Weigh in on this, I am at an impasse.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Weigh in on this, I am at an impasse.
Some of you know my long story...
I cant think straight.
I need some feedback. This is a venting, and organizing of my thoughts.
My RAH sober now going on 7 months. He lives seperate from us (son and me)
The good:
-He is working, never late (6am), has been killing it with sales, and has been being groomed to become a partner in the company in a new department, while still doing the crew work and sales.
Its amazing that he is the same person who could not/would not get out of bed for years...lazy, drunk, hungover.
-He is not lying. He tells me if he occassionally goes out to bars to see friends play music, that he monitors his own comfort level, and that it is his side of the road, but he knows it makes me uncomfortable, and keeps that in mind without making choices FOR me. He feels it is benign, and he knows it is a work in progress, and has his eyes open to looking at whether he is lying /tricking himself.
-He is not running to other women/woman to distract him, to ease his discomfort, to fill his empty addiction spaces, to stick it to me..This is brand new. He never went this long without filling the empty space with women. He actually seems, when sober to be someone who finds casual sex an unappetizing concept, if not a real impossibility for him.
-He is planning to buy me a car, with me contributing what I can, put it in my name. I need it. We have been driving junkers for years now, son and I...And I did what I had to do, but a real, reliable (still used) vehicle would be such a stress lift. He knows I fear him "lording it over me" and claims that is not his frame of mind on it.
-He has made his little apartment a nice, warm place. It took a while, but he is focused on amassing things that are his, his energy, his things. It is helping him learn respect for other peoples belongings, other peoples space, and he talks about that, how disrepsectful he has been in his life.And now, he is learning what it took for the people he has taken for granted to earn what they have.
-He wants to buy a house, renovate it (he knows how), and set us up, in a healthy, family way. This is his plan. He says he knows I am undecided about our relationship, and he knows he is learning, and he knows I am working on my recovery, and he is buying a house regardless.
The bad:
-RAH still has problems being around our son. He feels panicky and cant handle it. I have laid out some boundaries to protect son regarding this. There is very limited contact.
- He is forthcoming, and respectful about the above fact. He agrees and respects the boundaries I have set about sons emotional well being right now. HE says he can only secure so much health at once. He says he is working on material living right now, and he is going to address the emotional mental issues as he feels more stable to do so. He says this often. There is no denial about it, but...I am still parenting alone, day to day.
-He does not attend as many meetings as I would like, He goes very little. He says it is his work, and not my business. He says he may not be that AA guy, who counts on it exclusively. He says he has other ways of helping his mind, and he takes what works and leaves the rest.
I have my issues. I am having trouble sticking with what is real, and keep backsliding into what was/what I imagine MIGHT happen/ what is REALLY going on...
My trust is super touchy (no kidding, right?), and I have some trouble being in the now.
First thing:
-Is RAH truly having trouble with panic regarding our son? Or is he just orchestrating yet another big manipulation in which he is able to avoid being a grown up, and shirking parental responsibility?
-Is RAH just playing out a long term manipulation to get me back, only with him having the financial upper hand, and then he will resume his abusive, unchecked behavior?
I realize my fears are in the drivers seat, and I cannot remember from day to day what he has said, which is that he will address the issues with our son. That he wants to address it.
But, as I am at home alone with son, and he calls, after son is asleep, I get so angry that I am still doing it alone. He will point out all the things he is changing, and that it doesnt all happen overnight. He can only do so much at one time. He will remind me that I SET THE BOUNDARIES< AND HE AGREES BECAUSE IT IS BEST FOR SON RIGHT NOW...and that my being angry is out of place, but that he understands.
Is this an act? I am so trust damaged.
He will remind me of where he was this time last year, and say, "now, does it really look like I am on a manipulation/ shirking responsibility trajectory? All I can do is keep moving forward, with or without you. I want to live life and get healthier and be there for son, no matter what you do, and thats what I am doing."
he is doing his best.
He wants to start to date each other.
Like, dates. As in, he picks me up when our son is at a sleepover.
We would go to dinner, talk. ...
Honestly, we do have things to talk about. He is learning, and growing, and being an adult for the first time, really EVER. We have good converstaions these days, and when we hit snags, we can ease down from attack/react mode pretty well.
A testament to both of our recovery work.
But, I am slow to give him accolades, I AM always looking for the NEXT thing he is still not up to par on. I feel like a cold b*tch. sometimes.
Is this harsh judgement of myself? I should be conservative, right?
Am I just addicted to being in the power position, the position where I can hold things over his head?
I feel myself leaning toward trusting him.
And I get so FREAKING SCARED>
This is the first time in 7 years or so, since before our son, when I really KNOW he is not seeing another woman secretly, or that he is not tricking me or lying. He is pretty much transparent.
It is so foreign, and I feel cared for. He asks about me, how I feel. If I am OK with certain things he is planning, or doing.
And the consistency is freaking me out, too. LOL.
