Neglect - Abuse or Enabling ?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3
Neglect - Abuse or Enabling ?
My mother is a Chronic Alcohlic ...... And I love my mother more then anything!
My question is this ........... My mother has a bad heart condition and bad liver damage as you can imagin drinking is not the best thing for her heart.
My parents house in a 2 level home, upstairs & down both have kitchens and bathrooms ect. 99% mother lives up stairs and father downstairs.
When my mother drinks, my father lockes the door so she can not come down into the his level, he takes the phones, her purse, ect. And lets her drink upstairs to the point of she is lying in piles of vomit, wetting herself, and falling down again and again until she no longer has anything to drink and sobers up. And never checks on her until she runs out of boose and sbers up.
I have asked many times, Please if you d not want to deal with her drinking please call me so in the least she can be checked on ....... if for nothing else to make sure she is not in danger. Sometimes she has been left for 2 or 4 days before he tells anyone what is going on.
She has in the past broken her wrists in falls, fallen into a widow cutting herself t pieces. When I have brought her to the hospital she has had blood alchol levels as high as 3.6 and blood pressure in the 260's and a pulse of 160
And the doctors always ask why it took so long to be brought in ??
My fathers says - helping or checking is only enabling her and that she must hit rock bottom ect. ( being told this by the last treatment center staff )
I think this is Neglect or Abuse on my fathers part?
My question is this ........... My mother has a bad heart condition and bad liver damage as you can imagin drinking is not the best thing for her heart.
My parents house in a 2 level home, upstairs & down both have kitchens and bathrooms ect. 99% mother lives up stairs and father downstairs.
When my mother drinks, my father lockes the door so she can not come down into the his level, he takes the phones, her purse, ect. And lets her drink upstairs to the point of she is lying in piles of vomit, wetting herself, and falling down again and again until she no longer has anything to drink and sobers up. And never checks on her until she runs out of boose and sbers up.
I have asked many times, Please if you d not want to deal with her drinking please call me so in the least she can be checked on ....... if for nothing else to make sure she is not in danger. Sometimes she has been left for 2 or 4 days before he tells anyone what is going on.
She has in the past broken her wrists in falls, fallen into a widow cutting herself t pieces. When I have brought her to the hospital she has had blood alchol levels as high as 3.6 and blood pressure in the 260's and a pulse of 160
And the doctors always ask why it took so long to be brought in ??
My fathers says - helping or checking is only enabling her and that she must hit rock bottom ect. ( being told this by the last treatment center staff )
I think this is Neglect or Abuse on my fathers part?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Originally Posted by Chessbear 
And lets her drink upstairs to the point of ......
I think this is Neglect or Abuse on my fathers part?
Sounds like dad has given her the dignity to make her own choices. Mom seems to be choosing alcohol or the alcohol is choosing her, depending on one's outlook.
Sounds like dad has decided to accept her as is/where is and protects himself and the world from her when she binges.
Dad is not your mother's keeper. Short of restraining/gagging her 24/7 (abuse) what is dad supposed to do?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Wow. I do not know how to answer this post except that outtolunch made some good points. I am so sorry for your situation. That must be very hard for everyone involved.
Do you attend Al-Anon? You might find it helpful. There are many good books on alcoholism as well as good resources at the top of this forum's home page (stickies).
Good luck!
~T
Do you attend Al-Anon? You might find it helpful. There are many good books on alcoholism as well as good resources at the top of this forum's home page (stickies).
Good luck!
~T
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
I'm going to respectfully disagree because it seems more like punishment or anger towards her alcoholism to lock her up like that. Locking the door is not allowing her to make a choice. He isn't letting her fend for herself, he is locking her up.
I would suggest calling your local adult protective service agency and just asking them (anonymously) if this would be considered neglect or abuse. Locking anyone up against their will, no matter how drunk she is, isn't the right way to deal with what your dad is going through. If she had locked herself in to drink herself to oblivion, that would be one thing but she isn't doing that (I think).
Sounds like he is overwhelmed and needs more support.
