strengthtobeone

Hi everyone, I am working my Al-Anon program pretty hard these days, and I was just wondering if this situation could be considered "detaching with love":

A couple of months ago, my EXAH called my phone a bunch of times one night threatening the life of my then RABF (now RAEXBF). He was really drunk and it really really disturbed and scared me. I knew that he could potentially come to my house because he could walk there. So I called the cops and pressed charges and had him arrested. I considered it detaching (from the alcoholic situation) with LOVE FOR MYSELF. Is this good program? I feel like it is, but just wanted a reality check and some feedback.

I guess I would like to share more, read on if you will!

I now have a restraining order against him and he can't see our two kids. So I have no contact, which is really really awesome for me, but sucky for my kids. I wouldn't let him near them without supervision, and he is using so much right now he apparently can't get a responsible adult to be supervise. He went to jail a month ago for an unrelated incident, and is facing felony charges for that one.

I talked to social services about him not seeing the kids and she seemed to think that it is my responsibility to make sure that my kids have a relationship with their father, which is really really confusing me. I feel really good about the choices I make to keep his insanity out of our lives. I don't think he can have a relationship with his kids until he gets clean and sober and stops going to jail, threatening people's lives, etc...

My question is: Is it really MY responsibility to get the kids to see their dad? His friends are users, he is a user, he is looking at jail time for his 3rd DUI and his threats on my RAEXBF, he is suicidal and has been to the hospital for these issues within the past two months. I REALLY don't think it is my responsibility to supervise visits. I can't be around him, he is SOOOO toxic, I personally am not strong enough to handle his attacks and insanity.

Uhhh, I guess it sounds like I am looking for validation of my viewpoint, but has anyone else been in this type of situation? It breaks my heart that we live in a tiny town, the kids see his house, and he is so f***ed up that he can't get it together for his kids!!!

What a friggin' mess. I don't want any more crazy, just wish he could have a decent relationship with his kids and I wouldn't have to worry that they were picking up oxycontin off his floor while he cries into a bottle...

As far as my kids are concerned, "Victims create more victims, recovery creates more recovery." I am trying to show them there is more to life than abuse and insanity. We are getting better every day!

laurie6781

I M H O,

NO it is not 'your responsibility' for your children to have a relationship with their father at this time.

It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to keep your children safe.

You answered your own question:

It is HIS responsibility to clean up his act so that he can have a relationship with his children. Since he is in the throes of addiction, that obviously is not possible at this time.

Got news for, sometimes the 'all knowing' social workers at Social Services just don't get it.

You are doing what is best for you and your children, that is what mothers do.

Please keep posting and let us know how YOU are doing as we do care so very much.

Love and hugs,

passionfruit

You already know the answer to this. You already made the decision to protect your kids.

Trust yourself.

Pelican

My best friend is a social worker. Her shoulder was the one I cried on when I left my AH. Briefly. She was giving textbook advise to me on my relationship with my husband, however, the textbook theories apply to normal relationships. Not alcoholic relationships!

We discussed the differences between normal relationship issues, and alcoholic relationship issues. She did not have any personal experience or training with alcohol addiction. Therefore, I needed to accept her advice as her opinion.

I found support for my decisions here at SR and in my local Alanon meetings. These people get it!

I also needed to work on my self-love and acceptance. I learned that I can make healthy decisions for myself and my children. I learned that I am a good mom.

You are a good mom!
You are doing an amazing job of protecting yourself and your children from the chaos of addiction. Good on YOU!

I understand. I believe in you.
I support you.

LexieCat

The advice in this thread is golden.

Yes, you are doing the right thing. And the message you give your kids is right-on, as well. Daddy is sick, he can't be around you right now. Daddy loves you, but he can't take care of you or be around you right now because of his sickness.

And having a healthy MOM is more important than ever, in circumstances like this.

Keep on keepin' on!

