun the process of detaching, but daughter has not. She still thinks we can do something to make AW stop, even though she's not willing to stop.
I hope you can resolve your situation so that you and your children can be healthy. In my opinion, that's your most important consideration.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,294
I cannot even begin to describe how my BS-O-manipulate-O-blamer-O-meter is whoop-dooping and ring-dinging and flashing and fluttering furiously in the wind, at reading what your wife is pulling.
She's back to pulling the pillows around her (using an accomplice wolf dressed in sheepskin, no less), and thinking the world revolves around her and her recovery.
Today, I don't engage in twisted alcoholic realities. This is stinkin' thinkin'.
The responsibility for her to get and stay sober, and to get and stay happy is ON HER.
That she is trying to put it ON YOU and push you into a corner where you are not comfortable is NOT a reflection of true recovery effort, in my mind...
True recovery is about doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to learn to live life on life's terms without substances, recognizing and making amends, and living cleanly from every sense. It isn't about pulling the pillows around you and expecting the world to revolve around your efforts, despite how difficult they may prove to be. Recovery is about growing up and taking responsibility, about right-sizing oneself in the world.
And codie recovery is about learning that WE MATTER, that we deserve an equal place - what WE want, how WE live, how something will affect OUR quality of life. About not taking on problems, guilt, or other things that don't rightly belong to us. About having compassion, but also clarity and boundaries. About respecting ourselves, as much as we respect others.
CLMI
She's back to pulling the pillows around her (using an accomplice wolf dressed in sheepskin, no less), and thinking the world revolves around her and her recovery.
Today, I don't engage in twisted alcoholic realities. This is stinkin' thinkin'.
The responsibility for her to get and stay sober, and to get and stay happy is ON HER.
That she is trying to put it ON YOU and push you into a corner where you are not comfortable is NOT a reflection of true recovery effort, in my mind...
True recovery is about doing WHATEVER IT TAKES to learn to live life on life's terms without substances, recognizing and making amends, and living cleanly from every sense. It isn't about pulling the pillows around you and expecting the world to revolve around your efforts, despite how difficult they may prove to be. Recovery is about growing up and taking responsibility, about right-sizing oneself in the world.
And codie recovery is about learning that WE MATTER, that we deserve an equal place - what WE want, how WE live, how something will affect OUR quality of life. About not taking on problems, guilt, or other things that don't rightly belong to us. About having compassion, but also clarity and boundaries. About respecting ourselves, as much as we respect others.
CLMI
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
TeM, are you going to Al-anon and do you think your daughter would be receptive to al-teen or al-anon (not sure of the age cut off) ?
Perhaps if you are going you lend her some literature to read?
Just a couple of ideas.
Your friend,
Perhaps if you are going you lend her some literature to read?
Just a couple of ideas.
Your friend,
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Val, I moved out in January, and my RAH was 6 weeks sober at the time. I was just done with the chaos in my life...it has truly become unmanageable. When I moved out, it was with no expectations of what would happen in the future in regards to our marriage. I was far more interested in salvaging my own life.
He has never hinged the success of his recovery on me moving back in, but he has balked at the idea of having a "nontraditional" marriage where we don't live together. I was told I wasn't being a "wife" by not living with him, and he couldn't have a relationship unless the kids and I lived there. I still don't share that view, nor do I intend to move in with him again anytime soon. It's not because I don't love him, I do, very much. It's because my life is so much more manageable now. And right now, that is exactly what I need it to be.
If he thinks that is not good enough, or can't move on with his own life in any way, he is free to pursue a divorce and I will not fight him for it... I made that perfectly clear early last month. So when I read that you are "on the fence", I have to laugh a little because it sounds to me as if you made your intentions perfectly clear to your wife and you are not on the fence at all...you are observing her from your side of your own fence. That's perfectly ok.
I am looking for sustained change. And "sustained" takes time. I don't see us living together again for a long time. Probably not while there are kids still in the house. I don't really want to take that risk again. But I think if I change my mind, I won't be on the fence about it, I will be very enthusiastic about living with him as his wife again. It will just be the next right thing to do in my life.
So what's your next right thing to do...for you?
He has never hinged the success of his recovery on me moving back in, but he has balked at the idea of having a "nontraditional" marriage where we don't live together. I was told I wasn't being a "wife" by not living with him, and he couldn't have a relationship unless the kids and I lived there. I still don't share that view, nor do I intend to move in with him again anytime soon. It's not because I don't love him, I do, very much. It's because my life is so much more manageable now. And right now, that is exactly what I need it to be.
If he thinks that is not good enough, or can't move on with his own life in any way, he is free to pursue a divorce and I will not fight him for it... I made that perfectly clear early last month. So when I read that you are "on the fence", I have to laugh a little because it sounds to me as if you made your intentions perfectly clear to your wife and you are not on the fence at all...you are observing her from your side of your own fence. That's perfectly ok.
I am looking for sustained change. And "sustained" takes time. I don't see us living together again for a long time. Probably not while there are kids still in the house. I don't really want to take that risk again. But I think if I change my mind, I won't be on the fence about it, I will be very enthusiastic about living with him as his wife again. It will just be the next right thing to do in my life.
So what's your next right thing to do...for you?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 1,118
i had a similar situation. I moved out for a planned six-week absence because I couldn't stand the drinking. I was extremely explicit with AH that that was THE reason I was leaving. He was shocked when I wouldn't just turn around and come home at his bidding.
So, he started right away to go to counseling. He asked me to join at a certain point and during that counseling visit he talked about how difficult it was to stay sober on the weekend, and that it would be SO much easier with my support. So the counselor asked me if I'd be willing to go home on the weekends.
