How does any Atheist.....
Harleybluz
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
How does any Atheist.....
How does an Atheist who will not ask anyone for help go that first day without drinking? I can't ask my husband to quit drinking just because I've had enough of this life. I can't ask for help because I always feel I'm putting people out if I do. I really don't want to drink anymore. I'd like to check out the other side, for instance, how to have fun without being messed up all the time and then paying for it for 2 days after. I'd like to live for the things to do on weekends instead of living for the drinking on weekends. I need help but don't know how to get it. AA meetings are waaaaay too God oriented for me.
Thanks for listening
Thanks for listening
Member
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,028
Not to offend anyone but....
For me the higher power in AA are all the alcoholics in the room and the strong memories of those that love me and are no longer with me. I ignore the religious stuff and just go with it in AA because it's hearing from other people who understand my condidtion that helps me - I gain strength from others who understand me and that I feel is a higher power.
I brought up the issue of higher power in a couple of different AA groups. I explained my issue with "god" and my beliefs and I was accepted. There are people in my groups that will say, "give us this day our daily strength" instead of "bread" when doing the closing prayer. It's hard to get past the "God" portion for some people and I was one of them. Many of us have it so engrained in our heads that god is some guy "pulling our strings" in the heavens. Spirituality is whatever you can give a higher meaning to that allows you to pull strength from in times where your alcoholic brain is trying to trick you.
Right now I am listening to some CDs that my sponsor gave to me. It's two long time alcoholics giving a weekend long seminar on the BB and the history behind it. It's really given me a different perspective on AA. I think that if you look at AA as the BB book and only that and then have only a filter that locks in on the god factor than you will have a hard time with AA.
Higher power is different for everyone and I accept and respect what everyone believes so I expect that in return.
For me the higher power in AA are all the alcoholics in the room and the strong memories of those that love me and are no longer with me. I ignore the religious stuff and just go with it in AA because it's hearing from other people who understand my condidtion that helps me - I gain strength from others who understand me and that I feel is a higher power.
I brought up the issue of higher power in a couple of different AA groups. I explained my issue with "god" and my beliefs and I was accepted. There are people in my groups that will say, "give us this day our daily strength" instead of "bread" when doing the closing prayer. It's hard to get past the "God" portion for some people and I was one of them. Many of us have it so engrained in our heads that god is some guy "pulling our strings" in the heavens. Spirituality is whatever you can give a higher meaning to that allows you to pull strength from in times where your alcoholic brain is trying to trick you.
Right now I am listening to some CDs that my sponsor gave to me. It's two long time alcoholics giving a weekend long seminar on the BB and the history behind it. It's really given me a different perspective on AA. I think that if you look at AA as the BB book and only that and then have only a filter that locks in on the god factor than you will have a hard time with AA.
Higher power is different for everyone and I accept and respect what everyone believes so I expect that in return.
Harleybluz
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
So, if I bow out of the "Lords Prayer" a the end of the meeting do you think that I will still be accepted into these meetings? I would explain first how I feel, w/o offending anyone of course. I believe that faith is truly a wonderful thing if you have it. It got my Mother throught Parkinson's and the loss of a son. I just cannot get behind it myself. I just need help and don't want to be shunned because my belief's are different from other's. My higher power is nature and my husband and some would argue that God created both but that's not the way I feel and don't want to have to defend my beliefs. I just want to be with people who understand my addiction.
Harleybluz
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by 1undone 
Oh and you can't make your spouse do anything, you can only do for yourself and hope that by doing so they will also fall in line. If not, well that's something you can't project at this time.
Harleybluz
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Wow
Originally Posted by Classical
I found a lot of help here. This is my second time back, and I'm going to couple this with therapy to find out WHY I want to drink so much.
I'm not interested in AA for the exact reasons you state, but I do sincerely appreciate what they do for people.
If you need a "pal" around here, PM me. It seems we think very much alike.
Classical
I'm not interested in AA for the exact reasons you state, but I do sincerely appreciate what they do for people.
If you need a "pal" around here, PM me. It seems we think very much alike.
Classical
Life the gift of recovery!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Home is where the heart is
Posts: 7,061
I came into AA as an atheist because of negative experiences with both religious people and religion as a child. I could not accept that there was a God like they preached.
What I found in AA is that I could have my own concept of a Higher Power. For me it was electricity as it is more powerful than I. It is everywhere in each of us, in nature, in our muscles every time the nerves fire, the wind is a form of energy, etc.... It was out of that simple concept that I learned spirituality. I learned that religion is man made and spirituality is "God" or "Higher Power" made. I could accept that just not religion.
