LeadHatter

to 'person up' and admit they are ACOA i think i am i mean the more and more i read but im not sure

kittykitty

I admit it every day, i don't need to work up the courage to do it. There's nothing to be ashamed of if you are
What is making you think that you are Kevin?

LeadHatter

thanks for your reply kittykitty

Its not something i find easy to discuss. I AM codependent. In actual fact i have been dissapointed by the responses i have had here previously in the ACOA section of the website. Perhaps i was not being grateful [i have to remind myself about this i am codie sadly and its taken me about 4 months to accept this] or maybe i was simply not going about it right. I dont know Maybe you can help

Quite why is hard to say. Some of this is shame based, like i dont want to tell someone i dont know [yet possibly] personal family stuff. Partly i dont rememember. As i say i have been working my codependent recovery for four months before i can say i am codependent. Im reading one of melody beatties book is indicator #1 I also have a copy of Adult children of Alcoholics by Janet Geringer and this is ringing bells. Plus my own family history suggests some alcohol use atleast. I am feeling shame to expound this point.

I imagine the ACOA section is less well frequented but i do hope having shared the above information you are able to keep in touch kittykitty i have made quite an effort to reach out and would be most dissapointed if this turns out being for nothing. Not that i have a wounded ego how are you doing today

chicory

I am. both parents were my qualifiers.
I was glad when I found out the reason that I was having a tough time in life. I just thought maybe I was just crazy, but now I understand that I was affected by my parents drinking. Nothing to be ashamed of, as kitty kitty says.

hugs
chicory

LeadHatter

thanks chicory it pleases me to see your response and im glad Im not sold on definately being ACOA but it seems a distinct possibility. I have the ACOA book i have described above and the wind is blowing me to that conclusion. After all how can one be codependent without some addict? Well one can have a disturbed individual i guess.

For me discovering i was codependent was like a wow I could be ACOA thanks again for your honest helpful reply chicory. Is there a ACOA community? Im active on the Codependency and beyond thread. Is there a ACOA and onward or summut??

kittykitty

Kevin,
I didn't realize I was an ACOA until about two weeks into Alanon. I thought my ASF (stepfather) had become and alcoholic after my mom died, when I was already 21 or so. When the memories started seeping back in of high school, and grade school, it all came together, and hit me like a ton of bricks.

But what also hit me was relief. Reading about it, and learning why I am the way I am was a relief. I was always under the impression that something was really really wrong with me. All the codie habits I had developed, my self esteem issues, and the fact that I kept choosing the most ridiculous losers as boyfriends, i just couldn't figure out how I was failing at life so horribly. I wasn't looking for something or someone to blame, per say, but seeing that others who were raised in similar situations had the same issues I did brought me extreme comfort.

I realized not so much that someone else was at fault, but more importantly, I was not at fault. Degrading myself on a regular basis for turning out the way I did, and not knowing where I went wrong, was a regular occurrence for me. But through alanon, and reading the literature about codies and ACOAs, i've started breaking through the self hatred, lack of compassion for myself (and others), and learning about who I want to be, not just who I was told I was supposed to be by my ASF. Now I can own my part in my misery, and do something about it. Now I can start to undo the damage.

I had a twenty minute conversation with a woman on a plane this evening, right before we landed in Dallas. We chatted about our work, she was losing a bunch of weight by working out and stuff, and how I want to quit smoking. Started talking about taking care of ourselves. 10 minutes into the conversation, we both admitted we were ACOAs. We talked about our self esteem, and perfectionism, codependancy, all of it. We had a nice conversation, and went our separate ways.

We're everywhere, and we aren't ashamed of who we are and where we came from. It's not our fault, we didn't choose this for ourselves. Some of us had worse experiences than others, but we all share a common bond. If we all navigate these waters of recovery together, I think we'll all come out refreshed and rejuvenated on the other side.