He is not the picture of health, or reliability, but it is such a contrast to the twisted past, that I am kind of left speechless, or just maybe I fear that my plugs for healthy interaction dont work anymore.
My Stuff: Am I worthy of health and love? This is the real tape that plays, my fears of my unworthiness.
I feel afraid.
And its not immediate. There is nothing pressing, and I dont have to go on a date with him if I am not ready.
I am just scared. Its uncharted territory, and I am so ready to condemn him, I am looking at his weaknesses with a magnifying glass CONSTANTLY...
It feels weird to be cared for, thought of, considered, even in this small way.
My mom says, "Well, he has been working hard for 7 months. Thats long."
My best friend says, "Its only been 7 months."
This recovery thing is a heck of a thing to navigate.
For me and mine, and for me and his.
I am so self focused I dont even really think about how hard it might be for him, and I stand there, tough, unmoved saying,
" Well, maybe once you go to a doctor and deal with this mental problem, and address why your 6 year old child is difficult for you to be around..."
And he is waking up at 6 am, working hard labor, then showering, going to sales calls, and I am on the other end of the phone asking for more.
I guess I cant see staright, but I know that it helps to just vent it out here. Thanks for reading.
I cant think straight.
I need some feedback. This is a venting, and organizing of my thoughts.
My RAH sober now going on 7 months. He lives seperate from us (son and me)
The good:
-He is working, never late (6am), has been killing it with sales, and has been being groomed to become a partner in the company in a new department, while still doing the crew work and sales.
Its amazing that he is the same person who could not/would not get out of bed for years...lazy, drunk, hungover.
-He is not lying. He tells me if he occassionally goes out to bars to see friends play music, that he monitors his own comfort level, and that it is his side of the road, but he knows it makes me uncomfortable, and keeps that in mind without making choices FOR me. He feels it is benign, and he knows it is a work in progress, and has his eyes open to looking at whether he is lying /tricking himself.
-He is not running to other women/woman to distract him, to ease his discomfort, to fill his empty addiction spaces, to stick it to me..This is brand new. He never went this long without filling the empty space with women. He actually seems, when sober to be someone who finds casual sex an unappetizing concept, if not a real impossibility for him.
-He is planning to buy me a car, with me contributing what I can, put it in my name. I need it. We have been driving junkers for years now, son and I...And I did what I had to do, but a real, reliable (still used) vehicle would be such a stress lift. He knows I fear him "lording it over me" and claims that is not his frame of mind on it.
-He has made his little apartment a nice, warm place. It took a while, but he is focused on amassing things that are his, his energy, his things. It is helping him learn respect for other peoples belongings, other peoples space, and he talks about that, how disrepsectful he has been in his life.And now, he is learning what it took for the people he has taken for granted to earn what they have.
-He wants to buy a house, renovate it (he knows how), and set us up, in a healthy, family way. This is his plan. He says he knows I am undecided about our relationship, and he knows he is learning, and he knows I am working on my recovery, and he is buying a house regardless.
The bad:
-RAH still has problems being around our son. He feels panicky and cant handle it. I have laid out some boundaries to protect son regarding this. There is very limited contact.
- He is forthcoming, and respectful about the above fact. He agrees and respects the boundaries I have set about sons emotional well being right now. HE says he can only secure so much health at once. He says he is working on material living right now, and he is going to address the emotional mental issues as he feels more stable to do so. He says this often. There is no denial about it, but...I am still parenting alone, day to day.
-He does not attend as many meetings as I would like, He goes very little. He says it is his work, and not my business. He says he may not be that AA guy, who counts on it exclusively. He says he has other ways of helping his mind, and he takes what works and leaves the rest.
I have my issues. I am having trouble sticking with what is real, and keep backsliding into what was/what I imagine MIGHT happen/ what is REALLY going on...
My trust is super touchy (no kidding, right?), and I have some trouble being in the now.
First thing:
-Is RAH truly having trouble with panic regarding our son? Or is he just orchestrating yet another big manipulation in which he is able to avoid being a grown up, and shirking parental responsibility?
-Is RAH just playing out a long term manipulation to get me back, only with him having the financial upper hand, and then he will resume his abusive, unchecked behavior?
I realize my fears are in the drivers seat, and I cannot remember from day to day what he has said, which is that he will address the issues with our son. That he wants to address it.
But, as I am at home alone with son, and he calls, after son is asleep, I get so angry that I am still doing it alone. He will point out all the things he is changing, and that it doesnt all happen overnight. He can only do so much at one time. He will remind me that I SET THE BOUNDARIES< AND HE AGREES BECAUSE IT IS BEST FOR SON RIGHT NOW...and that my being angry is out of place, but that he understands.
Is this an act? I am so trust damaged.
He will remind me of where he was this time last year, and say, "now, does it really look like I am on a manipulation/ shirking responsibility trajectory? All I can do is keep moving forward, with or without you. I want to live life and get healthier and be there for son, no matter what you do, and thats what I am doing."
he is doing his best.