It was through that basic concept that I have been able to stay sober in this program for 10 years. I do hope that you give AA a chance. If you substitute nature for Higher Power or God that might make it easier on you. Personally I know of many atheists in AA, it is not an uncommon thing. Try to look at the similarities rather than the differences. We are all in the same boat trying to beat this thing called alcoholism.
There are also other recovery programs out there. In our alcoholism forum you will find a list of them at the top of the forum. Take a look you might find something that works for you. Here is the link http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html
What I found in AA is that I could have my own concept of a Higher Power. For me it was electricity as it is more powerful than I. It is everywhere in each of us, in nature, in our muscles every time the nerves fire, the wind is a form of energy, etc.... It was out of that simple concept that I learned spirituality. I learned that religion is man made and spirituality is "God" or "Higher Power" made. I could accept that just not religion.
It was through that basic concept that I have been able to stay sober in this program for 10 years. I do hope that you give AA a chance. If you substitute nature for Higher Power or God that might make it easier on you. Personally I know of many atheists in AA, it is not an uncommon thing. Try to look at the similarities rather than the differences. We are all in the same boat trying to beat this thing called alcoholism.
There are also other recovery programs out there. In our alcoholism forum you will find a list of them at the top of the forum. Take a look you might find something that works for you. Here is the link http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...formation.html
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: I'm exactly where I should be.
Posts: 1,889
You don't have to 'have' anything to go to AA except the desire to quit drinking.
There is a difference between a belief in God and a belief in yourself.
I don't know how 'spiritual' you are as most athiests don't have a grasp on 'outer influences' but if it weren't for my faith, my inner power, my strength and my belief that life is a series of sequences and things happen for a reason...I wouldn't be where I am today and wouldn't be able to maintain my sobriety or sanity without some form of higher thought process. Whatever that may be.
Your belief or lack thereof should have no bearing on the type of help you seek. You will never know 'the other side' if you don't cross that line.
Wishing you peace and strength.
There is a difference between a belief in God and a belief in yourself.
I don't know how 'spiritual' you are as most athiests don't have a grasp on 'outer influences' but if it weren't for my faith, my inner power, my strength and my belief that life is a series of sequences and things happen for a reason...I wouldn't be where I am today and wouldn't be able to maintain my sobriety or sanity without some form of higher thought process. Whatever that may be.
Your belief or lack thereof should have no bearing on the type of help you seek. You will never know 'the other side' if you don't cross that line.
Wishing you peace and strength.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,631
First, HarleyBluz, I really share your concerns about quitting drinking--the personal ones about messing up the party by stepping out. Trying to remain "in the party" for everyone else, AND myself, has made it very hard for me to quit and has had me on a merry go round since I began to try to quit in April. So I would say that you (I) have to let that party go. If it goes on without me, it goes on without me. And I can't even pretend to participate--as I have done so far. It just hasn't worked. (And, like EVERYBODY on SR told me it wouldn't, but I had to try.) So I share your concern about the effect this will have on your buddies. Yep. It will. I'm just hoping there's something better for them on the other side as well.
I struggle with faith as well, and I also feel AA is a little inauthentic for me for that reason. But I want to ask you an intellectual question if you don't mind.
If you don't believe, why not say the prayer? Maybe the mantra is valuable. What can it hurt? I struggle with it because I'm not an atheist and live as though I was one so I feel guilty. But I'm guessing if I was an atheist I wouldn't care a whit whether I have to recite something the group believed in.
I mean, I've said the Pledge of Allegiance hundreds of times without ever thinking about it. I honor the intent. I'm somewhat patriotic, but I don't ever really listen.
Isn't it beautiful that that whole group gets up and says that thing together?
Hang in there. PM me if you want to talk about the problems of leaving the group party.
I struggle with faith as well, and I also feel AA is a little inauthentic for me for that reason. But I want to ask you an intellectual question if you don't mind.
If you don't believe, why not say the prayer? Maybe the mantra is valuable. What can it hurt? I struggle with it because I'm not an atheist and live as though I was one so I feel guilty. But I'm guessing if I was an atheist I wouldn't care a whit whether I have to recite something the group believed in.
I mean, I've said the Pledge of Allegiance hundreds of times without ever thinking about it. I honor the intent. I'm somewhat patriotic, but I don't ever really listen.