I would suggest calling your local adult protective service agency and just asking them (anonymously) if this would be considered neglect or abuse. Locking anyone up against their will, no matter how drunk she is, isn't the right way to deal with what your dad is going through. If she had locked herself in to drink herself to oblivion, that would be one thing but she isn't doing that (I think).
Sounds like he is overwhelmed and needs more support.
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
I think it depends upon whether or not she can go outside of her own free will.
Is she locked in upstairs, unable to get out?
Or is the house set up like an apartment, where each level has its own locked door, and he's merely locking her out of his section?
If she's locked in, then it's abuse.
If he's locking her out of his level only, but she is free to go, then it's a bit more hazy - I would say "not enabling," except for the taking her purse and phone part, which is very controlling.
Is she locked in upstairs, unable to get out?
Or is the house set up like an apartment, where each level has its own locked door, and he's merely locking her out of his section?
If she's locked in, then it's abuse.
If he's locking her out of his level only, but she is free to go, then it's a bit more hazy - I would say "not enabling," except for the taking her purse and phone part, which is very controlling.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
Depending on her age this can be very dangerous. If she is locked up & can't get outside this is a police matter. She may be a chronic alcoholic but she does not deserve that. Alcoholism in the stage you are describing can be fatal.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicago area
Posts: 4,269
Given what has been written, all things considered, it does not sound as though mom is capable of reason as the binge progresses.
I inferred she was locked out of his apartment. Let's turn it around and assume he locks her inside her apartment. By doing so, he prevents her from DUI or hitting the streets where she is at even greater danger to herself and the public.
I inferred she was locked out of his apartment. Let's turn it around and assume he locks her inside her apartment. By doing so, he prevents her from DUI or hitting the streets where she is at even greater danger to herself and the public.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Great Outdoors
Posts: 1,992
Chessbear..I am sorry you are going thru this. It must cause you alot of turmoil. Next time the doctors ask what took you so long to bring her in..maybe you should tell them. I know your dad sounds like he is at the end of his rope but this is bordering on absurd. No phone to call for help..not good. I hope you can call someone and get some councilling on how to deal with this. I think you need some help at this point.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
Hopefully, there is no physical abuse going on. Alcoholic women are more likely be the victim in domestic abuse. Anyways, my prayers go out for you & your family. Maybe consult an attorney on the legal aspects of what's going on??
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3
Thank you for your imput so far but I would like to make a few things clear
1. In her last treatment we were told she was non treatable and maybe she needed to be put into a longterm home for life. This my father refuses too do
2. The doctors have said ( Medical Doctors ) that anytime she drinks it could be her last time.
3. Yes the whole family suffers, and I feel bad for my father having to go through this. But all I have asked is please ...... call me or my Brother or Sister when she starts, I never expected him too deal with this on his own, but the doctors clearly said she needed 24 hour watching. I have asked many times to let me take her home too live me for a while.
4. My father is a control freak, and she had suffered 40 years of verbal abuse from him, he needs as much help as she does.
5. She has never driven a car or attempted to do so.
6. I don't know why he takes the phone
7. She is able to get out too the outside from the upstairs
I guess my thinking is this ..... its not a self control issue anymore with her, she is not capable anymore to make choices anymore ( Doctors Agree ) So to leave someone unattended when there is a huge risk of death involved or lying with broken bones for days.
A little history in saying her Father and Grandfather all were the same
1. In her last treatment we were told she was non treatable and maybe she needed to be put into a longterm home for life. This my father refuses too do
2. The doctors have said ( Medical Doctors ) that anytime she drinks it could be her last time.
3. Yes the whole family suffers, and I feel bad for my father having to go through this. But all I have asked is please ...... call me or my Brother or Sister when she starts, I never expected him too deal with this on his own, but the doctors clearly said she needed 24 hour watching. I have asked many times to let me take her home too live me for a while.
4. My father is a control freak, and she had suffered 40 years of verbal abuse from him, he needs as much help as she does.
5. She has never driven a car or attempted to do so.
6. I don't know why he takes the phone
7. She is able to get out too the outside from the upstairs
I guess my thinking is this ..... its not a self control issue anymore with her, she is not capable anymore to make choices anymore ( Doctors Agree ) So to leave someone unattended when there is a huge risk of death involved or lying with broken bones for days.
