KellyToronto

My new friend Rod, and myself, both finished rehab recently.

So, like, on Saturday we both cut the grass around lunch time, and worked up a sweat...which, naturally, gave us both triggers to swallow down 3 or 4 beers.

Thank God we didn't. Each of us chose other beverages - ice cold lemonade (in my case), and ice cold orange juice in Rod's case....so, we're still sober.

But, man oh man, you gotta watch for those triggers right out of the blue.

Good meeting yesterday, on the Big Book, also.

Kelly

Dee74

you'll get used to it Kelly

I find cold water or a lemon drink refreshes far more than beer ever did

D

Anna

I'm a fan of sparkling water.

I'm glad you got through the day, Kelly.

Zebra1275

Gatoraide quenches my thirst a lot better than beer ever did.

EmeraldRose

Jeeeze...ya scared me for a minute there. Good choice.
I've been drinking Sobe Lifewater (yummy pomegranate).

omegasupreme

If you are alcoholic as described in that book you mentioned (page 21), then you did not choose lemonade and you didn't not choose beer. See, the man or woman on page 21 has lost the power of choice in drink.

The scenario you mentioned sounds like one of those "suddenly" moments like our friend Jim had in the sandwhich shop or one of those "at certain times" moments I used to have. My problem is that I have no idea what "certain times" look like, I cut the grass, I don't...she leaves, she comes back...see I don't have a clue, so my defense M U S T must come from a Power greater than myself.

If I could choose to drink lemonade every time and be successful then I would not be alcoholic and have no need to come to those meetings, work those steps, and help all those fellow sufferers. I could just choose not to drink one day at a time and live a great life.

resumebreakdown

From Page 21 of "Alcoholics Anonymous" (1st Edition):

From "The Doctor's Opinion" in "Alcoholics Anonymous" (1st Edition):

From Page 22 of "Alcoholics Anonymous" (1st Edition):

From Page 24 of "Alcoholics Anonymous" (1st Edition):
"Most Alcoholics" = Not All Alcoholics


From Page 32 of "Alcoholics Anonymous" (1st Edition):

instant

Hi Kelly. I am pleased you going well and making choices that will lead to a productive future with less pain than the past. Well done

littlefish

You know, sometimes I think too much preaching sends people running and screaming from the church.

However you managed that moment, for whatever reason Kelly, you have every reason to be proud of yourself, despite whether the particulars of your victory don't match someone else's definition of victory.

Good for you! I like sun tea myself.

omegasupreme

If there is anything you can do to stay sober on your own, then by all means do it. God bless you. No need to come to the rooms of AA then.

I operate on the morality of "is it working for you?" and if it is, then cool beans.

One consideration: Could all of those be drunk traps...for someone looking for a way to not do the work?

I was taught to match my experiences with those in our text, look for the similarities, not the differences. The ego likes to use hundreds of tools to make me think I am different.

Kjell

Great job Kelly!

resumebreakdown

It didn't sound like that was what you were saying. It sounded like you were saying to Kelly that he was not alcoholic.

How do you know his HP didn't step in to help him make the right choice there?

Yes, there are many excuses people try and come up with to not do the work, but Kelly did not say he was not doing the work.

I've heard quite a few people introduce themselves as a "real alcoholic" or a "page 21 alcoholic" in order to sound important.

Although the text uses the the term "real alcoholic" there is no functional distinction in the Big Book between alcoholic and real alcoholic. In fact, the terms are used interchangeably.

On pages 20-21, it describes the moderate drinker, the hard drinker, and the real alcoholic.

If the authors had intended to imply that there is a difference between alcoholic and real alcoholic, they would have described an alcoholic right after the hard drinker and right before the real alcoholic.

omegasupreme

No where in the steps does it promise that the power of choice will be returned. What kind of HP would return the power of choice to you regarding something that nearly killed you?

What it does promise is that I will be placed in a position of neutrality, safe and protected.

In a position of neutrality I have about as much choice to drink as I have choice to not drink. Hence, "neutral."

DayTrader

Nowhere.... of course that doesn't appear in the book.

And Resume, you're right in one important way, "...most alcoholics..." It specifically does NOT say ALL. As Omega mentioned, if you have the power to choose to not drink......and you continue to make the right choice.......then choose not to drink and keep yourself sober. Unfortunately, for most alcoholics, they don't have that power. The AA book separates these two groups by calling the ones with choice "hard drinnkers" and the ones with no choice "alcoholics." For some reason, EVERY "hard drinker" I've ever run into seems to like to call themselves alcoholic......then go on to talk about having the power of choice......but that's another story and I don't want to derail Kelly's thread any further.

KELLY......gotta admit......I read the "3 or 4 beers" line and slammed my mouse against my desk! .......then I read the next sentence. Ya jerk.....you scared me.

One thing about "triggers": they're not real. I repeat, IF you're an alcoholic, "not being drunk" is your only trigger. The thought to drink can and will come at you from a million different angles and with little consistency. What triggers you today, might not tomorrow, yet will again in a month. So.......if being dry is THE trigger, what does one do? ---GET RECOVERED. Get to the point where that insanity of taking the next first drink goes away. Some ppl can do this by deciding to......many can't. Find your truth (whether you can decide to not have those thoughts anymore or not) and make your move.

Early in sobriety, most ppl hit a place where, upon being dry for a while, start to feel pretty good, their mood picks up, their health improves a bit, relationships with family, friends, and co-workers start to improve........we start feeling good. For many ppl, the next thought is, "I'm doing better.....one or two won't hurt THIS TIME, given everything I've learned about alcoholism and addiction in treatment."

I couldn't stop "those thoughts" myself. And I know me......self-centered to the core.......get me thinking I want something....or "need something........badly enough......long enough.......and I'm GOING to act upon it. In this scenario, where booze is concerned, I can't take the chance that I'll be able to control those urges. AA was the only place I FOUND that not only told me buy promised AND guaranteed me that IF I did the work, my drinking and "living" problems would be a thing of the past.

The choice is, obviously, yours to make. Don't take those "warning shots" of the insanity of the next first drink lightly though. Sometimes we need reminders like that to keep us moving down the path of recovery rather than standing around smelling the roses.......standing still while our alcoholism catches up to us.

xoxo........glad yer home, glad you're out of rehab, and glad you learned a lot there - don't forget to put it into action.

resumebreakdown

One that is looking out for you. Neither the steps nor the promises say that the power of choice will be removed, either.

What they do say is that God will do for us what we cannot do for ourselves; in this case, make the right choice.

As stated earlier, the text also makes clear that not all alcoholics have lost the power of choice. It even gives the story of the man who had definite signs of alcoholism and was able to stay bone dry for twenty-five years on page 32.

No, it does not promise that. It says it will feel that way.

From page 85, Alcoholics Anonymous, 1st Ed:
The text also does not say that we will never be tempted. From page 84, BB, 1st Ed:

resumebreakdown

I can see your point there.

But, "real" is used as an adjective, so "real alcoholic" is not a noun, a separate entity, even though some people like to use it that way.

It doesn't mean something different from alcoholic. Real alcoholic refers to someone who is really, actually, alcoholic, not someone who is some special kind of alcoholic.

If the the authors wanted to say the two were different, they would have described "alcoholic" after "hard drinker" and before describing the "real alcoholic."

DayTrader

Dee74

I think the engine is laying over to the side with this thread.
Time to move on....

D