GettingBy

Yup, that's what I'm being told. I've told my AH that I don't want to live with the drinking or any of the other unacceptable behaviors that are going on. He's zeroed in on the drinking. He's getting more and more obsessed with his NEED to drink. It's wierd to me. I can't relate, at all. I know it's a "disease" but I struggle still with accepting that he can't just stop.

He says he doesn't want to get "hammered" but he doesn't want to not drink at all either. He said that would make him feel like a leper. All his friends drink, so if he stops who will he hang out with?

He said, "Going out with friends and having drinks is what I do for fun. If I have to stop drinking, I'm going to have to stop having fun too. So for me, the reality is... being with you means I have to be sober. And being sober is a barrier to fun. You're a barrier to fun."

He pointed out to me that I used to like going out and having drinks with people.... and that I used to think that was fun. I said, "It is fun to go and hang out with friends and laugh! I don't need a drink in my hand to do that."

And he started to bump up against it... he said, "I didn't say I need a drink... okay, nevermind, your twisting my words around on me."

The problem was... I wasn't twisting his words at all. He wanted to blame me, and I wasn't playing along anymore.

He's mad at me because I didn't even ask him to go to marital counseling. I just went straight from mad to divorce. And then in the very next breath he said, "I've been nothing but a project for you since we met. You didn't like my money management skills so you had to fix that. You didn't like my efforts around the house, so you had to fix that. Is there ever going to be an end?"

So I calmly pointed out that we had in fact reached the end... about 6 months ago. I completely stopped talking, and I'm not asking anything of him anymore. He's twisting me wanting this divorce into an attempt to manipulate him into changing. Not my plan, at all. If I really wanted to change him? I would have demanded marital counseling. Where I am now is reality. He is who he is and it doesn't work for me... so we divorce and go our separate ways.

And the truth about me "fixing him"? In the beginning, pre-Al-anon... oh yeah, I tried to change him. I manipulated the hell out of him. I micro-managed him, and mothered and smothered him. Not anymore. What he's talking about with the money pissed me off big time. We worked together to come up with a better finance system. And because of that better way... we had more money, and were able to do lots of awesome things. He just sees it as I changed him, forget that we worked on it together... and it was for the better for both of us. I asked him to tell me the last time I brow beat him over how his spends money... he didn't have an answer. Know why? Because I don't!

And as for the chores around the house... he wasn't helping out. I was balancing two babies, the house, the animals, and an engineering business that was running at full speed. I was flat out and couldn't keep up. I didn't nag or complain or stop my feet. I would simply said, "I'm really busy tonight. Would you be able to cook dinner (or whatever the chore was I needed help with)?" Did he respond well and help out? Absolutely. When left to his own devices, so long as I have expressed my needs in a non-manipulative fashion... he can and does pull his weight. BUT... he would prefer not to do anything at all. And he told me as such. So, he's mad at me because he has to do chores and none of his friends have to.

We were, I thought, working towards a nice, stable, adult life together... the only problem... 1/2 of that equation has an addiction to alcohol. I've worked really hard on my side of the street to be a better communicator. I'm respectful to the differences in men and women. But it's not enough. Alcohol is more powerful than me.

Just thinking out loud... and wanted to share it with people who understand.

Thanks for listening.

Bolina

He sounds like an entitled ass, booze or no booze. Though, without any friends, only drinking buddies.

You're done, right? Do you know why you are discussing all of this with him?

GettingBy

As I re-read this... several things pop out...

He's mad because... being with me means not blowing money recklessly. It means doing chores around the house. It means being responsible and accountable for your actions.

Being with me means he has to be an adult.

Damn, I am the party pooper, aren't I?

(said with tongue planted firmly in cheek)

GettingBy

Thanks Bolina. I am done.

We were having a conversation on one of us moving out because living together was hell for me. He took it as an opportunity to have a hissy-fit. He ranted and tried to engage - I listened and gave detached responses.

He's taking the position that he isn't going to leave the house (no big surprise there). "I'm not the one who wants this mess, so YOU leave." I said, "Fine. I'll go get an apartment or rent a house and rent office space for the business." I need to talk to the lawyer first though to figure out a temporary custody plan and what the hell to do about the bills, mortgage... he's terrible with money, and them not getting paid would also ruin my credit.

