coffeedrinker

If I asked 20 people what they thought of us entering some counseling together, I'm pretty sure 19 of them would say, "What?!" "Red flag" or "Problems already? That's just not normal"

I actually said this to the therapist, and added "But I disagree. I think it takes courage, and I think it's confronting a small problem at the front end instead of waiting for it to become a giant problem." She responded, "It is being pro-active."
I thought that was a good statement.

We have been dating for 10 months.

He is two years sober.

We are seeing a man/woman duo who work in the same office. (Great idea, for anyone considering this.)

Adrenaline has been coursing through my body since the meeting ended.

I'm a little excited; a LOT scared.

I was asked, "what is it that you'd like" in the relationship?
I answered, "well, the short answer, is that I think I'd like this to grow into a long-term, loving, committed relationship".

He did not have an answer when asked the same thing. Said he is trying to do the Live In The Moment thing, and wondering, speculating, wishing for a certain thing (any thing, not just this) in his future is something he has intentionally worked against doing.

So here I am, really liking this man, loving this man, and thinking that there is some serious potential. Enough of all those things that I'm AFRAID.
Afraid that it's going to end.

Oh me, oh my. Exactly what I feared months ago.

The good news, is that I am not so hooked I will hang on to the very end. I care enough about myself and my life that I will leave if it becomes clear that I should.

The bad news, is that I care this much.
I'm now in knots.

Just posted, cuz I need to be here with you guys.

barb dwyer

wow.
all that - from one session.

wait till you get more under yer belt LOL!

cheerin for ya!

wanttobehealthy

Even though I might find myself saying similar things as you, reading it when written by someone else makes it clearer somewhat.

Correct me if I am wrong but this part sounds like co-dependency a bit? Or maybe that's just my codie mind reading it that way...

I'd feel afraid of it ending too and feel scared if I let it out of the bag that I hoped it might be a long term thing and he didn't mirror that. But maybe just try and accept that you feel freaked out a bit, tell yourself that it's normal to feel what you feel even if it's uncomfortable and maybe that will take away some of its power? (I say this as I sit here doing this exact thing related to how much I am freaking out about getting the subpoena today)....

You can't predict what will happen (again, something I am sitting here telling myself right at this very moment!) so as much as you can (and boy do I know how hard this is) try and enjoy moment by moment. I find that even the one day at a time plan is too much sometimes. Lately it's one hour at a time for me!

TakingCharge999

((Hugs))
I wish I had wisdom
I don't

Great idea to go to therapy so if he is not the one for you, you stop losing time!
Give the relationship to HP
Your fearful feelings to HP
Go "Here you are HP, YOU handle this!" then go on with whatever else makes YOUR heart sing
Well at least that is what I have been doing lately..
I have thought its not about one man or the other man... its about my relationship with Man.. that is just a mirror of my relationship with myself. The beings around are just representations of that entity..well, at least this helps me dettach from a particular person (even if they are still in my life)

No one is "yours" anyway...
Hope something on this post made sense..

blueblooms14

That's really nice! I'm glad you've found someone you care about and are considering creating a life with. Very good, heart warming.

Babyblue

Ooooch, I'm like you. I would have crawled under a chair after hearing him say that.

But from where I'm sitting, his answer isn't necessarily counter to yours. It is looking at it from a different lense. That is all he is pointing out.

If he didn't want a future with you, he would not be in counseling with you. Remember it is the actions, not words.

Therapy is good at getting him to communicate better but try not to expect too much from each session. Go with the flow.

It isn't what is said as much as it is the process of him reflecting on the relationship, even if the answers make you uncomfortable. Men in particular have a tough time opening up in therapy, so it may take time for him to let his guard down.

That is what I saw his answer as, a self protective thing.. it said 'up to now I haven't been analyzing our situation'. Doesn't mean he doesn't want what you want.

Couples therapy is fine, even early on but try not to have expectations about how he is going to respond in it. Sometimes just the act of going is a BIG step in the right direction, even if all he says is gibberish during the session

laurie6781

Okay .............................. I was taught, as many in AA are taught, to STAY IN THE NOW, DO THE FOOTWORK, and STAY OUT OF THE RESULTS. That puts many of us, in the first few years of recovery literally trying very hard to stay in today. If I apply for a job, I apply for it and keep moving forward in the day, I don't sit analyzing what I did or didn't do and I just know I am not going to get it. If I go on a date with someone I like, I enjoy the date and don't fret about will we have a second one or will he call me next week. If I am house hunting and make an offer, I wait, while getting on with the business of today, with as much grace as I can muster and stay the he!! out of the sellor accepting my offer or counter offering or or or. If I am going on a vacation, I get my tickets and my reservations, and then put it aside until the day arrives. You get the idea.

When I was out there practicing my disease I was great at 'fanciful' thinking and 'day dreaming.' When I got to AA, my sponsor and others worked very hard to keep me in TODAY until I was able to start doing it myself.

You are 'awfulizing.' He is 2 years into recovery. He is still practicing, practicing, practicing, not going into the future and into 'pipe dreams.' He is still working on today.