He wants to start to date each other.
Like, dates. As in, he picks me up when our son is at a sleepover.
We would go to dinner, talk. ...
Honestly, we do have things to talk about. He is learning, and growing, and being an adult for the first time, really EVER. We have good converstaions these days, and when we hit snags, we can ease down from attack/react mode pretty well.
A testament to both of our recovery work.
But, I am slow to give him accolades, I AM always looking for the NEXT thing he is still not up to par on. I feel like a cold b*tch. sometimes.
Is this harsh judgement of myself? I should be conservative, right?
Am I just addicted to being in the power position, the position where I can hold things over his head?
I feel myself leaning toward trusting him.
And I get so FREAKING SCARED>
This is the first time in 7 years or so, since before our son, when I really KNOW he is not seeing another woman secretly, or that he is not tricking me or lying. He is pretty much transparent.
It is so foreign, and I feel cared for. He asks about me, how I feel. If I am OK with certain things he is planning, or doing.
And the consistency is freaking me out, too. LOL.
He is not the picture of health, or reliability, but it is such a contrast to the twisted past, that I am kind of left speechless, or just maybe I fear that my plugs for healthy interaction dont work anymore.
My Stuff: Am I worthy of health and love? This is the real tape that plays, my fears of my unworthiness.
I feel afraid.
And its not immediate. There is nothing pressing, and I dont have to go on a date with him if I am not ready.
I am just scared. Its uncharted territory, and I am so ready to condemn him, I am looking at his weaknesses with a magnifying glass CONSTANTLY...
It feels weird to be cared for, thought of, considered, even in this small way.
My mom says, "Well, he has been working hard for 7 months. Thats long."
My best friend says, "Its only been 7 months."
This recovery thing is a heck of a thing to navigate.
For me and mine, and for me and his.
I am so self focused I dont even really think about how hard it might be for him, and I stand there, tough, unmoved saying,
" Well, maybe once you go to a doctor and deal with this mental problem, and address why your 6 year old child is difficult for you to be around..."
And he is waking up at 6 am, working hard labor, then showering, going to sales calls, and I am on the other end of the phone asking for more.
I guess I cant see staright, but I know that it helps to just vent it out here. Thanks for reading.
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,910
Lots of good thinking going on there. I tend to agree with your friend...it's only been 7 months. The main thing that concerns me is his inability to spend time with his son. Is he getting help for that? That would be a HUGE factor in whether or not to even consider a change in the situation. Until I saw some long-term (at least a year) improvement in that area, I wouldn't be willing to make any drastic changes. There is no rush. You are living separately now and he appears to making some progress in other areas, as are you. Give it more time. More will be revealed.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 338
Seven years of living with an alcoholic, a cheating alcoholic, certainly cannot be undone in 7 months. It is unchartered waters and I think what you are experiencing is fear of the unknown. He is different and you no longer know what to expect. I don't remember if you go to Al Anon meetings. These would help the tapes in your head about you own worth and what you deserve. Focus on you!
He seems to be working on himself to an extent. Working on material things first- is this an AA concept? I guess it is important if he feels his drinking may have deprived you and your son from some of the basics that he feels he should be providing but it seems a "shallow" way of making amends.
My initial reaction is that he is concentrating too much on proving to you that he can take care of you financially and not so much on himself. IMHO
Being a single parent is difficult. And you probably did not sign up to be one. But he is being honest about his feelings around his son. Sad but honest. At least you know your son is not being put in any danger.
Perhaps you need to just think of what you need for now. You still seem to have a great deal of energy invested in his recovery. He does not attend as many meetings as I would like.
Let him continue working on his recovery. Let him experience "family life" with time with both you and your son. Then when you are ready perhaps a date.
Only with time will you see if his recovery progresses to the point that he starts dealing with his emotional issues.
Only with time will you decide what you are willing to accept for you and your son.
He seems to be working on himself to an extent. Working on material things first- is this an AA concept? I guess it is important if he feels his drinking may have deprived you and your son from some of the basics that he feels he should be providing but it seems a "shallow" way of making amends.
My initial reaction is that he is concentrating too much on proving to you that he can take care of you financially and not so much on himself. IMHO
Being a single parent is difficult. And you probably did not sign up to be one. But he is being honest about his feelings around his son. Sad but honest. At least you know your son is not being put in any danger.
Perhaps you need to just think of what you need for now. You still seem to have a great deal of energy invested in his recovery. He does not attend as many meetings as I would like.
Let him continue working on his recovery. Let him experience "family life" with time with both you and your son. Then when you are ready perhaps a date.
Only with time will you see if his recovery progresses to the point that he starts dealing with his emotional issues.
Only with time will you decide what you are willing to accept for you and your son.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
The shallowness of financial amends does concern me.
I shouldered all of that while he was drunk. For 5 1/2 years. And I mean ALL of it.