A little history in saying her Father and Grandfather all were the same
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3
And I would like to say as far as Doctors, her Medical Doctor, and Treatment staff all agreed long term care was the only real anwser.
She is 59 years old and has been in treatment ( 30 day plus ) over 8 times
Both her father and Grandfather Died of heart Attacks when Drinking
She is 59 years old and has been in treatment ( 30 day plus ) over 8 times
Both her father and Grandfather Died of heart Attacks when Drinking
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
I believe there are numbers you can call, for the elderly, if you feel they are living in unsafe conditions.
I think it might help in this case for your mother. They'd send a social worker out to look at her condition, decide if it was safe or not, and if not she'd be assigned a social worker and they would check in on her and help out with her living conditions.
Someone in the forum did call it on their alcoholic mother once, and it seemed to work well. (Not for recovery, mind you, but for preventing the situation you're describing.) You could potentially consider that?
Unfortunately, I don't remember what it's called. Can anyone else chime in on the name of this organization?
I think it might help in this case for your mother. They'd send a social worker out to look at her condition, decide if it was safe or not, and if not she'd be assigned a social worker and they would check in on her and help out with her living conditions.
Someone in the forum did call it on their alcoholic mother once, and it seemed to work well. (Not for recovery, mind you, but for preventing the situation you're describing.) You could potentially consider that?
Unfortunately, I don't remember what it's called. Can anyone else chime in on the name of this organization?
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: the moon, milky way
Posts: 1,250
Suggesting a care facility means she does need round the clock care. If she isn't in one, it is assumed that someone else in the family is making sure she is safe (if she stops breathing, a fire breaks out, etc).
The fact that she does have outside access is better but she doesn't sound like she has the capacity to care for herself most of the time?
I'd notify her doctor's about the situation with your dad (in detail). If they intervene then it won't be on you or your siblings to have to be put in that position.
You do have it right and a clear idea of what is going on. Hope you can get some peace of mind about it soon.
OH and it is Adult Protective Services or Adult and Aging Services. Usually it is run by your county under Health and Human Services. A social worker can assess the situation and give your dad/family resources. It seems like all of you are overwhelmed.
The fact that she does have outside access is better but she doesn't sound like she has the capacity to care for herself most of the time?
I'd notify her doctor's about the situation with your dad (in detail). If they intervene then it won't be on you or your siblings to have to be put in that position.
You do have it right and a clear idea of what is going on. Hope you can get some peace of mind about it soon.
OH and it is Adult Protective Services or Adult and Aging Services. Usually it is run by your county under Health and Human Services. A social worker can assess the situation and give your dad/family resources. It seems like all of you are overwhelmed.
Member
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,103
I agree. This sounds nuts.
And how is it NOT enabling? Where is she getting the alcohol? She doesn't sound capable of going out and getting it herself. Does the husband go out, get her bottles of booze, then locks her in the room?
As for the OP, it's gotta be tough for her to be stuck in the middle of this. Al-anon would be crucial for her so she can get some help detaching.
And how is it NOT enabling? Where is she getting the alcohol? She doesn't sound capable of going out and getting it herself. Does the husband go out, get her bottles of booze, then locks her in the room?
As for the OP, it's gotta be tough for her to be stuck in the middle of this. Al-anon would be crucial for her so she can get some help detaching.
Originally Posted by MsCooterBrown
Chessbear..I am sorry you are going thru this. It must cause you alot of turmoil. Next time the doctors ask what took you so long to bring her in..maybe you should tell them. I know your dad sounds like he is at the end of his rope but this is bordering on absurd. No phone to call for help..not good. I hope you can call someone and get some councilling on how to deal with this. I think you need some help at this point.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
Originally Posted by outtolunch
Thank you Chess.
Given mom can't drive and I assume she is not employed, does the booze fairy bring it in the house?
Given mom can't drive and I assume she is not employed, does the booze fairy bring it in the house?
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