Isn't it beautiful that that whole group gets up and says that thing together?
Hang in there. PM me if you want to talk about the problems of leaving the group party.
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,649
So, if I bow out of the "Lords Prayer" a the end of the meeting do you think that I will still be accepted into these meetings? I would explain first how I feel, w/o offending anyone of course. I believe that faith is truly a wonderful thing if you have it. It got my Mother throught Parkinson's and the loss of a son. I just cannot get behind it myself. I just need help and don't want to be shunned because my belief's are different from other's. My higher power is nature and my husband and some would argue that God created both but that's not the way I feel and don't want to have to defend my beliefs. I just want to be with people who understand my addiction.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 645
The Lord's Prayer would be a good time to excuse yourself to go to the bathroom. By the time you are done, the prayer will be over and you can chat with the folks after the meeting. Alternatively, you could stand quietly without participating until the prayer is over. No one will judge you. I think the Lord's Prayer is more a tradition than anything. Many of the meetings I attend open with the Responsibility Statement and close with the Serenity Prayer. There are many atheists and agnostics in AA.
AA is a spiritual program, not a religious program. What is important is that you believe or are even willing to believe in a power greater than yourself. That power can be the AA group itself, Good Orderly Direction, Group of Drunks, Goodness, Love, Karma, Nature, etc. What is key is that it is a power greater than yourself and that it makes sense to you. The vast majority of people, atheist or agnostic notwithstanding, are able to acknowledge some power greater than themselves.
When I first came to AA, I used the AA group itself as my higher power. It was a group of people whose collective experience and wisdom was much greater than that of my own solitary experience and wisdom. When the word God or other spiritual expressions are referenced, it means your understanding of those terms. No one else's. I would encouarge you to check out AA and to keep an open mind. Do not let the spirituality of the program deter you from finding the help and the fellowship that you need.
Susan
AA is a spiritual program, not a religious program. What is important is that you believe or are even willing to believe in a power greater than yourself. That power can be the AA group itself, Good Orderly Direction, Group of Drunks, Goodness, Love, Karma, Nature, etc. What is key is that it is a power greater than yourself and that it makes sense to you. The vast majority of people, atheist or agnostic notwithstanding, are able to acknowledge some power greater than themselves.
When I first came to AA, I used the AA group itself as my higher power. It was a group of people whose collective experience and wisdom was much greater than that of my own solitary experience and wisdom. When the word God or other spiritual expressions are referenced, it means your understanding of those terms. No one else's. I would encouarge you to check out AA and to keep an open mind. Do not let the spirituality of the program deter you from finding the help and the fellowship that you need.
Susan
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southeast Arizona
Posts: 31
I consider myself to be a Naturalistic Pantheist; a belief that God resides in all things. Before that, I viewed myself as an atheist. I only arrived at my Pantheistic views after I had been sober for over 20 years. I do not find my spirituality to be too much at odds with most monotheistic faiths; my values and morals are the same and I respect the faiths of others.
I have never had any trouble participating in any religious ceremony because I believe that all faiths are a means to an end, not an end in themselves. Also, I have never been condemned by any monotheist other than a few of the more self-righteous fundamentalists.
During the AA prayer, you can silently recite a mantra or a prayer of your own making. To me, the serenity prayer contains so much essential wisdom that it is worth repeating hourly to oneself even though you may balk at the word "God".
I have never had any trouble participating in any religious ceremony because I believe that all faiths are a means to an end, not an end in themselves. Also, I have never been condemned by any monotheist other than a few of the more self-righteous fundamentalists.
During the AA prayer, you can silently recite a mantra or a prayer of your own making. To me, the serenity prayer contains so much essential wisdom that it is worth repeating hourly to oneself even though you may balk at the word "God".
i've done my almost
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,934
Hi Harley-
I've got some great news for you.
All you need is a desire to stop drinking to attend any AA meeting there is.
It's really that simple. If you've got a desire, then you belong, just as much as the person next to you (regardless of sober time, religious beliefs, social status, race, sex, etc...)
Please post back once you've gone and let us know how it went
Kjell~
I've got some great news for you.
All you need is a desire to stop drinking to attend any AA meeting there is.
It's really that simple. If you've got a desire, then you belong, just as much as the person next to you (regardless of sober time, religious beliefs, social status, race, sex, etc...)
