Does he have a drinking problem? If yes, no relationship; if no, proceed to #2
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Does he have a drinking problem? If yes, no relationship; if no, proceed to #2
I saw my relationship with my XAH in a new way and thought I'd share.
I used to get all mixed up with all his great qualities and his problems.
How do I weigh them out?
He is great MOST of the time and difficult occasionally, but that difficulty is so painful...
I want to be a good partner and love and accept and not judge...
but I have these feelings he is lying to me...
on and on in circles.
It felt like life was a big million piece puzzle and how in the world do I put it together??!?
Maybe it felt like a Jackson Pollock painting! How do you put all those splatters into sense?
...
But I've decided life is more like a dichotomous key.
Dichotomous keys are used by scientists, particularly botanists to figure out a plant. The simplify identification into a series of a or b questions.
"Is it blue or not blue?" "Does it have simple leaves or complex leaves?" - that kind of thing.
So for example,
1. If it is blue, proceed to #2. If it is not blue, proceed to #3. And so on.
So, if you were looking for a rare mustard, and you knew mustard flowers had four petals) you could ask,
1. If it has four petals, proceed to #2. If it has some other number, it is not a mustard.
If it had 5 petals you stop. It won't work to do any more figuring.
It doesn't matter if it is the same color as mustards you have seen.
It doesn't matter if it smells or tastes like a mustard.
It doesn't matter if it has the leaf shape of a mustard.
You have to stop.
So, my dichotomous key would say
1. Does he lie and hide things from you? If yes, no relationship. If no, proceed to #2.
And it doesn't matter that he has 8 zillion othere qualities that make him GREAT. I have to stop.
I could make the question
1. Does he secretly drink alcohol at night and/or on the way to or from work to deal with stress? If yes, no relationship. If no, proceed to #2.
1. Does he have problems with drinking and lying and goes ballistic or completely shuts down when you try to discuss it? If yes, no relationship. If no, proceed to #2.
You know, I would get caught up in the WHYs, as well.
He's depressed.
He didn't develop coping skills because his dad was abusive.
He's stressed.
Etc!
But those are further down on my dichotomous key.
I can't even GET to those because if I am being treated like crap (REGARDLESS of the reason), then the game is over.
Doesn't matter why.
Why can come later with reflection, but it doesn't influence the dichotomous key.
I guess it's another way to look at dealbreakers, but it makes sense to my brain!
Hope it helps someone!
p
I used to get all mixed up with all his great qualities and his problems.
How do I weigh them out?
He is great MOST of the time and difficult occasionally, but that difficulty is so painful...
I want to be a good partner and love and accept and not judge...
but I have these feelings he is lying to me...
on and on in circles.
It felt like life was a big million piece puzzle and how in the world do I put it together??!?
Maybe it felt like a Jackson Pollock painting! How do you put all those splatters into sense?
...
But I've decided life is more like a dichotomous key.
Dichotomous keys are used by scientists, particularly botanists to figure out a plant. The simplify identification into a series of a or b questions.
"Is it blue or not blue?" "Does it have simple leaves or complex leaves?" - that kind of thing.
So for example,
1. If it is blue, proceed to #2. If it is not blue, proceed to #3. And so on.
So, if you were looking for a rare mustard, and you knew mustard flowers had four petals) you could ask,
1. If it has four petals, proceed to #2. If it has some other number, it is not a mustard.
If it had 5 petals you stop. It won't work to do any more figuring.
It doesn't matter if it is the same color as mustards you have seen.
It doesn't matter if it smells or tastes like a mustard.
It doesn't matter if it has the leaf shape of a mustard.
You have to stop.
So, my dichotomous key would say
1. Does he lie and hide things from you? If yes, no relationship. If no, proceed to #2.
And it doesn't matter that he has 8 zillion othere qualities that make him GREAT. I have to stop.
I could make the question
1. Does he secretly drink alcohol at night and/or on the way to or from work to deal with stress? If yes, no relationship. If no, proceed to #2.
1. Does he have problems with drinking and lying and goes ballistic or completely shuts down when you try to discuss it? If yes, no relationship. If no, proceed to #2.
You know, I would get caught up in the WHYs, as well.
He's depressed.
He didn't develop coping skills because his dad was abusive.
He's stressed.
Etc!
But those are further down on my dichotomous key.
I can't even GET to those because if I am being treated like crap (REGARDLESS of the reason), then the game is over.
