ValJester

Oh how I hate the thought of putting my over –tuned sensory detectors into action to work out if it is safe for my little DD6 to have a sleepover with mum. Dear wife is working at recovery but struggling hugely, it’s rare for her to go more than a couple of weeks without some very secret beverages and who know what happens when I’m not in communication.

Because generally there has been a lot of sobriety the littlest girl has been staying over three nights a week and everyone is happy. Trouble is how do I make a good call on safety? My dear wife can drink a bottle of wine and show very few signs, add 1/3 of vodka and then you will see some of the telltale indicators.

Historically (and I mean in the last few weeks) any suggestion of being under the influence has met with a concrete wall of denial. (I should add that it only relates to when it affects me, I’m not policing her) One time when we all staying over my eldest (16) and I got that OMG, no not again thing and checked ourselves out (the 6 yr old was at a friend’s house) but it was unpleasant as she maintained it was unfair.

What have others here done to help them make a call on this? If I go on gut instinct and end up saying , “...sorry babe, you seem to have had a drink and we’re just uncomfortable staying, were going back to our house...” there will be major indignation and accusations that I am being unfair. (keep in mind she will absolutely never admit to drinking if it were the case).

I should give her more credit for wanting it to work; she agreed to take a breathalyzer test if I asked and I still can’t believe I went and bought one. It just seems so demeaning. We sort of managed to agree on it because it seemed there was no way around the impasse around trust and it seemed if I would never believe her if she seemed to just behaving ‘alcoholically’ as she puts it versus drinking and behaving ‘alcoholically’

How insane is it to do a breath test before and after kids visits? It seems crackers but I like the idea of taking the personal confrontation out of it!

wanttobehealthy

Boy do I wish I knew how to answer this. I have dragged my feet for well over a year about divorcing my AH because of this.

I have no idea how to gauge sobriety or my D's (5 and 3) safety with their father. Clearly taking him at his word is NOT an option (though he would have you and I and the world believing that his word is credible).

I wish I had an answer for you.

I can empathize and I think that you are a great Dad for being concerned about and aware of the potential lack of safety issues your D faces being unsupervised with her Mom.

Is there anything in your divorce that talks about her sobriety as related to visitation/custody? Could you go to the court and ask that they do supervised visitation or give her random testing? I'm shooting in the dark here. It's a big fear of mine as well.

nodaybut2day

What does your custody order say?

Really, it all comes down to that. I'm not certain it would be legal for you to administer a breathalizer test before/after visitation unless she is ordered to abstain from drinking during visitation. Because my XAH never showed up to defend his rights, I got put into my custody order that we shall BOTH abstain from drugs and alcohol while having DD in our care. In my case,it's not an issue since I can't drink a glass of wine without puking my guts out, but for XAH it was a big problem. Once I obtained sole custody, I also got the right to refuse visitation should I deem the situation to be unsafe for DD. We had already decided that visitation should take place during the early afternoon, from 12h to 16h, when XAH was likely to not be hung over from the night before, and not likely to have started drinking again for the following night. It was the "optimal visitation time for an alkie parent", IMO.

Perhaps if you do not have a custody order in place, it would be time to consult with a lawyer about what you can do to file for sole custody and/or limited/supervised visitation. In the meantime, it would be useful to shorten the visits or limit them to times where your AW isn't likely to be drunk.

I'm sorry I don't have the magic answer...it really sucks to coparent with an active alcoholic.

lillamy

Less insane than leaving your child with a drunk.

It might be the wrong day to ask me, but I'm requesting urine tests before AXH gets visitation. He gets to choose between that and state supervised visitation.

blueblooms14

I think its a great idea. Maybe try this approach? "I'll buy both of us breathalyzers and at each exchange we will both blow into each other's machines." That takes the finger pointing out of it and is a mutual promise- you could put in email, so its in writing. If either one of you registers other than zeros or refuses to blow into both breathalyzers, kids go with the other parent. If you both register alcohol consumption, you agree to call "Aunt Nancy" (or someone you agree to) and the kids go there. That makes it 100% about the kids. She protects them from your possible misconduct; you protect them from her possible misconduct. Maybe she'd go for it?

ValJester

Thanks Guys,

We are informally separated and I have not pulled the trigger on a formal access order.

(My solicitor says its a slam dunk, given the history, that all visits would have to be supervised by a family member) and I'm not quite ready for that shock-and-awe just yet.

The last few times she has called me late on the nights DD6 has stayed over and sounded very sober so I have not pulled the sleep-overs as yet.

Yes sobriety has not taken hold, and, rather like the economist who says things are better because the rate of decline is not as bad, I'm measuring longer gaps, and lesser severity in the drinking, as progress.



I'm not so naive so believe that it is anyway close to satisfactory for our co-habiting..

nodaybut2day

How about getting a temporary custody order until such time that she can prove 1 year's sobriety or something similar? Until that time, visits can be often, but short, and supervised by a trusted family member.