I do feel like he owes me that...but it seems like its all he can do right now, and his eyes are not closed to the other, more emotionally/mental healing work.
I know I am too invested in him going to meetings. I have seen them really move him, and I know that regular attendance would really move things along for him.
I do go to alanon, have a sponsor, etc. She is very busy right now...She is a good sponsor, and she feels his work is solid work, and as you said, that only time will tell.
Thanks
I shouldered all of that while he was drunk. For 5 1/2 years. And I mean ALL of it.
I do feel like he owes me that...but it seems like its all he can do right now, and his eyes are not closed to the other, more emotionally/mental healing work.
I know I am too invested in him going to meetings. I have seen them really move him, and I know that regular attendance would really move things along for him.
I do go to alanon, have a sponsor, etc. She is very busy right now...She is a good sponsor, and she feels his work is solid work, and as you said, that only time will tell.
Thanks
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
It helps me to think of my recovery in terms of a life long commitment.
It took to me almost a full 39 years of life to hit my bottom. That bottom was a combination of my upbringing, my codependency, my bad relationships, my own personal demons. I'm still working on all of it. My XABF was only a fraction of my dysfunction but it did highlight my needs for control and having my expectations met by others.
My sincere hope is that it doesn't take me another 39 years to reach the top of that hole and make a life for myself that fulfills me and brings me up, not down.
You clearly acknowledge that your RAH has more going on than just the drinking. His anxiety over being a parent to your child, makes that clear. So he hits his bottom and starts climbing out and you want that journey to go on your time schedule.
A lot of expectations.
A lot of resentments.
A lot of anger over what you've been through.
Still trying to make the relationship, and the relationship he has with your son, fit your hopes.
It is a hard thing, indeed, letting go. Letting go of the unknown. Letting go of the past we can't change. Letting go of expectations of others. Letting go and being free in the here and now.
I think an update from JDS gave a wonderful view of how recovery can help this and how life starts to take on a new shape when the A seeks recovery so I will link it here and share it with you. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-day-time.html
Hugs,
Alice
It took to me almost a full 39 years of life to hit my bottom. That bottom was a combination of my upbringing, my codependency, my bad relationships, my own personal demons. I'm still working on all of it. My XABF was only a fraction of my dysfunction but it did highlight my needs for control and having my expectations met by others.
My sincere hope is that it doesn't take me another 39 years to reach the top of that hole and make a life for myself that fulfills me and brings me up, not down.
You clearly acknowledge that your RAH has more going on than just the drinking. His anxiety over being a parent to your child, makes that clear. So he hits his bottom and starts climbing out and you want that journey to go on your time schedule.
A lot of expectations.
A lot of resentments.
A lot of anger over what you've been through.
Still trying to make the relationship, and the relationship he has with your son, fit your hopes.
It is a hard thing, indeed, letting go. Letting go of the unknown. Letting go of the past we can't change. Letting go of expectations of others. Letting go and being free in the here and now.
I think an update from JDS gave a wonderful view of how recovery can help this and how life starts to take on a new shape when the A seeks recovery so I will link it here and share it with you. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-day-time.html
Hugs,
Alice
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Alice, and JDS,
i reread that post from Jds.
This is what I felt that I had done.
I did do a large CHUNK of detaching, and Im not finished, of course, but that is what I feel has allowed me to loosen the noose on him, and he sought his own path...
Its the inching toward change that IS scaring me.
Am I going to be able to maintain my sense of self?
Am I going to be able to continue detaching if he becomes even more clear and healthy?
My stuff starts poking through.
I feel wobbly on my new legs, but, I know that this progress for both of us is due to the new tools, and a large part due to letting go.
And sometimes, I cant see if I am being hornswoggled. And I am so realizing its not HIM that I am worried that I dont trust---
Its ME, and my ability to be true to myself, to put me first, to keep moving forward regardless of all those questions above.
I am afraid I am going to fall back into the quicksand, and now painfully aware that I AM THE ONE TO BLAME IF I DO.
Its mine.
Im am just another work in progres, LOL.
Thanks for the reminders!
i reread that post from Jds.
This is what I felt that I had done.
I did do a large CHUNK of detaching, and Im not finished, of course, but that is what I feel has allowed me to loosen the noose on him, and he sought his own path...
Its the inching toward change that IS scaring me.
Am I going to be able to maintain my sense of self?
Am I going to be able to continue detaching if he becomes even more clear and healthy?
My stuff starts poking through.
I feel wobbly on my new legs, but, I know that this progress for both of us is due to the new tools, and a large part due to letting go.
And sometimes, I cant see if I am being hornswoggled. And I am so realizing its not HIM that I am worried that I dont trust---
Its ME, and my ability to be true to myself, to put me first, to keep moving forward regardless of all those questions above.
I am afraid I am going to fall back into the quicksand, and now painfully aware that I AM THE ONE TO BLAME IF I DO.
Its mine.
Im am just another work in progres, LOL.