Doesn't matter why.
Why can come later with reflection, but it doesn't influence the dichotomous key.
I guess it's another way to look at dealbreakers, but it makes sense to my brain!
Hope it helps someone!
p
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I like it, too.
Makes the whole confusing thing a little less overwhelming.
Of course, most of us (when we are new), can't accept that it really IS that simple. We (and our alcoholics) are terminally UNIQUE. We're the exceptions. We're the world's first five-petaled mustards.
Makes the whole confusing thing a little less overwhelming.
Of course, most of us (when we are new), can't accept that it really IS that simple. We (and our alcoholics) are terminally UNIQUE. We're the exceptions. We're the world's first five-petaled mustards.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Now if you could turn this into a PDF so the rest of us can download and take on dates...I could eliminate them before the entree arrives!
However, I found my relationship with my A was seemingly "functional" for a very long time - a solid 18 months before the cracks started to appear in the facade. They are clever...
But at least now I know to look for certain give-aways...red flags that I missed the first time around that were simply too subtle to notice for a normie.
However, I found my relationship with my A was seemingly "functional" for a very long time - a solid 18 months before the cracks started to appear in the facade. They are clever...
But at least now I know to look for certain give-aways...red flags that I missed the first time around that were simply too subtle to notice for a normie.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Originally Posted by Tuffgirl 
Now if you could turn this into a PDF so the rest of us can download and take on dates...I could eliminate them before the entree arrives!
However, I found my relationship with my A was seemingly "functional" for a very long time - a solid 18 months before the cracks started to appear in the facade. They are clever...
But at least now I know to look for certain give-aways...red flags that I missed the first time around that were simply too subtle to notice for a normie.
However, I found my relationship with my A was seemingly "functional" for a very long time - a solid 18 months before the cracks started to appear in the facade. They are clever...
But at least now I know to look for certain give-aways...red flags that I missed the first time around that were simply too subtle to notice for a normie.
For me, we started the relationship with me saying (good boundaries) I wasn't interested in dating a smoker, but if he ever quit, he could look me up.
Of course, he insisted he was going to quit anyway, he was quitting, etc.
I bought it (I knew nothing about addiction or addictive personalities at the time), then he proceeded to sneak around and hide and lie about it.
The REST of the time he was golden.
And I finally walked in and had proof of my suspicions.
So, for me, I could have gotten to the stop sign very soon, had I been using my dichot key and saved a bunch of time.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
Of course, most of us (when we are new), can't accept that it really IS that simple. We (and our alcoholics) are terminally UNIQUE. We're the exceptions. We're the world's first five-petaled mustards.
Peace: thanks so much for your posting.
I Love Who I Am
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,210
Girl I am right there with ya. In fact, what I've noticed since starting my own path of recovery, is that I'm initially quite attracted to "bad boys," especially if they're smart and muscly.
But since I started this program, I'm now able to wait and watch. Great thing.
I've been in a couple of friendships that could have become "dating," or at least fling material due to the bad boyness and muscle factor, but I waited. And watched. And sure enough, eventually the physical charm is whisked away by just getting to know them well enough to see the A behavior. Then I run like hell.
Thank the Heavens for this place. You good people have taught me so much.
But since I started this program, I'm now able to wait and watch. Great thing.
I've been in a couple of friendships that could have become "dating," or at least fling material due to the bad boyness and muscle factor, but I waited. And watched. And sure enough, eventually the physical charm is whisked away by just getting to know them well enough to see the A behavior. Then I run like hell.
Thank the Heavens for this place. You good people have taught me so much.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 130
Love this! I'm one of those people that didn't know about the drinking until a little way into the relationship -- but think I should have taken that approach before getting into it. Now I know the answer for the current problem, but for some reason not ready to get back out yet. Every time something really horrid or outrageous happens, I just keep asking myself -- why isn't this enough??
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: rural west
Posts: 1,375
Originally Posted by LexieCat
I like it, too.
Makes the whole confusing thing a little less overwhelming.
Of course, most of us (when we are new), can't accept that it really IS that simple. We (and our alcoholics) are terminally UNIQUE. We're the exceptions. We're the world's first five-petaled mustards.
Makes the whole confusing thing a little less overwhelming.
Of course, most of us (when we are new), can't accept that it really IS that simple. We (and our alcoholics) are terminally UNIQUE. We're the exceptions. We're the world's first five-petaled mustards.