Buffalo66

HI,

I am not so sure about the Social Workers assertion that you need to facilitate your kids seeing their dad.
Coupla questions:

-Does he want to see them/fight to see them?
-If he does, is it just to get under your skin, or to have contact with you/control?
-HAs he ever been busted by you, or anyone else having put the kids in a questionable situation.?

When my RAH was stil an active drunk, I was always the one who was pushing for him to maintain a relationship with our son.
I think I made some blind bad choices then, as he was almost always drunk or nursing DTs or a hangover.
I would drop son off, then worry while I was at work.
He never WANTED to drive him anywhere.
So, that was a blessing.
NOw that he is sober, I have son in counseling. He is 6.

HIs father, my RAH, is having an issue with panic,he says mostly only when he is around our son. HE has bad judgement...falls asleep, took him to Kmart for 4 hours and fed him nothing but cookies, out of feeling immobilized by panic.

After that, I had a talk with him(RAH)...I realize this is not available for you, but RAH admitted he may not be fit to be around son, unsupervised.

I guess I got a little upset..."Our son needs his father!" "HE needs to know you are there for him..."
Through the counseling, we found that the erratic presence of his father was actually far more damaging than any benefit he might get from seeing him erratically, and when he is only able to be 'half present', let alone, potentially dangerous.

My sons counselor suggested that I just let it be. Do not push for him to see son. Let it be, and dont initiate goodnight calls, or try to make it happen for a visit.

Its been about a month, and my sons behavior and general demeanor have improved dramatically.

I had to let go of my idea that he NEEDS to see his daddy right now.
HE doesnt need to see his daddy while he is all messed up mentally or alcoholically.

We had a zoo outing yesterday.(RAH initiated that, I made very clear plan and boundaries) RAH was OK, son was fine, but I went along. I made sure son knew that it may not be that long of a visit, "that daddy sometimes WANTS to spend time, but he cant, because he is still learning how to be healthy, and that has nothing to do with you."

If he is pushing to see them, and it is not out of a controlling impulse, then I suggest using the social services or local police department to supervise. He can take them to the park, you dont need to be present, easy peasy.

If he is not pushing, then let it be. It is better for them.

BTW, the counselor, who I think is VERY good, expresses to me often how, really, the best thing I can do for my son is be clear without too many adult details, about what is going to happen. Each day, in day to day living, but, especially in any interactions with RAH.

This helps a lot. Very clear, very simple. They deserve to know what to expect, and to know that you will make the best choice.

Incredibly, my 6 year old, who cried and fought and was so angry when his daddy was here, and then leaving, about how he wanted his dad, etc... Does not really ask about him that much anymore.

He seems very content to know that I will make the best choice about when and if he sees his dad.

I am struggling with whether RAH is getting away with shirking parental responsibility, or really suffering, and not getting the help, but, either way, it is definitely proving best to keep it at a minimum for now.

Just my experience, I hope it helps somehow.

strengthtobeone

Thank you everyone for all your answers. Your words are like gold to me. I just wanted to respond real quick and will let you know how things are going I love that no matter where I am, this site will always be in the same place!

THANK YOU!!

Ladybug0130

Yes, thank you, this is a useful post to me as well! Good advice.

marie678

As a Social Worker....

I think you are doing what is best for your kids right now and THAT is your responsibility. He does not sound like he is in any condition to be a parent right now (suicidal, making threats to kill others, getting drunk on a regular basis, driving while drunk, etc). Your responsibility, were he being a responsible, good parent, would be to not keep them from him- NOT to ensure that he has a relationship with him. That is his responsibility. However, considering the way you say he is right now, I think you are doing the right thing in keeping them from him. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes.

Everyone is going to have their opinion and most who do likely don't know the whole story. Trust your instincts and do what you need to do to keep your babies safe.

strengthtobeone

Buffalo, yes I did many of the same things that you did as far as leaving my children with him when I shouldn't have. That is in the past, and now I know better. I, too, took my son to therapy (play therapy) and it was incredibly illuminating and really completely life-changing for our relationship. I am glad things are on the up and up for you, as they are for me. Now that abusive, neglectful daddy isn't around, the roller coaster ride isn't nearly as scary or tumultuous!