My first reaction when I read what you posted about his answer was:

'good job, he is right where he is suppose to be, not off daydreaming, but working on today.'

I was impressed by his answer.

Total opposite reaction to you. Probably because I have been where he is, and I have been where you are.

I am wondering, however, if this couple have done any serious addiction counseling or have just a passing past interest in it? If not then a lot of his answers and responses are going to seem 'really off the wall to them.'

J M H O based on my own experiences in recovery.

Love and hugs,

LaTeeDa

Laurie is spot on. I've found that here and now is the absolute best place to be. In fact, it's the only place we possibly can be. Staying present allows the future to take care of itself. Not only that, but worrying about the future actually mucks up today.

L

coffeedrinker

honey, that's exactly what i've been trying to do all along.

admittedly, i was freaking out a few months ago, but i was able to pretty much let it go, in favor of just enjoying what we have right now.

but now...i feel vulnerable, i feel a little too needy. is it "codependent"? aren't we all that, to a degree? it's gotten such a bad rap, but that is the way humans are - to a degree. we don't just go through life not wanting and (again, degree) needing others.

thanks for your comments.

coffeedrinker

Laurie and LaTeeDa,

Thank you so much for your perspective. And being two years sober, and bringing up the Be Here Now philosophy (he considers it his Spiritual Awakening, and it's huge - for him) the one therapist said that he is really right on track.

I got a phone call this evening at the end of the day. A "checking in, you seemed emotional at the end of the session" call. I appreciated it. I said I was feeling a small amount of despair, but that I'm ok. I just think we need to move forward, and see if what he wants and needs and what I want and need simply do not match up.

The reason I chose this duo, is because of the addictions background/specialty.

Plus I have history with the female one - she brought me to a large degree to where I am today - laid the groundwork anyway.

Thanks again.
Trying not to engage in "awfulizing" !

Babyblue

Feeling vulnerable is normal if you are trusting someone in a relationship. Not only is it normal, it is quite healthy. I agree, we do need connections on many levels including intimate ones (which is what relationships are).

When I feel myself going to 'that place' of what if's or reading into what he is saying, I stop myself. It has gotten so bad that other people around me now say "Babyblue, you are doing it again, stop it" when I start worrying and wondering outloud.

When I feel myself getting more needy I try to think about what is going on with ME that is causing me to feel like that. 9 times out of 10 it is my trust issue rearing it's head again, triggering neediness, doubt, etc.

coffeedrinker

Well, we had our second session yesterday.

Yes, vulnerable is scary, difficult, and wonderful.

Yes, I know my neediness is all about me and my past experiences.

It was hard.

Hard, hard, hard. Uncomfortable.

I did say what I wanted to, which was that I am simply unsure of how this man really feels about me. What I really meant was, "do you think the sun rises and sets on me? do you think I'm adorable, walk on water, is the prettiest little thing in the room of a hundred people?"

I have seen and heard dozens of affirmations and variations on the notion that we have a really solid thing, and a solid base for a long future.

But...

The buts are so loud, sometimes it's all I can hear.

Standing by his car afterwards, he said, "I think we are gonna really make hay with this". He is encouraged, I am confused.

The female therapist told me at the end, "Christine, you have been doing this a long time. He is an infant. You are knowledgeable, and wise. He talks a good game, but he has miles to go. Do you wanna stick around and wait and see what he grows into?"

I said, "so far, I've answered that question with 'yes' "

It makes me ANXIOUS though, and it is unsettling.

The really weird part, is that today I feel light. I'm wondering, and scratching my head about the depth of his feelings for me ("is it enough???")
but I feel like we are really connecting.

Interesting as hell

LaTeeDa

As I read your post, I keep hearing Deepak Chopra in my head (from "The Seven Laws of Spiritual Success audiobook I have) saying "embrace uncertainty."

You sound like you want a guarantee. In my experience, there are none in relationships. You really only have whatever you have right now. It may get better, it may stay the same, it may get worse. But, if you can embrace that, knowing that no matter what happens, you will be okay, then what an exciting adventure it is.

Relax. Embrace uncertainty.

L

Babyblue

I love reading your posts about your relationship. You are so self aware. I wonder why accepting love (or that someone loves us) is so challenging? For me it is at least.

My therapist is really working on me NOT going to those negative places in my head 'he loves me but it isn't real love...' or 'he doesn't care about me..' Everyone I talk to who knows the sitch says that he does but why don't I accept it? I get that nagging voice a lot.

Again, I attribute it to fear. To know that someone could love me to such a degree petrifies me. With it comes a huge responsibility. So I minimize it or dismiss it. It is a coping thing.

What would be the worst outcome if this man really was someone who you could spend a pretty long time with?

coffeedrinker

Thank you for your comments. I usually hesitate before starting a thread about Relationship, unless it is in a more direct context to addiction issues.

I think I am self aware.
And I don't relate to the statement about someone loving me scaring me.

My fear stems from the nature of, and depth of, his feelings.
He is very pragmatic, and I know that his brain has had more to do with our being together (him choosing me) than his emotions. They are connected, of course.
He is also very honest (although the caveat is that I think he is not as self aware, and his truth may be always be the entire truth) -- honest to the point of sometimes being too blunt.