My husband MIGHT be the world's first 5 petaled mustard.
I might win next time I go to Vegas.
The odds aren't on it, I'm afraid.
And I'm not going to continue living that life with those odds.
p
Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 218
I love this FP.
It's the accepting part that's hard, soooo hard. I've spent many years trying to wrench that fifth petal off to get my damned mustard :-)
My bottom helped enormously - being around active alcoholism again messed with my health, my job and my relationships with family and friends. I was, literally, insane by the end. Nowadays my sanity is precious to me. So I can't be around active alcoholism, end of story.
Hugs,
SL.
It's the accepting part that's hard, soooo hard. I've spent many years trying to wrench that fifth petal off to get my damned mustard :-)
My bottom helped enormously - being around active alcoholism again messed with my health, my job and my relationships with family and friends. I was, literally, insane by the end. Nowadays my sanity is precious to me. So I can't be around active alcoholism, end of story.
Hugs,
SL.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Originally Posted by LexieCat
We're the exceptions. We're the world's first five-petaled mustards.
That's me - Lexi, always making exceptions.
FP,
Thank you for illustrating this so clearly.
I appreciate your sharing this with the family.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
But wait, she _needs_ me in order to become that mustard !!! No, really, she's the world most beautiful cactus, _almost_ like a mustard.
That was me with my ex-wife. I really did believe that. Part ego, part loneliness. What I have learned is that people don't need me to change. They do much better at changing if I leave them alone. If I want a mustard maybe I should stop looking in the cactus patch.
Then I went on to #2. A mostly wonderful lady with a nasty addiction to anorexia. I thought food addiction wasn't as bad. Oh boy was I wrong. Still not a mustard but I thought it was close enough. Like FP said, if I hit the first red flag it's time to walk away. Close enough only works in horse-shoes and hand grenades, not in relationships.
Ok, so I'll do better next time
Mike
* makes note: _four_ leaves, not 3 and a half, not five *
That was me with my ex-wife. I really did believe that. Part ego, part loneliness. What I have learned is that people don't need me to change. They do much better at changing if I leave them alone. If I want a mustard maybe I should stop looking in the cactus patch.
Then I went on to #2. A mostly wonderful lady with a nasty addiction to anorexia. I thought food addiction wasn't as bad. Oh boy was I wrong. Still not a mustard but I thought it was close enough. Like FP said, if I hit the first red flag it's time to walk away. Close enough only works in horse-shoes and hand grenades, not in relationships.
Ok, so I'll do better next time
Mike
* makes note: _four_ leaves, not 3 and a half, not five *
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 277
Thanks for the clarity, fp. I was thinking about a visit to the counselor a year ago when she said, "It sounds like he puts alcohol before you and your family. Why is that okay?"
And I nodded in agreement and said nothing. It was almost too hard to hear the first time around.
I should have realized that was the 5th petal and to stop. Your post is going to help me and others as we move on in our relationships, old and new. Thanks for writing it down!
And I nodded in agreement and said nothing. It was almost too hard to hear the first time around.
I should have realized that was the 5th petal and to stop. Your post is going to help me and others as we move on in our relationships, old and new. Thanks for writing it down!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 3,095
I just printed out your post bc the dichotomous key explanation thing is brilliant! I am not a scientist by any stretch but in all parts of my life EXCEPT my r/s logic, facts, proof, reason etc all reign supreme. I've been accused by AH for years of being too "black and white" a thinker when I've set limits (like "no, lying isn't negotiable-- it's not okay" and he tells me that things are not black and white like that) so I've stopped applying reason and logic to my r/s w him (or had stopped).
This is a brilliant post-- thank you SO much for sharing.
Here's my own dichotomous key:
Does he say he will do x, y, z? If yes proceed, If no, end r/s
Does he DO what he says? If no, end r/s. If yes, proceed
That's where I've gotten tripped up for years. I've stuck with the words he says instead of actions and come up with rationalizations to explain his lack of action away that rival the excuses he could come up with.
No more.
This is a brilliant post-- thank you SO much for sharing.
Here's my own dichotomous key:
Does he say he will do x, y, z? If yes proceed, If no, end r/s
Does he DO what he says? If no, end r/s. If yes, proceed
That's where I've gotten tripped up for years. I've stuck with the words he says instead of actions and come up with rationalizations to explain his lack of action away that rival the excuses he could come up with.
No more.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