Please post back once you've gone and let us know how it went
Kjell~
Laozi Old Man
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 6,665
Originally Posted by Missy7
If you don't believe, why not say the prayer? Maybe the mantra is valuable. What can it hurt? I struggle with it because I'm not an atheist and live as though I was one so I feel guilty. But I'm guessing if I was an atheist I wouldn't care a whit whether I have to recite something the group believed in.
I mean, I've said the Pledge of Allegiance hundreds of times without ever thinking about it. I honor the intent. I'm somewhat patriotic, but I don't ever really listen.
1. Spiritual Principles do not need to make sense to get results
2. Doing things against our better judgement is an act of humility
3. There is a law in the Universe that rewards beginners:
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Harleybluz
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Missy7
First, HarleyBluz, I really share your concerns about quitting drinking--the personal ones about messing up the party by stepping out. Trying to remain "in the party" for everyone else, AND myself, has made it very hard for me to quit and has had me on a merry go round since I began to try to quit in April. So I would say that you (I) have to let that party go. If it goes on without me, it goes on without me. And I can't even pretend to participate--as I have done so far. It just hasn't worked. (And, like EVERYBODY on SR told me it wouldn't, but I had to try.) So I share your concern about the effect this will have on your buddies. Yep. It will. I'm just hoping there's something better for them on the other side as well.
I struggle with faith as well, and I also feel AA is a little inauthentic for me for that reason. But I want to ask you an intellectual question if you don't mind.
If you don't believe, why not say the prayer? Maybe the mantra is valuable. What can it hurt? I struggle with it because I'm not an atheist and live as though I was one so I feel guilty. But I'm guessing if I was an atheist I wouldn't care a whit whether I have to recite something the group believed in.
I mean, I've said the Pledge of Allegiance hundreds of times without ever thinking about it. I honor the intent. I'm somewhat patriotic, but I don't ever really listen.
Isn't it beautiful that that whole group gets up and says that thing together?
Hang in there. PM me if you want to talk about the problems of leaving the group party.
I struggle with faith as well, and I also feel AA is a little inauthentic for me for that reason. But I want to ask you an intellectual question if you don't mind.
If you don't believe, why not say the prayer? Maybe the mantra is valuable. What can it hurt? I struggle with it because I'm not an atheist and live as though I was one so I feel guilty. But I'm guessing if I was an atheist I wouldn't care a whit whether I have to recite something the group believed in.
I mean, I've said the Pledge of Allegiance hundreds of times without ever thinking about it. I honor the intent. I'm somewhat patriotic, but I don't ever really listen.
Isn't it beautiful that that whole group gets up and says that thing together?
Hang in there. PM me if you want to talk about the problems of leaving the group party.
Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxnard (The Nard), CA, USA.
Posts: 13,935
As a person of no faith or as an atheist or whatever. I know that only I can escape alcoholism. Having support helps, but as an atheist, non-theist, Buddhist kinda person and whatnot, being recovered from alcoholism is not only a job that I can do, but a job that I have done as an atheist.
I found that SMART Recovery, Rational Recovery and CBT are more than enough resources to bring about a psychic change that keeps me on a path of wellness. I can do this without having any faith, belief, whatever in the mystical, supernatural and/or a spiritual realm other than my own innate ability to find healing paths that complement my choice in addiction treatment and lifestyle.
So that's what kind of atheist I am. If other people that call themselves atheist can work the AA program...whatever floats your boat is cool with me.
I do attend open meetings only because I do not identify with the "real alcoholic" or the powerless alcoholic. I Go to AA meetings for various reasons. One is the friendships I have made in AA. In a respect they are a lot like me, people desiring a healthy life alcohol free.
At any rate, go check out a few different AA meetings, see if working the steps is something you would do. I had to try a few recovery programs until I found the right one for me.
I found that SMART Recovery, Rational Recovery and CBT are more than enough resources to bring about a psychic change that keeps me on a path of wellness. I can do this without having any faith, belief, whatever in the mystical, supernatural and/or a spiritual realm other than my own innate ability to find healing paths that complement my choice in addiction treatment and lifestyle.
So that's what kind of atheist I am. If other people that call themselves atheist can work the AA program...whatever floats your boat is cool with me.
I do attend open meetings only because I do not identify with the "real alcoholic" or the powerless alcoholic. I Go to AA meetings for various reasons. One is the friendships I have made in AA. In a respect they are a lot like me, people desiring a healthy life alcohol free.
At any rate, go check out a few different AA meetings, see if working the steps is something you would do. I had to try a few recovery programs until I found the right one for me.
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