I hope this helps a bit. You aren't alone!

kittykitty

Also, I spend most of my time on the friends and family forum, and we talk about significant others, brothers, sisters, dads, moms, all of it. I think you'll find some good guidance there.

chicory

there is also an adult child of alcoholics forum- tho it is not as busy as the friends and family, there are some really nice people there , working through things, and sharing with others. it is very healing to finally understand where many of our struggles originated from and that we were not born defective. i see an acoa like a tree, that was tied down during its formative years- it grew crooked. we may get away from our alcoholic,cut the ropes,but we stay crooked.by learning about the affects that our parents drinking had on us, we can straighten ourselves out, with understanding and learning- about what is normal. practicing healthy living. learning to love ourselves, and by working the 12 steps. they apply to acoa's also. we can set ourselves free, and do our best to stop the unhealthy family dynamics from being passed on to our children.
Codependency is not a good way to live. there is more to life. i am still just beginning to learn, and I started 20 years ago, but it is so true that alcoholism is a progressive family disease, and will only get worse. for the drinker, and the non-drinking affected family. i am just seeing the truth in that. that i will get sicker, tho i do not drink, if i dont get help for my codependent behaviors.
hugs
chicory

LeadHatter

Kittykitty thanks for your response.

Lots of questions what is ASF [i can quess what qualifiers are but i have not heard it used in this context] high scool and grade school is what age? I really dont know the extent of my fathers drinking. I dont like discussing it here in public. Mores the pity. I have indicators that he enjoyed drink a little too much. I mean he has admitted to me he was alcohol dependent [at one point-when i dont know] and i remember when people asked me where my dad was i used to say 'at the pub or at the match' for a time. again when this was exactly i dont know.

There were other indicators also like finding hidden alcohol during my teen years [again when i dont know]. That he enjoyed drink was clear. How i will know how much???

I liked what you wrote about not blaming someone else but taking the blame from you. Good egg. In my case my mother has had three mental breakdowns in my childhood so there is reasons there for me to not feel too bad about myself. When how why etc is all a bit lost in time.

I am breaking through now as a codependent, its taken time but it is a identify im starting to wear. Its good you are finding reasons to accept your lot Life is tough enough without us degrading ourselves dear me

Im glad you are undoing the damage and thankyou for spending the time to write me this massage. As for admitting i am ACOA that means admitting my father was alcoholic. How i would get there i dont know. I pretty much fit [or did do ] all of the criteria on the back of my ACOA book [the one i mentioned earlier] for BEING ACOA but how bad my dads drinking was i dont know. Did he drink more than my parents 'let on'. Was alcohol a part of my mothers breakdowns or vice versa or both?

How i will ever know is beyond me right now.

I have heard it writting that ACOA can also refer to adult child of ADDICT. Again this is a private matter i mean who would want to publically accuse their parent of being an addict. This is part of the problem. Breaking through that shame/taboo barrier. Im raised catholic for heavens sake FFS

I have my shame. For me [not yet] is there any 'glamour' in being the offspring of a drinker and a lady with 3 breakdowns. I am only recently 'escaping' being codependent on mum and dad for the past 6 years. It was a dependency they nurtured after doing a codie rescue on me and uprooting me back home at 25. I have read and believe that my father in particular nurtured and encouraged my dependency to ccover his own failings. How tragic. And it makes me mad

Quite how you discuss your mother father etc and their drinking publically is quite at a reach for me. My dad would kill me!

Thanks again for your long reply. It has helped. The more i read the ACOA book i have [mentioned above] the more i can identify with me as a boy at school lost and alone. Very sad. Where i go from here heaven i dont know. Im reading codependent no more and have some 12 step groups i goto.

LeadHatter

chicory thanks for your message of Experience Strength and Hope. I am familiar 'a little' with the steps and do believe in god so yes i practice some of the 12 step practices. I can totally identify with the idea of being 'defective'. My dad. Gawd. he was always 'in the problem' he would tell me 'kevin you have an inferiority complex' etc etc but never tell me what i was supposed to do about it. I am gaining strength now.