Thanks for the reminders!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
I am just another work in progres, LOL.
Yes you are and it's wonderful progress! We all get bouncing off the walls with 'what ifs' and our wobbly legs strain under us. It's all part of the journey.
I like to think of those times as just a check on the cracks in my new foundation. Lets me know where I need to spend time with the old recovery duct tape.
What's so great about SR is,we can hold each other up when those legs start to go and the tape wears thin. Am I right??
I'm very proud of you, my friend!!
Alice
Yes you are and it's wonderful progress! We all get bouncing off the walls with 'what ifs' and our wobbly legs strain under us. It's all part of the journey.
I like to think of those times as just a check on the cracks in my new foundation. Lets me know where I need to spend time with the old recovery duct tape.
What's so great about SR is,we can hold each other up when those legs start to go and the tape wears thin. Am I right??
I'm very proud of you, my friend!!
Alice
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Yes, Anvil,
He was the same guy who just threw a little jab out about how our son looks like my gay friend, who he was always jealous of.
BUt, his feelings and demeanor toward our son in general are really warm, and when he can manage to be there for him, he is there, and he loves him. That is clear.
The whole not being able to be around him due to PTSD is feasible in my mind, and if he was an otherwise historically honest and easygoing guy, I would believe his assessment without question.
RAH was severely abused by his mom and maybe by a couple of truly mentally disabled uncles who both died suicidally when he was a teen.
When we have ventured into talking about the issues he experiences when with our son, he starts off willing to look at it, but if I probe into the age he was whenever, the uncles, the possibility of what kinds of abuse took place, he becomes very agitated. He has plainly stated that this issue is the CORE issue behind why he was blacking his mind out for so many years, and that it is work he has strong resistance to doing.
But he has been manipulative and difficult in the past. And I just dont know if I can believe him, because a part of me feels like he is capable of just playing his way around being a good father, a parent who is present, and accountable and emotionally attached on a REGULAR basis.
Does it feel weird that I have feelings for him and he for me, and that we can spend time together and heal, and that son is pretty much excluded from that due to RAHs erratic potential behavior? H*ll yes!
I am torn, and it IS messing with my head.
I even wont answer the phone, or will take calls in a different room if I speak to him while son is there, because I dont think it is fair that I have a relationship with his daddy, when he kind of doesnt.
But, he is not just a guy I met and like, he IS sons father. ...so, its difficult for me to look at it the way you put it.
But, we ARE a package deal, and RAH is saying, obviously that this house plan, etc, is all about the three of us....I just dont know what to make of it, and I am not sure if putting a timeframe/limit on it is my work, or his side of the street..
Great question, though, Anvil. Thanks
He was the same guy who just threw a little jab out about how our son looks like my gay friend, who he was always jealous of.
BUt, his feelings and demeanor toward our son in general are really warm, and when he can manage to be there for him, he is there, and he loves him. That is clear.
The whole not being able to be around him due to PTSD is feasible in my mind, and if he was an otherwise historically honest and easygoing guy, I would believe his assessment without question.
RAH was severely abused by his mom and maybe by a couple of truly mentally disabled uncles who both died suicidally when he was a teen.
When we have ventured into talking about the issues he experiences when with our son, he starts off willing to look at it, but if I probe into the age he was whenever, the uncles, the possibility of what kinds of abuse took place, he becomes very agitated. He has plainly stated that this issue is the CORE issue behind why he was blacking his mind out for so many years, and that it is work he has strong resistance to doing.
But he has been manipulative and difficult in the past. And I just dont know if I can believe him, because a part of me feels like he is capable of just playing his way around being a good father, a parent who is present, and accountable and emotionally attached on a REGULAR basis.
Does it feel weird that I have feelings for him and he for me, and that we can spend time together and heal, and that son is pretty much excluded from that due to RAHs erratic potential behavior? H*ll yes!
I am torn, and it IS messing with my head.
I even wont answer the phone, or will take calls in a different room if I speak to him while son is there, because I dont think it is fair that I have a relationship with his daddy, when he kind of doesnt.
But, he is not just a guy I met and like, he IS sons father. ...so, its difficult for me to look at it the way you put it.
But, we ARE a package deal, and RAH is saying, obviously that this house plan, etc, is all about the three of us....I just dont know what to make of it, and I am not sure if putting a timeframe/limit on it is my work, or his side of the street..
Great question, though, Anvil. Thanks
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
He says he is working on material living right now, and he is going to address the emotional mental issues as he feels more stable to do so.
Granted one needs to make a living, but emotional stability was an issue to be worked on from day 1 for me.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
.....it takes a good 2 years of solid sobriety for people to really to start to act and behave like non-using people........for the demons to lose steam and not be constantly nipping at our heels. to get enough days under our belt without the old habits, for the new habits to really take root.