Bolina

Well, at least you won't have a big custody battle, although he might make a show of it.

So, he wants you and, I am guessing, the children to leave the house, depriving them of stability because it's all your fault?

Diddums.

Yes, lawyer. I forget, did you find a new one?

Alone22

He should be happy you are leaving him. Now he can live his life without chores, he can spend his money however he wants to, he can drink with his buddies, no one is trying to fix him etc. Got to wonder why he isn't jumping for joy! Oh wait, now HE has to be responsible since you will no longer be there to get that done. I guess you have to ask yourself why you even have these discussion with him at this point. He is not going to see your point and you already know his.

Living with and dealing with an A is like playing a game you can never win. We keep trying to because in the normal world games have rules and anyone can win, but we do not live in a normal place with them.

I'm tired of life being a "game" and an unfair one at that.

Thumper

Aww, that sucks. IME there is no way out of those circular conversations, no matter how detached your response. I *finally* found it better to just not have them. If he complained I'd say "yeah" or "bummer' or "ok" and then immediately find somewhere else I needed to be.

There is especially no point to them if you are pursuing divorce. I think speaking with the lawyer and making a plan that *does not depend upon his agreement* will provide you with a lot of relief and focus.

Speak to your lawyer of course but when I filed for divorce I requested temporary custody and possession of the house, which would have forced him to leave. It is actually the only reason I filed - he refused to leave and I needed him out. He ran off to rehab instead.

We sold the house and split the difference in the end but at least my credit was saved and the kids only had to make one move.

Cyranoak

"Going out with friends and having drinks is what I do for fun. If I have to stop drinking, I'm going to have to stop having fun too. So for me, the reality is... being with you means I have to be sober. And being sober is a barrier to fun. You're a barrier to fun."

I will now, for the first time ever, use the WTF icon. This bull**** statement takes the cake. GB, I'll party with you anytime and guess what? We'll both drink and then stop before we get ****faced! Or we won't. Why? Because we can!

He's the barrier to fun. **** that guy.



P.s. Does anybody else find it ironic that we have the WTF icon?

JACKRUSSELLGIRL

Yes, because you are the barrier to all that fun. You know the fun they have when they can not stand up or talk straight. I think in this case a barrier would be a good thing for him. Oh, us codies are such a killjoy!!

BuffaloGal

I hear you. Oh yes, recovering alcoholics are so boring, my ex said, he didn't want to quit drinking because he would become one of them. As for alcholic logic: I recently recieved a horrible email from my ex about how I had an excessive sense of entitlement. And that I was a liar.

Shortly thereafter I got a letter from his accountant noting that he was claiming head of household because we had agreed that "[our daughter] spent more time with him" during the calendar year. Did we ever agree to any such thing? Not while I was present.




Cyrano-- well, we have the WTF icon but I had to go to a partners of pornography addicts forum to find a vomiting smiley icon.

pixilation

Well, I'll have to give AH that, he doesn't generally go "out" when he drinks(sometimes he does, when his brother is in town, hence the DUI last November) so he doesn't have drinking buddies.

but, he doesn't really see us as his 'barrier', he's so wrapped up in himself right now, that he just does it all anyway, screw us all.

theuncertainty

Snerk, snerk, snort. LMAO thinking of XAH's "fun" Yep. Passing out on the floor or couch or .... and wetting yourself looks like SO MUCH FUN! Why didn't I try it along with XAH?! OMG. Think of the days (and days and days and days) we could have shared. snerk

Hugs, GB. It kind of stings though, when they say it. Ya know? I was called an old lady, an f'ing killjoy.... yada yada yada. It hurt because I was the one who had to keep the household reined in and it wasn't fun - it was either I make sure the bills were paid or we lived in a house without heat, power, phone, etc....

It was a major eye-opener when I realized that I could take care of an apartment on my own and have enough left over to have a little fun for DS and myself if XAH wasn't drinking or whatevering away the money. It wasn't me that wasn't fun, it was the cr-p XAH was pulling that lead to life sucking and my panicked response to it. Since leaving XAH, DS and I have been able to do the things we were never able to do before: camping, biking, hiking, going to the library, fossil hunting, blueberry picking, we have friends over.... That, my friends, is fun.