Thanks for your message of ESH i like what you write about the tree. Its true that we can distance ourselves from mum and dad if they are the ones principally at fault but i guess many of us cant or dont want to cut them off forever. Its a hard balancing act.

This is the ACOA forum we are on now. There is a thread in the newcomers daily support threads you know called codependency and beyond if your interested. Quite who there is ACOA i dont know i have been on it for idk 10 weeks at a punt.

I agree that there is more to life than codependency Im glad you do also. Yay! There is hope for us lot. I am only NOW at 32 learning how to live. So yes i have my hope.

Latte

I figured it out in rehab. Thankfully the therapists in my rehab figured it out before I did. They asked me if I wanted to take part in their Codie group after the regular rehab was done. It was definitely an eye opener. I helped me understand my own addiction issues.

I'm not ashamed, I'm grateful.

dollydo

Add me to the list.

My mother is an alcoholic, has been for 65 years. I am not ashamed to admit that. Playing lets pretend is not going to change the facts.

Sharing my struggles with others has helped me to heal, to grow stronger and learn how to set bounderies with my mother.

Because my mother is an A doesn't mean that I am, no one has ever judged me on that premiss.

Denial is all part of the codependcey issue, we wear rose colored glasses and hope that the problem will just go away, doesn't work that way.

Keep going to meetings, keep posting, it will help.

tromboneliness

Take a look at the ACoA Laundry List (below). If most of these apply to you, then welcome to the club!

The Laundry List – 14 Traits of an Adult Child of an Alcoholic

1. We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.
2. We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
3. We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
4. We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
5. We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
7. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
8. We became addicted to excitement.
9. We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."
10. We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
11. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
12. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
14. Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.

Seren

I'm the adult child of an untreated ACOA.....not sure if that qualifies me, but it sure fed into my codependency!

Hugs, HG

LeadHatter

Latte thanks for putting the time and effort in to reply

LuvinDaisy im sorry about your dad You sound like you are getting help though. Sadly when i read what you say it reminds me of how my father used to get. Sometimes i would be up in my room only to come down and get mixed up in a fight between him and my mother or him and my sister. I wish i handt got mixed up in these fights against my dad now looking back but i was just a kid. It may however have helped drive a wedge between my father and i. My mother helped in this though - she told me to 'save her' from him thus pulling me into their marriage. Only now am i coming to terms with this.

Sadly my dad was the common denominator in most of this so would poirot point the finger of blame at him? Seems plausable. For me admitting i am ACOA is a very shameful thing. Im glad your sister is feeling better. I know there are ACOA groups do you go to any? There is a codependency daily support thread here called codependent and beyond you know in the daily newcomers threads. Please do look read and post if you like. Its not for ACOA's par se but i think ACOA's tend to be codependent [the larger of the two umbrella terms ] so....

LeadHatter

DollyDo i love the idea of 'playing lets pretend' or rather NOT doing those antics and calling a spade a spade. Our family was a bit lets pretend really. We all went to church on a sunday and then screamed blue bl!!dy murder at eachoter 5 days a week! Pft.

My father was the villian i think in our family. Always falling out with someone for idk a good 5 years atleast. I think that when my sister and i went from kids to teens he couldnt hack it. Or maybe thats when the drinking got out of hand.

For me im still in a fear shadow of him and im 32 now!!!!!I improve day by day though so whaddya gonna do Im sorry about your mum. Having a A as a mother must have been tough. You are a survivor. Your here and you are helping me so god bless. I think its great that you dont feel ashamed. Wish i could feel that but i dont. Not yet. Heck why else am i posting here to get more help and to give help too

On the issue of boundaries dolly i dont even know what one is! Thats how f!!ked up i am codependent. Im reading codependent no more and someone posted a link on boundaries but i tend to set melody beattie [codependent no more] as some kind of guru and although i dont think im OCD i like to read her book 'in the right order' and 'at the right pace'. That could be changed i guess. Maybe boundaries were touched upon in the earlier chapters im not so sure. There is something there i feel for me to think on

Im glad you have boundaries set dolly people tell me they are valuable to set even though i dont know what they are!Pah i mean i know that diagram with the two circles where touching is good and overlapping codependent but thats all i can think of right now. Perhaps you can direct me. I think im going to email my codependency recovery pal on the other forum and ask for the link again she gave me on boundaries.

