My own relapse
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My own relapse
I got involved in a futile conversation with AH yesterday.
He came to the girls therapy appt and it came up that I have safety concerns about the girls being with him alone. He pretended he was okay with that and "understood" and then flipped out on me when we got home (and the girls were napping).
We went to "talk" outside (and I had my phone on record so I recorded the entire interaction) where I was told the following:
"You wouldn't have concerns if you'd just believe me and didn't go looking to find evidence. You're only upset and worried when you find evidence and if you didn't go looking for it we'd be happy" (yes, this is REALLY what he said!!!!)
He told me:
"Okay I've had a few beers here and there but I haven't been drunk since Jan so there's nothing for you to be concerned about".
I did try a few times, stupidly, to say that my concern is that as he is an alcoholic any amt of alcohol is an unsafe amt. I told him I was not making a judgement call and understood it was the addiction that was the issue and not him but that I could not be a good mom and turn a blind eye.
He informed me that his mother turned a blind eye plenty and he and his siblings had a great childhood and why didn't I care enough about our kids to give them a home with 2 parents. I told him that my recollection of what he'd told me for years was that his childhood wasn't that great and let it go at that.
I interacted with him far more than I should have but I did not get emotional, I did not flip out. He was yelling and cursing and off the wall and I walked away finally.
Today I was at my mom's for Easter and one of my brothers was here as well. He happens to teach with AH. He approached me and was hesitant but finally said he wanted to tell me that there were concerns at work about AH.
He is acting increasingly immature (during the "down" times) and told me that he's finding it increasingly difficult to deal with him bc he is SO different than the man they hired 6 yrs ago. I said I knew how he felt and that it was interesting (and validating in a sad way) to hear that what I see at home is similarly seen at work.
AH thinks he's funny and cool and some of the younger teachers are quite taken with him but the veteran teachers who he used to be friends with and had professional relationships with -- he's pretty much ditched those people.
Is it common that as alcoholism progresses, one's maturity level decreases? He's drinking much much less than he used to but mentally and emotionally he's far more immature than he has ever been and his rationalization and b.s. meter is off the charts.
He told me over and over yesterday that I think in "black and white" and I told him that while that must be frustrating to feel, the fact is that I think in black and white only about those things that ARE black and white. While he thinks that HONESTY is relative and there are exceptions (and he always has one) for when it's okay to lie, I don't see it that way. Same goes with drinking. Either you are drinking or you aren't-- but to him it's all relative. It's sad.
Oh, I also learned yesterday that the stories he'd been feeding me for a month about "insurance" not approving outpatient rehab full time were all lies. He chose to attend only part time and although he told me he wanted me to be a part of the family night component and claimed that the woman who runs the program never got back to him about whether that was okay or not- it turns out that the truth is that he told her he did not want me there and spun a story about how he got arrested that according to him resulted in the woman running the outpatient program telling him it would be best if I weren't a part of family night bc I am too toxic to him. All of this stuff stung. He's been pretending he wants me around, wants my support and constantly tells me how I am not supportive enough, but he has intentionally kept me from being a part of things where I could help him... He also told me (at least he was honest) that he doesn't want me to be a part of family night bc he doesn't want me to hear information that will make him be accountable in any way for anything I might hear. At least he was honest but it still sucked and hurt to hear.
He came to the girls therapy appt and it came up that I have safety concerns about the girls being with him alone. He pretended he was okay with that and "understood" and then flipped out on me when we got home (and the girls were napping).
We went to "talk" outside (and I had my phone on record so I recorded the entire interaction) where I was told the following:
"You wouldn't have concerns if you'd just believe me and didn't go looking to find evidence. You're only upset and worried when you find evidence and if you didn't go looking for it we'd be happy" (yes, this is REALLY what he said!!!!)
He told me:
"Okay I've had a few beers here and there but I haven't been drunk since Jan so there's nothing for you to be concerned about".
I did try a few times, stupidly, to say that my concern is that as he is an alcoholic any amt of alcohol is an unsafe amt. I told him I was not making a judgement call and understood it was the addiction that was the issue and not him but that I could not be a good mom and turn a blind eye.
He informed me that his mother turned a blind eye plenty and he and his siblings had a great childhood and why didn't I care enough about our kids to give them a home with 2 parents. I told him that my recollection of what he'd told me for years was that his childhood wasn't that great and let it go at that.
I interacted with him far more than I should have but I did not get emotional, I did not flip out. He was yelling and cursing and off the wall and I walked away finally.
Today I was at my mom's for Easter and one of my brothers was here as well. He happens to teach with AH. He approached me and was hesitant but finally said he wanted to tell me that there were concerns at work about AH.