I agree with Suki that there's enough good here to sit back and see what happens. (I'd back away from the car thing, though.) And when it comes to your son -- I know how infuriating and exhausting it is to be The Only Responsible Parent... but I would trust your RAH to know his limits right now, and not push him on that issue. I think that if my (R)AXH had known his limits and focused more on his recovery and less on trying to be a parent, things might have turned out differently for him.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Llilamy,
I am really grateful, no matter why he is unable to deal with parenting, that he is honest about it.
I spent several months there, trying to jam a square peg into a round hole, and finally not only detached from needing him to be a father present, everyday, meow, meow... But also made boundaries, and he agreed to them and did not push.
Not that he did not try to be w son a few times, and mess up... But at least he didn't do what he used to;
Which was to justify, deny and blame away his shortcoming in that arena, and blast on trying to do what he was unavailable for.
It was more like, " yes, I am not up to par on this, yet..."
I am grateful for his honesty and respect of the boundaries.
We had always had goodnight calls from RAH. I started to realize this was disruptive more than helpful for son.
RAH loved those "check in " calls-- maybe they made him feel like he was doing ok when he wasn't...as a father...
But he did not fight my assertion that it was too confusing. And son is calmer and clearer now, w more limited interaction.
Trusting his limits.... As I have had to learn to REALLY trust and respect mine.
Yes.
But I just wonder... Hmmm. Ya know. They can be so tricky.
As far as the car goes, yes. It is a gamble, but what we have is on it's last legs, and this is what he can offer. If it's in my name, what can be done? I mean to undermine me?
I decided first thing, if I do take the car, I would keep clear record of it and apply it to the past years of no support. I will make that clear.
Thank u everyone.
I am really grateful, no matter why he is unable to deal with parenting, that he is honest about it.
I spent several months there, trying to jam a square peg into a round hole, and finally not only detached from needing him to be a father present, everyday, meow, meow... But also made boundaries, and he agreed to them and did not push.
Not that he did not try to be w son a few times, and mess up... But at least he didn't do what he used to;
Which was to justify, deny and blame away his shortcoming in that arena, and blast on trying to do what he was unavailable for.
It was more like, " yes, I am not up to par on this, yet..."
I am grateful for his honesty and respect of the boundaries.
We had always had goodnight calls from RAH. I started to realize this was disruptive more than helpful for son.
RAH loved those "check in " calls-- maybe they made him feel like he was doing ok when he wasn't...as a father...
But he did not fight my assertion that it was too confusing. And son is calmer and clearer now, w more limited interaction.
Trusting his limits.... As I have had to learn to REALLY trust and respect mine.
Yes.
But I just wonder... Hmmm. Ya know. They can be so tricky.
As far as the car goes, yes. It is a gamble, but what we have is on it's last legs, and this is what he can offer. If it's in my name, what can be done? I mean to undermine me?
I decided first thing, if I do take the car, I would keep clear record of it and apply it to the past years of no support. I will make that clear.
Thank u everyone.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,175
Freedom,
It is a red flag for me, too.
And it is that agreement thing that addicts think that is built in to relationships, where they assume and expect you to take part in their denial.
I am not doing that, but, I guess, I am watching my self for my own work.
I point out to him the deficit in relationship to his child, and the deficit in his view of what is a priority, and it does burst his precious bubble, and he gets miffed.
BUt, its not like it was. He doesnt want to emotionally anhililate(sp) me over it anymore.
He takes it in, and he hears it three days later, or whatever.
and he ADDRESSES it. That is new. MAn, is that new.
I see the red flag, and what i wanted from you guys was that acknowledgement. Thanks for that.
It is/should be a more integrated pursuit, no?
It is a red flag for me, too.
And it is that agreement thing that addicts think that is built in to relationships, where they assume and expect you to take part in their denial.
I am not doing that, but, I guess, I am watching my self for my own work.
I point out to him the deficit in relationship to his child, and the deficit in his view of what is a priority, and it does burst his precious bubble, and he gets miffed.
BUt, its not like it was. He doesnt want to emotionally anhililate(sp) me over it anymore.
He takes it in, and he hears it three days later, or whatever.
and he ADDRESSES it. That is new. MAn, is that new.
I see the red flag, and what i wanted from you guys was that acknowledgement. Thanks for that.
It is/should be a more integrated pursuit, no?
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 132
Buffalo66,
Wow, so much work you have already done, and so much ahead of you!
No wonder you needed some feedback!
From my perspective. You seem to be asking yourself all the right questions, and balancing that fine line between keeping your eyes open without obsessing.
In my opinion, perhaps some of what's making you so crazy is that as codies, we don't just need a game plan, we need proof in advance that it will succeed! That's why the "what ifs" drive us so crazy!
I also think it must be frustrating that while you are both working your own recovery programs, all tha focus and the "at-a-boys!" are probably going to your H and your just expected to do your recovery.
Any way, AT-A-GIRL! I think you are doing fantastic! Perhaps if you have any time left in your life, maybe you could add a yoga class or a meditation group to your list of recovery meetings. Doing something for you that has nothing to do with anything else might be just what you need to quiet the "playback" in your mind.