Ponder

Oh man, I can so relate to being the Party Pooper. I would guess I've been detaching for a while now with AB. I've stopped going along to all his friend's houses. Because it always ends up the same old tired story.. him going out = him getting drunk = me having NO FUN, cause guess who gets to drive his stupid ass home, yep.. me. And even before he gets sloshed, I have no fun, cause I have nothing in common with his friends who have the mentality of teenagers drinking for the first time.. woo hoo, that got old in my twenties. .I'm so over it.

Cyranoak

...please? I must have that icon.

Cyranoak

ItsmeAlice

I was called a party pooper more times than I can count, and had to live with the reality that the only reason we didn't go to parties or left early if we did was because of my XABF's s**tty drunken behavior.

That's right dude, you pooped on the party, but I get the label. Nice.

So many ways to have fun in this life and such a minuscule few involve alcohol.
I, too, was baffled by the addict's "logic."

So you danced around with him a little over his BS. You saw through it. You didn't let it change your mind. You didn't let it derail you, and as hard as he tried, he received no orgasmic excuse from it to go get wasted. So anticlimactic for him, and thereby at least good practice for you.

Sometimes you have to stand there, give noncommital discourse, and watch them quack a blue streak to build up your immunity to it, I think.

The practice I got with my XABF watching him dance around and try to engage me and work his a** off trying to get me worked up has helped me since when dealing with irrational ranting people. Where I would get upset and need to engage, I can take a breath, step back, be noncommital but hold my boundaries, detach, and watch them spiral into their own sweaty puddle as they fiercely quack on. I didn't get that way overnight. I had to work hard it and at least with my EX I had the opportunity for good practice.

That's my lemonade from lemons, I guess

I think talking with the lawyer and just getting yourself out of his way will give you both what you want. You get the freedom to live a happy life and he gets the freedom to destroy his as he sees fit.

Keep working your recovery because it sounds like it's working for you!

Alice

GettingBy

Writing it out and see the responses is so good for me... I actually look back and laugh at it! I know better than to believe anything that he says about me at this point. And it really is funny because I think he (and his drinking buddies!) are the only ones who don't like being around me!!

My ex-fiance paid me the best compliment once... he said, "Shannon's not only funny, but she makes everyone around her feel funny too!" He had the world's biggest heart!

I wonder sometimes if that crap that comes out is a means for him to knock me down to make himself feel better? I don't think too long about it though because trying to makes sense out of the non-sensical is a big fat waste of effort.

I'm with you Cyranoak... WTF? F$%K that guy!

Buffalo66

Quack, Quack, and Quack.

I spent 8 years not drinking in the late 90s. I was in a band. I did it for health, I was a runner back then, did not like hangovers...but I was a known as a fun, and fun loving person then, and I had tons of fun with people who drank or did not.

this is his addiction speaking to you.

He does not want to stop.

You want a divorce, without any ultimatums, which leaves him with no hand to play. Bummer for him.

My RAH did/still does pull that ,"You wanted this, then this, now what? Will it ever end?"

It is a mnipulation to try to make you question your normal desire to have a healthy adult relationship.

He sounds like a kid reasoning with you this way.

GettingBy

P.S. AA.... is for quitters.

GettingBy

Oh, it's totally his loss... and this is all about him! It's partly why he HATES how successful my business is. He's all about sales and marketing. I don't have a marketing plan - and I don't really compete with other engineers. I have all of my clients by referral... 'cuz guess what?!?!? PEOPLE LIKE ME!!!!

Buffalo... I'm a runner too, which is a big reason why I don't drink (maybe a drink or two every couple of weeks). It's just not healthy for me. And ironically, he's overwhemingly threatened by my runner friends because we have a blast together, I come home happy... and he doesn't understand why. Endorphins... lots of endorphins!

Cyranoak

...and people buy from people that are like them. It's not too much more complicated than that. It's not the worst sales/marketing plan in the world at all, and it's pretty damn inexpensive.

It sure as hell pays the bills in the Cyranoak household. Thank God, because other than sales, parallel parking, and writing I don't really have any skills. I'll park the hell of something though~!

Cyranoak