He is acting increasingly immature (during the "down" times) and told me that he's finding it increasingly difficult to deal with him bc he is SO different than the man they hired 6 yrs ago. I said I knew how he felt and that it was interesting (and validating in a sad way) to hear that what I see at home is similarly seen at work.
AH thinks he's funny and cool and some of the younger teachers are quite taken with him but the veteran teachers who he used to be friends with and had professional relationships with -- he's pretty much ditched those people.
Is it common that as alcoholism progresses, one's maturity level decreases? He's drinking much much less than he used to but mentally and emotionally he's far more immature than he has ever been and his rationalization and b.s. meter is off the charts.
He told me over and over yesterday that I think in "black and white" and I told him that while that must be frustrating to feel, the fact is that I think in black and white only about those things that ARE black and white. While he thinks that HONESTY is relative and there are exceptions (and he always has one) for when it's okay to lie, I don't see it that way. Same goes with drinking. Either you are drinking or you aren't-- but to him it's all relative. It's sad.
Oh, I also learned yesterday that the stories he'd been feeding me for a month about "insurance" not approving outpatient rehab full time were all lies. He chose to attend only part time and although he told me he wanted me to be a part of the family night component and claimed that the woman who runs the program never got back to him about whether that was okay or not- it turns out that the truth is that he told her he did not want me there and spun a story about how he got arrested that according to him resulted in the woman running the outpatient program telling him it would be best if I weren't a part of family night bc I am too toxic to him. All of this stuff stung. He's been pretending he wants me around, wants my support and constantly tells me how I am not supportive enough, but he has intentionally kept me from being a part of things where I could help him... He also told me (at least he was honest) that he doesn't want me to be a part of family night bc he doesn't want me to hear information that will make him be accountable in any way for anything I might hear. At least he was honest but it still sucked and hurt to hear.
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Is it common that as alcoholism progresses, one's maturity level decreases? He's drinking much much less than he used to but mentally and emotionally he's far more immature than he has ever been and his rationalization and b.s. meter is off the charts.
As for the safety issues with the kids -- someone on another thread here talked about how strange it is that we (some of us, I know I did) will leave our children with a spouse that we know for a fact will be drunk when we get back... whereas we'd be livid and probably calling the cops if we hired a babysitter and came back to find her/him drunk. I ask myself on an almost daily basis, "Why would I accept this from (R)AXH when I would find it completely and utterly unacceptable from any other human in the universe?"
It is great that you're taking it up with the therapist, and I'm sorry your AH can't use the therapy sessions for what they're intended for, but unloaded on you afterwards instead.
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[QUOTE=lillamy;2945868]Don't know if it's common but I'm seeing the same thing. Even in the quality of the insults he hurls at me. Everything's becoming less mature.
Yeah he's getting less mature and nastier and it's really a lot harder to take...
"Why would I accept this from (R)AXH when I would find it completely and utterly unacceptable from any other human in the universe?"
My AH of course sees his circumstances as "terminally unique"-- if it were a stranger having a few beers when they were alone with the kids it'd be awful (even he agrees) but he believes bc he has a greater interest in the girls than a stranger, somehow his drinking with them alone is "safer"? I tend to think logically (except when it comes to this relationship at times) perhaps too logically at times so I get infuriated by the insanity of the logic (or lack thereof) in the arguments he throws at me... If he's aware of how insane he sounds then he's just a cruel a$$ and if he really believes what he says then he's insane. Either way it's not good.
Yeah he's getting less mature and nastier and it's really a lot harder to take...
"Why would I accept this from (R)AXH when I would find it completely and utterly unacceptable from any other human in the universe?"
My AH of course sees his circumstances as "terminally unique"-- if it were a stranger having a few beers when they were alone with the kids it'd be awful (even he agrees) but he believes bc he has a greater interest in the girls than a stranger, somehow his drinking with them alone is "safer"? I tend to think logically (except when it comes to this relationship at times) perhaps too logically at times so I get infuriated by the insanity of the logic (or lack thereof) in the arguments he throws at me... If he's aware of how insane he sounds then he's just a cruel a$$ and if he really believes what he says then he's insane. Either way it's not good.
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"terminally unique"--
or
"terminally ILL" = """ Without a True Recovery """"
This is what You, Me, and Them..."Will Ever Be" without recovery..Terminally Ill
Think of it this way:
2 Sick people laying in a bed of diesase, who's going to die first?
You or him. It's your choice to jump out the bed or just lay there...
Me, well I just jumped out the bed, fluffed his pillow
threw him a kiss and told him to sleep well....