BIG HUGS!
Wow, so much work you have already done, and so much ahead of you!
No wonder you needed some feedback!
From my perspective. You seem to be asking yourself all the right questions, and balancing that fine line between keeping your eyes open without obsessing.
In my opinion, perhaps some of what's making you so crazy is that as codies, we don't just need a game plan, we need proof in advance that it will succeed! That's why the "what ifs" drive us so crazy!
I also think it must be frustrating that while you are both working your own recovery programs, all tha focus and the "at-a-boys!" are probably going to your H and your just expected to do your recovery.
Any way, AT-A-GIRL! I think you are doing fantastic! Perhaps if you have any time left in your life, maybe you could add a yoga class or a meditation group to your list of recovery meetings. Doing something for you that has nothing to do with anything else might be just what you need to quiet the "playback" in your mind.
BIG HUGS!
I AM CANADIAN
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 2,578
posted by anvilheadit takes a good 2 years of solid sobriety for people to really to start to act and behave like a NON using people
I agree!
IMO, first things first...YOU, keep up the AL ANON meetings and doing what you need to do...please let go and let god...and keep the boundaries up...its new, and in the beginning stages of recovery...
u are doing great
I agree!
IMO, first things first...YOU, keep up the AL ANON meetings and doing what you need to do...please let go and let god...and keep the boundaries up...its new, and in the beginning stages of recovery...
u are doing great
same planet...different world
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Butte, America
Posts: 10,946
hmmm.
The car sounds like a four wheeled fish hook to me.
I mean,
if he hands you the keys AND the title
then go for it.
If not - then thank but no thanks.
Seven months don't undo seven years.
The man I've got in my head
reading your posts all this time
is manipulative
and patient.
PATIENT.
I've got something running in my head
and it's way abstract
so I hope this can come across...
It sounds more to me like
the 'old' voice of *what I usually call good*
in a relationship
is being manipulated into arguing
with the 'new' voice of
*what I am worth*
in a relationship.
You might have to play around with the wording in that
but I think it's close to what I'm feeling.
Since I'm on the outside
of course I think I can see it all, you know.
But one thing we share
is a partner ruining an art endeavor.
And he did successfully diminish
the joy you felt at that
by threatening to show up high
and sabotage the whole thing with the public.
That guy ... hasn't gone anyplace
but underground.
My sponsor ... who I LOVE
started out as my AA sponsor
and is now little miss Alanon
which I love as well
she always says
"when did I agree to settle?"
Meaning
when did what she was* truly worth*
become over ridden what she figured
was the *best she could do*?
I love that.
The car sounds like a four wheeled fish hook to me.
I mean,
if he hands you the keys AND the title
then go for it.
If not - then thank but no thanks.
Seven months don't undo seven years.
The man I've got in my head
reading your posts all this time
is manipulative
and patient.
PATIENT.
I've got something running in my head
and it's way abstract
so I hope this can come across...
It sounds more to me like
the 'old' voice of *what I usually call good*
in a relationship
is being manipulated into arguing
with the 'new' voice of
*what I am worth*
in a relationship.
You might have to play around with the wording in that
but I think it's close to what I'm feeling.
Since I'm on the outside
of course I think I can see it all, you know.
But one thing we share
is a partner ruining an art endeavor.
And he did successfully diminish
the joy you felt at that
by threatening to show up high
and sabotage the whole thing with the public.
That guy ... hasn't gone anyplace
but underground.
My sponsor ... who I LOVE
started out as my AA sponsor
and is now little miss Alanon
which I love as well
she always says
"when did I agree to settle?"
Meaning
when did what she was* truly worth*
become over ridden what she figured
was the *best she could do*?
I love that.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
But I just wonder... Hmmm. Ya know. They can be so tricky.
As far as the car goes, yes. It is a gamble, but what we have is on it's last legs, and this is what he can offer. If it's in my name, what can be done? I mean to undermine me?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
I was thinking yesterday and this discussion was part of it
I think it is very codie of me to have difficulty accepting gifts. I always feel indebted to the person or feel I owe them a gift in return.
Over the past few weeks I have been going above and beyond for someone who needed help. I could have blown them off easily because I went through the same issue for weeks prior to theirs developing and received no help or even offers of assistance only judgment that I wasn't resolving the problem more efficiently.
So here I am making the adult decision that they didn't really know what I was up against and now they would get to see the true struggle of it, so I will help them along rather than bitter.
Now that things are improving and they can see the value in the hard work that went into it, I received a lovely thank you note and a gift of money as they know I'm strapped right now trying to purchase my own place and can probably use a little extra.
Though I certainly did earn that thank you and the money with what I put into the project, I still felt I owed more than just "your welcome." It just seemed cocky and rude to leave it like that.
Why is that???