I complied, but you know what? It made no difference really. I know exactly what you are going through. You feel like you need for them to get the strength to stand ON THEIR OWN, so you move out of the picture, but then others (even counselors) tell you that in order to stand on their own they need you by their side.
The only way I could reconcile it in my head was to remind myself that I never left to "make him get sober." In fact, I really was at the point where I didn't want to be responsible for his sobriety. Seemed like even more pressure to think that he only got sober for me.
So, I didn't look at it as a pass or fail in terms of the outcome of my moving away. I looked at is simply as time I NEEDED for me to get my head on straight. That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less.
If you use that as your barometer the answers seem a little clearer, I think. So, I did come back on the weekends to show my support, but I also used the weeks inbetween to shore myself up and stay on the balance beam.
I have since come home. AH is still drinking, but I'm doing better (not perfect) at minding my own business and doing my thing. I admit, having a child really makes it more complex in one way, but easier in another, because you need to devote your focus on truly what's best for your child rather than your wife.
So, he started right away to go to counseling. He asked me to join at a certain point and during that counseling visit he talked about how difficult it was to stay sober on the weekend, and that it would be SO much easier with my support. So the counselor asked me if I'd be willing to go home on the weekends.
I complied, but you know what? It made no difference really. I know exactly what you are going through. You feel like you need for them to get the strength to stand ON THEIR OWN, so you move out of the picture, but then others (even counselors) tell you that in order to stand on their own they need you by their side.
The only way I could reconcile it in my head was to remind myself that I never left to "make him get sober." In fact, I really was at the point where I didn't want to be responsible for his sobriety. Seemed like even more pressure to think that he only got sober for me.
So, I didn't look at it as a pass or fail in terms of the outcome of my moving away. I looked at is simply as time I NEEDED for me to get my head on straight. That's it. Nothing more. Nothing less.
If you use that as your barometer the answers seem a little clearer, I think. So, I did come back on the weekends to show my support, but I also used the weeks inbetween to shore myself up and stay on the balance beam.
I have since come home. AH is still drinking, but I'm doing better (not perfect) at minding my own business and doing my thing. I admit, having a child really makes it more complex in one way, but easier in another, because you need to devote your focus on truly what's best for your child rather than your wife.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 115
Originally Posted by m1k3 
TeM, are you going to Al-anon and do you think your daughter would be receptive to al-teen or al-anon (not sure of the age cut off) ?
Perhaps if you are going you lend her some literature to read?
Just a couple of ideas.
Your friend,
Perhaps if you are going you lend her some literature to read?
Just a couple of ideas.
Your friend,
I wish you well. Keeping posting here. Lots and lots of compassion and support!
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
Originally Posted by hwsm
I have no experience with recovery and taking baby steps myself. Just reading the Al-Anon literature has helped me. The "if you loved me" attempt is futile? Wow, and all along I thought that was the ace in my pocket.
I wish you well. Keeping posting here. Lots and lots of compassion and support!
I wish you well. Keeping posting here. Lots and lots of compassion and support!
You didn't cause it.
You can't control it.
You can't cure it.
He will begin recovery only when he is ready.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 456
My mother and alcoholic father got divorced about 30 years ago.
My mother eventually remarried and created a semi-stable home environment for us when I was a teenager. It helped some, but my siblings and I have so many ACA issues. The craziness of our early home truly did cripple us as adults.
My father never quit drinking, but he did manage to create a life for himself. He worked, lived in a run down apartment, and hung out with other alcoholics for the remainder of his life.
He died last year at the age of 71.
When he was in the nursing home, he would occasionally talk about the various regrets he had. I was shocked when one afternoon he said "if your mother stayed with me I would have stopped drinking." Ha! I reminded him that she stayed with him for 15 years.
THIRTY years later and he was still blaming my mother!!!!! 71 years-old and he NEVER took full responsibility for his actions, his drinking, or his life. It was always someone else's fault. I think that's pretty much why he never recovered.
I'm sorry that you're going through this with your wife. Please take care of yourself and your girls!
Thank you for letting me share.
db
My mother eventually remarried and created a semi-stable home environment for us when I was a teenager. It helped some, but my siblings and I have so many ACA issues. The craziness of our early home truly did cripple us as adults.
My father never quit drinking, but he did manage to create a life for himself. He worked, lived in a run down apartment, and hung out with other alcoholics for the remainder of his life.
He died last year at the age of 71.
When he was in the nursing home, he would occasionally talk about the various regrets he had. I was shocked when one afternoon he said "if your mother stayed with me I would have stopped drinking." Ha! I reminded him that she stayed with him for 15 years.
THIRTY years later and he was still blaming my mother!!!!! 71 years-old and he NEVER took full responsibility for his actions, his drinking, or his life. It was always someone else's fault. I think that's pretty much why he never recovered.
I'm sorry that you're going through this with your wife. Please take care of yourself and your girls!
Thank you for letting me share.
db
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 255
Mike, I haven't gotten up the courage to go to Al-Anon yet. I know I need to.
I've given daughter some links to websites to read, but she's not much of a reader, and she's not receptive to Al-a-teen... she still won't admit that AW is an alcoholic, though she thinks the drinking is a problem. We're plugging along one day at a time, though.
Thanks.
I've given daughter some links to websites to read, but she's not much of a reader, and she's not receptive to Al-a-teen... she still won't admit that AW is an alcoholic, though she thinks the drinking is a problem. We're plugging along one day at a time, though.
Thanks.
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
TeM, you don't have to worry. The people there are very much like the people here. They understand way you are there because they have been there themselves. I tried four different meetings before I settled on one as my home group. I will probably go to the others when I fell a need. They were all good. The one just clicked with me.
Trust me, it was well worth it.
Your friend,
Trust me, it was well worth it.
Your friend,
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