PEACE is now within my soul.....
or
"terminally ILL" = """ Without a True Recovery """"
This is what You, Me, and Them..."Will Ever Be" without recovery..Terminally Ill
Think of it this way:
2 Sick people laying in a bed of diesase, who's going to die first?
You or him. It's your choice to jump out the bed or just lay there...
Me, well I just jumped out the bed, fluffed his pillow
threw him a kiss and told him to sleep well....
PEACE is now within my soul.....
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 1,637
I've been told a similar line... "if you didn't go digging for stuff to be pissed about, you wouldn't be pissed so much. But you go digging because you just don't know how to be happy or content. You spend all sorts of time waiting for the other shoe to drop."
The thing that bothers me about that... Is there is some truth to it. The last part... Worrying about the other shoe dropping. All the other stuff? I don't have to do digging... It's all right there in my face. And as for happy, I'm all sorts of happy... Just not around him.
The one thing I've found most hopeful... I stopped talking to AH. It does me no-good to let him rant and rave and hurt me with his stinging barbs. He's in an ugly and resentful place and anything that comes out towards me has zero compassion in it. Sad, but true. A man I've spent 10 yrs of my life with, and have two children... And he has no love towards me. But, why should he anymore? I've filed papers to initiate a divorce.
So, I keep putting one foot in front of the other and move towards having my own life back.
Get the focus back on you and detach from him.
The thing that bothers me about that... Is there is some truth to it. The last part... Worrying about the other shoe dropping. All the other stuff? I don't have to do digging... It's all right there in my face. And as for happy, I'm all sorts of happy... Just not around him.
The one thing I've found most hopeful... I stopped talking to AH. It does me no-good to let him rant and rave and hurt me with his stinging barbs. He's in an ugly and resentful place and anything that comes out towards me has zero compassion in it. Sad, but true. A man I've spent 10 yrs of my life with, and have two children... And he has no love towards me. But, why should he anymore? I've filed papers to initiate a divorce.
So, I keep putting one foot in front of the other and move towards having my own life back.
Get the focus back on you and detach from him.
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Location: NJ
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you are DIVORCING HIM, right? why waste your energy? I wouldn't trust him as far as I couldpick him up and throw him...he has zero respect for you....
you do not HAVE to talk to him, you do not have to let him in your house, he saw his kids, he went to therapy....just tell him to LEAVE and close the door...WHO CARES what he spouts???
Karma will come, just don't keep letting him set you up...it only serves to get you worked up into a froth..and you want peace....don't you?
you are expending a lot of energy on him that you could use for your own well being.
you do not HAVE to talk to him, you do not have to let him in your house, he saw his kids, he went to therapy....just tell him to LEAVE and close the door...WHO CARES what he spouts???
Karma will come, just don't keep letting him set you up...it only serves to get you worked up into a froth..and you want peace....don't you?
you are expending a lot of energy on him that you could use for your own well being.
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I am worried about the fact that I have no real proof to support why I don't want him being alone with the girls... I have a journal that I haven't kept religiously and yes, he was arrested, but he wasn't drunk at the time and he didn't assault the girls so that's not likely to help.
So, I guess my worry got the better of me on Sat and I got sucked in to talking about my worries with him which was insane and stupid of me...
So, I guess my worry got the better of me on Sat and I got sucked in to talking about my worries with him which was insane and stupid of me...
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy 
I am worried about the fact that I have no real proof to support why I don't want him being alone with the girls... I have a journal that I haven't kept religiously and yes, he was arrested, but he wasn't drunk at the time and he didn't assault the girls so that's not likely to help.
L
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All I could hear(read) in his side of the conversation is "ME. Me, me, me, me, me. ME ME ME. And me. By the way, MEEEEEEEE!"
Self-serving and manipulative doesn't even begin to describe it.
Self-serving and manipulative doesn't even begin to describe it.
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
Didn't you say that the therapist agrees? That's a huge amount of "proof" right there.
L
L
Yes she has said to me in private that I ought to have a journal and she doesn't think he should be alone with the girls (she said that with him there too actually) but she told us the 1st time we saw her that she does NOT get involved in family court unless subpeonaed by the court and in that case she just gives notes on the girls and doesn't offer her opinion. So, it's great that she has the opinions she does that she is sharing with me but she won't be a witness for me.
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy
Yes she has said to me in private that I ought to have a journal and she doesn't think he should be alone with the girls (she said that with him there too actually) but she told us the 1st time we saw her that she does NOT get involved in family court unless subpeonaed by the court and in that case she just gives notes on the girls and doesn't offer her opinion. So, it's great that she has the opinions she does that she is sharing with me but she won't be a witness for me.