Here B66 has the opportunity to just say "thanks for the car we (meaning her and their son) really need it" and drive off and yet we still think there's a reason to place more on it. Yes, I realize it's coming from an addict and all the behavior/manipulation that goes with that, but why can't we as long-time enablers/supporters of addicts be able to accept something from them in recovery whether it's moneys owed, support for a child that's needed, babysitting, whatever. Shouldn't it be a lesson for a recovering addict that amends don't get to have provisos on them. Sorry(s) don't get the child to and from the doctor or fill the refrigerator and yet when financial apologies come along, we balk at them as being insufficient, shallow, and manipulative.
Maybe I'm just so budget stressed that I'm seeing a reliable car or some extra money for bills as acceptable anyway it comes. I don't really believe that's true.
I just found it so hard to accept a simple kind gesture of thanks from someone when it was clearly earned. Is it just ingrained in me to be martyr or what??
I think I will keep the gift. I think B should accept that car. No guilt. We earned them.
Alice
I think it is very codie of me to have difficulty accepting gifts. I always feel indebted to the person or feel I owe them a gift in return.
Over the past few weeks I have been going above and beyond for someone who needed help. I could have blown them off easily because I went through the same issue for weeks prior to theirs developing and received no help or even offers of assistance only judgment that I wasn't resolving the problem more efficiently.
So here I am making the adult decision that they didn't really know what I was up against and now they would get to see the true struggle of it, so I will help them along rather than bitter.
Now that things are improving and they can see the value in the hard work that went into it, I received a lovely thank you note and a gift of money as they know I'm strapped right now trying to purchase my own place and can probably use a little extra.
Though I certainly did earn that thank you and the money with what I put into the project, I still felt I owed more than just "your welcome." It just seemed cocky and rude to leave it like that.
Why is that???
Here B66 has the opportunity to just say "thanks for the car we (meaning her and their son) really need it" and drive off and yet we still think there's a reason to place more on it. Yes, I realize it's coming from an addict and all the behavior/manipulation that goes with that, but why can't we as long-time enablers/supporters of addicts be able to accept something from them in recovery whether it's moneys owed, support for a child that's needed, babysitting, whatever. Shouldn't it be a lesson for a recovering addict that amends don't get to have provisos on them. Sorry(s) don't get the child to and from the doctor or fill the refrigerator and yet when financial apologies come along, we balk at them as being insufficient, shallow, and manipulative.
Maybe I'm just so budget stressed that I'm seeing a reliable car or some extra money for bills as acceptable anyway it comes. I don't really believe that's true.
I just found it so hard to accept a simple kind gesture of thanks from someone when it was clearly earned. Is it just ingrained in me to be martyr or what??
I think I will keep the gift. I think B should accept that car. No guilt. We earned them.
Alice
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
I'm with Alice on the car issue. It is hard to accept help - and I posted this just last week - my RAH helping me move and help did he...we are both still sore and stiff from Saturday. But he came through and with a good attitude! I am glad I accepted his help because right now, he can't offer me a whole lot but he can offer the simple things. I don't think its wrong to accept the gestures and gifts, as long as we stand our ground with our boundaries and don't get all wrapped up in hopes and expectations.
And I am also with Anvil on time. It does take time for sustained change. There's nothing wrong with taking your relationship post recovery very slowly. My RAH invited me to a movie last night...I am swamped with the move and such but asked for a rain check for Friday night, so we are going to a movie Friday night. What does it mean? NOTHING - its just a movie! We're not moving back in together, not resuming our marriage pre-recovery, not facing our "issues" and talking about them...we're just hanging out and going to a movie.
I prefer to focus on the one-day-at-a-time concept and apply it to my marriage. Just for today, we are getting along and enjoying each other's company. Just for today, I can set my need for amends or to talk about the past aside. Just for today, I can accept his help, and even ask for it, without attaching a bunch of crazy expectations or assumptions to it.
And I am also with Anvil on time. It does take time for sustained change. There's nothing wrong with taking your relationship post recovery very slowly. My RAH invited me to a movie last night...I am swamped with the move and such but asked for a rain check for Friday night, so we are going to a movie Friday night. What does it mean? NOTHING - its just a movie! We're not moving back in together, not resuming our marriage pre-recovery, not facing our "issues" and talking about them...we're just hanging out and going to a movie.
I prefer to focus on the one-day-at-a-time concept and apply it to my marriage. Just for today, we are getting along and enjoying each other's company. Just for today, I can set my need for amends or to talk about the past aside. Just for today, I can accept his help, and even ask for it, without attaching a bunch of crazy expectations or assumptions to it.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,888
I can accept his help, and even ask for it, without attaching a bunch of crazy expectations or assumptions to it.
I think this is healthy to do. Difficult at times, but a good. What he then does with his own expectations or assumptions over helping, if he ever had any at all, are up to him.
I think this is healthy to do. Difficult at times, but a good. What he then does with his own expectations or assumptions over helping, if he ever had any at all, are up to him.
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