Last week our discussion focused a lot on the fact that I feel unsure of his attraction for me (there is a wide difference in our physical expressions) and after being asked if I wanted to hear an honest response, explained that yes, of course there is attraction. But...I am 50 years old. Do I look as good as 30-year-olds? Would he have been wildy attracted to my physique if we went back in time a couple of decades? Sure. He did say that he felt I had taken good care of myself in the looks dept. But, he also used the words "good enough".

It felt like a kick in the stomach. And I don't know if that's good enough. For me. But stay I do, and stay I will. So, if it's not good enough that he doesn't find me the most beautiful woman in Minneapolis, and I stay even though it hurts me, am I going to always be angsty and insecure about that?

When I think of the last man I loved, and I remember that lying next to him and drinking in his smell was intoxicating, and I remember finding other men more attractive than my current, then I scold myself for expecting, or even wanting, something different from him. At those times I try and adopt a different attitude about "good enough". What's wrong with that?

It's about my sense of worth as a woman and a lover. My ex-husband thought I was hot, and I knew it, until and even after the day he left.
I wish I had that amount and kind of regard again.

Freedom,
Thank you for the bit about Deepak Chopra. I love him but do not know much of his work. I will put some of his stuff on my list.

Thank you again.

Babyblue

Well the 'good enough' choice of words was a flub on his part but just a poor choice in words and only that.

So I can see where you feel a disconnect between his feelings and attraction. That is probably valid on your part but it has to do with him, not you. His inability to express that part of himself probably comes about no matter who he is involved with.

My son's dad made me feel like a piece of meat. Commenting on my this or that when I was trying to have a serious conversation drove me insane. And I don't even have a great this or that! It was just who he was though. He never made me feel beautiful even though I knew he was very attracted to me.

We all have different wants and needs. But validation does happen first and primarly with yourself. That said though, sounds like you are learning some things about him and how he expresses himself that doesn't feel right to you. When that happens we sometimes turn it inwards, that it is a reflection of us when it really is about them and their limitations.

lightseeker

Being involved in a relationship can bring out all kinds and sorts of vulnerabilities in me. I've realized that I have a part of me that could be referred to as a relationship addict. There is something in me that wants to know that I am madly and overwhelmingly desired. I realize that is my addiction though.....

The counselor identified that you have experience with emotions and feelings and that he has a ways to go to catch up. That's a hard one....because it sounds like sometimes you see it and then sometimes you don't.

I know that my husband had started using when he was 12....didn't stop until he was 47. That was a long time to be in the "deep freeze" emotionally. He's had a long way to go to catch up to normal development. It's great that your man has 2 years of recovery. It sounds like he is really working it and trying to just stay in today. That's not an easy task for any of us.

I'm glad that you are writing about all of this. This is "us" focusing on our recovery and learning how to live our lives as emotionally sober people.

coffeedrinker

here is a bit of an update that might be an eye-opener for some of you out there....

the other night, it was date night, and we were discussing s_x, as in, our most recent encounter and giving and receiving feedback. something was said - in his fashion, rather bluntly - and my sensitivity really reacted to it. at the end of dinner, i said, "I am feeling pretty sad right now, and think I will just go home. But I don't know if that would upset you." He said, "sad? why sad?" I said I was reacting to things that were said, and I didn't want to talk about it just then. He kissed my forehead and said, "Well, just come over anyway." So of course I did, maybe because that's what I truly wanted to hear.

When he asked why I was so restless late in the night (I need to go to sleep early) I said I was consternating. We had a discussion about "it" and he thought I was speculating and making assumptions about his meaning that were not intended. He said I do this quite a lot. After it seemed that the conversation should end, I turned over, feeling dejected, I was crying although quietly, not wanting to be dramatic about all this. After a few moments, he put his computer away, leaned over, kissed my head and put his arms around me. He didn't say anything, neither did I, and we laid like that for awhile.

The next morning, he did the same.

So, here's the revelation of sorts.

He could have chosen to talk - to speak whatever it was he was feeling/thinking/wanting to impart.
He could have written me a note and left it on my car, in an email, got a card.
He could have done something nice for me or given a little gift (he buys his son things when he's trying to help him feel better or apologize for something)

But he did not, and the weight-thingy soared up to the top of the pole and hit the bell.

I have just read The Five Love Languages and discovered that physical touch, as well as words of affirmation, are how I best receive love from others.

I didn't want to start a thread about that, because it doesn't seem to fit in this forum, but it is kind of fascinating. Although it's not the best-written book, I recommend it, to gain insights in ourselves and our family members and partners.

I still felt a little sad, but my need for love and acceptance was met.

GettingBy

The thing I am struggling with right now is the reality of in a relationship - we get from our partner love in the form that they are accustomed to showing it... not in the way that we WANT it or feel is should be shown.

I think you did a wonderful job last night of accepting what was being given, in the form that he chose to provide it.

Even if it's not exactly how we WANT it... it's still love, and caring.

This morning I am realizing that my husband did love me, and showed me the best he could... but as our own flaws/issues grew, we stopped appreciating what the other was giving.