I find it very alarming that she is caring for a child while intoxicated.

It may put you in the bad guy role to take the "Shock and Awe" tactic, but what if something were to happen to your child while in her care? IMO, it's worth it to don the Bad Buy cape if it means your child isn't in danger.

wanttobehealthy

ValJester- I am the bad guy BIG TIME with my AH, his entire family and my mother at times bc I will NOT allow him to stay with the girls alone- ever. I haven't "caught" him drunk at home with them in a long time but the threat is there that it could happen and since he is not in recovery I am not willing to risk their safety to make him feel okay.

I am sure it hurts you to think about restricting your kids time with their mom but all it takes is one moment for an irreperable tragedy.

I'd also caution you to be sure that whomever the family is that supervises visits (if you go that route) is someone who is not an enabler. For ex/ I've told AH that when he's had his family visit and wants me to leave the girls with them all that that is not an option. I didn't win ms congeniality that day either but I don't care. His family plies him w booze bc I "restrict his freedom" so they will not be the supervision that makes it okay for me to leave the girls alone.

Ultimately it doesn't matter how upset your ex wife feels about your limits. Your kids can't protect themselves. You have to.

In a lot of ways you're a better parent than me bc you are done with the marriage and out of the day to day interaction with your wife. But your current situation is precisely what worries me so much about divorcing my H and has given me a LOT to talk with my lawyer about to be sure to have in place.

I'm sorry you are going through this-- no one deserves this-- not you, not your kids...

theuncertainty

I'm astounded that she agreed to take it. I'd personally be kind of anticipating a huge blow out and major round of denial the first time it comes back saying she's been drinking.... But that's just based on my experience with XAH:

During our divorce hearing, my attorney asked XAH if he'd taken any drug/alcohol tests since coming back from rehab.
XAH: No.
Attorney: Would you be willing...
XAH talked over her with: Why would I do that?
Attorney: Excuse me?
XAH: Why would I do that?
Here the judge interrupted XAH's interruption and said: That means 'no'.
XAH: Yeah! (Sounding for all the world like a spoiled little kid sticking his tongue out at his teacher.)
Attorney: Would you say having unsupervised visits with your son is important?
XAH: Yeah, of course!
Attorney: So would you be willing to do alcoholic testing in order to have
He interrupts again: What. What is this "testing"? Explain it. Would I have to take time off from work? Explain it to me.

God, I love that man. *creating a lake-o-sarcasm surrounding my desk*

ValJester, please stop beating yourself up. You could give her all the credit in the the world - you could even give her credit for finding the cure for the common cold and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. I gave XAH kudos for doing the stupidest stuff, things that 'normal' people do every day (washing the dishes, taking out the trash, going 4 hours without a drink...), all it did was make him expect it any time he lifted a finger.

It's a demeaning, terrible disease. Taking the steps you need to take to make sure your little ones are safe is heroic, IMO.

wanttobehealthy

Much like I said to NDBT I think earlier today, I am sure you were not intending to be a comic here but reading this I just busted out (wow, that sounds really intelligent huh?) laughing imagining your XAH in court.... I know it's not supposed to be funny, but well, you have a gift for comedic timing in your descriptions!

theuncertainty

Thank you, thank you *flourishing bows* all around. I have to admit to snerking quite a bit as I think about it. I probably wouldn't find it nearly as funny if the judge hadn't seen through it. Glad he did.

wanttobehealthy

Can you send that judge my way?!

Standing ovation (to you for your story telling, to your AH for being such a moron and walking into his own demise, to the atty for being brilliant and the judge for seeing through it all!

Your story entertained me! It's one of those that belongs in the Darwin Awards books.

Jeep08

I have had the same idea on many occasions in the last 4 years. It’s hard to judge when they are so good at hiding it. Your wife sounds so much like my wife. They know they have a problem, and have been fitting it but have had failures.

I have not had the courage to ask my wife if she would use one. It would have a huge benefit that it would drop your stress level incredibly. It would take the horrible guesswork and uncertainty out of if she was sober or not around the kids. I don’t know if I will ever ask but have not ruled the possibility out in the future if it is a tool I feel I need. Sounds like it’s a tool you wish you had.

Right now I want my wife to have one on one time with the kids. She has worked hard and deserves some time with the kids without my interference. We are still together and trying to work on our marriage so I am going to be there most nights.

If I was ever to ask her I think it should be a discussion of benefits vs positives. Would the negative feelings she has about taking the breathalyzer be less than the benefit to you of taking away the uncertainty. How would your wife feel if it was put to her that way? You are still a married couple could you talk about it and jointly make the decision in advance? It sounds like you have some good discussions about the kids and her attempts toward recovery. Make an agreement before when she is not drinking. If she agrees and then changes the rules then you know something may be up.