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Originally Posted by stella27
your lawyer issues the subpoena that comes from the court, and she will answer whatever your lawyer asks her, when the judge instructs her to do so.
Hmmm, good to know. Because she was pretty to the point about this issue right off the bat (since she works with kids exclusively and lots of families with addiction I imagine she gets put in the middle a LOT).
I appreciate the info Stella...
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I have an AH who seems to be mentally lowering his age over time too. His arguments get less and less rational, more and more self centered and he reminds me of a teenager. Teenagers can't see past themselves, lie to get what they want, and think their behavior is perfectly acceptable. What reasonable adult sneaks alcohol at Christmas in the pantry and then talks about all the other alcoholics in the room like he is in recovery? He must think I am blind or stupid, but hello I know what you are doing even if I don't know exactly when you are doing it!
Don't know if it's common but I'm seeing the same thing. Even in the quality of the insults he hurls at me. Everything's becoming less mature. This statement really hits home!
You are a great mom to put your kids safety first. Hopefully the court system will agree too.
Don't know if it's common but I'm seeing the same thing. Even in the quality of the insults he hurls at me. Everything's becoming less mature. This statement really hits home!
You are a great mom to put your kids safety first. Hopefully the court system will agree too.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,052
...and you are with him because???
Is it possible you are prolonging the inevitable, and damaging yourself and your children in the process? Do you really see him, and the situation, getting better?
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
Is it possible you are prolonging the inevitable, and damaging yourself and your children in the process? Do you really see him, and the situation, getting better?
Take what you want and leave the rest.
Cyranoak
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This is true. I've heard this COUNTLESS times.
My exabf was stuck at age 14 for sure. One of the last times I got mad at him for being drunk. I wasn't around him..he was texting me. And he kept saying "D-uh".
For ex., I was talking about a photo shoot I did and he writes "I totally need to see the photos, D-UH."
"We're not supposed to be talking now, D-UH."
I was like huh? Are you hanging out with a teenage girl or something?
He admitted the next day he was out partying with his friends. But of course I was being unreasonable, because it's not like he was being an ANGRY or violent drunk, like he gets sometimes.
*roling eyes*
My exabf was stuck at age 14 for sure. One of the last times I got mad at him for being drunk. I wasn't around him..he was texting me. And he kept saying "D-uh".
For ex., I was talking about a photo shoot I did and he writes "I totally need to see the photos, D-UH."
"We're not supposed to be talking now, D-UH."
I was like huh? Are you hanging out with a teenage girl or something?
He admitted the next day he was out partying with his friends. But of course I was being unreasonable, because it's not like he was being an ANGRY or violent drunk, like he gets sometimes.
*roling eyes*
Originally Posted by Carol Star
I think they are stuck in the age they started using until they sober up and then start to mature.
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In other words, he wants you to just stay out of his business so he can go about his merry way destroying himself and your family. Wonderful way to conduct a relationship!!
Originally Posted by GettingBy
I've been told a similar line... "if you didn't go digging for stuff to be pissed about, you wouldn't be pissed so much. But you go digging because you just don't know how to be happy or content. You spend all sorts of time waiting for the other shoe to drop."
The thing that bothers me about that... Is there is some truth to it. The last part... Worrying about the other shoe dropping. All the other stuff? I don't have to do digging... It's all right there in my face. And as for happy, I'm all sorts of happy... Just not around him.
The one thing I've found most hopeful... I stopped talking to AH. It does me no-good to let him rant and rave and hurt me with his stinging barbs. He's in an ugly and resentful place and anything that comes out towards me has zero compassion in it. Sad, but true. A man I've spent 10 yrs of my life with, and have two children... And he has no love towards me. But, why should he anymore? I've filed papers to initiate a divorce.
So, I keep putting one foot in front of the other and move towards having my own life back.
Get the focus back on you and detach from him.
The thing that bothers me about that... Is there is some truth to it. The last part... Worrying about the other shoe dropping. All the other stuff? I don't have to do digging... It's all right there in my face. And as for happy, I'm all sorts of happy... Just not around him.
The one thing I've found most hopeful... I stopped talking to AH. It does me no-good to let him rant and rave and hurt me with his stinging barbs. He's in an ugly and resentful place and anything that comes out towards me has zero compassion in it. Sad, but true. A man I've spent 10 yrs of my life with, and have two children... And he has no love towards me. But, why should he anymore? I've filed papers to initiate a divorce.
So, I keep putting one foot in front of the other and move towards having my own life back.
Get the focus back on you and detach from him.
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