I found it useful what you said dolly about your mother being a A doesnt make you one but when i consider my father as an A [just suppose] the phrase 'like father like son' oom. More work. saints preserve. You seem to have some good perspective though dolly WTG and thanks for your post great!

Dolly wow you have managed to be highly incisive with minimal waffle awesome I guess i can be in denial, unfortunately my fathers sneering voice comes into my head 'oh you cant blame it all on your family you know' he has often been fond of telling me what i cant do [seldom what i can grr ] I guess i will get there

Not sure what meetings you mean. I intend to go to coda for a 2nd meeting but i have issues. Insurmountable? No but im dealing with lots right now. These 5.25 months recovery time [i could punt at about 3 or 4 on the codependency side 5.25 on alcohol] are my first recovery months ever in my life so thats lots of work innit! Thanks for your encouragement support and company

LeadHatter

OMG trombonliness i pretty much meet [or used to meet ] ALL of those 14 charactaristics thanks for the post. WOW. Interestingly [for me atleast] at my first AA meeting the chair described me as 'para kev' i though he was being harsh as an paraNOID but maybe he saw me as a para-alcoholic i had not heard of this term before now so thankyou very much for bringing me into that knowledge. Thankyou. shakes head this is deep stuff.

Ok so if i am ACOA [i do meet ALL of your criteria or used to] trombonliness what do i do to get well. Please share your ESH or tell me how i can recover. This wounds run

LeadHatter

Hydrogirl nice to see you posting Im sorry your parent is untreated ACOA You have reached out to help me before so thanks for this. I do hope you continue to get better as im sure you can - rock and roll sista

kittykitty

I think you need to investigate why admitting your father has/had a drinking problem makes you feel ashamed. It's almost like you feel somehow responsible for the way your father chose to live his life, which i guess is codependancy in a nutshell, so i'm glad your getting help for that. Based on your posts, your mother was also deeply affected by your father's drinking, and if she wasn't getting support or recovering from her own codependancy issues with him, she was just as toxic as your father was during your childhood. All of these things encompass being an ACOA.

Hydrogirl, I think being an ACOA of an untreated ACOA is sometimes worse than being just an ACOA, if that makes sense. Before I started recovery in Al-anon, I was sicker than some of the alcoholics I knew! It was pure chaos for me, while the A just sat back and drank. At times I wished we could have traded places. (not anymore of course, because I found recovery).

The specifics of age, regarding when things happened in the past, is neither here nor there. My mom married my ASF (alsoholic stepfather) when I was about 5, so there's the age it started. It wasn't like every day there were issues, but throughout my life there were episodes that pop into my head. And they are still happening, but I have detached from him and let him live the way he wants to.

If it makes you feel any better, I don't view this forum as 'public'. This place is more secure than an actual meeting, because no one knows who you are, what you look like, the car you drive, nothing. Me and you aren't even in the same country! This is a very safe place to talk about anything, and not worry about finger pointing, blame, judgment, or condemnation. And unless you share your username and password with your father, it's none of his business what you talk about on here. This place is for YOU to recover, I hope you will soon feel comfortable enough to take full advantage of the comfort, support, understanding, and wisdom we have to offer here.

kittykitty

Alanon is a fellowship for the friends and family of alcoholics.. The only requirement for membership is that there be a problem of alcohol in a friend or family member...whether the alcoholic is still drinking or not. We practice the same (almost word for word) 12 steps as they do in AA. It's all about learning how to focus on ourselves, getting over our past, and doing the things we can to change our present and future.

It is in my opinion is the best place to go for recovering from the effects of the alcoholism of others. It sounds like you are in AA already, there are usually alanon meetings in the same vicinity. sometimes same building, as AA meetings.