So this morning I got a text message from EXAH asking to speak to the kids. I don't want to let him back in to their lives on his terms. My brain and ego says NO FRIGGIN WAY. My spineless part of me says I SHOULD LET HIM SPEAK TO THE KIDS IF HE WANTS TO. I don't know what I should do. I just haven't responded, I need time. I even had a dream about him being in my house last night, and for some reason I didn't make him leave. I went out for a few minutes, and when I came back, my house, my life was trashed. My Higher Power always sends me important signs in my dreams. I think the smart thing to do would be to stay away from him and continue with no contact. But sometimes I don't do the smart thing...

strengthtobeone

BTW, it is my daughter's 4th birthday on Monday, and I am sure he wants to wish her a happy birthday. I just want him to stay away from us until he is reasonably sane. Unfortunately(or fortunately?), I hold no illusions about that happening anytime soon.

Babyblue

I also work with families in crisis. What I know is there is no reason to force a relationship onto your kids.

If seeing their dad would be emotionally damaging then protect them. If he is ready to be in their lives and his presence wouldn't be damaging then the idea is to not hinder that connection or prevent it from happening. That is all.

But only until he is in place where his actions or life wouldn't cause them more harm. You are doing the RIGHT thing. Like others said, trust your instinct.

I work with some young therapists who give the right textbook advice to families. They don't have kids. Not that you have to have kids to work with families but those of us that do know that we know our kids/family better than any social worker or therapist ever could.

strengthtobeone

So I talked it over with my sponsor and this is what we decided would work best.

Instead of reacting, I took time to figure out a response. I texted him and told him he can call at 10am tomorrow to talk to the kids. I also laid out my boundaries: That I expect him to be sober, have a nice short conversation with the kids, and if the conversation was at all inappropriate, I would end it.

So we will see if he bothers to call. He usually doesn't. But either way I am holding true to my self and my boundaries.

Babyblue

That is a really good approach to this. I'm glad you thought this through and came up with a good plan. Having a reaction is normal given what he has put you through. But it is always best to think something through if it affects your kids' lives as well.

Good job mom

Buffalo66

Sounds like a great plan.
This is what my sponsor (her special way of talking) calls a "middle action".

Nothing too extreme, opportunity available, but boundary in place.

japabp2000

The phone call sounds like a very good plan and if he doesn't call..then that is his problem of course. I hope he does call and that he is sober when doing so. (((((Hugs)))))

strengthtobeone

The phone call went well. He called, was coherent, didn't cry the whole time, and had a nice, short conversation with his children. He asked them about their lives, told them he loved them, and told them he is working on getting better so maybe he can see them again. I thought that was the truth and an acceptable way of putting things. I feel okay with that conversation. I told him that maybe they can speak again soon.

He can call when sober to speak to the children.

Maybe he is starting to understand that our marriage really is over (since i filed last January, and it was finalized in August 2010), and there is no amount of manipulation or abuse that will change that. Denial causes so much pain! His disease(s) are controlling his life, and all I can do is continue to take care of myself and our kids in the best way I can. His children will always love him, though, so I always take care to use words that do not make him look like a bad person.

Just yesterday, my son said "Daddy is a good person. Why did the police take him away? I don't like the police".

I told him that I like the police, I think the police help to keep us safe, and it is easy to follow the rules. Daddy IS a good person, but he made a lot of bad choices and that has nothing to do with you or me. When you make bad choices, there are consequences, just like you getting a timeout for hitting your sister or the dog.

Thanks for everyone's support. I know, from experience, that this problem is not going to just "go away"! But, I am also starting to see my recovery working in that I am seeking workable solutions and have a better way of handling things so that I don't turn into a freaky mess when this disease rears its ugly head in my life.